Amen

I wouldn't even say minus 1 was a triumph against Hollywood when the Oscars was mostly dominated by Oppenheimer meanwhile minus 1 only won one award lol.

@@Kaiju-bm4ts you mean the rigged oscars that included barbie??

@@heretopissyouoff8439 The oscars are dumb, I can agree on that but it's pointless to call minus 1 a victory for Japan when an event like the oscars gave 1 award to minus 1 and glossed over it afterwards. Plus....gxk was successful in it's own right. Both films succeeded but it's dumb some people try to make it seem like minus 1 won some type of war or something

in all fairness there was a lot of boxoffice bombs that year and the year prior. When a foreign film does so well but big, multi million dollar franchises flop like Indiana Jones or a lot of these new Marvel movies, it says a lot about how these corporations make movies. Its less about the oscar and more of the money it made especially compared to its budget, that did put a lot of US films to shame, especially the reception being positive from both fans AND critics, which is hyper rare.

@@Kaiju-bm4ts as Orly911 pointed out it’s was all the Hollywood blockbusters bombing in recent years, that related on name value and multimillion dollar budgets. Where Minus One had a very low budget that wasn’t close to a Hollywood movie.

I agree if you are a true fan you will understand both of them are love letters to its fans ☺️

Exactly, and what better way to celebrate the 70th anniversary of Godzilla than by releasing two movies that shows and embraces both sides of Godzilla. 🎂🦖🎁

Enjoy both sides wouldn't last long

I completely agree. I do think it's flawed to call the monsterverse another "showa series" to dismiss all criticism. But almost everyone who's said that hasn't seen most of the showa era. I can say with confidence I have seen most of the first half of the showa era and it is not comparable. You may as well compare Godzilla Minus One with the monsterverse if they want to compare it to some showa era movies. I think the monsterverse should still be criticised, but since the fans are enabling the laziness of the industry by saying it doesn't need criticism they won't need to improve. It's not even to make the monsterverse more serious, just to make them better monster movies.

​@@Poliostasis I grew up with the showa godzilla films, and I've seen them all multiple times. This same logic is used by many people to excuse problems in the showa godzilla films as well. Films that take themselves serious like the heisei godzilla films get harshly criticized for the smallest of problems. Yet the showa era due to it "being aimed towards a younger audience" has all of it's flaws ignored. Basically the same thing is happening with Godzilla x Kong, having fans become defensive while not actually addressing the problems people have with the films. I personally liked Godzilla vs Kong 2021, I thought it was one of the better Godzilla films due to it's consistently high quality of animation, framing of the fights, tension, and overall creative combat. And I was excited for Godzilla x Kong... until I saw the trailer. Everything went downhill since then.

@@GSTE_ Quite unfortunate

Totally agree, there is to reasoning with them. It doesn’t matter if there are so many Godzilla movies, if a critic wants to review Minus One thats all they gotta watch. Not watch every single Godzilla movie first, by a die hard fan since they were born, buy the toys. I don’t know why so many Gfans are trying to gatekeep the franchise just because someone likes Minus One more than other Godzilla movies. The main problem with this “drama” is the toxic fans who hate Minus One because it’s more well received than the other movies. They are the ones who keep bringing up Minus One with the “Mid one made less then G x K” “Minus lame had so little Godzilla” “Too many words and not enough SKREEONK” “it pretends to be smart” “You only say Minus One is good because shitty KZfaqrs said it was even though they haven’t watched every single Godzilla movie”

@@justmenoah1729 Wow, imagine a foreign film with some cinema showings overseas making more money than a Hollywood blockbuster with more advertising budget and more available cinemas. Are these people brain-dead?

I notice more & more, even though we have the internet available. A lot of people don't like to do research. (Mostly young people)

Exactly. This is why I say "These films are my favorites." I may critique the story or effects, and may call them bad, but I try not to say an overall film is bad.

Wait Heisei is being criticized recently? I thought it was being criticized a few years ago.

I thought so to but I’ve seen some trash talk on both reddit and KZfaq recently

You need to log off the internet, you sound depressed

What makes it worst is that these "experts" (along with their defenders who let's be honest know less about the subject than these "experts" do and are only repeating what these "experts" are saying like sheep) try to act like they know about godzilla's character better than fans do. Despite they never gave this franchise a single glance til, minus 1 came out.

@@Kaiju-bm4ts This has been done for a long time. Whether it be against the showa era, having people say they are dumb movies because of the way Godzilla moves. Or on the other side having people say objectively false things against the Heisei Godzilla films in order to make people agree with them. This has been happening for a long time now. I've seen many people using the objectively false points that they heard someone saying. But I personally think what's even worse than people saying "all Godzilla films except minus one are bad" is saying that new fans who only like Godzilla minus one should be excluded because they aren't "real godzilla fans". Another example of this going on for an incredibly long time is the monsterverse. A lot of people only like the monsterverse and think the rest are bad. I've been told multiple times even this week that "the older ones looks so fake they aren't as real as the CGI of the monsterverse" Except instead of casual fans from the monsterverse, it's more critical people who like Godzilla minus one. This is also similar to the heisei gamera fans who brought people who criticized the heisei godzilla films yet don't talk about the showa or millenium films. Also having these people say the Heisei Gamera films are the best kaiju films and that everything else is bad.

