Lmar daggerwolf How would they know what apostates were blood mages and which were just the ones who were refusing to be taught somewhere that would teach them legal magic? I also find it kind of funny that you complained about people generalising mages yet called templars "Lyrium addict, warmongering" Picture what it would be like if 1 in 10 people wandered around with a minigun and maybe the reason for the templars will make more sense

Lmar daggerwolf there is fault on both sides, let's look at cullen, before the events of origins, he was a pretty alright guy, then the whole crisis at the ferelden circle went down and he was like "kill them all!" but as time went on he mellowed out, learning that not all mages are bad and not all templars are good, he was the one who tried to apprehend meredith for what she was doing, although he did wait to long in my opinion, and let's look at samson aswell, when we meet him in DA2, yes he is a lyrium addict, but what else is he? he's the guy smuggling mages out of kirkwall, I mean it turns out he's accidentally sending them off to be enslaved, but chances are he didn't know that, alot of characters in the DA storyline are in fact quite good, like wynne, morrigan, allistair and cullen, and then you have some very evil characters on both sides, like that guy that kills hawke' mother, corphyrus, meredith and ser otto... I think it was ser otto, or which ever one who ser thrask holds off while you're dealing with blood mages and doing their job

Lmar daggerwolf (Remember to click "Read more (x lines)" ) If I understood your post correctly, I think you misunderstood that I said many blood mages felt that path was their only hope *because of* templars/Chantry beliefs like Meredith.I *did not* say some *were* "inherently evil" *but rather* that many aren't--please re-read my long post ^^. As for the "saving the boy with blood magic option," I did try my best to emphasis that from a narrative/role playing perspective (as in role playings true meaning found in table top rpgs like Eclipse Phase or that version of DA, along with acting in general) it was really the only option. If you watch the entirety of Veriax's video--which I linked in that long post--you'll see him trying to think as his character would and *not* himself. *His character* thus reasoned that the long travel to the tower would have doomed Redcliffe. In the narrative, this is still a medieval like setting with exceedingly slow travel times when compared to first world countries of today. Additionally, his character highly doubted that even Jowan could have lasted against a demon powerful enough to command dozens or hundreds of lesser demons (e.g. who possessed all of those bodies). I hope that helps understanding my argument. ^_^

I personally think that while Anders blowing up the Chantry and killing the grand cleric did indeed start the mage templar war, Knight Commander Meredith was equally responsible by declaring genocide on all mages for the crime of a single apostate. The Lyrium idol as well for turning her mad.

Ashe | Lady Insanity my question on blood magic? Since veil is open is there a higher chance that blood magic will have feel of Prototype-like style of undead monsters? that enemy creates or u could make out of blood? Also at solider's keep: the new tapped tainted blood that warden drunk could the old god baby be like old god which is anti-darkspwn-ish? like if the old god were to make baby in extremely far future heirs would it be possible to have Dovahkin like race from all races because old god baby wanted all sentimental being too only existing for extermination of darkspawn to replace the gray warden's ritual which is hard for those who drink to survive to linage thing?

I got no doubt that mages will come across so hate, the trailer showed the veal tearing, no matter the reason, a mage will have something to do with that.

jakisz Don't forget that only a mage or spirit (more likely a group of mages/"benevolent" spirits) should be able to mend it. Remember Justice giving a magical boon to seal the "tears in the veils" in Dragon Age: Awakening? This reasoning is among the many drives that will push my spy-mistress blood mage elf Inquisitor in siding with her fellow magi, desiring to lead them to her new magocracy, and then--under her leadership--combine their arcane power/lore in sealing every veil they can. Of course, this is how the woman I'll be acting in DAIII *wants* things to end up. It will be very fun to see what actually results from this and her resulting 'the ends justify the means' mentality. ^^

jakisz Remember what John Conor said, that guy's able to burn the whole world to ashes for the mage's plight. Thing is that mages do what they did because they are forced to, blood magic seems to be the only means to effectively counter templars who resist most magics cast on them. Even some of the mages that are in artworks using blood magic have a look of despair on their faces or are cornered by templars.

