I have the APC9K, MPX, SP5, Scorpion, and Stribog. If I only could have one, it would be the APC9K. Dont forget mag cost. APC9’s can take glock mags, which most of us have a ton of. MPX is a great gun, but you have to factor in the very expensive mags. Scorpion in order to get it to the level of a APC or MPX, you have to dump a lot of money into it, and at that point should have just bought the APC/MPX. Not knocking on the cheaper guns, they are good and if that is all you can afford and do not plan on doing any upgrades, then for 90% of use it is solid.

The Marine Corps procurement process is shopping the Army's surplus stores.

Was the MP5 actually *adopted* by the US military, or merely *purchased* by special operations? It's a subtle, but very *real* difference - something that is formally *adopted* is available through the normal supply chain, using normal "Big Military" budget dollars. Something that is merely *purchased* by a SOCOM unit has to be paid for with unit "discretionary funds". A perfect example (albeit not a gun) is one I'm super familiar with - parachutes. Special Forces around 20 years ago wanted a new steerable static line parachute, because the MC-1 wasn't doing as well in jumps into mountains, and Big Army was dragging their feet developing a replacement. So SF bought a Forestry Service smokejumper canopy (the FS-14) and mated it to the existing harnesses and stuff they were using for the MC-1 and T-10, and called it the SF-10A. These had to be paid for out of the discretionary funds, leaving fewer dollars for "cool guns", "language training", and a bunch of other "snake eater" stuff SF needs outside normal logistics channels. Well, Big Army saw the canopy SF was using, realized it did everything they wanted for the MC-1 replacement, and took the canopy assembly and mated it to the new harness and stuff for the (also being developed) T-10 replacement, and formally adopted the combo as the MC-6. Well, about 15 minutes after Big Army formally adopted the MC-6 (and literally, it uses the exact same canopy and riser assembly - from the quick release canopy release assemblies at the shoulders on up, they're interchangeable), SF declared all their SF-10As (including the 100% interchangeable spare canopy assemblies) as surplus and sold them. Because they could roll every single dollar from those surplus sales right back into their discretionary budgets, and order complete MC-6 rigs as replacements through normal supply channels on Big Army's dime. So they literally sold complete parachutes that in many cases had never even been taken out of the manufacturer's box as "obsolete" and also replaced the spare "obsolete" canopy assemblies with "officially adopted" canopy assemblies that are 100% identical (they even have the same NSN for the canopy assemblies). Because thats how Congressionally mandated acquisitions rules work. It would have been *illegal* for Big Army to just say, "Hey, since we adopted the same equipment as standard that you guys already bought with discretionary funds, we'll "refund" your discretionary budgets for the cost of the identical equipment and change the logs to call them 'Big Army' equipment." I think the MP5 and MP5SD guns in inventory were the same. Officially purchased and issued, but never officially adopted - so the dollars that paid for them are dollars those units couldn't spend on other "Cool Guy" stuff they need to perform their missions that the regular military doesn't need.

Clint great channel. Excellent job keeping the community informed and the humor is excellent!

If u have shot a APC9 u will know exactly why they chose it… Swiss craftsmanship. They are amazing.

The military branches tend to do things different and set in their ways, they think their approaches are more correct than the other.

Thank you! Love your channel.

Group Coalition had a good podcast with B&T. It sheds a little more light on how they won the Army contract.

After extensive research and reviews, I've concluded the APC9K Pro is for me, once I set the $ aside. That's without shooting one, though I will shortly be trying out the GHM9 a trusted friend highly recommends. But I don't understand why you guys called the APC9k Pro a "simple blowback" as it has that hydraulic buffer... ?

Love my GHM 45. Beautifully built piece of kit.

Yes, I actually own a B&T APC. I did not take the plunge on one though until the 10mm version came out. I feel like it’s the perfect caliber to actually justify using a PCC. With hot loaded Underwood rounds, it easily outperforms 300 blackout SBRs. 10mm is making a huge comeback in popularity these days, and it should be offered in every PCC on the market in coming years (if these companies are smart)

APC9K Pro…Currently own and shoot. Smooth, accurate and runs flawlessly.

