Thing is, there is very little competition from AMD so far this gen, and that is unfortunately why Nvidia has these ridiculous prices. Nvidia have released 7 GPUs so far, and AMD only 3, if you dont count the SI-only 7900 GRE. I really hope AMD steps it up so we can have more options this gen, as well as compete with Nvidia to keep prices in check. The 4060 and 4060 Ti were a real slap in the face, and nothing will justify those 2 GPUs. I just already fewl bad for the 4050 and 4050 Ti 🤦

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews 4060 and 4060Ti *are* the 4050 and 4050Ti. Same way the 4070Ti was supposed to be 4080 12Gb, but Nvidia decided not to anger their high-end customers. To be fair AMD does pretty much the same thing with prices. I hope people won't cave in and let all those useless low and mid-tier cards rot on the shelves until the price drops are very substantial. =/

Yeah, I talked about the 4060 and 4060 Ti in the video, and not only are they terrible value, they actually lose to their previous gen counterparts in some titles. People are right to be angry about that, and I agree, those should gather dust or act as paperweights or doorstops until they drop to a much more reasonable price. Maybe replace the stickers with the correct naming while they’re at it

You have a point with pricing and specs, especially at the low end with the 4060 and 4060 TI, but the DLSS3 tech is impressive and works well. Moore's law is slowing down quite a bit, so "trickery" like DLSS3 to increase performance despite semiconductors not advancing at the same rate as prior years is most welcome to me. I would much rather have DLSS3 than not have it, as the alternative would be....what, some small extra percentage performance increase if those transistors were used for traditional performance? Not very compelling when DLSS3 can nearly double your framerate at the cost of a small amount of input latency.

@@arnham At this generation they just cut the core specs of anything lower than RXT 4080 and tried to sell DLSS 3 instead of actual performance.

Thanks, appreciate the explanation!

And it also gives you vac ban in cs2 as a bonus

@@user-yv6bf4ef6g That was only anti-lag+, because it injected directly into games at the driver level for better optimization. Doesn't affect regular anti-lag.

I can fully appreciate the issues surrounding frame gen, like pricing, and no performance improvements over last gen on the lower end cards except for AV1 and Frame Gen etc. But I find the tech itself pretty good.

Maybe because it takes time and money to develop frame generation technology? Lmao. You think God is just delivering them technical advancements every 2 years? They invest hundreds of millions in developing this tech. If you want a cheaper GPU, you can still shop the 20, 30 series GPUs and all the of AMD products. To cry about the 40 series not being cheap enough is weird when there's already so many great GPUs on the market, more than there ever has been any other time in history of gaming.

@@thecooljohn100 Yeah, I find it baffling as well. A lot of time went into R&D for this tech, and that's a lot of money. Gotta recoup it somewhere. Sure, AMD is doing it for *free, but I reckon it's to try and win some marketshare. People are constantly complaining about Nvidia's business practices, but the truth is, no corporation is your friend. They are all in it to make money.

My problem is that now games think that having Frame gen is an excuse to have low-performing games in the first place. It is not being used as a tool to make an average-performing game perform at high frame rates, it's now being used to make badly performing games perform at 60fps. I've tried a 4090 at my friend's house, and for a lot of games without frame generation on, it can't do much above 60 at ultra settings.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews That is one hundred percent true, but that does not mean that we can't criticize them. Knowing that they are only out to make money doesn't make their price gouging any less contemptible.

Appreciate the watch and the comment! This video almost didnt happen, but glad I published it :)

A nice comment on a controversial topic? Unheard of! Really appreciate the comment, and glad you could find some use for the video. Enjoy your new laptop!

Hey man. Just got mine as well. Having a blast!

@@contemplatingrain2380 awesome! I won the July Lenovo giveaway (much to my surprise) and I’m just waiting impatiently for the shipping notification.

I just got my Lenovo T7 with the 4080 and I7 13600k and the things a beast. Love it.

Appreciate the kind words, thanks!

Yeah, some people are definitely more sensitive to input latency than others. It sounds like you are one of those that are more sensitive, so the best is to be very selective with this tech and use it in games where input latency doesnt matter, like Diablo 4, or MSFS or something similar.

Agreed. It feels like walking around in cement shoes

Yeah, that's totally fair. Also, snake oil is such a funny term hahaha.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews well the term snake oil is heavily derived from salesman selling fake or misleading products. Nvidia selling frame generation as "real" frames (quantities that reduce input latency, the most notable benefit from high frame rates) can be directly attributed to snake oil in that sense. At least I personally consider high frame rates to only be for feel not looks, I can play 60fps elden ring all day with controller but the second you hand me a mouse I'll FEEL the 60.