MessagerOfHell That guy can hear you loud and clear,yes I'd set the world on fire if it spared the life of innocent people.I wouldn't burn cities as you stated to root out blood magic that is where you and I are different.Ahhahaha Templars and your hypocritical creed we seek to guide you,we want order,we want peace yeah right.What you desire is power,enslavement,to rule over man as you see fit and everyone that doesn't bows to your yoke becomes a liability."Yells":I should feel sorry for wanting the Chantry overthrown,I should have mercy for Tevinter after they burned Arlathan to the ground...I should show mercy to the "Shemlen"rats for treating both mages and elves like dogs.Also I wish to point out the Qunari and Tevinter for they will suffer the most for their insolence and their slavery over the Elvhen kind.I am no saint but my ideals are worth fighting for could you say the same Templar.This isn't just about mages,it's about freeing people from shackles of tyrants.If I am evil for wanting to liberate the world from fools who think they know best and how I should live my life then so be it....Shove their plight,none of this shit would be necessary if they allowed us to slay Anders blame E.A. get off my back.If not for weaklings like him or the useless Templars who haven't been doing their jobs because they were busy taking over Kirkwall.I am a true sorcerer one that should be feared,respect and admired in every way for I am one in a thousand.I assure you that my harrowing would be a success,for I do not crumble before a demon because I say know your place slave. PS:Who are you to judge me,is this my fucking fault haven't it occurred you that the Chantry's to blame in the first place!.All the suffering you see is because of them,that is what you get for treating people like dogs.Those who have no magic in their vain's are but insects and yet we allow insects to rule over us.Aye that means you are meaningless and of no interest to me or any other sorcerer who is truly strong both in will and power.I do not seek to rule over anyone,I just wish to be left in peace like so many other mages.

John Conner I didn't mean to paint you as something horrible. I used your renegade nature to set a point and an example for what some will do and to what extent they will go to achieve their goals. Order and balance must exist. No one should be crushed into dust without a chance at redemption and to be subjected to fair judgement. If their crimes are too great, their deaths will be inevitable; if their situation forced them, then let them have a chance at atonement. Zealots and madmen stained the image of what mages and templars are; they are the ones that will be uprooted and punished. I won't, and I can't, carve my path through people that could be innocent or did what they did because of fear.

They are treated like people. Mages like Wynne and Irving are extremely respected, and they would have been free to leave the circle every now and then to go about business because they are trusted. Destroying the Chantry... Seriously? Why? You do realize the Chantry is a huge charity, taking in orphans and healing/helping the sick and the poor. Don't be an Anders. And restricting the Rite of Tranquility? Are you saying mages like Jowan and Uldred should have no reason to fear? Jowan as soon as he escaped poisoned Arl Eamon and taught Connor terrible lessons, leading to him accepting a demon's help. Uldred massacred an entire circle and many Templars. Mages are bad. Unlike regular people, a single bad mage can cause far more devastation than normal person, FAR more easily. Some need to be put down.

The Chantry is an evil organisation that has caused the deaths of countless people, mostly elves, in its pursuit of absolute power. And do you think Greagoir would even bat an eyelid if the Divine ordered him to kill Irving or Wynne? 'I would lay down my own life, or the life of any mage, to protect Fereldan'. And mages aren't treated like people. People aren't locked up in prisons to be raped and abused by Templar thugs just because they MIGHT be a threat. And Jowan thought he was working for the crown. He didn't know Loghain was bad. Would you have criticised him if Cailan, Maric or Alistair had given the assassination order? For Jowan it was the same thing. And Uldred was actually a good man who wanted freedom for the mages but his revolution turned into a demon infestation after he accidentally got possessed. And didn't you hear Karl in DA2? Being Tranquil is worse than death.

Charles Hughes I love discussion. Thanks for replying. In pursuit of absolute power? The Chantry seeks to spread the Chant of Light to the four corners of the world, they believe then the Maker will return to them and end the blights and create heaven on earth. You're truly misunderstanding their goals. The Chantry is a charity and a religion; they rarely use force, only when they declare an exalted march is there violence. Greagoir would bat an eyelash if he was ordered to Annul the circle; He respects Wynne and Irving and was obviously upset thinking about what was happening to them in the Tower. But he would have no choice. And why would Justinia order him to kill Wynne and Irving? She seeks to help the mages, the Chant does not say "Kill every mage!". As for Jowan; He is an inexperienced mage who turned to Blood Magic to escape. In the process, he poisoned an Arl and killed nearly all of Redcliffe. Don't try to defend him. He was a threat to himself and others; Even if he didn't want to be, I would kill him if I could. That would save so many lives from being killed, and raised as undead warriors. Remember? Being Tranquil isn't worse than death. Atleast, it isn't while you're tranquil. Karl was the first to wake up; He remembered everything he lost, and it made him feel terrible. Once his tranquility returned, he lost those feelings and became calm. As for the rape of mages; that was one Templar. One bad Templar even Bethany was afraid of; Like I said, there are bad people on both sides. But a bad mage does far more evil than a bad Templar (Compare Ser Alrik's rape and killing of a few mages to Jowans/Connors mass murder of Redcliffe, or Merrill's murder of her clan.) Edit: Bethany wrote home telling Hawke the Kirkwall circle wasn't as bad as she thought it would be; the Templars weren't friendly, but they weren't cruel either. Only Ser Alrik scared her.

