I dont even care this just got spoiled just happy it happens

How dare you!

it is blasphemy, but I get it. Parts of the books can be sloggish. I would argue the Rand chapters are NEEDED, that's about it.

It takes a very special kind of person to see the flaws in something they love, I think you did it justice. I think I love you more because you aren’t blinded by bias. Well said Daniel, thorough and concise

I actually hope that they don't write the Aiel to be too invincible as Jordan seems to describe them, at least 5 books in. I think Herbert had that problem with the Sardukar in the Dune series.

That's it. That's the entire book series.

@@Fantozz2 He nailed it

This comment is seriously underrated.

I came here to write something like this. I finished the series but it was a struggle mostly because of stuff like this and i'm bugged Daniel didn't mention it. To me the book series was so drowned in this crap that i couldn't see the forest from the trees. I finished WoT about 3 years ago and to me it was a decent series but not a favorite because i couldn't enjoy the more complex aspects or worldbuilding and character development because of all the junk. Watching some of Daniel's videos about why WoT is great opened my eyes, but because of my personal reading experience, I wouldn't read it again because of this writing style.

So accurate.

Keep up the good work. Really enjoying your content :)

@@manandhar8064 Thank you! It has been a fun ride so far and the fandom has helped make it that way.

Seriously enjoying watching your reviews! I'm on my 3rd reread now because of the show.

@@christinemusson9101 Thank you so much. I'm so pleased I can help folks relive that first run through the series. I'm quite sad I'm on the last Jordan book now.

@@mikesbookreviews oh to read A Memory of Light for the first time again! Enjoy every word!

*skips elayne chapters*

I was gonna say "...But what about Audiobook listeners?

@@BL4RG4N we fall asleep and miss anything anyway! LOL

*skips Nynaeve chapters*

Honestly, I've started listening to the audio books at 1.45 speed. It takes a while to work up to that until it feels normal, but it makes the entire series flow very well. Even the "slog" feels much more natural.

He said while tugging at his braid....;)

Maybe it'll get cut off at some point ;)

I'll box my own ears in!

I feel for her actress. Haha

What's the over/ under on number of braid pulls we see in season 1?

@Matthew Crossed his arms beneath his breast.

I just think with the hairs on my chest

*tugs braid*

@Wil E lol I was just thinking that this morning after I posted. How ironic.

And yet they are exactly the same.

LOL I don't know why, but this comment killed me!

Pretty much more only major complaint with the series. So much description that could've instead been plot progression.

Indeed. Different genre but the level of description with environmental details that are irrelevant rivals that of Agatha Christie. And that's saying something ...

Hot tip, if this annoys you, do not read Lord of the Rings. Tolkein has to be one of the most detailed decriptive writers in the genre. That's how Jackson was able to reproduce exactly what we all saw in our mind.

@@coronary00 Sure but that’s a single book, not 14 books of repetitive descriptions.

Right?! That fight at the end of book 2, that’s like, top 5 moments in the whole series for me.

Exactly! Love the swordplay description in WOT

It´s all fun and games until someone lays out that "Badger on slippery mushroom" move...

‘Moon rises over the lake as the apple blossoms on the breeze as the boar charges down the mountain and the heron wades through rushes and then the cat kicks sand’ is probably the most succinctly apt description of swordplay… ever.

I've been spoiled by Stormlight Archive, I was consistently bored of battles/fights and this was a part of it.

Yeah, this is the key. Same with the point about repetition. When these books were coming out 1 every couple years, the slog was real, and the repetition was a necessary recap.

@@leave-trace I came here to say exactly that. I can forgive a book series that may have some repetition/recap if much of it was written before social media and Book tube were even around.

Agree! That was my experience and I think reading a completed series or taking a break for long enough for the series to end would have made a world of difference. Having to wait YEARS with so little to chew on other than people moping around in their home was a turn off.

@@leave-trace For the repetition, I have to challenge you a bit. Because even within a single book he will repeat a lot, like explanations of the magic system.

@JustDev WHAT. Season two of 'The Wire' was absolute gold.

I did laugh out loud.

Alex D To be fair the pistol did originally shoot bullets, but due to a odd enchantment of a hag it was only capable of shooting bullet frogs, so all the wizard did was transmute all the lead into tiny bullet frogs.

its like Mr Burns bee-shooting dogs

It doesn't get mentioned enough but it's true. At least twice in the series a female character comments on 'house-breacking' a male character. Like a dog.

This is my issue as well. He wrote it so that many of the female characters are arrogant, hypocritical, and refuse to believe any new information that they did not discover themselves, and it made it frustrating to read through their sections. I'm currently on book 12, and Rand has similar issues with his character, but there are so many big events surrounding him that it's easier to look past. Many of the chapters centering on the female characters seem to have far more politicking than huge events, and that makes it far more aggravating when the character you're following is spending a bunch of time thinking about how foolish other people are, and how they know best, while making stupid mistakes. Elayne, Nyneave, and Egwene all get into trouble at points because they believe that they're smarter, and their strength with the one power means they don't have to be cautious or have anyone to watch their backs. Even with Cadsuane, I like most of her character, but hate that she believes everyone else's manners to be of utmost importance while behaving with few manners herself.

