Yeah so the way the attack table works, in simplified terms is the game roll 1-100 when you are attacked. The different things that can happen is: 1-5 (Miss) // 6-10 (Parry) // 11-15 Dodge // (15-20) Block // 21-25 (Crit) // 26-40 (Crush) // 41-100 (hit) The different attacks are pushed off the table from the left to the right. So say you increased your chance to block by 10%, the table now looks like: 1-5 (Miss) // 6-10 (Parry) // 11-15 Dodge // 15-30 (Block) // 31-35 (Crit) // 36-50 (Crush) // 51-100 (hit) Keep adding avoidance until all regular hits are pushed off the table, and then keep adding more avoidance. Eventually the crushing blows gets pushed off, and every attack that land on you will be either a miss, dodge, parry, block or crit. Holy Shield is 30% avoidance and thats why you need it to push crushes off. Because getting this extra 30% avoidance passively on gear means a massive loss in other stats on order to do so, if its even possible. Hope this explanation makes sense.

@@Avoidling It does make sense. That's more or less how I imagined the attack table to work, but with different numbers; The way I calculated how to push crushing blows off the table was like this: (Considering my current 411 defense stat) - 9.44% block chance - 14.44% parry chance - 10.73% dodge chance - 5% + 111*0.04% = 9.44% miss chance That amounts to 44.05%. Also the chance of being crit at that defense level is of 1.16%. So the boss' attack table against me would be: 9.44% miss, 14.44% parry, 10.73% dodge, 9.44% block, 1.16% critical, 15% crushing, 39.79% normal hit. So i think I'd need 39.79% extra block chance in order to start eating up crushing blow chance, 54.79% extra block to be immune to crushing blows and to start eating up critical hit chance and 55.95% extra block to finally be immune to critical hits and crushing blows. My conclusion was that Holy Shield didn't get me to reduce the chance of being crushed. With Redoubt procced on top of it, however, I'd get immune to both critical hits and crushing blows. But that would require me to be crit, which seems counterproductive. What is your opinion on that? And thanks for taking the time to talk with me!

@@opossssum7243 A lot of people think Redoubt is a bit of a counterproductive talent, but I like it. Consider that in order to get crit immune you need to sacrifice a huge amount of other stats, both in stamina, avoidance, and threat stats like spellpower. I dont think thats worth going for at all. So rather than aiming for this, if you instead can get relatively high avoidance without being crit immune you are going to rely on Redoubt. Once you do get crit, your avoidance shoots up by another 30%, so with Holy Shield active at the same time you pretty much guarantee you will not be crit for the next five attacks against you. Plenty of time for healers to top you off. The risk of getting oneshot is also very low with enough stamina and armor on your gear in general.

@@Avoidling Oh what I meant was that getting critically hit on purpose (by sitting) was counterproductive. Guaranteeing that every hit after the crit is gonna be blocked or avoided is very good, since I imagine the single crit isn't gonna kill the tank by itself, but followed by other hard hits, either a crushing blow or another crit, is much more dangerous. I really like Redoubt

@@opossssum7243 To further clarify, The way the game works is 1 point of Defense gives you 0.04% to Miss/Dodge/Parry/Block, Not only this but Defense reduces your chance to be CRIT (200% dmg). When you hit 440 Defense you will no longer receive physically based critical attacks. Inorder to become Uncrushable(150% dmg), you need Miss%+Dodge%+Parry%+Block% to be Greater than or equal to 102.4%, Even if you have 0 defense, this will still make you uncrushable. Holy Shield adds 30% to your block meaning you would only need 72.4% from your avoidance/mitigation.

I see Quel'Serrar more as a defensive weapon. The speed on it, 2.0 seconds is quite alright for mana regeneration and it has a nice 50 DPS on it for some additional white damage. Im not sure if you have watched my video on tanking Garr, but on that boss I use Quel'Serrar for the 12 stam and the defense/armor proc to reduce incoming damage. I also plan on using it for suppression room in BWL. As for Ironfoe. I had one on a private server I played on. On that server, the mace had somewhat higher procrate than it does in Classic, but even there I still preferred Flurry just because 2.4 speed like the Ironfoe is isnt that great for mana regen and because of how SoR works, a slow weapon just scale much worse with spellpower when using Seal of Righteousness aswell since your weapon only gain 10% of spellpower regardless of weapon speed. (On Private servers slower weapons actually scaled better than fast ones, but this is not the case in Classic) What is nice about Ironfoe however is that the proc cause you to do two additional attacks. And precicely because it is slow, you are going to get a huge chunk of threat when it procs. Note that the procrate is just 0.8 ppm (twice that with SoR active), and in the sub one minute encounters you see in Molten Core you may not even get any procs. When you add that Flurry or any other faster weapon is superior when it comes to mana regen, and that threat Greater Kings dwarves any other ability you got then Ironfoe is a lot less appealing to me. What I do want to say about Ironfoe though. Its an amazing PvP weapon. It can selfproc, and it can trigger on Reckoning meaning the potential for burst damage is huge in a PvP setting. You are also quite tanky since you will be wearing a shield and if you are able to get your hands on an Ironfoe I highly reccommend it for PvP.