You also have some G fans that love Minus One so much that they only want movies like that for now on instead of the more goofy and cheese films like "Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire". It's like dude, if you grown up with the series like most of us have then you know darn well that it won't be sticking with the same exact tone for more than four or fives movies onward. Some people like cheesy stuff, some people don't, and then theres some people (like me) that can enjoy both. ☢🦖😑🤦🤖🪲

@@saveriovinci1212 I don't see anything wrong with people wanting films that they think are good. If you want an example Ishiro Honda didn't even like the way the Showa era went, with making Godzilla act more human and the films having a lighter tone. Even saying that he couldn't imagine how he could have been able to direct Son of Godzilla. Does this mean Ishiro Honda can't enjoy a good Godzilla film. No it just means he thinks Godzilla has to be done a certain way for it to be good.

@@GSTE_ Im not saying it's a bad thing for people to want good movies, Im just saying that it's okay to have both the serious and the cheesy side of Godzilla. I said this already on someone else's comment but I feel like both "Godzilla Minus One" and "Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire" are good way to celebrate the 70th anniversary for the big guy. Also this whole back and forth drama in regards to Minus One and The New Empire is dumb in my opinion. It's one thing if you simply didn't like The New Empire but it's another thing to act like "it's going to ruin the series going forward" and constantly nagging about for days on end. 😑🤦‍♂ Also in terms of what you said about Ishiro Honda, I kinda find that ironic seeing that he was also the same director that made "Godzilla's Revenge" and the original "King Kong vs Godzilla" movie. And in both of those movies obviously had some comedic moments with the monsters too lol. 🌲🤭 🤸‍♂

I recently sat through Little Platoon's video of GxK, a video review for which he got hammered in the comments because he didn't like GxK... But you know what's funny? No one was able to point out what he got wrong. If your response to criticism of GxK with "it's supposed to not be serious", then you really don't have a leg to stand on because you're both admitting the film has issues and that you don't care about them, so why respond at all. You enjoy the movie. That's your prerogative. But don't then say it's a "good film" if your standards are to ignore the problems because you like it. People can analyze media and discuss the problems found in that media and yes, even discuss the intellectual aspects of said media. Something being dumb fun is exactly that. Dumb fun. Go ahead and enjoy it if you want but don't expect people who enjoy discussing things, the research that goes into them, and the process of storytelling to be impressed. And hey, you don't have to care about impressing them, but by that measure you shouldn't care about them also saying the films are mid. That's what I don't get about all this... the criticisms of GxK are valid ones. The plot is contrived, it's contradictory, it has inconsistencies, and overall doesn't really do much of anything. It's a dumb, silly, action film. If that's what you like, then that's what you like, but if you want to defend it when people criticize it, you can't just say "it's dumb action and I like it" in response ot "so Monarch built a whole robotic arm for Kong that they just so happen to have lying around here, still functioning, and this guy that tagged along knows exactly what to do to get it up and working?" Just say you like it and move on, don't just go "you are bad and smug and probably think you're better than me for disliking this movie", it makes you look like... well... like you're projecting.

Says the one who defends the monsterverse and hasn't watched any of the other films, lel. Seriously, you MV fans are toxic beyond belief. Anyone who criticizes those garbage films is labelled an "elitist", yet you hypcocrites attack shin godzilla non-stop along with minus one, claiming they're bad or not the "definitive" version. Piss off.

Weaponized... how? People are saying it's a higher quality product... is it not? I don't mean whether you enjoy it or not, I mean structurally and from a storytelling perspective. Like... compare Godzilla X Kong with Minus One, and GxK has more plot holes and inconsistencies than Minus One. You can agree to that, right? Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, but... is people saying they wish for higher quality films like Minus One really "weaponizing" it?

@@dfmrcv862 by "higher quality" they just mean they only want movie's like minus one over and over again. Plus, there's nothing wrong with GxK wanting to have a more simple story. Not everything has to be depressing and edgy all the time. Sure GxK indeed has flaws, but so what? Nothing is perfect. It's all completely subjective in the end. People are aloud to form their own opinions without being told how they should think and feel about art. Most people really seemed to have liked the New Empire anyways considering how successful it's done in the Box office. Proving that both types of Godzilla movies have an audience. It's not like literally every human being on earth liked minus one as well. Those people are obviously not expressing their opinions because they know they are gonna get harassed over not liking a fictional movie about a giant dinosaur. People act like they found Jesus Christ after they saw minus one to the point they feel like they have to shame people for liking the Monsterverse or anything else as well as trash talking on everything in the franchise that isn't minus one or the 54 movie. Like they're some crazy cult.