Seems they should have just gone with a 10 in 300 blk instead. Compact and hits harder but still quiet with more range

Speaking of B&t can you do a video on the tp9 that would be awesome! I've been looking for a good video on it thanks

B&T APC9 PRO has buffing system back of the blowback systems you forgot to mention that.

Hey guys, love your work. What is that mounting system called you use to mount your guns behind you on the wall? I have a store style slat one where you rock in metal hanger things (like the kind used on verizon stores for shelving) tyia

Depends on application, it is built like a tank, and has the least gassing when suppressed. I have one and a suppressor for it, very expensive setup, but I don't regret it for a second. It feels so good, especially supressed.suppressed. Oh, and coming from the service as well, I've shot a shit ton of shit. One must have uprade is the safety spring that makes the safety easier to flip, it's like $5. Also, please do a video looking at which PCC's are least and most gassy when suppressed.

Army Spec Ops used the MP5, all versions, for 15-20 years, until the M4 came out. They kept the MP5 in service, but used the M4 for purposes where it was the better platform. My first weapon in 1985 was the MP5 and I loved it!

Mp5 was used by military police srt. We swapped over to m4 around 2000-2001. Not sure when it was adopted by srt but my first fiream assigned was an m60 and when i tried out for srt and began training i was issued a mp5n. HUGE difference.

you bring up a good point with similar platforms and i have a banshee .45 myself but it has trouble running steel and surplus ammo and i'm wondering if the APC9 has similar issues. would you be willing to do a follow-up video on brass vs steel with the APC9?

With the scorpion being a clamshell design that is held together with screws I can 100% understand why the military didn't want it. Also I'm a B&T fan, but you're right I've never shot one or own one... yet. Though I guess I'm not foaming at the mouth wishing death upon those who question the greatness of B&T.

You say scorpion not for military use… Insert - Czech Republic military into the chat

Exactly the CMMG is my cup of tea (reliability & price point) but cuz of the AR pattern the buffer tube makes it less of a traditional subgun to me. Additionally the lack of a side charging handle on any of their stuff is huge bummer for me

How about a shoot off Scorpion vs Stribog?

A company here in Texas, Quarter Circle 10, known for AR style PCCs did compete in the Army trial. They specialize in producing AR lowers that use Glock, MP5, and Colt 9mm mags. However, they were not modular enough.

I've noticed you never mention shooting the MPX suppressed? Have you ever even shot it suppressed? I've heard it's gassy

Every gun y’all talk about ima gonna add to my wish list, cause everyone so far been clean especially how Hal give real buyer feedback

I had to laugh when he pulled out the Stribog. 🤣😂

Angstadt arms MDP-9 should have been chosen. Roller delayed and uses the HK MP5 barrel. Looks incredible.

"Clint here today." "Alek here today."

The Ghm9 gen 2 versions can have glock lowers, and you can change the grip as well. You got a tri lug and thread pitch end for silencers. Oh and you have a high quality manufactured Swiss product. Not going to ignore how expensive the gun is but it’s a solid Pcc for sure

Love your videos, gents. Was super pissed after the presidential election last year. (Still am!) Picked up a coyote APC9 Pro with some sweet accessories to make myself feel better lol. It’s crazy expensive, but is a tank and a shooter. Not one failure either. I love that thing. 🦅🇺🇸

I have one in tan with a acog micro. It’s the sweetest thing I’ve ever held 🙏🏽

The CMMG delayed axial blowback gives accuracy, reliability and soft shooting comparable to the MP5 mixed with AR ergonomics and modularity.

Watching this made me think about the vector and it's recoil system. Does anyone know why it hasn't been used in larger calibers? Is there a patent, tolerances, or because it would need to be more towards the front of the rifle to help with recoil? Just my first thoughts, but I don't know if any of those are why.

