I miss when blood angels had their own tactical squad. Despite the proportion issue with firstborn the way they’re built was superior. Before we used to be able to swap out entire chest pieces and use weapons from other space marine kits like devastators, now with the new way primaris are made have none of that conversion/flexability

i love the firstborn design in everything so much more, the only thing primaris have is that they are bigger. i really dont like the grav tanks :(

GW killing off the old guard really wronged me, so much so that i instantly quit buying from them

I think the whole Primaris/First Born lore thing is completely bonkers. They should have just replaced the old kits with newer, larger, fresher designs. And it's not too late. They could easily just discontinue all the First Born kits/units, merge their rules with their "Primaris" equivalents or make new equivalents, and then retcon the entire lore.

Box naught still imo the best looking dreadnaught

GW has ditched the "Primaris" word from the range, as it was just a ploy to sell both old and new SM. Now that they no longer produce the firstborn and have gotten rid of most of their stock, it's safe for them to just have SM instead of having that separation. If you look at the 10th edition codex, you'll see that it says "Intercessors" and not "Primaris Intercessors", having removed it from all units and keywords.

Size wasn't that much of an issue as proportions. I personally like post 2014 characters, they look decent.

Im glad i still have a lot of the firstborn models and vehicles still to build and paint.

Just remember, unless you are a serious tournement player, none of this matters. I just bought some old tactical squad off ebay and 5th edition rulebook and guess what nothing is stopping me from playing it. Nothing.

It’s a shame GW’s retired the DA Company Vets/Fallen kit.

I have 2nd edition and 3rd edition marines, to me some of coolest models GW made

A Heroes sized Mk7 kit would sell I think.

I hope they make a new firstborn MK VII kit. The space marine heroes were absolutely gorgeous, honestly my favorite standard marine models. I’m sad the new heroes are primaris, literally look the same as normal kits. The firstborn heroes are good scale compared to primaris imo, just slightly shorter, while being noticeable larger than (most) regular human models.

As someone who got in part way through 8th, I find the primaris design philosophy is incredibly hit or miss. The improvements just seem to be implementing parts of the Firstborn design philosophy while their bigger misses seem to be their attempts at implementating aspects original to Primaris.

I'm pissed about the possibility of losing my FB deathwatch

I have played Chaos for 20 years. I refuse to replace most of my models. Also, you sound remarkably like Gavin Free.

I think the best way forward is to ditch all the first born kits and give intercessors the same load out options as tactical squads - e.g. special weapon, heavy weapon. Updated landraider kit (or assault ramp repulsor variant), replacement whirlwind or thunderfire cannon and a new flyer, marines will be sorted then 😁

Great vid! Good use of the visuals. As a FB enjoyer, I will say the direction is headed in the right direction for Primaris....the smooth bubble power pack is still a problem for me but that seems to be a me thing lol.... There are things I like about both the FB kits and the Primaris kits. What I don't like, is the narrative feel of the Primaris, on the whole, they seem storm trooperish and I think their unit specialization works hard against the idea of scarcity and small chapter size. In a GW article leading up to 10th they mention how the FB 'Care for each greave as a relic' and the Primaris treat their war gear in a much more utilitarian fashion.....I just really hated that. I feel they continue to work against the vibe of 40k....of course I can head canon that but still I think that informs how the design team feels about it. Oh well, change happens, and the direction is improving, so hopefully it continues :)

The scale increase was a good move, but I still don't like or use "Primaris" I like the older armour models better, they have character, will probably just end up using Horus Heresy models as proxy's if I ever need to expand my army once the last Firstborn kits is retired. As for a new sized tactical or devastator squad I don't think it will happen, Space Marines are the poster boy starter faction, having a variety of weapon options will probably be thought of as to confusing for new players, hence the more fixed loadouts of the Primaris releases.

30k's success means that even if they die off in 40k, there will always be first born options

Rhinos and Predators will go to Legends just like the Land Speeder has.

I've just ended up placing my old chaos/tactical marines directly onto a 32mm base, and the height is close enough to Primaris. What will be confusing is if they retire the first born tanks, considering chaos still use them.

Get a 3d printer and you can find all sorts of good firstborn kits that match the new 30k plastics. If i ever started a space marine army id have a whole army of firstborn with "counts as" units for any primaris squads i would need.

I like Primaris assembly and body proportions more, but I can’t help but love and want more Firstborn.

they could just release an upgrade sprue for intercessors to make them into tactical load outs / devastator load outs .. just do a weapons sprue upgrade / helmet to allow a special weapon / heavy weapon into a 10man inty squad and you can replace the tacs ./.. 6 heavy weapons in a kit then can make a dev squad out of primaris as well ..