@@Avoidling Thank you for the reply, I guess for now, I will keep rocking Quel'serra.. I look forward to seeing you future videos and the information contained within. Light be with you.

As a Human, I should say, regarding Mageblade.

Dear God, even if it was worth it please don't take Tear from casters. If I saw a paladin with Tear I would hope everyone around is using /spit at them, lol.

@@adamj93 its the same for warrior tanks they usually take big items away from dps

Usually you need mitigation gear and paladin class gear t2 t2.5 Spellpower is eventually used for trash fights, i would recommend not using only gbok cuz it splits Otherwise spellpower is a plus agaisnt bosses all threat comes from gbok.

You get the effect of both yeah. No idea if its a bug or not, but Blizzard is so slow at addressing these things, and with all the other quirky behavior in Classic I think we should just assume it works as it should for now and keep using it.

I'm currently itemized around GBoK which means I sit at 400 defense, high amounts of stamina and I use a fast weapon (Flurry Axe) to sustain my mana for more GBoK casts. We will see how it plays out in the future but I imagine I will have to add in more offensive items later on when my raid starts to do more damage. Right now my only real threat stats come from Judgement Crown, Briarwood Reed and the 3% hit I get from talents.

@@Avoidling Can you post your actual gear/build?

@@Ryan-ju4cf Yes ofcourse :) Here's the gear I use for the majority of content I tank. classic.wowhead.com/gear-planner/paladin/dwarf/AjwPBQUB8FMFEzUAEEHwUATwgUI7PB0CQqmDONhYQQUxSgY5HIc5HzwdiEl2TjSJQdlOK4o5Hk4sC0m_DC2VDS44Dkfmj0g_NjqQA2dY3ZFCqjV5

@@Avoidling how rare is that redoubt cloak? never seen anyone using it

@@sepfirem I dont think its very rare. Took me 30+ runs for it to drop but i think I was very unlucky. Seen them a lot after that. You can also advertise that you want to buy it to the Hunters farming there and buy it from any of them if it drops.

My cat could tank this version of Classic..

@@rudy1999 When warriors have to be fury prot to keep up with the dps, the content is a joke. There were very few guilds that raided in the "classic" way, most stacked every buff for every raid. I tanked on a druid for classic. It was kind of a joke for threat. With world buffs, a druid using a pummeler is capable of sustaining 2k threat per second in naxx level gear. No one needs that.

Nah, its 9000g on my server. Dont feel its worth the pricetag for a roughly 40 tps increase (what I calculated based on my current gear)

Kinda worthless item for paladin who can generate threat with spells not melee attacks.

@@rudy1999 Its one of the strongest options for that particular slot so dont get me wrong. Landing more hits result in more white damage, more seals triggering, more mana restored from judgement of wisdom. Not to mention the threat increase from needing 3% less hit chance allowing other gear options in the other slots, but still, the current pricetag makes me not want to get them.

I wanted to demonstrate that its possible to tank the boss. Normally I tank both dogs on this boss and let the Warrior/Druid tank take the Golemagg. If your raid already has a Warrior or Druid tank in it then yeah, you are better off letting them have Golemagg. But as you can see its doable with a Paladin tank aswell.

Why would they remove it? Its confirmed as the correct behaviour. It's more likely that the players you were buffing were not on the threat table of the boss, or that whoever already had aggro had too much of a threat lead.