OMG yes. This was the probably the biggest reason I couldn’t finish the series past halfway through book 4. Besides Moraine and a few others, almost every woman in WOT was a obnoxious, snippy jerkass. Say what you will about Wizard’s First Rule, but at least Kahlan Amnell was an actually sensible and reasonable woman. WOT could have used more female characters like her.

Here's looking at you, Faile Bashere t'Aybara.

And that's how the male character come off for female readers, nine times out of ten. An essentially perfect balance.

But at the same time the way Egwene and Elaine planned the "breakup" to manipulate him and make him go to Elaine and how easily he just switched to some one else in that scene. It made my blood boil. Like let the feelings develop..let him get over the other relation first. does Robert Jordan know what a non abusif relationship is ?

Yea, some of the relationships have some major issues. Most are like quirks. But Rand/Elayne is one where it gets weird. Flip, Rand's harem is just weird and makes me want to burn him.

I’m also on book 5 now and I have a bigger problem with Rand/Min (for the same reason - they’ve interacted even less than Rand and Elayne) and Rand/Aviendha (for a different reason). They make no sense to me.

To be fair, a LOT of real life romances ARE like that. They don't tend to last, because the foundations are so weak, but I have personally witnessed more of that type of romance/relationship than ones based on more "meaningful and solid" foundations.

The worst romance of all is Egwene and Galad. I just do not understand an intelligent and capable woman like Egwene falling so hard for... Galad lol.

So true!

Don't forget noses! Jordan loves pointing out how bird like everyone's noses are!

i can't count the number of times i was listening to the audiobook in my car with my windows down and stopped at a light JUST at the part where they're describing a woman's bosom for two paragraphs LMAO

The books are for adults. Act like an adult and get over it.

So, it balances out for both of them.

Honestly, I felt Elayne and Avidena would have made a better couple. They had better chemistry with each other than they ever did with rand.

@@theNuclearMagician That is what I predict the show will do, keep Min with Rand since she is far more influential to Rand than the other two, and make Aviendha and Elayne a couple.

No thanks I dont want sister incest in the show

I guess you don't remember your first childhood infatuation......

Well he's Ta'veren and remember "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills"

what a lovely point :)

Very touching. I'm happy you got to share that experience with her. For me, I just tried to paint his pictures and accept the characters for who they were. I love the series and I'm so glad it was finished. EPIC

What a wonderful point from a wise and lovely woman. That story of your grandmother made my day. Your own wisdom, of sharing this, and the warm soul you have now is a testament of your love for ypur grandmother. Thank you

😭

🖤

Yes, and the reveal of who he actually was BLEW MY MIND!

I love the way Michael Kramer says Bors lol

To be fair to the man who called himself Bors, he only called himself Bors in that place.

im gonna be honest i dont remember that at all and i JUST finished the series two days ago

@@runningcommentary2125 Until one of the black sisters calls him that...

I just started playing pandemic and I cant stop laughing every time the news scroll proclaims him as the greatest author.

@@lill1418, while I did enjoy the Sword of Truth series when it was coming out, once I finished the last book, I felt complete on it and have had zero desire to go back and read it again. It's not that I found the ending bad, in fact it fit in quite well with the entire series, it was just that I felt that it had completed that journey with no need for a reread. Now pardon me as I choose whether to complete my 3rd read through of Safehold, my 4th (or is it 5th?) read through of Honor Harrington or my 8th read through of the Belgariad.

Lill I think you mean Terry Pratchett.

@@Charistoph Amen, I felt the same way. Loved Zedd who was a little mawkish, but a great character.

@@gingerginger999, I will admit, Zeddicus Z'ul Zorander is a character I would have no problem reading more of, or again. It was just Richard enduring pain after pain and pulling the answers almost from nowhere which made it less endearing.

The problem I had with this video is he spends more time contradicting the bad points, which he said he wasn't going to do, than actually covering the bad points. I've recently discovered this channel and most of the content is great but I think I'm going to avoid any more of his Wheel of Time videos as he's a bit too in love with the series to turn a proper critical eye on it.

For no reason at all ! From the first book!before they have reasons to avoid each other.

Yup.. ya meet a creepyly beautiful random lady wearing all white and just never tell anyone about her... Cuz wHo wOuLd cArE?

THISSSS!!!!!

I find it funny how the girls and rand both hid a forsaken to interrogate whilst hiding them from the others

@@Ebrahim_17 She probably used light compulsion.

I thought that was a way of walking, not a sword form. Unless that’s what you were talking about, then carry on.

@@fredtrunce5931 yeah I think so too and even then it's the best :)

@@fredtrunce5931 More like a ready stance than an attack form, but definitely not just a way to walk around.

Honestly i'm not sure what her problem was with that, I found it hilarious. Especially when she was in the travelling circus with Birgitte, was dying of laughter

@@hihosh1 I wasnt impressed with the circus scenes. the first time thru I thought that they were out of place.. in subsequent read throughs I hated the circus scenes.. after reading through this last time , im only slightly annoyed with the circus.. funny how opinions can change as we age

The trouble with the repetition is that all 15 books are out now. A year or two between books, some repetition is good. Yes, he does go overboard, not saying that... but, for those that read quickly, who cares, we can scan for new information and continue on. I do agree on the conflict of interest point. perhaps some things would have been better polished if a different editor had looked at it... but then again, perhaps Jordan would have stopped writing if someone pushed him in a direction he wasn't willing to go... too hard to say. I'm very glad for the series. It got me reading and passing english classes in school. And those repetitive areas taught me how to "skim" read (which I hate that term, as its not accurate); read really quickly but still retain/pickup new information.