@@704pat Yeah, agreed, their marketing around this can be very misleading. I understand the term snake oil, just find it a funny term haha!

Appreciate the encouraging words!

Thanks, really appreciate the comment

Rift Apart is just such a good looking game, and it performs very well with FG. The game isnt that hard to run on higher end GPUs, and add FG then to the mix and you get a very good experience.

I found rift apart better without FG, was getting strange frames stuttering when getting it on, didn't felt smooth

Framegen requires 60fps to fully work correctly

Because 40fps 120hz is 🔥 lol

Do you use gamepad or mouse?

Playing Ratchet & Clank PC now besides being a drop dead gorgeous game at 4k with ray-tracing cranked up the frame gen seems a good implementation

R&C performs very well. There are a few issues at the moment, like crashing and Nvidia Reflex causing performance loss etc, but a decent frame generation implementation, agreed. And the game looks SO good!

Exactly what I tried to convey. But this is the internet, no place for logic 😂

I don't play competitive eSports titles and was never good in 1st person shooters so I don't think I would feel the latency at all. Tech like this is perfect for me as I play mostly single player games.

@@deyandimitrov7287 yeah a lot of people just play single player and a lot just play online. I play a mix personally

@@deyandimitrov7287 I used to play Counter-Strike (Source and 1.6) competitive locally and I find that I can barely notice the additional input latency if my base FPS is above 60. It is there, but even in games like Cyberpunk it doesnt hamper my experience.

I know you left this comment a while ago but I wanted to see how well it aged when FSR 3 became more widely available. It's been eye-opening to see the same people on Twitter that complained about DLSS 3 now praise FSR 3. Literally the same people 🤣 I fully agree with your last reason - they got told it was bad and jumped on the hate train. It happens with so many things.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews my only problem with FSR, besides the fact it’s not as good as DLSS, is that game devs use it on console games when I believe there are more effective options for achieving target resolution and frame rate. Maybe FSR is part of that equation, but you have to wonder if they’re turning it on because they don’t know any better? They don’t realize the image is muddy now and there’s ghosting. In that case, and I’m talking specifically about Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, that some other settings would provide a superior experience.

Thanks, appreciate the comment! What is your monitor's refresh rate? I use NVCP Vsync on my 165hz panel and the added input latency is very minimal. What I have seen others do is cap it via RTSS, but at half your monitor's refresh rate -2. So if you have a 144hz panel, cap it at 70 fps. It should then prevent it from going over 140 fps, meaning you shouldnt get any screen tearing anymore with a G-Sync panel. Well, in theory, but we all know PCs like to give us the run-around every now and again.

Beats me. Unfortunately people like to complain nowadays just for the sake of complaining. Some people have provided good reasons why they dont like it, not that they should validate themselves. But jumping on a hate train just for the sake of it is beyond me.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews yeah fr. every single technological progress update has huge haters for no reason. even rtx STILL has haters like 5 years later, which is rlly sad because it's haters like that, that prevent tech from progressing past what they're conformable with

@@theorphanobliterator And the best is, these are options. Very few games force ray tracing on, so you can choose to enable it or not. Same with upscaling and frame generation, they are all options that you can choose to use or not.

Thanks, appreciate it

Interesting points. And yeah, I know AI is just a buzzword, but I used it for simplicity reasons, as a lot of my small audience are new to these types of tech. Would be interesting to know for sure regarding DLSS 2 though 🤔

Yeah, except you're wrong. There IS image recognition, there IS learning, there IS Ai compute at work. Ai is a spectrum of things, not just Skynet levels of intelligence. Nvidia is the world's leading company in Ai computing, so I'm going to take their stance on it before I do some armchair wizard's. They TRAIN their DLSS algorithm in-house using their own machine learning supercomputer. They then package that into a static generalized model that can be integrated into any game, slap a version number on it and that lets us know how much the DLSS algorithm was trained. There is no machine learning done on the hardware itself, I think that's where you were thinking Nvidia was claiming that but they have never said that. DLSS 2 was trained for longer and under more complexity than DLSS 1.0. DLSS 3.5 was announced to have been trained on five times more data than 2.0, and now also has Ai tensor core-fueled denoisers, therefore producing the best image quality yet. DLSS has temporal anti aliasing aspects but it is not as simple as "oh it's just TAA" because traditional TAA isn't trained by supercomputers and traditional TAA is usually used at NATIVE resolution. DLSS is inherently upscaling to a higher resolution, all while looking better than TAA at NATIVE res more often that not. DLAA is their newer native resolution AA tech and it is also better than normal TAA. Don't try to reduce the company's accomplishments just because you don't like their business practices. At the end of the day they are producing state of the art real time graphics technology. How they choose to price it can be discussed while continuing to respect the work they do.