I don't think blood magic is inherently evil. No school of magic, no matter its origins, is evil. Only the people who use it are. It's just a particularly powerful school of magic and that's where the fear comes from. If blood magic had never been used for evil and only used to help the Circle of Magi then blood mages would be treated just like any other mage. If entropy magic had a reputation for being used by serial killers entropy mages would be killed on the spot. And the Divine ordered Greagoir to kill Wynne and Irving was an example, I know she wouldn't really have a reason to do that. But if she, say for a test of loyalty, ordered Greagoir to do it then he would. And Jowan didn't raise the dead, Connor did after he was possessed. Jowan's teaching didn't result in him being possessed, in fact it was probably what allowed him to temporarily take control of his body again and flee back up to his bedroom. And Tranquility is essentially turned a person into a blank, submissive slave. No one would want to be made Tranquil and almost no-one deserves to spend the rest of their lives like that. The only people I can think of that deserve Tranquility are monsters such as Huon and Quentin and they were never made Tranquil, only mages that the Templars didn't view as adequate enough to pass the Harrowing. And if you're going to point out that Huon and Quentin were blood mages then they weren't evil because they were blood mages. They were blood mages because they were evil. They turned to a powerful school so they could do more evil, the school itself didn't make them evil. To use the words of Thane Krios, 'if one man shoots another dead, do you blame the gun?' (or words to that effect).

+Charlie Hughes you are correct in what you stated. the chantry and templar order also hate blood magic because it's a source of power that is not pulled from the fade; and because of that templars and those who have similar gifts are unable to nullify a mages magic.

LOL any quest involving demons? The vast majority of the quests involved demons.

ras144 Glad you see it that way too.

So, you want to make a country for mages only? I can only imagine how powerful that army would be, they'd take anything if they wanted to. Tevinter Magisters would flock to that new country, wherever it would be. If not mage only, then just like Tevinter the mages would feel superior. And they are, obviously. But that would lead to Tevinter yet again, where mages have all the power and non-magic people are there to serve and obey. And imagine if there was an outbreak, Ferelden Circle x 100. A whole country, fallen to abominations. That would be horrible. No, mages need to be controlled and when given power they never fail to abuse it. Templars need to be everywhere to control demons. Not every mage is evil, but every mage is susceptible to demonic possession so they must be guarded.

CreativeUsernameEh When I said a country for mages, I meant that we would take an established country like Ferelden, and test my theories there. Mages would deffinitely not "rise-up" without the family connections or the power already instilled that the Tevinters had, there would be no "Houses" for mages. The only way they could be in politics would be on an individual strive for it. And "when given power they never fail to abuse" is such an antiquated idea, that can only be conjured up from the common people that have little to no interaction to mages. When playing through both games, and reading the books, you have personally met and befriended (or hated) 4 mages. Not including yourself or anyone in the towers. Out of those 4 people, the only one to "abuse" his power was Anders, but take that situation as you will. Personally I thought it was a monstrous way to tell people what they needed to hear, and since it's basically the Middle Ages, drastic measures are plenty.

Joshua Weber There are already "houses" for mages; the Fraternities. Those would become far more powerful if they were granted autonomy. Taking Ferelden (Do you mean all of Ferelden, or just a portion of it like just the tower or the Hinterlands like the Dalish may have gotten?) would pose another problem; many common people fear and distrust magic. Having a new country of mages crop up right next to them would create many issues among the common folk. If people can't handle the Dalish, imagine how difficult mages would be. I was a bit cynical with that Velanna quote, there are some mages who are good. Quite a few in fact, but a mage who decides to abuse his power turns to Blood Magic, and mages who do not use Blood Magic could not stop him. Inexperienced Jowan used Blood Magic to overpower several Templars, Irving and the Mage PC. And there will inevitably be a bad egg in the Mage-Country who will do so. Which is why Templars must be there. There must always be some way to stop evil mages, and the only thing that can contend with evil mages (without resorting to Blood Magic themselves) are Templars.

