The only way Tooru could’ve been redeemed as a worthwhile villain is if it were revealed that he was Joshu’s barber

The one thing Tooru managed to achieve that no other Jojo villain did was having a stand that was more interesting than he was.

“Having one of the strongest stand in all jojo” “Didn’t know how to use it properly “ Tooru is actually Okuyasu in this universe

Jobin acted like an actual main antagonist more than tooru did in the first place

WoU was so powerful that it broke the forth wall and made calamity affect the panels, causing any backstory, presence, or side plot pertaining him was obliterated.

Bro his stand is more of a villain then him 💀

When I read Jojolion, I just thought that tooru was a wierd villain, and moved on He isnt like Dio or Pucci or Diavolo that was in control of everything ish, and the main crew was mainly focused on defeating him Jojolion was kind of a free for all to obtain the Locacaca, and Tooru was just another guy who wanted it, who just happened to be the last villain with the best stand.

The biggest problem with tooru is that we don’t get enough of him if we had more scenes of Tooru and flashed out his character more he could be one of the most coolest characters in Jojo. I really hope we get a flashback off him in JoJolands

I feel like people aren't seeing the bigger picture with Tooru. If it wasn't for him, we would have never met Poor Tom, which 100% already puts him as a greatest villain in history of fiction.

The sad thing is that Tooru never got the same amount of screentime as other villains. Aside from being underdeveloped because of it but also he never got to grow on us.

"I think if Tooru was a better villain, part 8 would be my favorite" is a take I hadn't considered and now fully agree with

I think tooru was a good villain because of how weirdly unique he was. He was never meant for the spotlight, he was a guy who just did his own thing. Tooru didn’t have a path. He went with the flow. He never was good nor he was bad, he only did whatever it took for his goals to prevail. Tooru was the perfect example on why rock humans were a dangerous threat how easy it is for them to parasite their way into our society. Into our lives. I’d say tooru was a really creepy dude because he literally met his ex girlfriend when she was a kid and then proceeded to date her when she was in high-school all because he wanted to use her. Tooru and gappy are a good contrast. Gappy cares for people by who they are while tooru only cares for the memories that he has of those people. The relationships they both have with their mother contrasts. Tooru has no relationship with his mother and his last memory was what he remembered to be his mother (the wasps) and gappy would die for a mother he didn’t even have a single memory with.

Wonder of U is more memorable than Tooru

I remember finishing part 8 and not even realizing it was the end. Every other part felt so conclusive.

'There was a rock on top of another rock. What that rock witness is only memories. But what about your son, Kato Higashikata? He died without ever realized his dreams." Tooru lacks the presence of main villain, but the way he taunt kaato to attack him is pretty cool and memorable.

It’s because Joshu was the actual villain Edit: We all know it’s Joshu in Jojolands and he’s gearing up to sexually assault Dragona Edit 2: I just read chapter to and HOREE SHIIIIT IT’S ROHAN THAT’S EVEN BETTER THAN JOSHU

The problem with making Jobin the antagonist is that his goals don’t really oppose Josuke, yes Josuke wants the lokakaka for Holly but he wouldn’t just let Tsurugi die. I think Toru is fine as is but maybe introducing the head doctor earlier would’ve added to their presence

Part 8 could really have benefited with several more chapters. Introduce Tooru early on and have him do something useful for Yasuho. Have him pop up once or twice before the big reveal, treated as a minor side character that has fulfilled its role (like others jn Part 4). Then use the additional chapters to flesh out the rock humans relationships and characters. Their goals. Maybe have Yasuho briefly look up Guerilla, find out about the hospital, find the lack of photos of the head doctor peculiar but not noteworthy (and have her have a minor misfortune at that moment). To foreshadow WoU, have a new rock human who tries to double cross Tooru end up meeting a very improbable end while in sight of the gang. Have a chapter entirely from a rock human's perspective, about the Rokakaka fruit and what it meant to them. Have WoU die with Tooru. It would still be imperfect, but it would be better than what ended up happening.

Alot of HUGE issues I see people have with Toru is because they don't realize that Toru and the WoU are NOT SEPRATE BEINGS. WoU does not "have more personality than Toru", EVERYTHING wou says is just Toru talking through his stand, and this is made abundantly clear once Toru drops the act and WoU breaks character and starts talking in third person and referring to itself as "My stand" WoU is Torus excuse to play the character he belived he needed to be in order for society to respect him, it's not a total separate entity that Toru is partners with.