@@Chadzilla_the_Keyblade_welder I'm sorry... Which critic said *that?* Someone like Little Platoon gave a list of blockbusters that were higher quality than GxK, including but not limited to Indiana Jones, Deep Blue Sea, and Jaws. You can have a higher quality blockbuster that's not just about drama... Two, GxK is *not* a "simple story". It has prophecies, telepathy, multiple point of view characters, mapping of the hollow earth, *slavery* and the drama of the world adapting to the Titans. That's not "simple", that's if anything more complex than Minus One. It's just very badly written to the point it doesn't make sense. But that's what I find weird... Your defense of the film isn't to say the film is good, it's to say... You liked it and that it did well at the box office. Twilight did well at the box office. That doesn't make it a "good movie". But you know what? You made me realize why there's such a discrepancy... You attribute people's praise of Minus One as something overblown, but that's because there's much more to praise. I can praise the effects, I can praise the characters and their arcs, I can praise the direction, the tone, the research done to accurately portray the time period... Maybe that doesn't interest you, personally, but I had much more to talk about after watching Minus One than I did most films I watched in 2023. If I asked you what there is to praise about GxK... Um... The action... Uh... Some of the effects are cool, I guess. Oh, Kong knocking out that other ape was funny... Wait, that's technically part of the action... The plot sucks, like... Straight up. It's badly written and has a hundred plot holes even within its own established lore, and while it's cool that Mothra came back it's also kind of just... There. The plot exists to get us to the next action piece, and it even fumbles that at times (did we need to add the pilot getting eaten for a gag about nature in order to cut from Kong beating up that big dragon thing?) But that's kind of it. Minus One is objectively a better film so people have more to praise it other than the action of the Monsterverse. Or am I wrong?

@@dfmrcv862 again, Art is SUBJECTIVE. They're are people that actually like twilight and think it's a good movie. (Like some of my family does) If you don't agree, that's YOUR opinion. People are aloud to have the opinion that GxK is a good movie. Because there's no such thing as objective in art. That's like if I heard country music and said that it's objectively bad. Which would be wrong because many would disagree, and they are aloud to think for themselves. Your basically just proved my point about shaming people for thinking a certain way about a product when they are independent to have an opinion of their own. These are just fictonal movie's in the end. It's not that deep. And like I said, both movie's proved to have an audience. I agree that minus one is a better movie, but that shouldn't have to stop me and other people from liking GxK. Not everything has to be a "masterpiece" to be considered a good movie.

@@Chadzilla_the_Keyblade_welder you just made my point. Your defense is "art is subjective" but that's not a defense. When analysing art you can be objectively correct. Stories have plot holes. That's an objective fact. Stories can be badly written. That's an objective fact. The Twilight films have tons of these problems which people can point to in regards to noting their quality. Having an opinion on a film and analysing a film to gauge it's quality are not the same thing. Because you're not saying "I think it's bad", you're saying "I think it's bad because..." And then you list things that can be observed. As Little Platoon stated, having fun with a movie is fine, but it doesn't make the film good.

It's definitely gonna happen. It did with Shin Godzilla. Especially considering the amount of tourists and gatekeeping it caused. When people try to deflect criticism, it only makes the people that have those critiques to dislike the movie even more.

It probably will, this is the sort of thing that causes a consensus flip like that. Minus One is a very good movie but these film snobs are still managing to oversell it.

Its true tho Toho is better than legendary lol 😂😆🤣

I'm pretty sure before Minus One, Shin Godzilla was considered the best Godzilla movie of the 2010s. I certainly enjoyed it way more than 2014's Godzilla or King of the Monsters. But I'm not much of a Godzilla fan, I just like the occasions when it's more grounded.

@@dfmrcv862 Have you seen The Return of Godzilla (1984) yet? I'm a lifelong fan of the series and that one's my favorite.

@@vidwatcher30s Haven't seen the whole movie but, parts of it. It looked semi-grounded until the Super X showed up which somewhat contradicts the attempts at making the setting more grounded. Seems like a decent watch overall, though. The models look pretty impressive still.

@@dfmrcv862 It's well worth watching from beginning to end. I love the somber mood it creates.

I didn't mind the pink as much as I thought I would but violet would have been a better choice.

*_"some people feel the original film should not be touched."_* I disagree with them. A remake was long overdue, Minus One is the answer to it (or at least close to it).

I see Minus One as an elseworld story.

@MrAwsomeness360 I am not saying I agree with them mind you. What I am saying it is still an issue debated on within the discourse.

I'm pretty sure this is meant to be a hard reboot that begins its own timeline, not a prequel to the original.

@@Godzillakingofkaiju1 I agree as well. See my other comment to another replier.

A comparison between films is fine when both films have something worth comparing and contrasting. If they aim to do different things and appeal to different audiences or demographics then why compare them?. Minus 1 is closer/more comparable to gojira, shin gojira and gmk than any MV film. Meanwhile gxk is closer/more comparable to borderline any other godzilla movie from all 3 past eras of toho, especially the showa films. The comparison is done by people who are just looking for reasons to trash on gxk when they can easily compare a showa flick to gxk if they wanna prove why this film does what gxk does but better. But you can't expect most people who compare these 2 films to do that properly when most people that do compare them (mainly outside the fandom) don't know any other goji films aside from gojira, shin gojira, minus 1 and the MV.

From my perspective thats like saying because the point of eating is to consume that we should be putting anything and everything into our mouths. There are certain things that *technically* can be consumed, but you probably really shouldn’t. Similar sentiment with film comparisons. Can you compare Minus One to the Monsterverse? Yeah, technically you can. But is that something we should be doing? Comparing a cinematic universe to a single film? Comparing two completely different tones, goals, and visions?

So if you guys want me to compare gxk to a similar movie then I'll compare it to Pacific Rim Uprising lol

@@Godzilla-jr5gi Nice bait lol, gxk is a modernized showa flick in a nutshell. Uprising is just a sequel that didn't bother to acknowledge the canon lore in it's predecessor.