Scorpion: you're correct on the $ for upgrades. What I would really like to see is CZ/Colt make a AR9 pattern SMG for the civilian market. And you don't have to dump $ into it like the Scorpion. CZC 9 (Mamba) They have the technology & QC to do it IMO. Currently awaiting a lower receiver for a 45ACP Banshee.

What is as compact as a APC9 K Pro and including everything out of the box? I just did not buy it until now because my USW-A1 is more suitable for what i expect from a "hide it everywhere 125m" gun.

As far as the lwrc I'd like to know the serial numbers in which they fixed the issues.. I've had it two weeks and still haven't shot it yet, we will see soon enough.

I just bought a cz scorpion for 1300 that came with magpul grip, upgraded safety selector, and the sb tactical folding brace. Nothing needed outside of the box, except optics and a light if you choose.

I'm not sure about the government connections within their production, But CMMG has the most modular PCC in my opinion with the Banshee. It's a reliable and low recoiling system, it is literally an AR, so every soldier already knows how to use one, and its offered in whatever caliber you need (including rifle calibers like .300AAC and 5.7) and they accept the most affordable magazines from every caliber. When you have that option for literally half the price, and all of your attachments for rifles also work with this system with no modifications, I don't see the point of the B&T or its price. And while their stuff may be nice, we already have HK and FN overbuilding and overcharging. We don't need another one.

I’ve got an MPX-K (with the Timney trigger) as my truck/backpack gun. Was looking to the APCG-9K Pro as an upgrade to it given its more compact size and lighter weight. However, after watching this video, I am now wondering if it really is an upgrade. What can you say about it? Is it worth the upgrade or should I just stay out with the MPX-K?

I’m just surprised Sig hasn’t created a 9mm MCX Rattler LT upper, and just turn that into their go to modular 9mm gun. The military is eating the Spear lineup up.

I'd love to have a apc9 pro but the mpx k is one of my dream guns!

Idk, if your only gripe with the CMMG Banshee is the overall length of the firearm there are foldable AR stock attachments that get you the compact-ability you’re looking for

Love my limited APC9k Pro, but love all my sigs and the other PCCs I have but I agree the APC9k pro is what I would keep if left with only one

Look at that scar in the back. I think I’m in love!!

Out of all of those, I’d love the MPX, is that the K or Copperhead? I’d love the K! The Stribog had hit and miss reliability issues, I wanted to like it. The MPX k had muzzle device issues but I think that’s fixed, I’ll admit, I’m kind of a gun snob. I do know there have been improvements to the Stribog.

I think the right sub gun would be bullpup based to give you the advantage of like a 10inch barrel instead of like a 5in., but have same length.. Have the magwell be located in the pistol grip..

Whats up guys, great informative video. I wanna be a grasshopper mouse, they kick ass...

I definitely chose the GHM9 over the APC. I couldn't justify the price over the GHM9.. both brace system I wanted were an additional $500.00 So I went down the path of $1,450.00 plus the $500.00 over $2,400.00 plus the $500.00 The buffer system is practically identical -_- Yes the APC9 has a bigger hydraulic buffer on the end plate over the smaller buffer on the GHM9's bolt.. Honestly not a HUGE difference in felt recoil. And any one who says other wise is full of it. Both lowers if for the Factor B&T .. or glock have the same trigger.. same ambi bolt hold / release and I'm talking about the GEN ( which is the GHM9 I bought) All in all my GHM9 also dose shoot great especially when I 3 lug my Wolfman on it. And yea.. I bought the Stribog A1 with the flat face trigger that has a sweet trigger break and even better reset over the B&T's for the fraction of the price. Which also runs great with my Wolfman. On top of that, I have the option of dropping my Stribogs barrel to 6 inches VS the factory 8 which will definitely balance out the wepon with my Wolfman on it. Also if I so desire I can buy HB industry's short stroke buffer to reduce that felt recoil which in all honesty it's hell of a lot better then most 9mm PCC in my opinion. I honestly think most, not all but most ppl that say they're B&T fans don't really own one. They're just following a hype because it's an expensive gun so it must shoot rainbows and lasers off the muzzle.