Quick correction, Toru and WOUs abilities were both first seen in Chapter 76 where Toru uses WOU to snipe Poor Tom from inside the Ambulance.

My problem with Toru is that he didn't show up before or even be mentioned despite having history with the characters, just have him be a side character introduced earlier to have it be unexpected so that way it really just comes out of nowhere like it was before so that way it shows how well Tooru blended in, he blended in so well that we didn't even realize or even think he could be a villain since he was on the jojos side. Have him start turning (revealing) evil during the ozone baby arc so that way it's more set up

8:37 I agree with this 110% Jobin was so well developed and was in his way to become one of the most sympathetic main villains in the series, sacrificing the people he loves around him to save his son's life, and his clash against Josuke would've been amazing since Josuke is also attempting to save someone who he so deeply cares for

the thing i like about tooru, is that he feels like a normal enemy, not like the ''main villain''. also, he is more like an antagonist than a villain

I remember that, before Tooru was revealed, some people speculated that part 8 wasn't going to have a main villan at all, and that instead the part was going to end with a huge free for all between all the parties vying for the Rokakaka (Jobin and Kaato, the rock humans, Josuke and friends, etc. Even the idea that Ojiro and his girlfriend might play a role in this was tossed around once he returned, before he immediately died in the following chapter). And honestly, that could've been great. Or at the very least, it would've been a novel setup for the series. Also, on a completely unrelated note, I'm still suprised that Joshu using one of the fruits from the branch of the new rokakaka to heal Yasuho didn't lead to a scene where Josuke was forced to choose between using the remaining fruit to heal Tsurugi or Holly.

It's funny, when he was first introduced I was like "Please Araki, make him the main villian, Jobin is too lame, kill him or something" then by the end of the manga I was like "What, Tooru was actually the main villian? I think Jobin could have been a better main antagonist, this suck"

Bruh, why do people still consider Toru and WOU as different entites? The man is just speaking through his stand

I'll never understand why Araki wasted like 2 chapters focusing on Fumi and Lucy instead of giving a bit more time to focus on the main story that desperately needed it

Tooru had so much potential, but it's all wasted. If there was simply a rock human boss mentioned and tooru showed up earlier or something, it definitely would have felt so much more earned making him the main villain. I usually don't believe in Araki forgot because I'm sure Araki thinks most of his plot points out beforehand, but this is definitely an exception considering this comes so out of left field and almost none of it makes sense. The last 20 chapters of Jojolion feel like it's just held together by duct tape and a piece of gum. I feel like Araki wanted me to be intrigued since we know so little about him, but I don't since we have no information that makes him intriguing. Really hope that the main villain of part 9 ain't like this. Great video. Uhh Join the discord to get your feet licked.

Man, everything about Toru just felt like Araki speedrunning the ending of Part 8. Just shows up out of nowhere and starts nuking people. Doesn't help that everything wraps up way too fucking fast, killing like 3 characters for no fucking reason (seriously, all the other deaths that happen in the past parts felt tasteful and made sense, but here it's just that WoU shows up wherever he wants and starts blasting, killing Jobin and Rai, and then Kei for some reason? Like why her?) And then suddenly Josuke gets his deus ex machina power up for no reason, and then the part is over, like HUH???

you know, i agree with chewie, i am the best villain, and no one can say im not the best villain in jojo

4:29- agreed. His Stand has such intimidation and charisma that Tooru seems lacking in contrast- the latter coming across as a perverted parasite who depended on Yasuho for getting to where he was- which gets much retroactively creepier when you know how potentially old he is.

I think its really funny that Josuke basically resolves the Higashikata situation by complete chance without knowing. The whole part is showing this poweder keg, slowly simmering to an explosive confrontation. But when it actually goes off Josuke is on the other side of town and doesnt even witness it. He defeats WoU like he would any other mook of the week and that happens to resolve the Higashikata curse. The dude probably forgot who Jobin even was at that point, it was totally irrelevant to him

Tooru Stans: The Flooow Maan, The Flow Dragona Stans: The flow of my nuts hitting your forehead.

*in toad's voice * "WAAAAHH, YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET FIRST IN LINE IN THE CALAMITY'S ORDER, WAAAAAHHH"

I’m probably nowhere near the first person to comment this but it is worth noting that a lot of the examples of Kira being set up you’ve highlighted through the video were added in the part 4 anime adaptation. I would not be surprised if Tooru was given a similar treatment

4:17 dude I got more fear from Damo than from tooru 💀

If I might offer some criticism, a mystery whose major twist can be figured out in advance isn't necessarily a bad thing. This is going to be a _very_ unusual (bizarre, if you will) comparison to make to Jojo of all things, but the works of HP Lovecraft are a great example of stories with twists that are arguably downright predictable, yet do a pretty good job at building tension towards their "reveals".