CreativeUsernameEh There wouldn't be a new country, it would just be Ferelden with the mages being independant. There would still be a circle to teach young mages or to house those that want to live there, there would be the royalty and the common folk, and like I said before a Templar / Mage orginization to keep unruly mages in check. The real difference is that mages are more autonomous than before. And when it comes to the fraternities, they only hold power becuase mages are sequestered in the tower, so they have to bind themselves to these "houses" for their voices to be heard. Without that inprisonment, mages would be free to follow their own path in life, and while some mage orginizations will pop up, if they ever become violent then the Order (mage/templar order) will stop them. And you do have a good point. The common people would be extremely untrustful, even more so the nobility. But this cycle of distrust and blood magic will not stop until Thedas decides a new approach to mages, and my theories are the best bet for peace for everyone. Unless you want to murder mages when they are first discovered, cause that is the other option.

I think I understand. This is similar to the boon you can ask of Alistair if you have a mage Origin, the Circle Tower is granted autonomy. Except its larger; So, mages are allowed complete freedom (as much as any commoner) throughout Ferelden? That's not so bad, its like a giant circle. Like Tevinter. Once again though, there is that issue of bad eggs. Allowing mages to be everywhere in Ferelden allows mages to escape into other countries. When they're all kept in one place they are easy to control atleast. Phylacteries would need to be a thing for sure to prevent escapes from Ferelden. Templar power would need to increase drastically though. They'd need outposts in every town so they could quickly respond to threats wherever they might be, since the mages are spread out. Without enough fear of punishment or fear of a greater power, Ferelden would inevitably turn into Tevinter 2.0. Basically, even though your plan is idealistic and would undoubtedly improve mage life and (if everything goes well) improve mage/non mage relations, its likely the people would never risk it, the cost of creating such a huge Templar army is too much, mages escaping (even for a little while) would make other countries angry, and the Chantry might declare an Exalted March to restore things.

I hope Dragon Age Inquisition will give us the option to form such a system. : )

kankerkaas I agree - that places where mages can learn their craft should exist and so should people to police the mages who abuse their power which should be a mixture of mages and non-mages but the current system of imprisoning mages is wrong. Also playing a circle mage in DA:O made me opposed to the Harrowing on principal - the only way to get through was to make deals with spirits and demons that the heck does that teach mages.

The following is my own dream scenario of the future of mages in Thedas. Be warned, this is *a lot* of text. ^_^ I'd like to see the Circles become their own independent meritocracy city--er, tower--states with freedom of individual thought/religion--meaning no Chantry or Qun oversight/oppression. Like the Han dynasty, mages in these pocket societies would have positions based on their magical power/skill, wisdom, knowledge, and etc. as gauged by testing and examinations by their already merited teachers. The leaders would then be judged by their actions and wisdom with a check-and-balanced council as the apex. Along with the councils built in checks and balance, two other organizations would fill this role. One would be the academic bureaucracy from which both the meritocracy is based and facilitates foreign relations (read: trade and preventing conflict). The third would be the last defense against the Fade and internal corruption/crime: a Templar like police force consisting of mages and magically (lyrium/enchantments) enhanced non-mages. These circles would--save for the Chantry control/limitations/oppressions now removed--retain many of their old cultures and diversities while being politically seperated from non-mage nations. Ideally, they'd form a similar relation to non-mage nations like the Spacing Guild of the Dune Series or the Adeptus Mechanicus of Warhammer 40K; being a smaller empire within an empire, under the latters rule yet truly autonomous in their pursuits/interal government. For example, in exchange for being given protection from persecution and acces to lyrium and other resources the Magi Circles will offer aid against the Fade, arresting of criminal mages, assistance in wars as arcane mercinaries, and numerous services litterally not possible without magic. Another interesting idea is some of these mages adopting a Zen Buddhist like mindset and temporarily making themselves Tranquil so they can create intricately complex Arcane Punk (the magic version of steam punk) devices, go into inhumanly deep sessions of philosophy, preform otherwise impossible feats of mathematics, and etc. before having a spirit healer return then to normal. Another fun twist could be learning how to use blood magic with chickens and other food sources instead of people for longevity and enhancements.