@@marcusone1 I never re-read without a time-out to read something else. Generally something not even under the umbrella of speculative fiction.

I've had a similar thought. I have a minor headcannon where I picture our boi RJ talking to wifey. RJ: "Hey, I had an idea for the next book! You know how much everyone *loved* the circus?" HM: "...Yes, of course dear." RJ: (excitedly) "I thought that it might be fun to go *back* there!! Give the audience what they want!!" HM: "................I'm sure they'll love it, dear"

Yeah there is a distinct lack of camaraderie from the main characters. The relationships seem socially stunted at times. Another issue is that the majority of the main protagonists are irrationally stubborn. For me personally, I found that many of the characters I was presumably supposed to be rooting for, were very hard to like.

Agreed. I’m on Fires of Heaven and I like it a lot, but I’m really sad with how badly Mat treats Rand. Especially since in both book one and two Rand stuck by Mat so loyally and looked out for him. In the Great Hunt Mat was Rand’s main concern and he was willing to risk his life for him. When I’m in Mat’s point of view though...the complete lack of absolutely any kind of concern for Rand is disconcerting. He literally doesn’t even seem to care that his childhood friend is doomed to go insane. Even if he is scared of Aes Sedai, I expected at least a little grief from him, that he is going to lose his friend. I’m also quite tired of hearing he just wants to get away from Rand, and him blaming Rand for everything even though he’s also Taveren. It gets very repetitive. Also, the bickering between Nynaeve and Elayne was very trying. The interactions between these characters makes me go “are you guys even friends?” Lol. Which is a little disappointing since fictional friendships are some of my favorite things to read.

@@nvwest I see where you´re getting at, to me they felt more like siblings than friends but considering how they grew up together, it kinda made sense to me and considering they overall just avoid talking about personal topics that are in essence taboo, I'd say they are pretty close and trust each other, it's just the huge changes in their lives that eventually make them not seem friends at all

@@janhavi1977 Elaine And nynaeve werent friends ať the begining. They became friends throughout the série when they travel together And when they have to get used to different power structure

This, 100%. Middle to later in the series it seems like none of the main characters are ever on the same page, like it's literally impossible for them to understand each other. So frustrating!

The worst for me is when similar named characters are in the same area since I'm listening to the audiobooks. Perrin = Verin Mishima = Masema

They dont even sound the same How do elayne and aviendha are alike?Egwene and elayne are alike because they start by E?You should have used better name for your argument

Black Ajah hunt with Seine or Siene, wtf was that about... also no one has same name as another? Seriously you have a world where no one named an heir or used anothers name but one person and that was because they were actually the historical figure they pretended to be!

@@derickkaz6096 elayne and egwene rhyme. It says so in the glossary

@@jordanb220 Damani Domani yea i agree 100%

Well don't tug your braid over it

"HER TARABONNER ACCENT WAS ESPECIALLY STRONG AS SHE SAID THIS"

I found that the audiobooks made the slog always go away so that was an added bonus.

I love it on rereads. I can zone out a bit and not miss as much :)

'Tugs braid'

Ah, seems like you were raised in a healthy enviorment. In my experience this is exactly how a lot of people I was raised around are. Like to the point of stabbing.

and I would have to say, "Boom, now they're in love," is actually a pretty common occurrence in the real world as well.

@@erickalfaro8389 my biggest annoyance is nynaeve being angry and rude for no reason shes acting like a karen whose glorified.but i am on ch 7 of the first book does she get better in later books?

@@winxclubflora8446 yeah, honestly they all mature and grow up. It worth to push past the slow books. I promise.

And that's on book like 8-10 imo. The rest are amazing.

I disagree with that because he largely wrote that book in 2004 and released it in 2005. He wasn't even diagnosed he had cancer until 2006 to which he died from in 2007

@@Existomalus he had cardiac amyloidosis, he suffered with it for years. He knew he was dying.

yes he is

Book 5 and yes

yeah mat becomes so awesome by the middle of the series... and brandon butchered him so brutally, that was definitely the biggest weakness of the Brandon ones was how bad he butchered and didn't do justice to Mat.. if there had to be a character that Brandon just couldn't figure out, I wish it would have been basically ANYONE other than Mat (or Rand)

Enai De A Lukal I like Brandon’s matt, idk why I just did. Anyways Jordan’s matt was better

I'm at book 3 and I'm so looking forward to that

Exactly, it's really annoying.

Yeah, that's the attitude of all the female characters, but especially Nynaeve more than anyone. She seems utterly incapable of finishing a sentence without generalizing men. I don't hate her as much as some, but I certainly don't love her as much as some either. I actually found her quite amusing and entertaining for a bit. But I'm on book 5 and her temper and constant insulting of men is starting to get a bit old. It was funny at first but now I'm finding the humor to be a bit stale, and it's super irritating.