A military SMG is pretty niche. In civilian use, a PCC is superior to a SBR for most applications. A civilian engagement is within 50 yards against an opponent that is unlikely to be wearing armor and doesn’t have the objective of holding or taking ground. If you’re a civilian, a 9 mm hollow point is lethal enough that firing multiple rounds at something is going to address the problem as well as any other firearm. Therefore, you gain a lot if you can manage the firearm better and a slightly larger operating system, like a CMMG isn’t an issue…it’s actually advantageous to have something for the extra point of contact. For military use, I would think you always default to an SBR configuration. Your weapon is served from the same logistics. A 556 loses a ton of accuracy and effectiveness out of a short barrel…but it’s still going to do better than a 9mm if you restrict yourself to FMJ ammunition. So, what the military wants a SMG for isn’t the same thing as what a civilian wants a PCC for. What it looks like is, the US Military is trying to issue as few handguns as possible, because they aren’t effective combat weapons. So, as a comparison, a military SBR and a civilian PCC are roughly comparable in terms of when they’re deployed. A military 9 mm SMG is best compared to a civilian micro-9 concealed carry handgun. If you think of it that way, you can see why the army chose that weapon. They likely don’t expect it to be used with a stock. It’s a PDW that you issue a soldier where a civilian would be carrying a pistol. That is why the CMMG and Scorpion wouldn’t work. Both have a minimum length over what you would want.

None of these other guns are nearly as compact as the APC9K.. it has to be small enough to carry under a coat, something that can barely be done with anything larger than an MP5K, MAC-10, or Micro Uzi. I have no doubt the military will end up purchasing more than the 1000 units initially planned. I'm surprised that the army didn't buy the version that uses M17 magazines, but they might decide that later.

Meanwhile the MP5 is looking at all these options and thinking "bless their hearts".

I’ve had a Sig mpx k, HK sp5k, B&T APC9 Pro and 10Pro. Love my sub guns but ditched the mpx k and sp5k. Wasn’t a B&T fanboi until I shot them. Now I need the Apc 45 Pro to my collection.

Have you guys shot that B&t ? This isn’t a dig on the scorpion but there is zero comparison. The apc like is far superior.

Yes, I own an APC9K Pro SBR. And yes, I shoot it regularly. I do really like it but I am not fanatical about it LOL

Best gun channel 💯🔫💥🐍🇺🇸

why alek did not join yesterdays challenge?

I own an APC9 Pro and I wouldn't say that I'm a "B&T Fan"

Since you brought up the stribog again. I sold my stribog to get a APC9 pro because of the money I had into my stribog and was planing on putting into it, I was not far off of the price of the Apc9.

Why refer to the APC9 pro as just a blowback gun? The hydraulic buffer is worth noting because it takes a simple system to the next level. And that's another selling point.

I think the SIG MPX Coperhead was also in the trials.

Remember the North Hollywood shootout? 9mm was useless against the robbers body armor.

you can get a Scorpion, with all the HB or gearhead works goodies you want and a suppressor for the price of the APC 9 Pro... however, I agree for legit duty, Id be concerned about how long the scorpion would hold up in desert conditions for example.

I was surprised they went with a simple blowback and Im sure huge kickbacks where involved. CZ assumed they couldn't enter the P07 to the handgun trials as they assumed it was for striker fired pistols only but out of any if them I prefer it and it's my favourite 9mm double stack with a polymer lower, if no kickbacks and if it was entered it would have won, since cz owns colt it would have helped and also the manual if arms x it's not so different from the M9. As for the US army SMG I have no idea if it's just small numbers, as for me I would go with the MPX any day if the week. They should just have made a modular system so 1. You have a chassis system for the pistol or just a slightly bigger handgun that can accept a stock. Topics. Select fire and double stack mags. I'm sure most will stick to using short ARs due to ammo availability. People who moan about .300blk forget a few things 7.62x39 is not a NATO or western caliber, it works very well out of a short barrel, it's easy for ammo plants to change to it and it's just a barrel change. The new subsonic .338 round that uses a 10mm case looks very good for subs at short and long distance but having too many calibers just makes things a mess.