The Warden Commander shouldn't have to justify his actions to some Chantry fool.The lad\lass sacrificed plenty already and if that doesn't satisfies them then they can burn in the beyond as far as I care..Besides if he is with Morrigan then there is a pretty good chance that she has a ward to protect him from the Chantry.The older the sorcerer is the wiser and the stronger he becomes,so you could pretty much get the idea how powerful Flemeth's grimore is don't you.Centuries of knowledge,rituals and tips in becoming greater in what you do,to become a true mage takes decades even centuries to master everything.Being a warrior or a rogue hahahaha any fool can carry a blade but it takes true mastery and skill to master magics full potential.I have no illusions about magic it is dangerous,potent,strong,it can end battles in hours but for all it's might it carries a hard burden.Witch burden you'll ask me jakisz???.Well it is both a curse and a gift in the same time for those who master it there are rewards to reap.

John Conner Is it alright to say, I have no idea what you are talking about here?

jakisz You mentioned the Warden Commander and the Templars for they have no right to hunt him/her no matter the fact that they have his phylactery.Because he is a Gray Warden and I doubt the Chantry would dare to go against him.The second thing I mention magic,the witch of the wilds and The Warden if he is a mage.My point is I doubt the Chantry would be so foolish to attack him an Archmage like him anyway this brings me to the wards.I also mentioned Flemeth's grimore,it is possible that if he is with Morrigan that he asked her for a favor!.I doubt he'd want to be tracked by the Chantry,so this brings us to the reason why they can't find him in the first place.Wards are protective spells that can shield someone or something that includes a spell that could block the tracking of someone.Of course Flemeth's grimore is old and powerful so honestly I'd be surprised if he didn't use a ward to shield himself.I'd do the same thing if I were him no more tracing you Chantry fools :D.Consider it as witness protection hehhehehhe,if they could locate him I think they would have done so by now.But something is blocking it and that my lad is a ward as for Hawke they never had his phylactery hahahahhhaha.The Champion just needs to stay of the radar witch won't be that hard for him considering his abilities and all.Welcome to magic 101 :D does this covers it all or do you have another question for me hm?.. PS:Oh but of course it's all right to ask also it is all right to be confused it happens right :D!.It appears I am so charming that I render people speechless my oh my,Jack was that a compliment...Well aren't you adorable thanks Jack I guess that would be all anyway don't be a stranger.

John Conner alright, thank you, that makes a lot more sense. Am just saying at the end DA2 they said the Warden is gone just like Hawke. It made sense as to why they want to look for Hawke because he/she started this rebellion and they hope that he/she could help clam the other side to listen. However, why would the Seekers need the Warden as well. It has to be important and as far as I can tell the Seekers are still with the Chantry. There has to be more too this. And if it is so important to bring him/her into it, why can't they find him/her. Am just looking at it big picture wise.

Hopefully Anders--assuming the transferred save file has him still being alive--will slowly become the DA version of Vladimir linen. That would be an *interesting* turn of events. : D

Ummm.... I can glue a knife to my hand. It still won't shoot out fire and lightning and raise the dead and summon demons into the world and mind control people. Just saying. The only problem is though, when a mage does go bad they can't be dealt with easily. The games don't properly show how powerful mages and abominations really are. It takes several Templars to deal with one mage, and a whole battalion to deal with one abomination (Did you read DA: Asunder?) So if a mage were to be homeschooled and he/she happened to mess up and let a demon in, it would take days for the word to reach a capitol, for the Chantry to send Templars, for the Templars to arrive, and then fight the threat. In the meantime, the whole village will be tortured and destroyed. That's why Templars are always surrounding mages.

Maybe it is all about POWER (money, political influence, etc.). The Chantry (legitimacy and PR) established a system in which the Templar Order (force) provides deplorable conditions for mages in Circles of Magi (also A BRANCH OF THE CHANTRY). As a result, mages escape, rebel, and occasionally harass the population. Indoctrinated by the Chantry, people see mages as evil, and the Chantry and Templars as the last line of defense. This means donations, respect and so on. Cause and effect are turned upside down.

That dosn't make it right. Yes ,mages are a dangerous force, but so are the templars. The term eye for a eye dosn't always apply. If you punch me and I get pissed it dosn't make it right for me to punch you back.

About the latter, then you are a very kind person. I'd call it a self-defense. As for the former, it's politics, which means you do what it takes to get what you want, and if someone's get hurt in the process... It's my opinion, anyway.