Yeah this part of the book really takes away from the distinction of some female characters. I am guessing the aes sedai as a majority are supposed to be viewed as arrogant. (On lord of chaos rn). Im listening to the audio book and the majority of female sort of just sound the same character with a different name. Or they just sound angry like nynaeve.

I feel like it may be tough to have so many characters and make them all unique. But it seems that there are only a few personality types swathed across a lot of characters

@@BasilNUmeh Also it's spot on.....

Its a bizarre paradox but both are kinda right. Unimportant stuff that is kinda self-evident or you could get from context? He repeats that information endlessly. But like you said, character that hasn't been in it for several books? Bitch, how dare you not remember who they are. They rode a horse that one time, remember?

??

!!

%%

I dont Get it

@@lavranstvinnereim7921 Google the now kiss meme.

Sunk cost fallacy: practical definition

I first started reading the books in high school (introduced by my dad), so I think the "weird lone wolf type characters" were really what I related to. In fact, I might go so far as to say that Wheel of Time got me through high school because it helped me to push through so much that was nearly unbearable for me (with Rand as my role model really). It just gave me exactly what I needed to survive when no one understood me and I felt totally disconnected from everyone around me. I read all the available books (up through Knife of Dreams) six times over just during high school. Anyway, perhaps understanding how I came to adore the series will help you find a way to read it. Every time I come back to the series, it's like reminiscing with old friends. Deeply flawed friends, sure, but friends that grow into the people that you are proud to know in the end.

​@@iamqtpie2825 Thank you for sharing! Honestly I think for me the biggest frustration was just how many of the conflicts seemed to be caused by the fact that all the characters seem to hate and distrust each other for no clear (to me anyway) reason. Like, they're all alone, in a far away land, and these handful of friends they knew from growing up are all they have left of their home land, literally the only people they should be able to have any confidence in or trust in, and instead of trusting and growing closer to them, they push them all away and assume the absolute worst about them at every possible moment, usually for the sake of causing unnecessary conflict in the story. One of my least favorite story tropes is the Easily Avoidable Misunderstanding, where a conflict is caused between two people not because one side is actually opposed to the other, but because of a contrived misunderstanding between one or both of the characters, and through the first book and a half, this series was chock full of those. For just one example from the beginning of book 2: Instead of telling his friends how he's feeling and what his plans are, Rand treats them like a jerk so they won't follow him when he plans to leave. That, whether he realizes it or not, makes him an actual jerk, and also a fool since if either of them are actually good friends that will just make them want to follow him more to see that he's okay since he's acting so out of character, all of which makes me uninterested in seeing Rand succeed because he's an unlikable jerk for no reason to the people who should matter most to him, but later he comes clean to them that it was all and act and why he did it, so at least we can get by this terrible piece of writing... except, no, despite knowing him their entire life to not act in that manner, because he acted like that in a single conversation with them, and despite the fact he has just explained why he did so, neither of his friends believe him and both continue to assume that he really meant what he said... so now I hate both of these characters as well because what kind of human garbage would treat another person, let alone their friend, like that, let alone knowing the situation he's in. And it was like that over and over with all of the characters, they all treated each other like untrustworthy garbage for no clear reason, abandoning a literal life time of friendship at the drop of the hat in response to even the most minute perceived slight. In higshchool I was a loner too, I had no friends, spent every lunch sitting/eating alone on the ground in the 120 degree phoenix arizona sun because none of the other kids would let me eat at their lunch tables under the shade providing over hangs. 4 years of that did a number on me. But it wasn't because I didn't trust anyone, it was because I was shy and had moved there from out of town so couldn't break into the already established child hood friend groups of all of my classes. Shy characters, that I can relate to, being forced to be alone for reasons outside your control, that I can relate to, characters who distrust others, even their friends, because they've been consistently betrayed by those close to them, even that I can understand though not directly relate to, but characters who mistreat and distrust their friends for no reason, that just does not compute for me, and isn't enjoyable to read for me either. None of that takes anything away from your own experience though, and if these characters were a friend to you during your own rough times, I'm all the more glad these books and this series exists. Just because a book doesn't resonate with me, doesn't mean it can't still be valuable, can't resonate with others.

I read 6 books in high school and then gave up. The plot really stops developing after book 3 and then it's just the same plot every book with slight variations, a villain of the week kind of thing. I didn't even get to a slog

The Slog is mostly going from huge world trekking adventures to spending an entire book in a single city and 3 books of Perrin's Side Quest.

@@aozgolo It would have been funny if after all that Perrin went through if Faile got a knife in the back and died just as he got her back. That hole part of the books was so hard to get through

Something something Empress, might she live forever.Something something Empress, might she live forever. Something something Empress, might she live forever. Something something Empress, might she live forever.”mIgHt ShE lIvE fOrEvEr”🙃

I enjoyed Perrin, Matt, Egwene and Nyvene's journeys. The one I had the hardest time with was Rand. Especially in the later books. Just found him annoying. I sort of chalked it up to "he's going a bit mad and he's a farm boy who is having to become a king" but still. Rand is my slog.

that... kind of is what the word means already. Did you think WoT fans coined the term "slog"?

