Do Suppressors Affect Ballistic Performance?

Do Suppressors Affect Ballistic Performance? - Season 2: Episode 78

Рет қаралды 22,479

Күн бұрын

Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer your questions about what I think will be the next hot cartridge niche and more! Enjoy.
Check out RSO TV: bit.ly/3wluVNc
Shop the RSO store: bit.ly/3TjCzBM
00:00 - Corrections
04:20 - I saw a short on KZfaq where you were talking about bore snakes. I wanted to know your thoughts on whether they could damage the rifling or muzzle crown? Keep up the videos
07:02 -What is the most important loading and ballistics information to keep track of when hand-loading? I’ve been handloading since around 2008, and my data is scattered between the last 3 cell phones I’ve had, random paper targets, and legal pads. Do you have any insight into resources or formatting that will help new handloaders keep track of what’s important?
12:42 - Why did the .260 fail?
14:09 - My concern with cleaning my gun regularly is rust. Is that not an issue with modern guns?
16:44 - Watching your video on the .264 WM and a question came up. How does the 26 Nosler show inferior ballistics to the 6.5-300 WBY when shooting the same bullet at the same velocity?
18:38 - I was hoping to see a video with your take on where the hunting and shooting industries might be today if John M. Browning never lived. Its an interesting thought- what we wouldn't have, but what we might have instead.
23:32 - I have a question regarding suppressors. It seems like suppressors help 2 things: lower recoil and noise. It is annoying up front to deal with the wait and expense but seems like it’s worth it in the long run. Question is do suppressors have any sort ballistic benefit such as as acting like an extended barrel sort of or anything else?
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

Пікірлер: 125

@drakeslocum2564 Жыл бұрын

You said 458 bushmaster again 😂. It’s okay Mr.Ron

@kennethbyler1619 Жыл бұрын

🤣😃 thats what happens when Ron has forgotten more than most of us will ever know.

@RonSpomerOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Bow Howdy, I did, didn't I! Thanks for cutting me some slack.

@winstonc.2509 Жыл бұрын

Yeah I say he’s earned the right to miss a word once in a while.

@hammerheadms Жыл бұрын

🤣OMG, yeah like 2 more times after. Ron, we love your foibles.

@christopheroleary2512 10 ай бұрын

Not just 1 more time, but twice!

@watermann8200 Жыл бұрын

I'm what you might call a tax stamp enthusiast currently at 5 between silencers and SBR. The tax is a one time 200 for each NFA item and the paperwork is not that much of an issue although the wait for the items is horrible, as they drag their feet for months on end up to a year to approve it and send the stamp.

@Monasucks Жыл бұрын

Greetings from Germany. Silencers do in fact add change the ballistics. Usually they add V0 and cut the gases clear behind a the bullet and thus effect the trajectory and speed.

@rpk5250 Жыл бұрын

Greetings. What sort of chambering and rifle set up do you have and what have you noticed that the suppressor does?

@GL500RYDER Жыл бұрын

Talks about saying "458 Bushmaster", then proceeds to do it again @3:44 followed seconds later with the same gaff! You're the best at making us laugh!

@rogerramjet7567 Жыл бұрын

Very nice Ron. Always like listening to your comments. My thanks to you 👍👍

@kurtlanford1448 Жыл бұрын

Great conversation sir ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge ! I’m with you on reloading data , write it on paper. I even make notes on my targets and save them in a file cabinet !

@Cloggie1967 Жыл бұрын

I live in Scotland and shoot a .243 with a suppressor (we call them moderators). Our government and police actually encourage us here to use one for the reasons you mentioned and it is very easy to get it on your gun license. Mine took 2 weeks all together.

@johnwurfel2862 Жыл бұрын

Exactly. They are polite to neighbors and animals and protective to shooter and bystander hearing, saving in medical hearing aids later.

@philipfreeman72 Жыл бұрын

The short barrel craze sure contribute to muzzle blast & hearing loss .