I like my MPX. I would like my Stribog A3 if it were more reliable. I've been waiting for alternate magazine lowers to come back in stock as I think it is all about the bad magazine. I live in a region of the country that doesn't let me have standard capacity magazines, so the updates aren't available for me and I already have all the magazines for the alternate I want. I'm not excited about this B&T.

I feel like SIG could make an SMG with magwell in the grip (for compactness) using P320 fire control group.

Stribog and APC from the same part of the world? Like Kuba and the USA are the same part of the world.

getting an bt in 10 mm soon, bt makes very good stuff

Room clearing is best done with a hand grenade and shotgun or MK18 for clean up.

300BLK is a great caliber for short barrels, offers more power, has subsonic option...

Why would you not trust polymer at this point? HK pretty much showed us its battle-proven with the G36.

Requesting, if/when someone wins the give-a-way (awesome & generous of you guys),... do you also send a box of ammo too? asking b/c .45acp is near impossible to find these days.

I wonder how many guys stopped the video at 9:00... to go check out videos on Grasshopper mouses eating Scorpions?

When are they giving away that colt python in the background? Is it just me wondering? 🤔

I dont understand why they keep comparing pricing on the Scorpion upgrades. You can take a scorpion or a stribog and buy upgrades and optic and still come under the base price of a GHM9 or APC9. Not to mention the B&T only comes with one Mag. Add the brace plus 2 mags and an optic and you are way over $2k.

🔥 Burn 🔥

'Bout damned time. SOC boys will appreciate not having to fork out for their auto secondaries.

FYI the US Army paid less than $1800 for each APC9. Navy has a huge budget too

MPX is how I would have went. I will go on to say that if the Army would have told Sig Sauer the want a MPX that took a P320 mag that would have made it and higher capacity mags also. The cost to the Army is no where near what the civilian market cost is. They are getting the M17 for close to a 100 dollars a unit.

Its funny they talk about price, pretty sure since its the Army buying a lot of them the price per unit goes down plus B&T now has the parts/repair for all of them for a number of years.

There was also the S&W M76 during Nam.

A mag in grip configuration gives more barrel for size.

Is that the new government giveaway ?

yes they should have went with the Hi point Yeet Cannon.

I honestly wish Sig Sauer would make an MPX that took P320 magazines like the new Mk18 does. They could also make a conversion kit for existing MPX too. Makes sense to me.

If I could have it in my state I would go with the Stribog with the roller delay and glock mag lower.

What if every active duty infantry had the choice to buy their own standard issue fire arm

I think all of these are ****ing dope though

CZ Scorpion is the Glock of the PCC bar non!!!!

I was doing security in africa and I used a AK. But then I got my hands on a mac-10 9mm and I truly fell in love with it. So when I came back home I got one and I've been using it ever since then. I've trained with it and I'm better with it than an AR rifle. I love the SMG more than a rifle.

I find the Glock 34mos in a recover 2020 chassis fills my needs and using 33rd mags with their mag holder gives me 66 ready to go

To all the newbs, BUY ONCE CRY ONCE. You will spend way more money if you don’t get what you want the first time.

Realistically safety, grip and mag release is under $100 if you want a hang guard you’re still well under the price of a ghm 9

Straight blowback is more reliable than roller delay with less moving parts… B&T also tuned and tamed the operation cycle more than a standard ar15 attempt, or mp5 clones.

I own an apc9 pro and still think these videos are funny 😆

I used the MP5 as a duty weapon on the CENTCOM PSD team in 2000-2003

Can you please do a top 5 optics that a SCAR 17 won't destroy. And included some for the poors (me)

M3 Grease guns for life! Good enough for Stormin' Norman.

9mm PCC should never be $2k. Unless it has gold plated parts.