@@jonstein4606 right. But its not commonly used. I meant it should be brought back into every day use

i like wednesday :(

The "perrin looking for faile" section is the worst part by far, imo. It just feels like progress isnt being made. I cared a lot more about what was happening to faile than about perrin's attempts to find her. I feel like the could've sidelined perrin for a few books, kinda like they do with one character in the third book (you know who i'm talking about)

@@Danmeilover69 Are you talking about when Mat was trying to be nice to Berelain by bowing to her? He was explaining that if he had pinched her or somehow insulted her then her rudeness would be warranted. But he bowed to her and she was downright rude about it.

@@cdubbau135 Oh! Okay that makes way more sense! I must have been really out of it when I read that scene. I went back and looked at it again. What was I thinking? I am really sorry for being a moron.

@@Danmeilover69 You weren't being a moron. There are always times, especially in books like these where the author's words tend to bleed together if you read them long enough. And I understand. It took me a bit to warm up to Mat, but give it time. He really is awesome.

​@@cdubbau135 I know. But I still feel really dumb for doing that and I could have hurt someone's feelings by insulting their favorite character without having took the time to think first.

it was such a clever way of writing fights- the sword form names are so descriptive that they take the place of most of the play-by-play details about what the combatants are doing

@anonymous opinions Well no kidding, if you like reading traditional fantasy action sequences, a deliberately novel/alternative approach is not going to be satisfying.

My dislike of the sword forms stems from my overexposure to martial arts books, movies and magazines in the 90's. At first, some of the moves were descriptive names, like "Tiger Claw." As the martial arts craze went on, the names became more flowery and ridiculous, like "Swan Whispers in the Night Over Dancing Pebbles in the Rain." This instilled a real dislike of that sort of thing, and makes it sound pretentious.

@anonymous opinions Yep they’re completely corny and idiotic

I feel the same, the books came out every couple of years and sometimes you need a a little reminder of details. Just skip the paragraph if it bothers. Also the editors will actually want a little repetition in case a reader is picking it up to read out of order.

I agree. The repetition was a little grating back when I was reading as the books were being released, but it was generally not the biggest issue I had with the series. Nowadays, as I'm in the middle of my reread, the repetition is much, much worse and I end up skimming over much of it.

Do you recommend not to binge read the series? I'm asking because I just started with the first book and I'm super bored.

Srikkanth G well, all the books are out. It is complete, so at the end of the day, reading pace will solely be dictated by your level of enthusiasm. All the books have parts which are slow, and all have parts that move at speed and they have multiple prophecies which hint at future development. Part of the joy for me was keeping track of all those prophecies and all the theories and seeing them each get ticked off the list in wonderful ways. But we each have our own tastes. I’d recommend reading the first 2 books. If you’re not hooked by then, then reconsider. Book 2 is awesome, Book 3 is slow, book 4-7 are awesome, 8-10 are the slog, 11-14 are the glorious, long awaited ending. And, like Daniel says, only read New Spring after book 5

@@eloyc4245 Wonderful. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm finishing up the first book and it's only towards the end that my interest is peaking. I'm not a prophecy or theory person. I just read and let the narration take its way. May be that's how I read as I'm new into the Epic Fiction Genre.

I sort of half expected him to get with berelain until FAILE came back and I realized that multi book whole jealousy arc was just to waste my time👎

Me too. I wasn't aware there was a 'slog'. And since I've reread the series many times I guess I really don't mind repetition.

I don't read fast and I hate repetition. I makes the story even slower

Exactly this. The slog for me was waiting years for the next book then being depressed 3 days later when you realise you have years more to wait for the next book.

Yeah when you were a child I bet it slapped. A baby child could only enjoy this writing you big incel baby

I agree. Everyone seems to complain about Jordan's descriptions of scenery and dresses and everything but I love it. Not simply because it helps me picture it in my mind's eye but also because I feel that this is where his talent with words shines the most. It's so well-written it makes this entire world sound poetic and magic. For me, *this* is fantasy.

Marco Meijer hahahahaha

Whoever doesn't read Goodkind, hey, it's their loss. I love my WOT but The Sword of Truth series is fantastic. If he ripped off Jordan, he definitely did it the right way.

Emilio Rodriguez my problem with goodkind’s writing, his public behavior aside, is the fact that it’s really repetitive, he uses a pattern of story then deus ex machina to solve problem then the second book is fallout from it and barely focuses on the issues then it’s resolved by another deus ex machina, then there’s an issue from the last deus ex machina, then rinse and repeat, there is very little conflict, characters make really snap decisions for very little reason, plotlines that don’t really further the story and a bit of a tonal problem. I read up to the beginning of book 6 and just stopped because it was just not going anywhere

I did read the synopsis and it just looked like a lengthy load of very little happening until the last book where everything happens

@@licenciado1970 I've read the full 11 book sword of truth series, and it has two very major, interconnected problems. 1- Richard, and to a lesser extent Kahlan, are set up narratively to be these perfectly moral people who are awesome and always succeed and are always right, when a great deal of their actions- when looked at objectively- are horrific war crimes. 2- the author doesn't even seem to care about the actual story- he just wants to preach Ayn Rand objectivism. The series is just Atlas Shrugged with wizards.