@@Kaiju-bm4ts but they are similar movies lol! But apparently that too is bad comparison cuz uprising sucks but GxK doesn't? Double standards much?

It really does feel like that. It seemed to repeat the discourse when Shin Godzilla came out of whether Godzilla should always be serious or not.

@@andrewdau1299 but considering GxK became the highest grossing Godzilla movie to date, I'm genuinely curious what Toho will do going forward.

I still found the whole thing with his mission to Hong Kong was weird, feeling more like a bond movie than Batman

I think the only reason why people don't want to compare Godzilla x Kong to Minus one is due to Godzilla x Kong being "dumb fun". And apparently that means it's protected from all and any criticism. But this isn't anything new, it's just that more people outside of the Godzilla fandom are noticing it, it's the same way films like Godzilla vs Megalon or most of the showa era are thought to be better than most of the Heisei and Millenium Godzilla films. Because the films had a "lighter tone" (which most of them didn't) that means they are protected from any criticism. These same people also put the heisei godzilla films under the microscope in terms of criticism. Looking at literally any smallest detail like the suit's tail ripping or small wires on the set. While ignoring much worse flaws in the showa era or other similar films of the heisei era. As well as literally saying objectively false things about the heisei godzilla films, and people just believed it. And now you have Godzilla fans that think Godzilla x Kong can't be criticized and everyone who thinks differently from them is objectively wrong without actually addressing people's problems with the film.

@GSTE_ "I think the only reason why people don't want to compare Godzilla x Kong to Minus one is due to Godzilla x Kong being "dumb fun". And apparently that means it's protected from all and any criticism." No, the reason is because they're totally different films. Different styles, different focus, different tone, different outlooks, different themes, different settings, and so on. In such a case, when there's so little in common between the two works aside from the presence of Godzilla, a comparison between the two is unwarranted. It's not comparing apples and oranges because they're both fruits, it's comparing apples and sports cars because they're both red. You may notice that even I, someone who enjoys GXK, has voiced critiques about certain things regarding it, such as the contrived nature of certain scenes or the humor not quite landing every time. I also was not overly thrilled with the score, if I'm being perfectly honest. I base these critiques not on the fact that GXK is not GMO, but on GXK's own merits. At the same time, though, they do not sufficiently detract from what I enjoy about the movie of think the movie did exceptionally well, so they are not going to result in me calling the movie bad. I can make up my mind about that without even needing to bring Minus One into the picture. At the end of the day, Minus One is a Historical Drama about survivor's guilt, living with PTSD, the government's indifference to the common man, and the ability of everyday people to band together in times of hardship. The New Empire is a Fantasy Adventure about exploration, parenthood, and the struggle of good against evil. If you drew a Ven diagram containing the various elements of each movie, the only guaranteed thing to be at the intersection point would be that Godzilla is in both of them. Maybe you could fit in themes about found families if you really stretch it, but that would be about it, and even those elements are drastically different in execution between the two. Basically, critiquing GXK by putting it up against GMO is akin to chastising a fish for not having a fur coat. Of course it doesn't. It's a fish, and should be examined as such. If you want something with fur, go with a lion. And if you still think I'm making excuses, here's a challenge: Star Wars: A New Hope is Sci-Fi/Fantasy with swordfights, magic, wild-looking aliens, and a 1940s aesthetic. 2001: A Space Odyssey is Hard Science Fiction with realistic physics, theoretically feasible concepts, no action scenes, very high minded ideas about life both terrestrial and extraterrestrial, and a 1960s aesthetic. Go ahead, tell me which one is superior by putting them side-by-side. They're both set in space, after all, so they must be comparable, and any pushback you might get is based entirely on one of those movies being excused by fanboys who want it protected from criticism, right? That must be the only reason. It couldn't possibly be that such a comparison makes no sense due to how different they are. When I critiqued Shin Godzilla, I critiqued it on its own terms, but I also did some comparisons. Specifically, I compared it to Godzilla 2014 because they are both serious and human-focused, and I compared it to Gojira because they are both thematically and politically driven. I did not compare Shin to Godzilla vs. Megalon or Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla because there's hardly any overlap between them, certainly not enough to justify a full in-depth breakdown. From what I've seen, nobody else has, either, because these differences are recognized as significant enough to preclude such a thing. Differences matter, and they should be taken into account.