You're basing your whole rant on the tired question of 'what is AI' They use convnets. That's it. That's all they mean when they say "AI based". Any and all "AI" these days is matrix multiplications deep down, and Nvidia engineers have repeatedly stated that modern DLSS is using convnets that have to be trained. The big difference between DLSS 1 and DLSS 2 was that 2 has a temporal component

Appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. Yeah indeed, at the time I wasnt fully clued up on exactly how reflex and Low Latency modes exactly did, but you explained it very nicely in Layman's terms. I really hope Anti-Lag+ makes a comeback as it definitely helps with FSR 3 frame generation. At the time of making this video only Nvidia had frame generation technologies available, but now that FSR 3 is here I am just happy that now everybody can try these for themselves. FSR 3 so far has had its issues, but in Avatar at least it works very well now. I had quite a few frame pacing issues initially but after a few patches and driver updates I have to say, it's pretty good. I personally like frame generation, if that wasnt obvious at this point 😀 But even I can admit when it shouldnt be used, like competitive shooters for example. But if you have a high refresh rate monitor then frame gen is really great to enhance motion fluidity at the expense of some additional input latency. Hope you enjoy that 4080 Super! I still ove my normal 4080, and dont see myself upgrading any time soon!

How much VRAM do you have?

It does use some VRAM, but it depends on the game. I saw anything from 500MB to 1.5GB, but that is usually offset by using DLSS Super Resolution. Running out of VRAM will definitely cause performance issues, but also, a lot of games can get by with say 8GB, but use 14GB if available. So the VRAM usage you see might not actually be what is actually required. Diablo 4 uses up to 21GB on a 4090, but still runs perfectly fine on a 12GB 4070 Ti for example.

Just tested this again last night and I saw an average extra usage of 1GB by only enabling frame generation. When I enabled DLSS super resolution on the Quality mode it reduced VRAM usage again by about 400MB, so in my experience you can look at around 500MB to 1GB additional VRAM usage, depending on the game and settings.

Same, also thought it a gimmick until I used it. Use it in most games now.

Interestingly enough games like bf2042 have their own inferior version of future frames rendering but I don't experience any feel of input latency. Probably because I'm at ovet 100 fps

tried it in Forspoken with AMD frame gen and honestly it feels great, just gonna wait on FSR 3 in cyberpunk to try it out since i dont have a 4000 series

@@cooltwittertag Yeah, I have a few videos up with AMD's FSR 3 as well, and it's pretty good for their first attempt. Just hope they can bring it to more games soon!

Appreciate it!

The premium for it sucks, but the feature is very good.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews yeah but it is what it is. I actually thought the latency would be extremely bad due to how people talk this topic but I’m relieved after watching your video.

@@tunahan6719 Yeah, I use it on a daily basis. The latency is only bad if your base frame rate is low. Other than that it really is awesome.

Yeah, it is great, and works better when CPU bound, but even if not CPU bound, use DLSS upscaling and then frame gen as it can make a huge difference. Recently finished DS remake, and game can benefit greatly from frame gen, even if to try and smooth over some of the stuttering. Wont help for shader compilation or traversal stutters, but stutters caused by your system generally sees a njce reduction when frame gen is used 👍

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews true, Jedi Survivor was virtually unplayable due to such bad stuttering. Frame gen, I think, took enough load off the GPU that it allowed for much smoother frame times and pretty much fixed the stutter.

If the implementation is good I can definitely use more aggressive upscaling settings. Cyberpunk 2077 does have issues with flickering lights to when using Performance at 4K, and Balanced at 1440p. But it does depend on the implementation. Going to be testing DLSS 3.5 (without ray construction) this week to see how it improves over previous versions.

u gonna make a video?@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews

@@SolarNeonFlare I definitely will

i want your eyes

​@@Mostly_Positive_ReviewsBro I use DLSS Quality in Cyberpunk 2.1 and its trash, a lot blurry, can you explain why?

Yeah, good tip. This makes game feel "floaty", which impacts the experience quite a bit.

Yeah, that's how I use it too, with G-sync and v-sync on, and the motion fluidity is really awesome then.