Considering the amount of additional exposition and especially the Radio Gaga anecdote at the end of Jojolion, I wouldn't be surprised if Part 8 is the first part not meant to be an isolated story. It's clear that Araki was thinking about Part 9 before finishing Jojolion (by his own admission), so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more development of Tooru in Jojolands. If that is the case though, it does suck that Part 8, as an isolated narratives, has ended up suffering as a result

I think Tooru being written into Jojolion was like a jigsaw puzzle you started, but you forgot to finish. There was potential, and honestly could have been one of the best villains. The Rock Humans might as well have just been the "main villain" as a whole.

Tooru feels more like a rolling stones villain than a main villain

Man, Jobin was so badass! I'm still salty that his stand wasn't seen much

The reason I love Chewiedog so much is that he could make a video where I disagree with every single point and yet I’m dying of laughter every second of it

All Tooru did was turn Jojolion into a Scot Pilgrim movie

You know a villain is bad when his stand is more recognizable than him

Some things that also bug me about Tooru (or really just the end of the series): -We hear that not everyone understands Jobin’s stand and it is implied it has some crazy secret ability that makes us think main antagonist stand vibes, but his stand’s secret power is really just knock off killer Queen and we hardly see it used to it’s fullest. -I think Tooru actually has some great speeches and moments that the video doesn’t pick up on. Like his anxiety and fear of catastrophe. This partially comes from the Tooru defenders, but I do really like that aspect of his character. He had a great idea stolen from him before, his life is extremely precarious as he is a rock human blending into human society when eventually the doctor and him not aging are going to raise questions and ruin everything he has built. His stand is almost like the reverse of this. The anxiety he feels about his place in the world is manifested into actual catastrophe whenever someone tries to pursue him. The problem is, a lot of this IS just from my personal readings and others. While I think that was the intention behind his character, which is interesting, most of his dialogue and later actions don’t refer to or build on these tensions.

I personally like how Tooru wasn't a presence. Dio, Kars, DIO, Kira, Diavolo, Pucci, Valentine were all a big presence and that's great but with Tooru being a mystery is great in a totally different way, unlike Kira who was a mystery to the characters and not the reader. Tooru is a mystery to literally everyone, makes it feel like it really can be anyone, any character can be this monster

Honestly this is a great video, I would love to see more long form, opinion based videos from you

11:28- a better twist would be if the Stand itself was the mastermind and it attaches to users such as Tooru like a parasite- it would preserve the Tooru twist but made it more unique.

I like how tooru played a less “end of the world villain” and more of a simple yet powerful character who helped develop both joskue and the story

Imagine if Tooru interacted with the rest of the “Rock Human” villains. For example if we got to see Tooru interact with people like Tamaki Damo and Poor Tom in the shadows. That could’ve added more to his sinister villainous side.

The problem with Tooru is if he wan in any other manga he would be a solid villian. I just don't think he stacks up to other villians in jojos. Probably only Kars but everyone else honestly outshines him.

i think the entire point of tooru is that hes just there, like he dgaf he has his own grind he isnt really evil like all the other ones hes just kind of chilling

The only thing I disagree with you on is if Toru was a good main villain it would make this a good part. Jojolion is by far and away the worst jojo part there ever was. Characters that go nowhere Characters with no discernable motives Dropped plot points Dropped mysteries Unsatisfactory answers to mysteries Incoherent plot Plot holes Stupid dialogue I'm convinced Araki either A. Ran out of ideas Or B. Had his intentions with the story guessed in advance and tried to change it unsuccessfully

I feel that JoJolion and Tooru will be much more appreciated when they get adopted into an anime, much like Parts 5 and 6. Other than that, just curious, what’s that song that plays 8 seconds in?

I remember thinking as I read JoJolion that this would be a really interesting plot development if I actually cared about this villain. He had all the makings of what I considered a good villain and then just fell short.

I think tooru is still good

Defense for Tooru: Equivalent Exchange Other villains were SO GOOD that there had to be a terrible one.