@@omniviewer2115 the issue is that it depends on what elements you're comparing. GxK and GMO are indeed different films, but except for that certain video, the comparisons made by critics of GxK that I've seen are regarding the structure of the plot. One is much more tightly constructed, where the other one simply isn't. You can say that's an artistic choice, but by that logic so was Twilight's CGI baby and I don't see anyone defending it with the same logic of "it's meant to be that way". We judge films based on the product itself, after all, even if you're comparing films. You can take into account what it *wants or is trying* to be to, like how Shin and 2014's Godzilla are both serious films trying to explore how Godzilla in our world would look like, but at the end of the day you're still mainly looking at the same main elements of plot structure, characters, and overall delivery. I once saw a reviewer analyze two completely different films (Independence Day and War of the Worlds), but the main analysis of both was on the plot structure, characters, and overall delivery. And look, you can enjoy a film for your own reasons, sure. But to then whirl around and tell anyone criticizing it that they can't or they shouldn't because it's meant to be fun is actively contradictory to that element. Lots of movies can be dumb fun and still be tightly structured by the plot. Just look at the Mission Impossible franchise or Top Gun. These films can have a fair degree of dumb action, but they're not as riddled with plot holes, or have issues with the characters. Like... I think the *biggest* plot hole or plot contrivance in Top Gun Maverick was how Maverick more or less stole his F-18 after he'd been put out of the mission. Compare that to GxK having a whole gauntlet for Kong with healing properties even though it was apparently an abandoned project, *and* the weird inconsistency of the Scar King being "trapped" but then freed but then still trapped I guess cause he was waiting for Kong for some reason (I don't think that was ever explained), and... Yeah, it's *fun to see* still, but the response to people pointing out these issues shouldn't be "it's meant to be like that".

@@omniviewer2115 I'm not saying that Godzilla minus one and Godzilla x Kong's story, tone or deeper meaning should be compared directly. Them both having Godzilla is the whole point. Just because Godzilla x Kong was going for a lighter ton with it's monsters and fights doesn't mean they can't be compared to how Godzilla was done in Godzilla minus one. Especially with them both being released within around a year of each other. Judging something on it's own merits is very important, but also considering something similar which has the same character is equally as important. I'm not saying it just has to be Godzilla minus one, It can also be previous films in the monsterverse, such as Godzilla vs Kong. Godzilla vs Kong 2021 was easily a better done film in almost every way. Having the weight of the monsters done realistically despite them doing "silly things at times" and having consistently well done animation. Also Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla has been compared to Gamera revenge of iris many times in the past, and I didn't hear any complaints then. Another thing is that you can hardly have Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla and Godzilla vs Megalon even close to being the same type of film in any way. Godzilla x Kong and Godzilla Minus one are both apples and can be compared with things they are similar in, that being Godzilla and how certain things are done or shown in the film. If Son of Godzilla and Godzilla 1954 had both been released within a year I would compare similarities despite their differences. Such as the Godzilla and Minilla design, or the camera angles and realism of the effects. At the end of the day Godzilla x Kong and Godzilla Minus one are both Godzilla films. They are destined to be compared to each other, but I think the comparisons should actually focus on things they both share. But if the human characters and story is just not well written in Godzilla x Kong, then Godzilla minus one can be used as an example for a film with good writing. And it can be talked about how that could be translated over to a film with a lighter tone, such as what was done with certain showa Godzilla films like Son of Godzilla where the human story is very well done.

@dfmrcv862 "Compare that to GxK having a whole gauntlet for Kong with healing properties even though it was apparently an abandoned project, and the weird inconsistency of the Scar King being "trapped" but then freed but then still trapped I guess cause he was waiting for Kong for some reason (I don't think that was ever explained), and... Yeah, it's fun to see still, but the response to people pointing out these issues shouldn't be "it's meant to be like that"." I have, from the very beginning, said that the gauntlet stuff is a buffet of contrivances, even with it being established at the beginning of the film. Thinking back, I'd call it the only major contrivance in GXK (I'll be addressing the rest of your line further on). That said, does it bother me? No. Any immersion breakage caused by that sequence is only temporary before the film resumes, and it does not detract from that which the movie does well. Once it's on, it's simply a question of what happens next. Sure, it could be better, but it doesn't break the film. The rest of your line about Skar King is easily explained entirely by what's presented onscreen. Yes, he was trapped, as explained in the movie. What was he doing since then? The imagery when we arrive in his domain/prison is our clue. The visuals we see should be familiar, as they have appeared in all manner of movies from The 10 Commandments to Black Adam. The slaves appear to be working in a quarry, which means they're digging. Clearly, they've been digging their way out. It doesn't take much in the way of mental gymnastics to surmise that digging out of a cave/prison/tomb is going to take a while, especially if there are hazards in the way like, for example, lava. Clearly, an opening has just been made, and the Skar King is sending out scouts to see how the landscape has changed. He remains on his throne because there's no need for him to leave yet. He only leaves once he gets word that the hidden Iwi city has been found. This is what prompts him to lead he charge, as it's clearly important to him that the Iwi be taken off the board so they can play no part in stopping him again. The fewer allies Godzilla has, the better. He wasn't "waiting for Kong", as you suggest: Kong was just a random upstart who wandered in and got put in his place. He's no threat as far as Skar King is concerned, but that's his mistake. All of that is based entirely on what the movie presents us. Are there still some specific details missing? Sure, but the overall picture still makes sense. Now take note of how I said all of that without saying that you "shouldn't (critique the movie) because it's meant to be fun". That's not my argument by any stretch. I do not believe that the movie should be immune to criticism, but the criticism itself should not be immune to counterarguments, either. If a point can be countered, I will counter it. If a point is valid, I'll acknowledge it, but I'll also say why I don't think it detracts from the experience. Does everyone respond that way? No, and it's likely due to how the discourse was affected by those different bad faith videos. This, however, will pass. And just to show you that I am entirely fair in this, I've also provided such counterarguments from those looking to critique G-1. A recent thread on TwiX lamented how the way Godzilla's name is introduced - with a soldier saying "It's Godzilla" and clarifying that he heard the legend from an Odo native - is clunky and too short. People said that there ought to be a scene earlier in the film where we see the soldier learning the legend, maybe even seeing it at a gift shop selling Godzilla trinkets (yes, that was a real argument). Clearly, we are in the post-honeymoon phase where people are looking for negative things to say about B-1, but this in particular felt like an off-base nitpick, so I countered it. Firstly, the brief exposition works fine as-in in context. The only relevant questions are 1) what is that monster? and 2) where did the guy who answered question 1 hear that? Anything else can wait because there's a freaking dinosaur approaching. Furthermore, the gift shop suggestion was a ridiculous suggested "fix" for a multitude of historical reasons. Finally, regarding the inclusion of a scene earlier...well, there is no earlier. G-1 is about Koichi Shikishima; we follow him from the start and learn things as he learns them. Only a handful of scenes break away from his perspective, but those are done out of necessity. Arguably, a scene that exists purely to add more exposition to Godzilla's backstory is not vital and would only prolong the opening, so the movie begins exactly where it ought to and delivers information exactly when it ought to. Anything further would require more viewings of both G-1 and GXK to make sure I've got the details. Either way, though, I still stand by the idea that they are both well-told. They're just told differently.