Yeah, very good explanation of what happens. I didnt test it in this specific video, but I think it was done in my 4070 Ti video on Cyberpunk, and there I showed that if your final output FPS is 60, the latency is terrible. But if your base frame rate is 50+ it can do good things for people on high refresh rate monitors.

Except that the DLSS (2) upscale DECREASES latency because it's faster than rendering a higher resolution frame. So you're partially wrong.

@@markjacobs1086 Seeing that the subject at hand was DLSS 3, I assumed he was talking about frame generation and answered based on that. But yes, DLSS 2 Super Resolution or upscaling does decrease latency

People play at 60-80ms in legue of legends of curse you can play a single player game at 50ms

​@@dante4111south africans also play on europe servers with 240 ping, that is all dog shit

Thank you, appreciate it!

The 2080 Ti at that price is a crazy good deal. Yeah, FSR 3 will be supported on Cyberpunk. FSR 3 launches Q1 2024 and I am very excited as well!

​@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews no, fsr3 launches next month in first two games and normal hypr rx (without AFMF/Amd Fluid Motion Frames) launches near this too, hypr rx with AFMF (in driver) which is rdna 3 only will be at Q1 2024

@@krspy1337 You are indeed correct, thanks for the correction 👍

Fair and valid point 😂😂

What are you doing coming here with good feedback, a fair argument, conveyed in a civil manner? This is KZfaq, there is no place for any of that here! I agree with some of your points too. This gen is just a mess when it comes to naming and pricing. Nothing is as it seems. But I get where you are coming from, and dont disagree. Appreciate the constructive criticism and feedback 👍

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Hah, the rarity of this type of exchange is why I comment on youtube threads maybe twice a year. Thanks for the kind words.

@@massivechonk920 Yeah, it is definitely rare. I've had some nice exchanges on here, but almost never with someone who disagrees with certain points. Usually when there's a disagreement it is name calling and being called an idiot etc. Glad to see people can still have different opinions and not have it forced down your throat in a condescending way. Have a good day bud!

The 4080 is dramatically more performant than the 3080. It costs more because it has much higher value. You can dress it up in nice words amd reasonable sounding language, but you're still just whining amd coping. $1200 is a perfectly fair price for the 4080. Btw, most people paid much more than MSRP for the 3080 for most of its existence, from 2021-2022

@@Wobbothe3rd Interesting how the author and me just concluded a nice back and forth about how rare it is to see even-tempered, reasonable disagreement on youtube, then you come in with this to essentially say 'Yeah this is why" As for people 'paying much more for the 3080', yes that was price gouging due to crypto. It is not a sustainable market for PC gaming, otherwise it would have been priced like that from the outset. Citing some of the most insanely priced years for PC gaming due to an artificial market as support for your argument wrt to 'value' today completely defeats your own point.

Thanks, appreciate it!

Yeah, I think it’s great. Some people have valid concerns and opinions after using it, and I can respect that. What gets to me is the people who never tried it talking it down.

I used to have the same issue, but I didnt do anything to fix it really, it just started working a few driver updates ago. Maybe try DDU in safe mode and then reinstall the drivers from scratch, see if that helps?

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I think in the past it did work for me.. it's not a big deal .. but I was just curious. Thanks

Yeah, exactly. I play Witcher 3 and Ratchet and Clank with a controller and the difference in input latency is imperceptible. With a mouse it is slightly more noticeable, correct. Well, that's my experience anyway.

Yeah, if your end result is 60 the input latency is quite bad. I showed this on my 4070 Ti Cyberpunk video a little while ago. When using path tracing and I got 20 fps or so I enabled FG and the latency shot up to just below 200ms. It stabalized at around 100+ ms, but it wasnt a good experience 😂

Majority definitely havent used it. Some concerns are valid, I had some very decent explanations in the comments from people with good points, but they are by far the minority. You not noticing 100ms latency also proves that some people are more sensitive to latency than others. I started testing the 4060 this week and it struggled with FG at respectable settings and the latency was very noticeable. But I also had others test the latency and they couldnt tell a difference. It really is good if used properly.

It's not the tech we hate its Nvidia rebranded 30 series and selling dlss3 and fg as an upgrade

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews also in games with really bad optimisation, it would just simply double your fps and make the spiky frame time graph smoother

@@abdalazeemal-mashaqba6600 good to know there's still rational haters out there, mostly I'm seeing are those saying FG is BS and etc

@@aperson8693 Yeah, in today's time with games being as poorly optimized as they are, frame generation really helps a lot, agreed!