@brandonparrett2436 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for not being ugly to us suppressor owners and gas gun lovers. We hunt too. Suppressors absolutely change harmonics. Sometimes just a muzzle device alone but many documents and science behind a suppressor tightening up some groups. My old 1022 shoots dimes now that I put a 3 port brake on it I had laying around in 22 cal. Looks crazy but it shoots and my sandman makes 2 of my rifles tighten up but makes one open up

@jeremystyron9721 Жыл бұрын

Hey Ron really enjoy your content very very educational keep up the good work it's always a pleasure and an interest to watch the different topics You were discussing suppressors They do actually affect the way your projectile performs it reduces the speed of your bullet Quite a bit usually you'll lose 3 to 600' per 2nd dependent on the caliber or cartridge

@CampbellsCoins Жыл бұрын

I look forward to your weekly videos Ron! Well done sir.

@whiplash636 Жыл бұрын

Imagine my surprise to hear a comment of mine being read aloud by a legend. Thanks, Ron!

@allthingsconsidered3211 Жыл бұрын

Bore snakes are for in the field cleaning and shotguns. I watched a guy try to destroy his barrel with a brass rod attacking the crown, ramming it at angles. About hreaking the rod. Scoped it before and after. He used a power drill too. Thing looked spotless. Really surprised me. Ss bbl if i believe. I still do the shot cards for reloading. I buy a 100 pack online and they last forever.

@stephenland9361 Жыл бұрын

The .260 Remington is simply the .308 Win necked down to 6.5mm and is yet another excellent example of a 'once wildcat' made standard by Remington. Other examples are the .25-06 Rem, the .22-250 and the 7mm-08. It goes to show how versatile the original .30-06 and .308 cases are when neck sizes are changed up or down. Taking the .30-06 case up to .35 calibre gives the .35 Whelen, another excellent although somewhat overlooked cartridge. Consumers are a finicky lot, overly influenced by advertising and hype. But then, manufacturers are in business to sell product. The entire firearms and ammo industries are dependant on ongoing sales of new products. "Bigger, better, faster, harder hitting" are now giving way to, "Further, more accurate, higher BC". It'll be interesting to see what the next wave of hype will involve.

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@kevinsimonsii6605 Жыл бұрын

Suppressors can in fact add muzzle velocity, though short ones, and some small ones can slow it down slightly

@Glimpsedshow Жыл бұрын

All my moderators (.243/.308/.303) add muzzle velocity across a variety of loadings, although its a small amount - 30-50fps

@BashingBambi 11 ай бұрын

Ron when I was testing a newly built 6.5 Grendel with a client we tested factory and handloads and we found that using a sound moderator the velocity increased by 50 fps over not using a suppressor/moderator I’ve not noticed it since but I’ve not specifically tested for it

@paulsimmons5726 Жыл бұрын

I believe the railroad date you were referring to was 1869. Great video, thanks for posting!

@jasonfiggemeier2499 Жыл бұрын

Love your videos Ron!!!, a quick correction though. Suppressors can and will most definitely increase velocity on your gun. I have been comparing it with my Remington 700 with 22" Mcgowen barrel 8.5 twist 7mm Rem Mag. I get about 50 fps increase with a deadair Sandman L. On my 6.5 creedmoor i get about 20 fps. On the sniper rifles we have at work we routinely get increased velocity. I will say that the longer the barrel the less effective the Suppressor is at changing the velocity. If you shoot a gas gun suppressed you will notice the increased blow back in your face especially if you're a lefty like me which shows that there is most definitely increased pressure which will effect velocity. Love you're videos and my wife even says she likes them because you have such a kind voice lol.

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@hayeswooten Жыл бұрын

Great info Ron

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@deannalemburg10 Жыл бұрын

A logarithmic scale used to measure decibels rather than linear, increased by 10

@mefirst5427 Жыл бұрын

Decibels are log scales vs. linear which has smaller magnitude increments.

@hadleyscott1160 Жыл бұрын

I bought a 45acp awhile back. It was a relatively hand made firearm. While heavy it shoots real accurate. But with the case came instructions on care: Do Not Clean For 600 rounds when first fired. To properly break in the barrel. I’m old but this 45acp shoots better than my eyes dirty or not.