Ngl bad comparison cuz while the sw trilogy is a literal continuation of the older films, the monsterverse is its own universe inspired by the Showa era

@Lilfuu-yk1bd Both series share the same defenses and similar writing quality, the comparison is more than fair. Both series started out with better writing that has only gone downhill with every sequel (Barring Empire). Both ended up devolving into mostly flashy fight scenes, loud noises, and special effects.

@@Lilfuu-yk1bd While it's true that Star Wars is different to GxK, the arguments being made in defense of GxK are more or less the same, but with much less standing. "it's dumb action fun" isn't really a valid argument for the plot holes. Saying "it's supposed to be like that" doesn't really help it either if people want a tighter story. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, but like... don't pretend saying "it's meant to be bad" suddenly contradicts the criticism.

@@jeggsonvohees2201and what's wrong with that? the entire point of going to movies specially BLOCKBUSTERS are to give people ESCAPISM and SPECTACLE, Something the audiences can enjoy and have fun with, hell massively successful movies like SPIDERMAN NO WAY HOME, AVENGERS INFINITY WAR or END GAME are basically what you describe as being mostly flashy fights, loud noises and special effects? yet all 3 movies have massive plot holes and plot conveniences despite having decades of set ups and nobody seems to bother criticizing those films for having the lower quality writing. you need to remove your 2014 glasses and move on, those days of realism and character emotional drama has long past the moment KONG SKULL ISLAND and KOTM hit the theaters, blaming GXK as if it ruined the franchise is hypocritical and disingenuous, and this isn't a defense for GXK as no movie is critic proof, every film has flaws and everything is subjective. but we all know that this isn't really about people defending GXK from criticism, it's people like you who still can't move on to the fact the you can enjoy both the serious and Fun aspect of GODZILLA.