Yeah, very much so, as half the frames would be generated, so you'd get worse latency than 30 fps without FG. I only know this because I tried something similar 🤣 I got around 110 fps but wanted to lock it to 120 using FG and a framerate limiter, and my latency more than doubled. Unfortunately when enabling frame gen, every second frame is generated, regardless if you only need 5 fps to lock it to 60. What you can do is enable FG at 55 fps, and then use vsync fast in Nvidia control panel. That way it wont lock the framerate to 60 fps, and it will try to prevent tearing caused by going over your monitor's refresh rate. It doesnt always work, but I have gotten vsync fast to work on my 4K60 monitor, and then it's a good experience.

So true. I just bought a 4060, video coming soon, but FG is not nearly as helpful on lower-end cards.

Yeah the starting fps has to be high. 60fps or more. Preferably 80-100. So that means you need at least 4070 with dlss upscaling to get around 80-120fps and then frame generation on top of that isn't too terrible

Yeah, definitely not going away any time soon. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment, much appreciated!

Except that the reason people hated it was for different reasons. DLSS 3 is hated because its only available on RTX 40-series cards making the RTX 20 and 30 series buyers lose out which is shtty. DLSS 1 was hated because it was sht. The image quality was just bad with heinous ghosting issues.

​@@ADunleavyit was like that because on 20 series if you would activate DLLs 3 your image would be blurry and even buggy on 30 series it would look better but slightly. that's why they didn't released DLLs 3 for other generations. DLLs was bad in 20 gen because 20 gen rtx cards had less efficient rtx cores and AI cores so raytracing performance was bad and quality of dlss was bad too and also they had to teach their ai how textures should look in most popular games so their new DLLs 2.0 would look better and perform good they did that ai learning thing on 30 series GPU to create frame gen soo it was time consuming for them to polish their features they wanted to work.

​@@piotrolina2670no that's not quite right. DLSS looks the same on rtx20 as rtx 30 or 40. Frame generation relies on optical flow processing which is too weak on the rtx30.

@@Wobbothe3rd yo I didn't know thanks

And 25% is on the high end, some games see a very minimal increase in input latency. But I realized a lot of people use it on 60hz monitors, or start with a too low framerate and want to achieve a final output of 60 fps, and then it's going to be terrible.

Until 3.5 released there was only 2 and 3, so wasnt wrong to call it as such. DLSS 3 is just a term though. DLSS 3 means a combination of DLSS2, Reflex and Frame Generation. That is not wrong. And DLSS 1 and 2 are Super Resolution, or upscaling. DLSS 3.5 does not always include frame generation either as ray reconstruction works on 20 series as well. In the end, DLSS naming is confusing and I tried to explain it as best as I could in layman’s terms

Hahaha, dont worry about the language, I am not a native english speaker myself. I agree with you here yeah, a lot of complaints have been people using it at 25 fps or on 60hz monitors etc. If you use it correctly the input latency is still there, but a lot less noticeable.

FG has definitely come a long way, but there are still some noticeable artifacts sometimes. For instance in Cyberpunk, the first time you draw a gun with "digital ironsights" it is slightly garbled for a second or so, but then it stabilizes. Stuff like that. It is much better than initially, especially in Spider-Man and MSFS. Spider-man's HUD was garbled in motion, but that doesnt happen anymore. Crosshair artifacts are not an issue anymore either, at least in the games I tested so far. A game migjt release with a subpar integration of FG where some of these things might be present, but it doesnt take long for it to get fixed in most cases. For Cyberpunk, the implementation is probably 98% flawless. It looks great, runs great, and you'll have to pixel peep to really see a difference with FG on vs off. There are some artifacts here and there, as explained regarding the ironsights, but they are very few and far between. Please note that this is only my perception / experience with it. Others might notice the artifacts more, but I dont, and use it in any game that has FG, except competitive shooters like The Finals and MW3.

If you go from 40 fps to 60 fps it feels pretty bad. If you go past 60 fps and cap it to 60 via v-sync or framerate cap it's not worth it in my opinion. I tried that on my 4k60 monitor and it felt terrible. It really is only to provide a high refresh rate output if you are already getting around 60 fps. AMD also advises to have at least 55 fps at 1080p before enabling FG, and 70 fps at 1440p or higher. In my Cyberpunk 4070 Ti video I showed this, and enabling frame gen when running at around 30 fps the input latency was close to 200 ms.

Couldnt agree more. As an option, these things arent forced on anyone, but those that want to use it, can.