@idahoron Жыл бұрын

I can absolutely verify that suppressors can and do affect groups. With the suppressor on my 22lr I have seen groups change drastically. Some do better some do worse. Fact is they do change groups.

@jasonfiggemeier2499 Жыл бұрын

The effects on groups is due to changes in the harmonics. Much like a barrel tuner. As far as ballistics it would be velocity which is affected as well

@davidteague5461 Жыл бұрын

Yes it’s very sad that the 260 is going away. I’ve owned one for years , takin many deer with it . I did buy a 6.5 just because I figured it would go away. But it’s a shame, because it’s a great caliber.

@donbenson5292 Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say a 260 is going away. I have 3 of them and adding 2 in 260AI. I have had no problem acquiring brass both large and small primer ones.

@joshclemons9975 Жыл бұрын

I love your videos your my favorite when it comes to firearms and ammo I've researched all of videos and your website but the KZfaq sign behind you is driving me crazy trying to figure out if it has bullet holes in it or what is it's story thanks

@hunterhyrns385 Жыл бұрын

Does annealing brass that might be on its last reload make it last longer? Thanks for the great content.

@reniergrobler6226 Жыл бұрын

In South Africa we buy supressors/silencer over the counter. No waiting or lisence requirements. Even if you don't have an fire arm license you can walk into any fire arm store and buy any supressor/silencer. If you pay for it you take it💪🏻👌🏻

@xxshiftlockxx Жыл бұрын

Well I've personally measured the velocity changes on 3 different AR's with 6 different types of factory ammo. Suppressers most definitely do increase muzzle velocity. So that is an added benefit of them. When I hear people say all they do is change the point of impact it makes me cringe because they 100% do change the speed of the bullet as well.

@bentaylor216 Жыл бұрын

I looked into getting a 260 Rem but with copper bullets more commonly being insisted on here in the UK the 6.5 CM offers more reloading flexibility for longer bullets in a short action. Seems a shame, but there you go.

@lavigeriemathieu1294 Жыл бұрын

Faithful French viewer and avid range goer here. You are right in pointing out suppressors are basically unregulated accessories over here, and have been since 2018. They are no longer considered an essential part of a firearm and therefore regarded as innocuous per se, so buying one is basically like buying a scope. Long live your excellent channel.

@RonSpomerOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the details, Lavigerie. My bride and I are looking into a France Reeve's pheasant hunt in Normandy. Hope we can pull it off.

@walkerhipke1127 Жыл бұрын

New cartridge idea 458 Bushcom or 450 SOmaster lol

@stevendonnalammar4422 Жыл бұрын

The Remington model 8 was the internal magazine fed Semi-auto rifle of it's time, the model 14 was a tube fed pump/ slide action of it's time. The updated model 8 was renamed the model 81 and the updated model 14 was renamed the model 141.

@joeymatuszewski3399 Жыл бұрын

The updated 14 was the model 14 1/2.

@garymercerjr8545 Жыл бұрын

Suppressors do add a little velocity to a rifle. Clint at Classic Firearms has a video about that

@danblumel Жыл бұрын

Logarithmic scale for dB's is the word you were looking for ? They are the inverses of exponentials.

@jonathanmitchell3733 Жыл бұрын

I have the same issue with suppressors, I just don't like the way it looks. It's also so heavy on the front end of your rifle. Other than that, they are bloody awesome to use.

@Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow Жыл бұрын

It does alter harmonics, you can tune for it

@markchester7584 Жыл бұрын

Yes paper records are great but a spreadsheet is best. Then keep it on a memory stick with a backup to transfer it between any computer.

@66smithra Жыл бұрын

Better yet the cloud and then there’s no need for a memory stick that can fail or get lost.