You forgot that tooru isn't kira's counterpart, he is diavolo's counterpart

Tooru was technically a looming presence as the unknown head of the rokakaka dealing team. We spent most of the part trying to find who was behind it all. And when Wonder of U did appear it created as much tension as scenes with King Crimson imo. Even before we saw him face to face he was always watching. We saw him kill a kid at tsuru's school, staring outside the higashikata house window. We saw the old man always half out of frame. Just far enough to make it uncomfrotable. He was a force that slowly approached as Gappy found out more about his organization. I do think the fact that he looks and acts like a teen made his true identity less frightening, but he still manipulated Yasuho's life and is an absolute menace for taunting on her with his i-pod

Honestly maybe it's because I'm older and maybe have a different perspective but looking back in hindsight you do see the presence of him there. You just don't realize it until the end that's the problem. But everything that's happening is because of him it's just not said directly. It's implied and subtle and that's why a lot of people think he has no presence. As far as I concerned the 2nd that they mentioned the hospital that's when his presence and the main villain was revealed.... But I did feel vindicated with big mama came out .... And just space truckd him. Mmhmm kaato

Araki should have given Tooru a stalker personality having him introduced earlier then reappearing around Yasuho or the rokakaka sometimes the characters would notice and be like "hey what are you doing here" or sometimes we would notice him in the background. Imagine a panel earlier in the series were Josuke just finished a big fight and for some random reason(idk maybe he wants to ask him a question regarding Holy's health) he wants to pursue the head doctor and yasuho addresses a knife in his leg and Josuke is like "I swear that wasn't there before" and we notice Tooru leaving the scene in the background

Bro why you gotta put my boy Kars next to Enya and the guy that carry’s Dio’s head around for two seconds in part 1 😭😭😭😭😭

Tooru has the most OP stand because he can beat the military

I’ll say tooru was kind of like the piller men, the three of them were practically the main antagonist (the whole rokakaka organization) but Kars was just the final villian. (Tooru)

Favorite main villain design and stand but he’s so fcking boring to me. Damo was better and more interesting

If part 9 is going to be as crazy as i hope it is, toruu will get some exposition and the rokakaka trade expanded on. Jodio gains status in the criminal world as the part progresses similar to p5. This means a run in with the rock humans, josuke, and part 8 lore in general could happen due to their criminal exterprise nature, proximity to Hawaii (its also suggested that part 9 will feature sailing and traveling to islands).

I’d say Tooru is similar to Diavolo in the sense that what he represents extends far beyond his direct actions in the story, and overall, he enhances the story by being who he is.

bro so lame his stand is the playable one in the jojo game😭😭😭

if I ever got to write a JoJo's villian, it'd be a big twist villian, like jobro turned joefoe, but there'd be subtle hints, like maybe they have a stand that can heal any wound, but sometimes they choose not to heal our main character in some situations, or their stand allows them to see everything within a 100meter radius, and they don't warn the mc of a villian 50 or so meters head

When I was first reading Jojolion and started suspecting that Tooru is going to be the main villian, I thought his dynamic is going to be like crazy ex boyfriend of Yashuo who couldn't get over her lol

Joshu solos

jobin was more of a main villain than he was bro tooru was just op

BRO I also wanted Jobin to be the main antagonist dude and not some literal MUSHROOM haired Tooru

what's even funnier, is that in ASBR Tooru is not even his own character, he appears in a cutscene durnig an attack by his stand, which is it's own character

I feel like people just kind of combine wou and tooru together when they consider him cool. The problem is WOU is the one of the coolest stands and tooru is just kind of meh, he’s just not exceptional enough to stand out from the other rock humans. Also the stuffed animals on his arms look stupid.

The one thing that kills me about Tooru that I never seen anyone mention is why did he do all this. Araki goes out of his way to clarify that the Lokakaka isn't illegal at all, if he just wanted money to give Rock Humans more power why didn't he, just like, file a patent for the medicine. And he goes public with it before it's released and names it after the fruit who he also sells to celebrities so I don't buy secrecy as his goal. Even if he thought he could get away with it doing clinical trials on numerous volunteers would be easier than kidnapping one woman to test all the medicine on. Everyone who tries to stop him does so because they want the Lokakaka to heal someone, he wants to make and sell medicine. These goals align with each other. I genuinely do not understand why Tooru went out of his way to be evil and make things harder for himself even withstanding opposition. He murders people over a drug he already wants to go public with that's totally legal and made of a fruit quite literally grows on trees in DAYS. He could accomplish everything exactly the same with a patent and clinical trials which he'd probably need to get anyways to actually be able to sell the medicine.

even being the worst villain, thats still worst of the best villains in all of media