My goal here is constructive conversation. I haven't been much in the GxK discourse, so I don't know what the arguments have been for or against it, but I fancy myself a defender of GxK (not as perfect but more good than bad). I personally do not see how it is same argumentation required and think it a bit of a hyperbole because of just what flaws there are in the sequel films. Sequel trilogy defenders have to justify character assassination of Han, Luke and R2 as well as massive offscreen unexplained worldbuilding issues to start. Then, you have inconsistent arcs for Finn (shooting stormtroopers gleefully immediately when a battle is what deprogrammed him) and Kylo (changing his morality each film and sometimes within the same film), retcons on retcons (Snoke, Palpatine, Rey's parentage, Luke wearing the robes of an order he denounced when she finds him, Leia being a Jedi), as well as terribly destructive breaks in the worldbuilding (the Holdo maneuver destroys every space battle, and TROS saying it was one in a million destroys its usage in TLJ). GxK, as far as I've noticed (and I welcome correction) has far fewer issues. Kong has an engaging arc that tracks with previous characterization. Suko has a great understandable arc that tracks from scene to scene. I would suggest that the film's intent is to portray those two as the primary cast, with Andrews, Jia, Trapper and Bernie as secondary cast with Mikael and Hampton as tertiary cast. If you view Andrews and Jia as the main characters, I don't see substantial moments of breaking character, as the plot accounts for the viewpoints they bring into the story (recognizing Iwi culture, explaining it to the others and having guilt and a desire for it respectively). I think if you accept that ESP is a thing, it smooths over potential issues especially longstanding ones like how Jia could sense Godzilla in GvK and how Kong could see much less communicate with Jia in that same movie. But again I haven't seen the arguments leveled against that plot point and cannot yet evaluate if I missed something. Bernie doesn't finish his arc, and I have issues with Trapper I'll get into in a moment, but given that I feel the intent was to have those characters secondary to Kong and Suko, their subplots need not finish so long as Suko does learn to trust Kong and overcome the Skar King. (I have heard two complaints about the characters. 1. Andrews and Jia's plot is by the numbers and predictable. I don't care; show me where it is inconsistent and I will stop defending it. 2. The people monitoring Godzilla speak in so much exposition; I would counter that it would be unrealistic if they remained silent, and their exposition makes sense as guesswork based on the information they have that just happens to be true) In terms of plot and worldbuilding, I'll get out of the way that the HE entry points changing from tunnels to portals is an issue and is bad. Technically, that's more a thing wrong with the entire Monsterverse since it cannot go a film without retconning that. If Godzilla in 2014 had access to the KOTM tunnels, he would have found the MUTOs faster (as for how he gets from Spain to Egypt so quickly in GxK, there you go. Those still exist even if they didn't show up on the GvK HE scans). If the HE worked like the tunnels in KOTM, the Skullcrawlers wouldn't be landlocked. GvK is closer to KSI but alas no Skullcrawlers. GxK is close to Monarch but frustratingly different, and Skull Island cartoon has humans capable of coming and going without craft but getting sick. It is impossible to make any installment in the Monsterverse with totally consistent HE rules, and I think it was an admirable effort to try to align more with Monarch, but it is still an issue. I don't have the time or capacity for a full run through of the plot and issues or good things. I will say that I am undecided on the Skar King's use of a crystal to control Shimo. The villain magically controlling a dragon is a common trope, and this is an admittedly clunky way of doing it. My defense would be "if you accept that ESP is a feature of humans and monsters, then the power hungry Skar King, given thousands of years would find a way to harness that power". If you have an argument that reveals instability in mine, please share. The lore change from Godzillas vs Kongs to Great Apes vs Godzilla is unfortunate but a figure like Skar King was inevitable given the throne room, and I am still parsing out whether or not we have any evidence that any other Godzillas featured atomic breath (only the axes' capability to harness the atomic breath suggests that). Making the Iwi native to HE and worshippers of Mothra and Godzilla, an enemy of the Great Apes seems like a retcon except the SI Iwi featured someone with Mothra markings (polytheistic religions in regional variations worship different creatures but acknowledge the pantheon). It also tracks with KSI saying the SI Iwi were initially scared of Kong until he started protecting them. There are issues here but not as bad as "Suddenly Palpatine returned". Well actually we do have Mothra Suddenly returning, and my defense of that is that she is the most magical and the one explicitly linked to ESP, and this movie shows us Fairy Mothra is once again an ability of hers so it makes sense that since we previously saw her dematerialize into energy that given the right push from ESP she would rematerialize from energy. Like I said, I have issues with Trapper. His flying back and forth in the HE in no time at all is contrived even if using the lightning bird things was a setup and payoff. The ramifications of his speedy roundtrip are that it precludes the rest of the movie from playing out naturally. Definitely flaws. I can't defend that. But my scale is a 1-10, and I'm arguing this is a 5

I guess no one else is, so I'll bite. You do understand that personally not thinking about a movie is not the same as actual reasoned arguments about quality, right? Your experience and opinion wasn't the hottest on the movie. That's perfectly valid. It doesn't follow that it makes the movie mid in anything else but your subjective assessment. I'm not saying the movie isn't mid, just that we can't arrive to that conclusion by talking about forgetting it and remembering Shin Godzilla. One of the people I took to see Minus One specifically told me days later that they hadn't stopped thinking about it. I don't say that as evidence that it is good, just evidence that people have different valid opinions and thus we need something other than those to arrive at the truth of the matter. Characterization, plot, theme, CGI, soundtrack, etc. those are the tangible features of a movie that we can objectively assess. I'm not claiming it's perfect in all those regards. Are you down with discussing those features here to see if the movie is actually mid?

@@josephgibson5902 ... You do realise literally every criteria we assess a work of art with is man made and base on certain person/s biases right? Your entire argument is basically, your bias is not relevant, lets argue around this bias instead. I clearly am talking out of my POV. I talk about my experience. I find Citizen Kane a tedious self righteous work, I am not going to sit here and try to make "critics" to agree with me. To me, Minus one is not memorable, (beside the god awful first appearance of Godzilla) And I am fine with it, I expected that I will not care for it much since I had already seen the creator's vision of Godzilla in that other movie he used Godzilla. So for one thing the presentation of zilla was just not my cup of tea. I find it hilariously baffling how less urgent this movie's disaster stricken Japan after Zilla's attack feels compared to the original Godzilla movie. This is Japan literally after the end of the war. We get nothing on it except off handed passing comments that are said so nonchalantly and pass on so fast you don't even register them. Now put that into perspective with the nuking japan subplot in Shin. There is a fucking urgent matter there, in Minus one we go months and years and life just continues as if nothing. We don't even see the protagonist fucking registering the craziness of the existence of Godzilla until after he sees it again. Like come on, he came eye to eye with the beast and nothing for like half the movie, and when we finally get something is a cheesy dream sequence and some off handed comments afterwards again. This movie has good acting for a japanese movie, and that is something I definitely give it credit for but that is like the only thing unique to this movie that I cared for.