@garyk76 Жыл бұрын

When checking a zero right before deer season I never clean a rifle to after I'm done hunting with it then I clean it thoroughly before storing it

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@johnmoore4510 Жыл бұрын

I love keeping written records too, but I never take them out, I photo it with my phone and send or print out a copy, if not just straight out copy the written paper…

@zacharyfrench9935 Жыл бұрын

Jhon Browning also invented the early semi auto pistols as we know them today with fn and colt

@donbenson5292 Жыл бұрын

I don't think the 260 is going away. Maybe in factory ammo but reloading components are readily available. I have 3 260s and adding 2 in 260AI. A thoater is cheap and can get far more performance that the Creedmoor. For me i personally dont shoot above 130 gr bullets in a 9 inch twist. I do have 8 inch twists in the AIs. The 105gr blitzking are phenomenal on ground hogs.

@RonSpomerOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Don, you are more pragmatic and sensible than cool. More power to you!

@allthingsconsidered3211 Жыл бұрын

I write the moa and velocity in the “comments” or “notes” on the index cards/stickers

@glockparaastra Жыл бұрын

Google Sheets allows you to access your load data, at any time anywhere on any device.

@williamthomas3620 Жыл бұрын

Suppressors are logarithmic in the sound reduction.

@RossoRacing248 Жыл бұрын

It's a one time payment for the tax stamp, but there's alot of weird rules about transporting NFA items across state lines

@douglasschafer6372 Жыл бұрын

I have only chronographed 2 rifles with and without suppressors and found that both showed a little increase in velocity. Might be my experience only.

@bentaylor216 Жыл бұрын

Here in the UK moderators are not mandatory but they are common. In some mainland European countries they are still illegal. I believe France is one of them.

@walth5336 Жыл бұрын

Lever guns are much easier to clean if you just take the receiver apart to get to the breach

@johncoulter1223 Жыл бұрын

I live in Michigan but I do a lot of shooting in Canada you need a compressor at the gun range in Canada

@rodneyhickman825 Жыл бұрын

They illegal in canada

@amym828 Жыл бұрын

The 260 "failed" because its SAMMI spec is 1:9 twist. You can't shoot heavier, better performing projectiles in 1:9 twist in 6.5 caliber. Yes you can get a custom barrel, but custom wasn't as popular or as accessible as it is today. People just wanted to buy a rifle off the shelf and go shooting and they couldn't shoot good projectiles with SAMMI spec 260 Rem because of that slower twist rate.

@johnbuck6685 Жыл бұрын

Why would you want a silencer the muzzle blast confuses the elk and sometimes they’ll just circle giving you a chance to kill all the young cows and large bulls

@charliedrake2999 Жыл бұрын

I own 2 .260s ammo is harsh to find my model 7 shoots factory ammo and my savage shoot hand loads that a family Freind reloads for me

@timbarnett3898 Жыл бұрын

I like to shoot an neighbor asked me to sight in his Rugar AR before an after he mounted new barrel suppressor. At 100 yards bullet reaction to suppressor was 1" to right an 3" high. Neighbor adjusted scope over 1" left an 3" down an we drilled bullseyes. I thought 1" to left or right, but 3" out seemed excessive?

@watermann8200 Жыл бұрын

No the added weight on the end of the barrel changes it's harmonics and the bullet POI.

@leeadams5941 Жыл бұрын

Wire a plain light bulb in your safe, not a big one, maybe 40 watts, if you live in a high humidity area this will keep the humidity low enough to prevent rust, common sense says keep the bulb away from powder and loaded rounds...and anything that will catch fire, no direct contact with anything that will catch fire or melt...

@TheKaihi Жыл бұрын

Actually, a silencer normaly improves accuracy as it reduces the ammount of gas "overtaking" the bullet after leaving the nozzle and thereby destabilizing the first flight phase. - The one and only thing that is easier over here in europe is buying supressors.

@shootingatshadow Жыл бұрын

Decibels are a log base 10 scale or logarithm.

@RonSpomerOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Logarithm! That's the word I was scrambling for. Where were you when I needed you, William? Thank you sir.

@KathrynLiz1 Жыл бұрын

Decibel scale is logarithmic..... exponential.....I believe the silly federal moderator tax is a one-off...