@Fiif You nailed it, and I stopped at the same time. Was also frustrated that I had to wait for him to put out the next book, and there was no indication of how long it would take. But now, all these years later with the series finally completed and hearing all the positive reviews, I decided to try again and so here I am...200 pages in on the first book. I hope my friends will still remember me

@Fiif you actually dropped it BEFORE the pacing gets really bad, so if you already had trouble, you probably wont make it through books 7-10.

The pacing is what made me drop it. I made it up to the cleansing (and maybe the book after that, it was one of the last books in paperback at the time) and was burnt out at that point. I do not feel the desire to dive back in and go through that one more time, and this is someone who keeps Honor Harrington, Belgarion, and Lessa permanently on my shelves.

Brainlet

Tuon = Moraine = Nyneave = Morgase = Aviendha. They all say the same things, think the same way, and are not critically different in story or temperament, ability, or language. Got it. PS: Yes, I did go out of my way to think of characters who were fundamentally different in at least a couple of ways to all the characters I added to my list, and who spoke different than the other ones. While that might be a hack here, it also didn't take me more than 30 seconds to think of them, and there are probably so many more, as lots of varieties of women still do exist here. Tons.

No, there are 2 female characters, come on. There is Moraine and there is Nynaeve, and every other female is some kind of copy of one of those two!

@@dedf15 So Tuon is either a copy of Nyneave or a copy of Moraine? Hmmm. Somehow, I think that old hag Elaida is going to be breaming in praise, being at least as good as one of them. Not even the worst personality traits of Nyneave brought out in the early books are even touching much similarities on that, without serious lifting in mental gymnastics. And even those two buffoonery leaders aren't related to each other. And this gets even more strange when we talk about both good and bad minor characters that are female, and I can name quite a ton. Trying to pretend they are carbon copy pastes of Moraine and or Nyneave is dumb. Especially when we start getting into the first book in all of this. No, not the Eye of the World, nor New Spring. But the largely unreleased book until post-humously released from the original author, that was not quite the same world as the WoT. But we could start to see a lot of those ideas start taking shape there. And guess what? Oh, yeah, some of the characters in there predated those two in their ideas anyway. So if anything, those two must be carbon copies of other women in Robert Jordan's writing?

@@adrianbundy3249 I'm not sure how a WoT Stan ended up replying to my reply, instead of OP, but to answer your oddly worded complaint, yes, the majority with one or two exceptions of all women written into the Wheel follow a couple of similar archetypes. You have the quiet, reserved types who never share their opinions on the outside, the types like Moraine. Whether they have power or not, they simply push the story along without altering its course much at all. The only Forsaken I can really remember was Moghedein, and all she wanted to do was hold onto her power, walk around naked all day long, and plot from the shadows. Her influence was barely felt, until the one or two times she actually had a confrontation, but then she either ran away or got nuked from orbit. Then on the other hand, you have the aggressive, macho feminine type who always think they know best, who never trust men, who may have some hidden or public power but never work with the team, instead doing their own thing and being vocal about it. Nynaeve, the bodyguard chick, the Dark Sister plant all follow this pattern instead. Very few of the other female characters break from these two stereotypes. Faile, the Queen who fell in love with Mat, and maybe the other female Forsaken fall somewhere outside the Pattern on this one, but seriously, it's not that big of a deal. I think I finished reading the series 6 years ago, it's not exactly fresh in my head, and the length of the series has discouraged me from going back to it again.

yes, this is about where i put the books down. i think book 6 or 7. its been a while. Also, when every room someone walks in takes a full page or two to describe.

Darrick Bowe there’s usually like a sentence of dialogue between characters before going into more detail of a room or other people in said room

I hope you don't give up. You will be happy with the payoff.

Honestly book 10 broke me. I haven't gone back since then. But I know that the rest of the series is phenomenal but I just need to let it stay in the back burner for a while.

Try David Eddings 'The Belgarion' series, you'll think WoT is a breath of fresh air by comparison. I still love Eddings works but its more nostalgia than anything else.

It does mean the title is misleading

He's the male version of Nynaeve.

I'm on book 2, and I can already see that

Just finished book 2 and yeah, all the relationships so far, especially the weird thirst 3 women have for rand (i guess Egwene has an excuse), are weaksauce

@@TheMightofDab right ughhh it goes to show that no book is perfect

On a reread, you do pick up hints of the Nyneave and Lan relationship. Just watch for it on your reread.

I quite like the nynaeve/ lan relationship in the first books. Its been less than a handful, but those were very elegant ways of portraying how they felt for each other.

Same

Yes! Exactly this! On my 3d reread and I get so frustrated with the lack of communication! So many problems that could be avoided if they just talked and explain their point of view, not ASSUMED that everyone saw things their way! And then be pissed when people don't.

I actually enjoyed this because of how well it mimicks real life lol

If anything it's too short.

Rushav Mohanty I like this viewpoint

Agreed. That and it was sort of a placeholder while he positioned the world for the conflict incoming, although he could have spread it out more and interlaced it,he did what he could.

The slog was just Jordan milking the story cash

@@Henry-jp3mc of course he was that's what a capitalist does we've got to write books we've got to make things we've got to bro things we've got to manufacture things just like he did with these books that's what makes him great

TubLar Good luck with college! You can do it!

Same over here, bro

Listen to it! Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do an absolutely amazing job on the audio book and you can control the playback speed.