Starfield actually feels very floaty indeed with FSR3 Frame Gen. Tested it on the 3080 earlier this week and I went back to DLSS without FG. Try enabling reflex in the game, and then also Nvidia Low Latency in Nvidia's control panel and see if it helps?

Not sure it’s money related, but a lot of detractors on these two videos of mine have never tried it, nor have a GPU capable of it. Some criticisms are fair, and you can clearly tell some people have actually tried it but didnt like it, and that’s fair. But you have to have at least some experience with it if you want to talk it down, otherwise your opinion matters not at all. I get that not everybody can just buy a new GPU every 2 years, I dont either, but nobody can say anything bad about it if they havent tried it.

Yeah, well put. Some people can feel the additional input latency, some cant, depending on the difference of course. Cyberpunk is a bit of a strange one to me, as with higher RT settings it does look blurry, but even without FG on my side. I thought it was my monitor at first so procured a 4k IPS panel to test, and while it does look a lot sharper at 4k, that blurriness is still present when high RT is used. I have since resorted to playing without RT, except for lighting, as it looks great then, and performance is also great. I dont have an OLED to test with, maybe VA and IPS panels just have a higher amount of blur in Cyberpunk, really not sure at this point. Either way, as you said, it depends on what you are able to perceive. If you notice the higher input latency then just dont use FG in that title. I use it in almost every title that supports it for a high refresh rate experience at 1440p. The only title I have disabled it is MSFS 2020 as I really dont mind 50-60fps there.

Bro does playing on an OLED screen appears way more better?

@@cashmoney2159 Yeah, an OLED screen does look good. It has near-perfect blacks so the contrast is exceptional. Couple that with HDR and ray tracing in something like Cyberpunk and you are in for a treat.

The reflex toggle becomes completely unavailable when enabling FG, so not possible to enable +boost unfortunately. I am busy with a video showing the differences between on and on+boost, obviously without FG as you cant change it there 👍

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Thanks for the answer. I tested it here on Miles and Ratchet and it is possible to change between the two options even with the FG activated, but I did not notice a difference in latency, only in the frame rate, which loses a little when activating Boost

@@Leo_Hidalgo Interesting, I'll have a look again at Ratchet, but I know in Cyberpunk it locks it completely, and other games as well. I might be wrong with Ratchet and will check Spider-Man again as I dont have Miles Morales. Thanks for letting me know. As for the lower framerate, that is typically what happens with +boost enabled. Thanks again for the heads-up with regards to being able to set it to on+boost, will check it out. I just assumed from the other games I have tested you cant change it. You learn something new every day.

I know, right. The horror 🤣🤣

Frame Gen in Ark Survival Ascended is absolutely necessary, game runs so poorly without it 😔

Yeah, if ever a game is going to need it I suspect it will be Starfield. Will be awesome with DLSS 3, agreed!

thats good news, i was worried about the rumors AMD would stop this tech from being used.

​@@jungleboy1 I don't think so, the pc market is important, and developers know that most gamers have an nvidia gpu of course these technologies will end up in amd sponsored games

Where did you hear about DLSS3 being 'open sourced'?

​@@massivechonk920it's on nvidia's development kit, for free.

I also believe it will get better over time. Look at what happened with DLSS 1. Hopefully FSR3 is good as well, will be testing as soon as it comes out.

I dont think it's input latency as this still happens at 300 fps without frame generation as well. This feels more like game or online latency as button presses arent instant no matter what. If you measure your input latency using the Nvidia overlay you'll see it's very low, even at 60 fps native.

I actually wonder if they'll push it to current consoles via a software update as it really is only a software solution that'll work great on the custom RDNA2 GPUs.

Sure, but if this is a reason they should be angry at the devs, not the developer of the tech. If the tech is used how it was designed it is actually very good.

Yeah, that's true and fair. It's not a bad card at all, just that the pricing sucks. But that's true for pretty much the whole 40-series unfortunately.

Yeah, some games work better than others, and I understand if people dont like it, I really do. But most arguments are just silly. Yours isnt as you give a good example why it isnt so good for you, and that’s perfectly fine. Auto might be something to explore 🤔

I did a video on Forspoken with FSR 3 as well, albeit a short one. You can download the demo for free on Steam to try it if you dont have the game yet.

Yeah, agree 100%. I really like it a lot, and hearing others' experiences with it differ so wildly from my own is interesting to say the least. Beast of a system you have there though!