@glenspies6251 10 ай бұрын

Exponential

@shootingatshadow Жыл бұрын

Google Sheets, keep track of your load data

@John_Redcorn_ Жыл бұрын

Once you start using suppressors youll never go back. Youll never buy another rifle without a threaded barrel. To anyone who dreads going thru the paperwork and wait times, just do it. The sooner you get it started the sooner youll have it. I waited for years and years and finally made up my mind to do it and i regret waiting so long. If you go through SilencerShop its very easy.

@stuckgrenadepin.225 Жыл бұрын

Or the government can stop infringing on our rights and end the NFA, then you could just buy them over the counter with your ammo.

@albundy7459 Жыл бұрын

I’ve never seen anyone shoot PRS with a suppressor. That should tell you something.

@bullheadedgideon1673 Жыл бұрын

🤔

@joeymatuszewski3399 Жыл бұрын

The model 14 was not an upgrade to the model 8. Model 14 and then 14 1/2 were the pump guns.

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@wilhelmvo6399 Жыл бұрын

It's a 1 time tax on each suppressor, Mr. Ron.

@glockparaastra Жыл бұрын

No laws at all wrt to silencers in South Africa. Most farmers prefer that hunters use silencers so that their game doesn't get spooked so much.

@jeremiah7855 Жыл бұрын

Did you shoot your KZfaq play button plaque?? Looks like it lol

@RonSpomerOutdoors Жыл бұрын

Sure did. In honor of our 200,000 subscribers. 30-cal. hole for the 300,000 coming soon!

@jeremiah7855 Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Bada$$

@garyh1449 Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors That 30 caliber hole should be done with 30-30 or 30-06 because they are the early cartridges that still exist today.

@scottzipperer6146 Жыл бұрын

Florida is a nightmare for rust

@megdye236 Жыл бұрын

Logarithmic scale.

@gsnicholas8522 Жыл бұрын

The model 14 is not an improved version of the model 8. The model 8 is a semi auto rifle, and the model 14 is a pump rifle. They’re completely different.

@chriscardenas5398 Жыл бұрын

Clean your barrel after each use with a cleaning kit and your rifle barrel will last forever

@bobbygreen2291 Жыл бұрын

I’ve reloaded for 59 years and I will not load any straight wall cartridges,,I will just buy what I need and not worry about blowing myself up ,,they are easier to mess up on.

@66smithra Жыл бұрын

How are they easier to mess up on?

@bobbygreen2291 Жыл бұрын

@@66smithra seven and a half grains and you are fine ,,eight grains and you blow the gun up ,,or six grains and you blow the gun up,,,very fine lines between right and bad wrong loading pistol cartridges,,also very close together calibers of bullets in those calibers like . 451,,,then there’s a .452 then there’s a .458 all of which would squeeze into a 44 magnum cartridge,,and it is neither of the above listed calibers,,it is a .429 caliber

@66smithra Жыл бұрын

@@bobbygreen2291 huh?

@bobbygreen2291 Жыл бұрын

@@66smithra even 450 bushmaster has very close tolerances you have to be exactly right or you are exactly wrong

@66smithra Жыл бұрын

@@bobbygreen2291 the 450 bushmaster is no different to load than any other center fire cartridge.

@johnangle8141 Жыл бұрын

How do you talk about John Browning and not talk about the 1911 ?

@RonSpomerOutdoor. Жыл бұрын

🌲🌲Merry Christmas 🎄🎄Message me on TELEGRAM 👆to claim your season offer.🎁🔝

@BashingBambi 11 ай бұрын

We are lucky in the UK as moderators are cheap and easy to get and may soon be removed from licensing

@RoryEllisMusic Жыл бұрын

Did your shoot your KZfaq silver plaque ? 😂

@johnboy7151 Жыл бұрын

Instead of taking your original sheet to show someone. Make a copy of it and put the original back in the binder. Lol

@kevinreichert3254 Жыл бұрын

Model 14 not a semi auto at all. It’s a pump rifle.

@nomad155 Жыл бұрын

Al Capone, Machine Gun Kelly, are among the guys. Don't know why they would just make it illegal for illegal activity, rather than illegal for just having it.