@@wow1371 okay if you don't believe in objectivity, just say that. (Don't indicate that and then pretend you're making an argument that will sway me by focusing on one feature of the movie not by its own merits but again compared to Shin Godzilla) Yes, we all have biases and opinions; human beings are capable of tempering those for more fair rational discussions about the internal consistency of a movie. Your criteria are inconsistent; you are judging Minus One as mid by not doing stuff Shin Godzilla did, not by how Minus One did what it did. Minus One has a large gap in time because it is more concerned with exploring Japan rebuilding and Shikishima trying and failing to live with his guilt. He doesn't need to register the craziness because the focus isn't "Godzilla exists and that's probably significant in some sociopolitical sense to our nation" so much as "one man's guilt personified by a giant lizard.". If that is your standard though, you must dislike a vast majority of Godzilla movies, since the premise is usually "Godzilla has been around for a bit, let's not worry about why because he's either actively destroying us or saving us". Hmm let's also see. What's a possible reason why we go months and years without stopping Godzilla? Because there's nothing Shikishima can do in those moments?! It behooves him to try not to think about it, and there is nothing he can do to address Godzilla. Also it is more just one dream and vague offhand comments; there is a pervasive sense of dread and PTSD in Shikishima's actions and personality, and it is in really bad faith to misrepresent the film as you do. Lest you think I'm misremembering, remember the photos of the dead soldiers and how often the camera pans to those before the reveal of what those are (and don't say it being a reveal is an issue, because I'm looking at the movie critically for my assessments, and you're just rewatching Shin Godzilla to make your opinion) Let me clarify my standard here: consistency, as determined by a plot following its internal logic without breaks and characterization being consistent without contradiction. It's less important what a movie does than how. We're dealing with giant monsters, which means we have to concede that they will exist in this universe, but we can expect them to follow the rules that are set up and for the rest of the world to. We can talk about whether Noriko's survival is a contrivance or not. We can go through and see if Shikishima's arc works scene by scene and likewise for the other characters because that stuff is as objective as "Godzilla Minus One is a 2023 movie featuring Godzilla and X actors" if you actually use your brain, don't misrepresent the film for your bias and make arguments others can evaluate. If you aren't willing to do that, then bye Also, what the hell do you mean by "good acting for a Japanese movie" as something "unique to this movie"? There are many many Japanese movies with great acting in the Godzilla series alone. Even the movies I don't think have good writing generally have solid line deliveries around the board, but the upper echelon of Godzilla films such as the original have great writing, great characters and great acting

Whats funny is that the toxic fans that hate Minus One are the ones who always bring it up with “you just want another Minus One” or “the monsterverse isn’t supposed well written like Mid One”

@@justmenoah1729 I don't want another Minus One. I just want another really good Godzilla movie. No more stupid jokey low effort MCU Monsterverse.

🤡

@@matthewgramz3648 That would be really nice

@@matthewgramz3648I want them to fully utilize the technology we have to make something truly special. I dislike the Monsterverse because it could have been made with the same care and love as the Planet of the Apes trilogy. Minus One was good and all but we should be making stuff just as good with the resources at Legendary’s disposal.

Oh, kindly screw off.

The movie doesn’t suck, but it’s affect in the fan base is not preferable

​@@sabretoothtiger4314The people that are using Minus One as an excuse for the Monsterverse being bad do not grasp nuance well enough to make something as good as Minus One or even as good as the Monsterverse. There is no amount of blame that we should put on Minus One, which honored the series before it by featuring a mix of inspiration from the original film, King Kong vs Godzilla (the imagery of a man running into destruction to save his love interest from a train wreck), GMK (fairly obvious), Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla (Shikishima being in many ways similar to Akane) AND the Monsterverse (shots straight out of G14 and GvK). It's not even as if there's some ideological undertone that's anti Monsterverse that people are latching on to; Yamazaki made the single most respectful Godzilla movie possible and people are using it as an excuse to be disrespectful

@legendarygodzillatheking3049 you're making two separate claims there, because it does not logically flow that one could prove the other (if the movie is bad, that wouldn't destroy the discussions, and if it ruined discourse, that wouldn't make it inherently bad). It's good to have your own opinions and not trust what random people on the Internet say, but you gotta propose an argument for why first it did ruin the discourse and secondly does suck. An objective argument against Minus One's quality will be difficult to construct. It is an almost airtight script that flows from cause and effect with most plot points (the established motivations of characters inform their actions, most generally in proximity to Shikishima with what help they give him, their caution, etc, as you can see with Noriko's sacrifice, the neighbor's help and Noda's trust) and sprinkles in setups in the beginning for payoffs later (Noriko's picture) without negatively affecting the pacing. The few conveniences would be that specific building in Ginza not being destroyed and so allowing Shikishima to live, the editing making it unclear if the tugboats hooked up to the ships super fast or if there was just offscreen time, and Shikishima being able to fly with no issues after getting a large black eye. None of those are impossible and it is within the range of suspension of disbelief without further explanation. The only thing I would classify as debatably a contrivance is Noriko's survival because without explanation later, the solutions are pretty large inferences. If you accept that it is a Godzilla cell on her neck, then you can suppose it healed her. I would say Skar King's crystal in GxK functions similarly. If you accept that monsters and humans are capable of ESP and that Skar King is the type of villain to want a mind control crystal, it doesn't necessarily need explanation as to how he got one. But it's still an inference. One contrivance doesn't make a movie bad. If you can point out more in Minus One or rebut whatever ones people have erroneously found in the Monsterverse, then that will serve as justification for your claim that Minus One sucks

Yet you can't say why it sucked, you can't say what the Monsterverse did better, and I'm pretty sure if you did, it'd just be something like "I didn't like it because too many humans", am I in the ballpark?