I can respect self defense, butt not when more harm comes than good. Plus the templar and mage war is nothing more thane a religous war. And your right it is your opinon, and I respect that.

Lmar daggerwolf Lol that is the $10 question mate, for a while now, after playing and reading Dragon Age, i think Flemeth herself is just another piece of something else.... What we know is: She is OLD, she sent Morrigan with the Warden to sire the Child, she had another "daughter" Yavara in Antiva, she is deeply connected with the Dalish AND the Eluvian, as she warned Merrill to tread carefully, she has one form....(dragon) that we know of, she has been uncannily present in extremely important events (Warden, Hawke) and also in DA:Origins, Morrigan states "she is not a blood mage, abomination, not even truly human", Morrigan specifically states that "Mother's magic keeps the darkspawn at bay"..... which so far as i know is incredibly difficult to do, so that's the question mate, wth is Flemeth....

Lmar daggerwolf Lol yea OH shit! lol i forgot there's Sandal!! He has mentioned a "creepy old lady" who talks and laughs when he sleeps! Sandal also gave a cryptic "prophecy" to Hawke in DA2 which resembles greatly the Inquisitor, and he is a enchanter savant/master.... for a dwarf..... what IS Sandal? lol

Flemeth is Razikale untouched by the taint,my only concern if Morrigan sticks to what she claimed in Origins.Fight my mother not me,I am against her I love you aha and yet she manipulates you.Honestly as much I love that women and her snappy personality,if she betrayed me well lets just say I don't like treason. Warden Commander:Ir'abelas ma'lath but you must die for this stab,stab,stab.. Morrigan:Why khjj have you done this "heavy breathing"?. Warden Commander:I loved you and I trusted you,why did you betray me in this manner?. Morrigan:"Chuckles" Tis my nature my love aah khh love hurts doesn't it?. Warden Commander:Indeed love is a weakness and I was a fool for trusting you in the first place "casts a healing spell upon Morrigan". Warden Commander:Goodbye my love for I am unable to take your life but rest assure you will not see me again. Morrigan:I I do not think I understand,what do you mean by that?. Warden Commander:I am off to the blighted Deep Roads,the deeper the better maybe I die there that would certainly bring me a peace off my own. Morrigan:Wait up you fool what do you mean you can't be serious!. Morrigan:"Chuckles" must you be so dramatic my Warden?. Warden Commander:Stop following me or this time I won't heal you (Intimidate). Morrigan's thoughts:My face turned grim,my smile wore of and for the first time I felt sorrow for the one person that truly loved me was now gone. That is if that involves the god baby cameo,some dramatic scene such as this should be most welcome in the game.If the Warden found out she used him and betrayed him that is for this must not be and yet it could be.Basically I think this would be necessary to see as the Inquisitor you witness the love spat.Then you go fetch the Warden and tell him life is a bitch and that he is bad ass etc.etc...Anything to remove him from his depressive,suicidal state of mind for he could be a most useful ally.

lol WHAT?

Her being Razikale though.... interesting thought. There is still two Old Gods left to be turned to Archdemons right? Yea, the one the Warden killed was the fifth. Nice theory man, liked it

I agree about the danger, however, a balance between total freedom and utter oppression is both the most rational and safest option. In short, take away the ideologies and beliefs of the Chantry (and ones like it), install a new policing system like the one described in my comment shown on this video, and finally heavily employ a checks & balances system on both political and magical power. On a similar note, why hasn't the Tevinter Imperium suffered this fate? Besides the first Blight, they've managed to avoid their entire nation being overrun by abominations. My initial thought was that this was so because of a combination between their ruling themselves and very well researched potent magical protections. I look forward to the dialogue of Dorian potentially clarifying this. ^^

Elround4 Most likely because mages only turn into abominations when they're desperate: In Tevinter where they have power and respect, there is no need to get a demons help to escape the Circle. Instead they just slaughter their elven servants and dance in their blood.

Mages treated like black people.

Impossible. You're asking for a utopia xD Tevinter was not built on slavery and evil; it was built on Might. They believe their magic is a gift that makes them superior to non-mages; Magic is might. And so, they enslave others with their superior power. If you want to build something with Justice.... Well, that can't work. Justice entered the physical world, and look what that caused. Destruction of the Chantry in Kirkwall. Open war. Anders. 100% good simply can't exist in the real world, everything must be grey. Even if every mage must be watched, even good ones like Wynne and Bethany, then it is worth it if they can keep evil mages under control. Its not perfect, but its the best they can do.