The silly thing is that I think they could have done a full range “scale-up” and made money without messing the community around with the Primaris thing. People are always starting new armies, I think they are/were scared that the OG people in the community would just stop buying their models

Just update the MKVII kits and move them to the HH range. Win win. Even the Baal Predator is now 'available' in 30k.

Everyone's lore is theirs to enjoy on their own, and your dudes are your dudes. If you want to run Firstborn go for it, there isn't a lot of support going forward, but the horus heresy models might provide some solid alternatives. Helmet swaps are also a good option, you can run whichever tacticus models in the current supported squads and run mark 7 helmets. Cool video, thanks for sharing.

Just saw this video and I enjoyed it. I do love Primaris Marines, but I also do love the 30k Firstborn marines. I did find the original 40k sculpts a bit "derpy" but 30k is firstborn marines done very well. A small "nitpick" if you don't mind lol When you showed the images of firstborn still in 40k, you showed a pic of Grimaldus of the Black Templars. He actually is Primaris now, alongside Helbrect and The Emperor's Champion. All 3 of them are all Primaris now. Back when GW announced the new versions of the models, they said in that announcement page, that all 3 have crossed the Rubicon Primaris. They kept the old helmets but they are canonically Primaris now.

There's a few interesting factors at play, and great video, enjoyed it a lot. 1) Size of models. Nearly everyone is happier the recent models are bigger. Having Space Marines the same size as human guard doesn't fit the lore, or look impressive on the table. The thing GW needs to keep an eye on is not making everything always bigger, as otherwise we're gonna be playing on tennis courts in 10 years time. 2) Primaris design vs Firstborn marine design. Very subjective, but most 40k fans I think prefer the newer sculpts which are being more faithful to the established and loved space marine aesthetic and mix of armour marks, chapter heraldry and so on is what makes space marines interesting. 3) Lore. The introduction of Primaris, their in-universe impact and their new technology are the antithesis of a stagnating and dying Imperium of Man. A necessary change to drive product line expansion, but it is at odds with the whole point of 40k (in my opinion). A clumsy way of going about changing the space marine product range, but i think the return to space marine DNA in recent years is only a good thing. Kind of explains why Horus Heresy has also been able to be so popular. 4) Logistics. So much of GW's product range is space marines, to the point it can't keep up with itself, but also other factions lose out on updates and getting to a level of parity with space marine players. On the flip side, there's only so many space marines one person needs before you get oversaturated with the same models.

Just commenting my thoughts on if they release the MKVII armour, - With the Horus heresy rolling in the old armour marks, I would imagine they’d save the iconic space marine mark until last (MkVii) - The MkVii (Aquila) came out towards the end of the Horus heresy as the scientists on Mars developing it fled to Terra, - It would be a fitting end to the Horus heresy edition to release them, - Would think they’d create the models for them following the same pattern as armour mark is compatible with the upgrade weapons and shares the same posing, Those are my hopes at least,

I cant wait for Grey Knights refresh. I proxy my horus heresy as a 40k army. Happy they keep the tactical squad in the datasheet, ust need to change the bases. We lost the assault squad with jumpacks in 10th taugh.

I think the way they did the sternguard could work for other units, like devastators and tacticals. The primaris never really bothered me other than the cost of replacing all my firstborn, but now that I have loads of them and that cost is behind me, I guess I'm more accepting, :)

Yeah, I saw the games workshop website have the rhino was in stock on Friday

The BS with the Primaris is why I quit playing back in early 8th ed. Finding someone to buy my 5Kish points of firstborn Blood Angels is going to be a pain.

They just made Truescale marines. But they wanted to make sure that you bought in and didn't just use their old smaller models.

FIRSTBORN FOR LIFE BROTHERS

I finished my firstborn army of 20+ years a few years ago. Dont play only collect, but honestly i would probably go into collecting primaris or even another faction, but from what i have seen everything is very monopose, and prices are just crazy now.

I am building my first SM army in 10th edition, and i wanted to only use the old forstborne models i have lying around from other boxes. And it struck me how hard it was to build a functional 1000 pts infantery army. The firstborne captain or luitenant is pretty much the only hero choice you have, and then i filled the rest with vanguard veterans, tyrannic war veterans, devestator squads and scouts

Primaris was the biggest reddit moment in all of 40k

My Blood Angels collection includes models from 1st and 2nd edition. What a difference in scale! I have several squads of the old metal Terminators. These look tiny compared to the current Primaris Marines. Of course I have replaced them with the plastics. I finished painting them about 6 months before the new 10th edition Terminators came out. Sigh. I won't be upsizing my terminators again. One minor observation. The 32mm bases in current use are taller than the 25mm bases Space Marines were sold with previously. The height difference is a little exaggerated as a result.