Yeah that is pretty annoying alongside the general nyniyeve gender war stuff

@@pipsqeak7104 What Nyaneve gender-war stuff?

Ngl though I do respect how Jordan sees breasts as just a natural part of a female’s body rather than being used as a form of sexualisation or being inaporopriate. Breasts are treated as casually as arms and hair and it’s refreshing to see

The books are for adults, be an adult. Get over it.

I respectfully agree with the two comments above; A) it’s an adult book series, meant for adults to be consumed as such, and B) breasts are just another body part to be acknowledged. It’s not sexualization to talk about hands and hair and eyes as often as Jordan does, so breasts (covered, at that) should be no exception.

I totally love The Wise Man's Fear despite its flaws. The best I can say for WoT is that I respect Jordan's ambitious effort.

wise man's fear and name of the wind are overrated and have cringe romance.

@@georgethompson1460 it’s supposed to be cringe romance lol it’s a teenager, name of the wind is an incredible book

Nothing with Perrin is slog. Now Nyneave and Elayne in the Lord of Chaos....

I'm at this point right now, and its fucking hilarious how useless the glossary at the back of the book is. Want to know what the Trolloc Wars were? Heres an entry that essentially says "A war with the Trollocs". Want to know what the breaking of the world was? Well its a fundamental part of the world thats been explained multiple times but sure, hes a quick explainer? Trying to remember the difference between two low-appearance but high-importance characters that are diametrically opposed but their names are literally only different by one letter? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU INATTENTIVE PRICK! FUCKING GOOGLE IT! I DARE YOU TO RISK THE SPOILERS FROM JUST TYPING A NAME!

Good for you. Keep on reading. This series will blow your mind. As far as I'm concerned, the wheel of time is the best epic fantasy ever written. I stand by this statement.

Philippe Poupart is you like Sanderson I would recommend Mistborn from him.

Yes but to compensate, Matt's negative remarks about women were also numerous and annoying, and looked like misogyny at some points... That's one of the reasons why I had to wait until book 6/7 to appreciate him (so a bit later than others)

You know, it actually makes sense. And it's not just Nynaeve. She's the most guilty, but she's not alone. Remember the world they are in. Remember what happened three thousand years prior to the story. Men literally broke the world. That is a trauma that sticks. It's why Reds by and large are at least indifferent to them, if not outright despise them. A man did something big on his own because the women didn't support him, but that part has been drowned in first hits companions and then every other man who could channel starting havoc. There was murder, destruction and literal reshaping of the land wrought by men. The scope of that is not well shown. Fires of Heaven makes a few points about it, but beyond that it's mostly the Forsaken making remarks. All that because ONE man couldn't wait and acted on his own, with 100 other men who followed him. Which didn't really help the issue. And that man is feared for it. Hated. Men causing problems invokes these deeply buried traumas. Gives many women the feeling that they can't rely on men, that their involvement will only cause problems and even make things worse.

@@nestrior7733 true except for the point about Lew's not wanting to wait The shadow was starting to far out gun the light. If the bore wasn't sealed soon the light would lose The male and female split is what caused the breaking

Considering the lore it more than makes sense. Also the whole WoT world is a matriarchy, what the hell do you expect? Sunshine and rainbows? Try working in an environment where 90% of people are woman, then give me a call.

Alexis Q. Oh please. The most mat ever says is “women are hard to understand” perfectly reasonable since he’s surrounded by Aes Sedai

Never did the trick for me either. Yet strangely, I rather enjoy hearing Daniel sharing his passion for it.

Eye of the world you need to reach Camelyn. Once you reach Camelyn it becomes good. Author dragged the escape from Shadar logoth to Camelyn so much that anyone will feel bored since nothing great is happening.

@@kunalsinghal1247 I ended listening to the whole series as audiobook, that did work for me and I bought the remaining novels. But the series only became more appealing to me when Jordan changed Mat from an annoying character to an awesome one.

Yes! This! I hated this about the series.

I don't think you get it. A lot of people don't. He flipped the power dynamic from men to women and the results are the same. Ever heard the saying absolute power corrupts absolutely? In our world, historically, men in power treated women badly. Do you get it now? It wasn't supposed to be about "female empowerment" at all.

@@kevlar1482 And how do you know that? Because that is definitely how it comes across to me. And clearly to other people as well. I honestly think he thought that women would find the Mat/Tylin situation amusing, but we definitely don't.

There were sometimes years between the books, and many series we're not completed back then, that we can binge read today. It's a quite simple explanation, really.

so, how did it go?

You've just given my my idea for a new project!

@@Rennies-World :)

It's so beautiful! I lost all my hardcovers and paperbacks personal library some years ago, due some...sad, even tragic life event; and till this days, I do miss my physical books dearly. Some years ago, I made the "choice" (forced mainly by monetary concerns) to reconstituate it almost to the last title, and even some more new additions, as download e-books. It is fantastic, yet... somehow, it doesn't feel the same, and I will always regret my beautiful shelves full of colorful books...

Only Dressrosa felt sloggy, but the end of it and the allies they made there were awesome, not to mention the Rise of God Ussop!!!