A new magocracy with a checks & balances system similar to the United States would still be appealing. Mages in other settings have made similar socialites and/or organizations, such as the Mages Guild in the Elderscrolls universe, the Seers in David Eddings works, the democratic magocracy in the Harry Potter series, and etc.

Yea, it was said that Fenris master, Danarius, had to leave him behind for some reason, and Fenris found a home with Qunari like warriors, he became a official warrior of the Qun, but never a true Qunari.

Oh true, I forgot about that. Thank you :)

***** no problem

I believe you can be quanari mage but I don't know to what extent it changes the personal or main storylines.

Yes we can be a male or female Qunari Tal'Vashoth mage and not the bound Saarebas version since we will not be following the Qun, we will see how other people and Qunari react to us in DAI.

That would be really interesting, however...we get to choose the gender and one of all the games races (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari) for him. I for one am going to play a female blood mage elf spy-mistress inquisitor. ^^ Then again, we have no idea how powerful Morrigan might have become.

Elround4 Yea i know, i thought about that, gender doesnt matter, the Child can be a woman, it would be even more interesting i believe; but yea, if its how im thinking then like at the end, whatever happened that u have to do, boom! the big surprise, the Inquisitor changes form/shape, like if u picked qunari, then changes to a human, due to a powerful spell by Morrigan to disguise him and his intentions, it would be a nice twist lol

Michael G It would also really piss off the people who didn't play human. Plus the child's been confirmed as male and in a lot of playthroughs doesn't exist which would make it difficult to play as him

Main problem with this theory is that Bioware have stated that if you do not do the Dark Ritual with Morrigian there would be no God child.

Trialwolf They did state that? oh dammit, i heard that the Child would "more than a passing reference". But shit it would be a hell of a twist.. Wait, didnt Morrigan become pregnant nonetheless if you DIDNT do the ritual, she became pregnant if you slept with her before? i think Witch Hunt implied that...

Don't know yet, and it would likely depend on if you decided to kill or spare him, since Gaider already confirmed a dead Anders is a dead anders and no corpse possession by Justice. Also if he has a role in the mage vs templar war, gets affected by the veil tear, had a role in the exhalted march expansion pack that was scrapped and reintroduced to DAI along with an unreleased third dlc, and is a part of the significant returning cast, but we'll have to wait and see.

Well if you were in that position, would you rather get possessed or die?

I would rather be captured or die (: If you're possessed you're no longer you anyways and that's about the same as dying (: not sure how it works but I'm guessing they either take you over by killing you or by keeping your mind trapped in some way (which is far worse). Besides, what if I hurt someone I cared about?

k01dsv I'd rather die then be captured or possessed would be fighting them templars to my last breath.

John Conner Yes of course, fighting would be optimal, but most mages just seem like the only option is possession

***** Yeah... self preservation... you might want to rethink what you wrote mate -.-

That's true, I should have been more clear. I apologize. While they aren't immune to possession, a demon has no good reason to possess a mage in that position. A demon would sooner possess a tree than a Tranquil.

XD

I think the argument on the other side is that (like the 'synthetic' stuff for Mass Effect) magic can be under a certain amount of reasonable control, but at some point, a mage will strive for much more power and there won't be anything to stop them. Neither ME or DA present this argument well. The 'Order' side is always shown to be too oppressive to be seen at at all reasonable unless we put ourselves into a full on 'roleplay'.

Totally agree buts that probably always going to a be a problem as they can't go into too much detail in one game, otherwise that game would be freaking huge and cost a lot of money to create. If developers could balance it in a way where it shows the pro's AND cons for each side then we might be able to have a better idea about their points of view. However because for each DA game they have continually showed only the mage point of view it colours the players idea of the world. We don't know how the chantry TRULY feel about the mages, all we have is guess work and conjecture. Where with mages we KNOW they feel oppressed and ostracised from society, and that turning to blood magic and demons is the only option. A way that they could have made it easier to understand the other side would have been to make two games where you start on the two different sides. One game where you play as a Templar, or you meet a lot of them and work with them, and the other where you play as a mage, or work with them. And the 3rd game would be someone outside both that has to make the big defining choice for all. Then we might have a better idea on each others side before making a choice.

***** It doesn't require much. Just more efficient writing.

No, it isn't a bad thing that you sided with the Templars, I see the importance of the Templars, but I can't agree with there methods or there actions.