@@Avoidling no idea but atleast GbofSanc gave me 0 threat even spamming it to 9 warriors that were in raid should have tested with kings but i was only pala with Sanc so had to spam that

@@sepfirem How did you perform the test? Keep in mind that blessing threat wont show up on most threat meters so if you were just watching those then it wouldnt record the threat from GSanct

@@Avoidling might have been that then

What advice would that be? My gearchoices, rotation and playstyle come from the various Paladin theorycrafting discords and is based on very thorough research, math and discussion with other Paladin tank players. Killerduki is not in any of these discords to contribute. Yes, unfortunately there are people out there who still listen to Killerduki. His understanding of the underlying mechanics behind the Paladin class is quite poor which clearly shows when you start talking more in depth about paladin mechanics with him. Now he has a good understanding of dungeon tanking. Killorder on packs, doing bodypulls and los pulls, that kind of thing. But when it comes to the actual mechanics of the class, how our threatscaling works with gear, how Seals operate with varying attackspeeds, weapon procrates etc you realize he dont really know or has any interest in learning. Sadly I would have liked for every Protection Paladin to work together to improve our collective understanding of the class, but you cant get everyone on the same page. But thats his business. Ultimately players must choose where to get their information on their own. I will keep making videos providing everyone with information that is as accurate as I am able, and then its up to anyone who view the video to either accept or reject this information if they think it makes/dont make sense. As for whether or not I know what I am doing. The video speaks for itself dont you think? :)

@@Avoidling No the video doesn't speak at all to this, Killerduki was the one who told you that you could tank the Garr adds and in his approximation he could out do you there by tanking all the adds plus the boss, but I am not Killerduki. As for your 'maths' you fail to show my math of Shadow Oil and DBC and regard them as 'not important' but they are two of the most vital buffs for a Paladin, especially when we get access to more Spell Power gear. You also state that Spell Power gear is not important and that the Paladin has 'low scaling abilities from it' It is statements like these that show how much you need to learn about the class, but luckily for you I am here to help. I am more than willing to have a call or conversation about this is it is very clear you do not understand some simple elements like what Seal of Righteousness actually does for the Paladin especially when comparing Spell Power to Attack Power for a Paladin Like I said more than happy to help you out though so let me know when you are free so I can help teach you so your content can be accurate :D

P.S I feel as though you might think I am being over critical here but I want you to know I wouldn't be commenting unless I felt as though these points needed to be brought up, because if you were to debate the likes of Skarm, Preach, etc... about trying to raid tank as a Paladin you would lose the debate and not do the class justice Like I said Im more than happy to have a call to discuss this further

Shadow Oil has a 15 second internal cooldown in Classic which means it's not something you would want to use while tanking and you are better off using Frost Oil. Especially if your raid has a Winters Chill mage. As for: "Killerduki was the one who told you that you could tank the Garr adds" No, he has never told me anything like that. Tanking all the adds is a very common strategy that any competent guild has been doing for years. What on earth led you to believe he was the one who told me about this? "You also state that Spell Power gear is not important and that the Paladin has 'low scaling abilities from it' It is statements like these that show how much you need to learn about the class, but luckily for you I am here to help." Not entirely sure what you are getting at here? Are you saying our spellpower coefficients are not low? Because thats not the case. You can see the coefficients of our spells at the 2 minute mark in the video. If you are interested in learning how the Paladin Class actually works from Paladins who have been tanking raids (some for years in all content), then I invite you to join the discord servers and talk to us. Always happy to share our knowledge. Ill also happily take you on your offer to have a call with you on discord sometime and see what you have to say. There's always potential to learn something even from those I may not agree with. discord.gg/eRjK8wd discord.gg/R5gZeVS

​@@Avoidling you were more calm than i would have been, @jay coming off as an abrasive ass hole wont win you respect or anyone's willingness to listen to you in any way shape or form, the expression “you will catch more fly's with honey than vinegar” comes to mind. And your one of them “elitist” ass holes who thinks he knows everything about a game because rather than researching it or actually going out and doing it or back checking the maths you watch skarm and blah blah blah, well fucking news flash most people are not at that level of play and this guys maths is spot on here. Yea of course there is other buffs to weps and all manner of off the side weird shit in the game to up your threat, not once did frog say otherwise, pallys have dog shit co-efficients on their spells and if you don't have access to full spell power gear then it is just flat mathematically better to GBOK spam (provided you have enough of the same class to do it on), frog even said in the vid “there will be a point when judgment is mana efficient over GBOK but I don't know what it is”. So next time you crack your knuckles and start your keyboard warrior bullshit, take the time to brush the filth out of the corners of your neck flab you waste of life fan boy, and actually invest time time required to form an opinion we cant all find on a major streamers channel.

maybe you can add english sub?

What a stupid comment.