@@pokedoctor2087 Not really. Fisherman's Island was pretty meh as an arc. A good beginning and ending but a horrible middle part. Dressrosa was bad because it was too big of an arc and Oda could have accomplished all of it by breaking it down into multiple arcs. That said, it does set up a lot of the current arc as well. Overall, I find most of the post-time skip a mixed bag with Zou onwards actually being very good. And is a step down from pre-time skip.

damm...I need to get back to watching one piece then....I pretty much stopped reading the manga during the punk hazard arc

@@sukanatkanchanabhogin3565 read the manga, it has better pacing

So the women and rand are explained several ways, the pattern needed them together to help rand, the story need them together and the aiel set up the multiple wife thing. The saddest part is that jordan never gave Elayne time to be with rand like he did M and A. But the by far worst relationship was moraine and thom. That came out of nowhere. All of the sudden they love each other? My favorite relationship was androl and pavara. That was surprisingly great

I think the situation where both Egwene and Elayne are at the beginning of their training in the tower is a special situation. Like going to the army for your ground training. You know you will be there for quite some time and quite close to the other young folks around you. If you see someone you find likeable you could form a friendship much faster than under normal circumstances. Though I agree, the line "let's be friends" sound a little bit like kindergarten.

Lost about :yeah, Faile is terrible, she got to me as well, but then I continued for the others, right now, it’s Mat who interests me. I’m on book 7...

Faile Elayne Nyn and Egwene when I saw them I skipped the page.

Nynaeve got a lot better in sandersons books, for me egwene, elayne, and faile were the worst

For me its just Egwene and Nynaeve, Elayne is bearable (atleast so far, I'm on book 4), aviendha has like zero screen time lol, and Min has been really loveable so far. Morraine is... Morraine, I like her, she's fine, if a little infuriating. Faile is at the top of the "box your ears" girls, it works for her, and should've been limited to her and Nynaeve.

@@williambrown2135 if ur only on book 4, it gets worse. Aviendha will get more screen time and is a great character. The box your ears thing works for nynaeve. Elayne gets worse in the later books along with Faile. Egwene is just arrogant and while she does improve for a time she again gets worse. Faile is definitely the worst tho, Elayne is just an idiot

Leif Miller I don’t know how many times I’ve read it. I know it’s north of 8, but I’ve also just reread specific closer to 15 times. Shadow Rising I’ve read at least 12.

@@DanielGreeneReviews That's impressive. It's a pretty great series

@@DanielGreeneReviews Im the same .. Ive read EOTW like 9 times but AMOL only twice I have to say my favorite and least favorite book is The Shadow RIsing.. I love it because of all the progress the main chars make and the great scenes in the book... I hate it because the Waste is so Desolate it gives me a dreadful feeling thinking about being there

I started reading it when book 3 was released. After book 6, 2 year gaps between books started, so I would read book 1-6, before 7, then 1-7 again before 8, all the way up to book 14. I've since read 1-14 every couple of years. Just finished again a few weeks ago :)

That's kind of how I felt too when I first read the series years ago. I couldn't relate much to the female characters (which was a little weird as a female) and didn't think they were different enough from each other to really be representative of the many personalities women do have. However, there are certainly women who behave similarly to his characters, so I didn't let it bother me overmuch. I'm still a huge Wheel of Time fan for a bunch of other reasons just like Daniel Greene.

Eugene and moraine are a little different though.

i would change it a bit 1-3 LOTR inspired adventure 4-5 more in depth but not better than the first 3 6-11 the slog( with 6 and 11 being somewhat transitional from good to boring but still mostly boring) 12-14(Sanderson) -return to form

@@arte0021 You know, I can kinda see 6 being put in the slog. That part where the girls are stuck in Salidar and the Aes Sedai are basically sitting on their hands is extremely boring and frustrating. It doesn't help that Nyn and Elyane are bored and frustrated by the situation... that doesn't help the reader feel differently. Still, with the rescue, the battle of Dumas' well and the the ending interaction with the Aes Sedai saves it. To each their own of course.

@@arte0021 Book 6 is definitely a part of the slog. Having just reread it, most of the book is set up for its conclusion and while the conclusion is fantastic, it doesn't entirely justify the prior 700 or so pages that it took to get there. It really, really needs a good editing. Book 7 I feel doesn't entirely deserve the lambasting it gets from the fandom. For one, it's way better paced overall, with some good action and character moments interspersed and almost every character feels like they have a goal or something to work towards. The ending is not as great as Dumai's Wells, but everyone gets something to do and a climax to their current story arc, and I really, really love Matt's encounter with the gholam personally. Overall, I think it's probably my favorite entry in 'the slog.' Book 8 was... not as good as I recall it being. The first half is really rough and I really don't like how the book is paced at all. We get large blocks of chapters focusing on a single character or set of characters and then the book shifts to another character for a similarly large chunk of chapters so if there is a character you do not like, you're largely stuck with reading about them for a significant period of time. There's some really good stuff in the first half, but Perrin's chapters are not the most exciting and I physically cannot take reading about Elayne and Nyneave for sustained periods of time. The Rand chapters are good, but a lot just feels like it's setting things up for future books rather than resolving anything. Probably the worst overall entry in the series so far. I'm on book 9 right now and it'll be interesting to see my reaction to it as I really, really did not like both this and book 10 back when they were first released. In fact, book 10 made me quit the series initially.