When CPU bound the framerate wont increase when using DLSS super resolution as DLSS lowers load on the GPU.

me 18 minutes later :(

I was a bit harsh on the 4060, I know :( The only reason is that it offers very little over the 3060, but since the video was made, the 4060 has come down in price and the 3060 and 6600 XT / 6700 XT GPUs have become a lot more scarce. So depending on pricing, the 4060 is really not a bad GPU, especially if you cant find alternatives or older gen cards for a good price. It's performance increase when it comes to RT is quite significant over the 3060, you get AV1 and frame generation. If it was $50 cheaper at launch and had 12GB VRAM it wouldve been an awesome card. The only thing that brought it down is at the time of release it cost the same as a 3060, and there wasnt much performance gains except for RT.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I actually got it for $250, but paid a US vendor, live in the UK and had a $50 customs charge. But overall I'm not super sad about it. It's giving my cyberpunk 100+ FPS with low RT on 1440p. I barely play FPS heavy games though so I'm not needing an upgrade yet.

The one I got for my channel I am using in my wife's PC now as she records gameplay and the NVENC encoder is very good. It's also pretty fast at 1080p and very decent at 1440p gaming.

Yeah, good optimizations are a thing of the past it seems. But we arent allowed to say games arent optimized well though, they are just “demanding”.

​@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews "We arent allowed" how so? The industry doesn't work like this, at least with PC. And there is no need to allow it to go that way.

I mean the moment gamers say a game is unoptimized you get big channels defending it saying it is only demanding and it has nothing to do with optimization, only for the game to perform great after a few patches. Or you get Todd Howard saying you should upgrade your PC 🤦

If money allows I would highly recommend the 4070 over the 4060. I habe both and the 4070 is just a much better GPU.

Thanks for the recommendation.. Btw.. 110w vs 200w is a massive difference too.. Because i pay my own electricity bills.. i think I'll go for 4060 then. Because right now.. my current GPU has 150w of TDP. I really do care about my bills.. that 50w extra is equal to 12w x 4 lights Bulbs 😂. Idk but i will reconsider.

@@juneaoalfred3704 Yeah, makes sense in that regard. The 4060 is extremely efficient. But the 4070 with a bit of an undervolt or even just running at a lower power target will be slightly more efficient actually, but I get it.

Yeah, it’s not ideal to test true latency end-to-end, but it is good enough to show differences as the additional latency it adds is added to both benchmarks. Trying out different software but havent found anything I particularly like yet. What do you use?

Not familiar with the term. Is it good or bad?

Oh yeah, definitely. Some games when measured with an LDAT actually have slightly lower latency as well. I didnt show all games I tested in this video, but the average increase in latency over 7 (or 8) games tested was 10ms. Some were lower and some higher, and it changes from game to game.

Hahaha, yeah, I was trying to explain it to people that hate it. I use it every day on my 4080 and it's really great, especially in Cyberpunk, Witcher 3 and Ratchet and Clank.

I agree with you. And now that AMD has joined the fray it's even better for everyone.

If you still use a GTX 650 Ti then that’s really awesome! It’s probably crying tears of joy at being kept alive for so long. But if you plan on playing any recent AAA game then yeah, probably time for it to be put to rest. Still, really awesome to hear you are still using a 650 Ti! Never sell it.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Well I'm just a poor person, + I have a difficult situation in the country and in the economy, not everyone can buying computer. I'm from Ukraine

@@antarus6338 Yeah, I can only imagine. Didnt mean to sound elitest at all, sometimes it's all people can afford, and that is also fine. As long as people enjoy what they have and what they are playing all is good! Really hope the situation in Ukraine improves quickly :(

Yes, the first test was just with DLSS super resolution, and not frame generation to show that when you are CPU bound, DLSS Super Resolution does not increase your frame rate. I then enabled Frame Generation (the option above) to show how much it helps when CPU bound.

Nvidia reflex gets enabled automatically when frame generation gets enabled, and you cant disable it, so it's always enabled by default 👍

Fair enough! Though I enable it in every game I can, except MW3. Tech like this doesnt belong in a multiplayer competitve shooter.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews The fact that it requires a pretty high frame rate to begin with without feeling excessively laggy makes its usefulness limited. It is decent for certain situations though.