I think the only real reason why people like him is his Stand. His stand literally can destroy if you ever try to acknowledge or approach him. Wonder of u is definitely the perfect counter to something like Love train, or maiden heaven. As strong as those stands are, if they even attempt to approach or acknowledge wonder of u they’ll be in a world of hurt.

yeah i got no idea what araki was doing in the end of Jojolion. i thought he was just tanking the series because he was tired of it like horikoshi, so the fact that there even is a part 9 is surprising me

the idea of having a joestar villan is wild and goes hard af fr

I read jojolion just so I could watch this video

TBT I don't think Tooru is a poorly re-imagined Kira, he's a poorly re-imagined Kars and Rock humans are poorly re-imagined Pillar men. What makes Kars so interesting is that he wanted to free his people from the their weakness to the sun and having to live underground but because they attacked them because the price of his new found abilities was having to consume much, much more lifeforce he wiped them out to just his 3 companions which only made him that more obsessed with his goal because he had to prove himself right to justify his genocidal actions. Ultimately his pursuit of becoming the ultimate being costs him his remaining 3 companions he sacrificed his entire race on the altar of his ambitions but he succeeds only for fate to immediately prove how hollow and meaningless his goal was all along because he does become the Ultimate being but winds up all alone drifting in the void of space with nothing to look forward to but eternity by himself so eventually he the greatest intellect the world had ever know just stops thinking. There's an ironic tragedy there for Kars that just isn't there for Tooru, sure Tooru was trying to advance the cause of his people like Kars but because of the very nature of himself and his people all that was just a means to their individual/mutual ends/interests and no further there was no real greater motivation there but self-interest there was no tragedy or pathos in Tooru's defeat and ultimate failure just further affirmation of why the individualistic nature of rock humans has kept at the margins and in the shadow of humanity as their collective efforts motivated by mere mutual interest failed to overcome the will, and self-sacrificing love and determination of just 1 human family.

damn imagine your Stand is a better villain than you

I just realized that Jodio was diagnosed with *Antisocial* Personality disorder, and his dad is nowhere to be found. Considering that the Joestar is his mom I think that Jodio’s dad could be a rock human. Early as fuck predict but hey not impossible

Diavolo appears properly lateish into the part, but was hinted at throughout and was always felt even if not seen. Tooru just appears right at the end and we’re supposed to expect he’s been masterminding the story? No.

I love how Jobin is so good he converts you into a Tooru Hater

Maybe the anime adaptation could fix Tooru's problem

This man is based He gave credit to Hey Ya

deadass read part 8 and forgot who tooru was when he was revealed as the villain and had to look it up

Even Tooru’s barber is a better Villain bruh, look at how he did that man dirty 😭

In my opinion, Araki should've made Wonder Of U a stand-alone entity, third-party and made Jobin vs Josuke the main conflict. Just erase Tooru.

I just finished Jojolion, and honestly Tooru had soooo much potential. He could have popped up a few times or been hinted on throughout the part instead of just spawning in in like the last 20 chapters. If that happened, he would have felt like the main villain rather than the last villain

Tooru may not be the best villain. But he has a scary ass stand.

Bro I thought jobin was the main villian for the whole thing like where tf was toru

To me I feel like Toru was meant to be a good villain who was just executed poorly. Whats that? You have a guy with an extremely overpowered stand ability that has been stalking the main love intrest for her entire life and is the head of the group who are producing the rocacaca in the hospital... and on top of that this guy, due to his upbringing of overcoming a society of wasps, desires to overcome the very society that he is a minority in now... that sound like a fantastic villain! Oh wait... literally none of that information is told or shown to us, and the little information that is shown is barely even covered and left entirely vague... oh nevermind guess he sucks now... We were on the verge of greatness... we were this close

Wonder of U better than Tooru

i swear i was so ready to see Josuke and Jobin throw hands... just for Toru to come out of nowhere and kill Jacksepticeye

I like to believe Jobin was the main villain while Tooru and his calamity are a concept villain. Like how persona will have a main villain and then it’s followed by a concept that represents the themes of the games.

Honestly I prefer calling Wonder of U the main villain over Tooru.

My gripe with Tooru is that he feels coincidental. For storytelling, this is not a good thing if you're nearing the end (for reference, one of Disney's rules for creating a story is that if it needs a coincidence to get a character out of trouble is not recommended). By having a coincidence as a main villain, while can be done right, it just didn't happen with Tooru because of how late he was introduced. Considering he has one of my favorite New Araki designs as well, it just makes it all the more disappointing.