Is the BA tactical squad much bigger than the standard tactical squad?

Is there a source of info that states which wave or year each 40K model was released.

i wouldn't mind seeing returned firstborn in a new scale. we'll have to wait and see I guess. i'd definitely grab some new firstborn kits fsho.

I had this concern with how they treated Slaaneshi Chaos Space Marines as well, where they are attempting to demote and downplay the existence event though there is the history of Emperors Children turn to Chaos in books and such, just feels like they give She Who Thirsts the curtain pull whenever the popularity rises more, in exchange for something "family friendly" like a wannabe dark mechanicus daemonhead

The Grey Knights rejected the primaris?

Chaos marines are firstborn too.

Overall i like the primaris model range. There are some im not a fan of like inceptors and the impulsor but that was true of the firstborns. Main thing i dont like is the lore change. They could have just rescaled and called all the new models a step forward in technology and a new codex issued by guilliman explaining the more specialised nature

I play Deathwatch, and I am a fan of both Firstborn and Primaris kits. Both are like cakes, I get to eat well everywhere!

Is there any reason to buy first born, I play BA

Does anyone think they will remake the mk7 armour like they did for hourus Heresy mk 3 & 6 ..?

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

i am confused. why is every word its own sentence?

I think overall primaris are prettier, tho I do love grungy aesthetic of squat marines and I think it was a big miss not to implement this aspects of design to primaris, considering how big of a deal relics of the old time is in 40k. Maybe giving primaria more and more customization options is a good thing to return a flavour of old marines yet making them look actually good for someone not familiar with 40k in the first place. You don't see these weird screwed up proportiona of sm models in old art so you shouldn't see it in models

And.. even... today

Ill never stop replacing my primaris helmets with firstborn helmets.

If it is not broke, don't fix it. Upscaling should not happened in the first place .

I wouldn't be surprised if GW phases out Firstborn altogether and replaces them all with Primaris.

I don’t like the new range at all but I only collect and play 30k

My theory is that GW wanted to do a complete scale change but given the backlash of Warhammer going to AoS and people not being able to play with their current models to a degree, they chose to gradually phases the OG models out and added Primaris to cannon as a way of explaining why the two different scales were in the same army

Beside the fact that Primaris Marines were probably made to cover some Black Library "New lore"," bigger and better Space Marines. I really don't see why they just didn't say, Ok,10,000 year later New Armour types Equiment, Etc. and just upscale the New Models. I mean when you thinnk about it. Just what are they planning for the first born? Is the lore going to be well, just like the Thunder Warriors, The First Born have to be done way with? I really don't get it. It's like, well,. we did it once so,. let's do it again kinda thing. I find that, Well,. Kinda stupid. If you go that route then in 10 years there's going to be a 3rd generation Space Marine with a Anti coruption Gene and they're going to be even bigger and better. Face it the whole thing is really, WG is just a greedy company that keeps trying to find new ways/ reasons for people to spend more money on their products. When in fact, they can't even flech out the newer Core rule books and codices with out erratas even before they bring the next one out. The latest being goiing from 9th ed. to 10th.

original and best.

I've had a foot in WH since about 2006 but never got into the hobby mostly the books, games and that. The DA announcements in December is what got me to cave xD I loved the look of all the new scales and designs, I never had the nostalgia of the old stuff and they weren't my cuppa tea. But it's probably a common theme for new players

GW being GW had a good thing and soiled it to try and make money. GW stated they are not replacing first born when Primaris first came out (you can still find the quote in the Warhammer Community site I believe), obviously that was a lie. The removal of the BA tacticals and other firstborn kits made it obvious they are getting phased out. Personally I don't give a toss about modern GW or Primaris, they have become a terrible company over the years and I think Primaris lore is an extremely shallow excuse to try and increase sales. This crap about Firstborns can't ride in Primaris tanks etc was a total shitshow, the better way was slow upscales like with the chaos space marines slowly getting larger and more new units, almost nobody complains about that. The Orks and Eldar that just got new, larger scale kits as well saw little complaints although the Ork boys were a bit of a fail as they are now mono-pose and when you have a "horde army" that's monopose it doesn't look as good, also the unit loadout options don't quite work. Firstborn kits are easier to build, look great, and STILL have more chapter unique kits (Sapcewolves longfangs, BA Death Company, Sanguinary Guard to name a few) and are now cheap on ebay, it's a win-win for me. The reason primaris get the MK7 helmets is because they are a better design and even GW has to admit they are more iconic then the primaris ones. GW is purely a profit-seeking entity and they are shameless about it, they recently released the older, smaller firstborns in the Macragge boxset re-release at a higher price then the original and with less components, this "collectors kit" is largely useless in the modern game but they knew it would make money, they act like ebay scalpers with their own products.