@@Son37Lumiere It does limit its uses, agreed, and a lot of people arent aware of the fact that it's not meant to turn 30 fps into 60 fps, but rather 90 fps into 140 fps for example. I have a 1440p 165hz monitor and I adjust my visuals so that I get around 90-100 fps base frame rate, and then I enable frame gen to get to 140+. I mostly play single player games, and the added input latency at those frame rates dont bother me in the games I play, but I do get a more visually pleasing presentation in the form of increased motion fluidity. I get why people dont like it though, it's not perfect. There is some artifacting, additional input latency and you require a high enough frame rate for it to work properly. Generally for me though it works quite well, as does FSR 3 frame generation, mostly. The increased motion fluidity is worth the negatives to me, but I understand that for others it might not be.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I do use AFMF in Cyberpunk on my 7900 XT to achieve 120 fps with RT reflections enabled, which causes a 50% decrease in performance alone on AMD hardware. Being that nearly every surface in CP is reflective it does have a pretty large visual impact, more so than any of the other RT settings save path tracing. In most games though, I've found it to be unnecessary, except to overcome a hard 60 fps limit or to make a game I'm getting less than 100 fps in feel better with my 144 hz monitor. I will say, it generally performs better than I was expecting though.

Yeah correct, this was addressed in previous comments 👍

Yeah, you make very valid points, and FG is situational. If you notice the input latency and it bothers you then best to leave it off. It actually works better when playing with a controller, like Witcher 3, and Ratchet and Clank etc, as the input latency with a controller isnt as noticeable as with a mouse. But if you dont like it, that’s also great, at least you tried it, found it wanting, and that’s fine. I mean, you dont need me to tell you it’s fine hahaha, but I appreciate your comment sharing your experience with it and why you dont like it.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews yeah exactly, can only talk from my point of view, I don't care if others buy into the FG marketing, it's impressive tech regardless of it being useless for me.

Game like telltale will benefit greatly from this

FG is only usable on high fps games (80+)

Hmm, the 3060 Ti or 4060 will probably be your better bet if you want the better RT performance out of these 3, but it's still not great RT performance unfortunately. Frame generation on the 4060 can help in games that support it, but if you want good RT performance you're probably better off with something more powerful. Overall the 3060 Ti is about 10% faster than the 4060, and about matches it in RT.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews thank you

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews if you don’t mind me asking what would have the best VR performance

Yeah, when I initially tested it in Diablo it did nothing, and still not. But you get great energy savings if that is something you are interested it, as the fps stay the same, but half of it is generated, so the GPU works less hard.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i like fg in stutterymess games .

Yeah, it's not good for online shooters, and it's really silly that MW3 now has it. I have a video up on that as well and it's horrible

Yeah, exactly this! Another great benefit is if you are CPU bound you wont get any performance benefit from enabling upscaling. This provides a higher frame rate even when CPU bound.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews If the game is running like 30-40fps and FG push it to 60, does feel better or worst?

You can but it will be a bad experience. Frame Gen is for high refresh rate monitors, so preferably 120hz+

Appreciate the comment! Yeah, AMD also recommend at least 55 fps before enabling their frame gen technology, and I found anything below 50 to be just too low as the input latency penalty becomes a lot more noticeable. So what I do on the daily is configure the game so that I get about 80 fps and then enable frame gen, and it works great. Have a good one and happy gaming!

Key phrase being "who knows what they're doing". So many people try to use it to go from 15 fps to 30 fps, or use a 60hz monitor with vsync and then complain about input lag. That's who this video is for.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Nobody is trying to use it to go from 15 to 30fps because in what game would a DLSS frame gen enabled card get 15fps? Also, DLSS disables vsync and requires forcing the option on in the control panel which only someone 'who knows what they're doing' could do.

Agree fully, it's great tech!

Interesting. What monitor do you have? Did you reload Windows?

Yes, I reinstalled all windows. I have a LG ultragear 2k g-sync monitor.

Did you set your refresh rate correctly again? And do you have HAGS enabled? HAGS usually gets disabled when reinstalling Windows, and your refresh rate defaults to 60hz again.

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews refresh rate is at 144hz, hags on.

@@PepuDrummer527 Hmm, that is strange yeah, sorry bud, I have no answer for you at the moment. Have you tried it with G-Syn enabled as well as v-sync in the Nvidia control panel? It will cap your framerate to around 138 fps on a 144hz monitor, but will probably get rid of the tearing you are seeing.

1080 Ti is still such an awesome GPU. Was my personal favourite out of all the GPUs I have owned. That said, this is exactly my point. If you need to pixel peep, or zoom 5x while playing back at 0.25x speed to tell the difference, you are not going to notice it during actual gameplay. Actually the reason why I disable RT reflections in most games too, because it looks nice when looking at it, but I barely notice it when actually playing the game. I understand people complaining that 40 series is too expensive, because it is. But frame generation is pretty good nonetheless.

That was when I toggled Frame Generation in the settings, hence the big increase in framerate you saw.