I prefer the Firstborn aesthetic and size. I find the Primaris too big. I wasn’t concerned about “True Scale”, GW could have just changed the lore or just made the few Guard minis they had smaller. I’m thankful for the Horus Heresy range at the moment and eBay.

Brrrrrr

6:28 I disagree with the design getting better. Scale 100% but design. it's just picking bits from the fitst born range, then just discarding the rest. Like all the variations in helmets and armour is gone to the point. it's all just harmoginised and same looking outside of charaters and revamped first born kits like the sternguard. Like all the flavour and extra customisation is gone from the kits. 14:04 that's because they are chapter specific. It's good that they are improving but that doesn't excuse how mid the overall range has been. I collect primaris, but it isn't that fun when most of the flavour of the model comes from the gun its holding if it isn't designed to be something special

The new mk6 and 3s are perfect scale compared to primaris lore wise I think. Just wish primaris was never a thing, it was just a new armour mark and the were the height of the new 6s and 3s... then we would have all the weak bs lore about cawl and guillimans plan blah blah blah.

First

My army 4 squads of bikes, two command biker squads, 6 land speeders , 13 attack bikes, 2 khans, 2stormseers, 1 chaplain, 1 tech marine all on bikes. 20 sniper scouts. Started building them at the end of 7th ed. Finished at the end of 9th. And then 10th codex marines invalidated my army. I don't like how primaris look like. The new speeders are tank sized and look stupid , the quad is horrible , the outriders and outrider champ are meh in general and comparing to classic white scar bikers they are just bland . The heros , aside for the chaplain, don't exist . The sniper scouts are gone too. I would say, l am one of those people who spend a ton of time and money on their army and now are unhappy , because the army is gone. Also the whole , so just play HH, doesn't work . hh players are like historical players they dont want to see any mk7 etc armour, the w40k armies don't really translate in to HH either. A pure bike army of WS in HH doesn't use regular bikes. It uses jetbikes and FW landspeeders

Primaris better? lol

First Born = Peak Space Marines

I do not play Primaris and I do not like them (neither the dumb as shit lore, nor the designs that look as if some pubescents have designed them to compensate something). I do not play in tournaments, so I will take firstborn models to the field and use the rules of Primaris units for them which are similar. Luckily I am in the position to have enough money to afford even overpriced oop figures. So GW can do whatever they want, I do not care very much! I am in the hobby since 1990 and always went with the figures and rule sets I liked the most and I do not intend to do otherwise in the future. Just my 2 cents!

I hope new Primaris update Horus Heresy infantry unit types.

It's not really right to say that the "Primaris design philosophy looks good now", because it's really just a quick rehash of what the firstborn already brought to the table save for proportions. Gravis looks ugly, anti-grav tanks are still stupid, the jorts of the phobos armour are hideous, and the new guns, like the desolation squad launchers.... yeah. Primaris brought no in-lore "cool stuff" to the space marines to appreciate. But I enjoy your vids and takes!

More detail doesn't make something good. It wasn't that they were lacking detail, it was that the generic space soldier design language of all varieties of Primaris and their vehicles etc is absolute gutter trash.

I bet if you propped them up on some cork or something like that and painted them well 90% of people wouldn’t notice or care if you used firstborn. I recently lost a bunch of models due to edition change. My big mek either kustom force field and grot tanks z. LEGENDS. All my friends expensive dark vengeance autogun cultists, NO LONGER LEGAL lol

I was not happy about the change in scale. Neither were my friends. You keep saying most people were happy but I think it was mostly four year olds who were happy about the duplofication of 40k.

Almost like white people lol

primaris bolters look soo ugly . they are comically large and cover the entire upper half of the marine . the hekmet design is and weird kneeguards are goofy as hell

I liked the first born, but they look laughably unproportional compared to the primaris. If both would have been released at the same time I doubt people would have picked firstborn. It is just nostalgia for many people that they might prefer the old ones. At least that is my humble opinion. Having their financial/time investment getting devalued by GW is of course very unfortunate. But the firstborn looked like old school toys that probably would have a harder and harder time to attract new customers.

Bin them all they are clapped and shit. They should have gone at the start of 8th with the refresh. Drip taking them away just annoys both sides and pleases no one. They should have ripped the bandade off in one go. I dont want to see any of these units in 11th. Its thankfully looking like there wont be any upscaled midget marine or new intercessor kit with tactical loadout. They have clearly gone in another direction with dedicated units for every roll. A tactical intersessor squad now would be weird.