I hunted deer with my dad from 12 years old till I was old enough to hunt on my own. After that time, I helped him track deer he has shot with a 30 06 using 180 gr and 150 gr bullets. I was hunting with a 243 winchester and 80 gr bullets, and they fell where they were. Most times, the 243 did not exit the deer using all energy in the chest of the deer. While the 06 was using its energy out in the air. Since that time I've used 85 to 90 gr bullets on deer with great results among with both daughters and all grandkids the same old 788 remington my dad bought me. And by the way when my dad saw the 243 at work he bought him a 600 Mohawk and used it for 50 years till his passing in 2020.

One quote from you that always stuck in my head was "Each animal is an individual, and they don't all respond the same way when they get shot. Not all people respond the same way when they get shot."

I am 75 now. Taken all North American big game mostly with 338. Putting your round on target, or bullet placement was always number one for me. Nosler partitions NEVER fail. Neither has my LEUPOLD scopes.

I think the guy who mentioned quality was talking about the fit and finish more than quality. You used to be able to get beautiful wood with excellent fit and finish in a cheaper gun. Now, even high end stuff doesn’t match the fit and finish of the 50’s and 60’s. I was looking at a very pricey Blaser rifle, and the fit and finish on the wood to metal wasn’t as good as several old, cheap single shot bolt action 22’s I have. For over $30,000, I expect it to have better fit and finish than the cheap, single shot 22 that was my dad’s first gun, and cost under $5 new.

I think that the most important thing in turning off the lights quickly and humanely is shot placement.

Thanks Mr.Ron, for answering my question

Hey Ron love your content… Question… can we get a history of the .410 bore shotgun and why some folks think it’s very ineffective and underpowered?

Them there Shmitt and Benders are the cream of the crops. These rifle Scopes are military grade and are very expensive. All of the best snipers in the USA military use these scopes and can definitely get the job done, day or night, in any climate and place in the world. That's the skinny.

The scope is what saved the 270 win! It didn’t start to get popular until the scope came out and available

Thanks Ron. I was curious about that. You made my day. I never thought I’d make your commentary.

I've never had anything walk away from my 30.06 with 165 grain nobler partitions Coyotes to moose. My hunting buddy always used a .243 on everything, including a good size grizzly. The best gun is the gun you shot the best

Roy Weatherby was a big proponent for energy transfer or hydrostatic shock!

Thanks for sharing Ron ,we enjoyed this video .I love the 6.8 western, but no reloading stuff for it ,so the 6.5prc seems to be the next in line. Ron thanks again and have a great day. .

Never had any problems with any of the Leupold Scopes. The Scopes from Rite On are built and inspected by retired military and law enforcement dedicated to quality and I can't find anything at all wrong with. So far so good. They are recoil resistant and that's the bottom line.

Bullet placement, head, neck, heart and or lungs. Whether a 22cal or 300mag.

I’ve always put shot placement as the most important factor in humanely taking an animal.

Ron I think you and the guy that wrote in about energy are somewhat in agreement more than you think. I think you both understand that without sufficient energy, the bullets will not expand/fragment and do the damage necessary for a fast dispatch. However, you are correct that a well placed projectile can quickly dispatch an animal if it is a direct hit to the heart or brain. The high energy can allow the bullet to expand and do more damage than a slow moving projectile, therefore giving you a little more margin for error if the shot isn’t perfect.

2:52. The ripping damage to vitals is the direct result of energy transfer. That said, an SST bullet will transfer energy like crazy- and fail to kill quickly because it transfers the energy in way too wide a cone with a bunch of fragments on a big boned animal. You need energy transfer *to the right internal things*. That means good shot placement and a bullet that opens up (copper/bonded/partitioned/adequate cup&core) without falling apart too much (inadequate cup&core or inadequate SST).

I am anxiously awaiting the videos of My friend Ron facing down dangerous game with his 22 lr. 😅

I have found 100 grain Remington Core Lokt for my 243 Winchester to give me the best results in wound channel, blood trail, and expansion on Whitetails, than the controlled expansion bullets at ranges of 200yards and less. At that range, their accuracy is good, and they can be counted on to mushroom. I hunt in the Missouri Ozarks and the majority of the deer I have taken have been less than 150 yards.

I shot my first buck back in November with a cross bow hit him great at about 10 yards he had a blood trail about 5 inches wide over 500 yards he ended up on private land and i never was able to recover him.

I have taken over 100 pcs. of game with my S&B PM2 6-24x56 @100-420 meters. And i love it. It is however expensive, and heavy.

As long as you hit the vitals. It’ll drop. Albeit more so if the bullet expands and goes through creating a blood channel clear through. Pass through damage will be more severe if you use the proper bullet. No FMJs please. Use those for paper. I finished a deer one time that was hit in its back two ribs that took them off the spine but never broke the hide. It did graze the side and took the hair off but never even broke the skin. It wasn’t till I gutted it that I found those two ribs broken off inside. He did drop like a stone as I double lunged him at 5-10 feet with my 06. He ran right at me. It was raining hard and I was under some pines.

I've had great results using 123g SST bullets out of my son's 6.5 CM on deer loading both reduced loads (about the same as 6.5 grendel) & full loads @ 2810fps. Successfully killed deer w/ reduced @ 300 yards & full out to 375 yards. With the SSTs the larger wound channel give young shooters more margin for error on shots.

With monolithic bullets, some, like Hornady and some Barnes require over 2000fps to open whereas other brands open at much lower speeds. There are a handful of monolithic bullets optimized for good subsonic performance. Some companies, like Cavity Back bullets have some bullets that open at 1500fps (and some even lower). Interestingly, it seems that a rapid barrel twist has a positive effect on bullets opening quickly.

a kahles, schmidt and bender, all 5k+ scopes that will make your jaw drop. but for hunting they are so over the top ridiculous and heavy theyre not practical. Leupold makes a great line of scopes that are very light and durable, and backed by a fool proof warranty. Most all the "knockoff" scopes that utilize JAPANESE glass and boast some form of HD coating are actually really good values. They tend to be a little on the heavy side though.

Using both my 25-06 with Nosler Partition and my 264 Winnie with Nosler Ballistic Tips, I've yet to have to walk one step tracking the deer I've taken with both rifles. DRT.

Ron said that the ELDX may not have enough energy to open from a short barrel. But the eldx is designed to be a long range bullet (they advertise beyond 400 yards) so it should perform just fine at short barrel velocities at shorter ranges because they are identical to long range long barrel velocities. (If the marketers can be believed)

A bit late Ron..wound channel allows blood outside to make it easier to track, however a major wound causing internal bleeding kills also. Blood has to be in the circulatory system to do its job..if it's inside or outside the animal will still have it dying if it's not in the veins and arteries. Of course I prefer it outside, field dressing an animal with a couple liters of blood in the body cavity sucks..and blood rots extremely fast if you don't get to it fairly quickly.

If I had been Johnny Carson's "Carnac the Magnificent" I would have guessed that the 350 Legend would be a resurrected 351 Winchester Self Loading and the 35-30 would be standardized soon (360 Buckmaster). My next prediction will be a semi rimless 40 caliber cartridge.......I only wonder what the new and improved 401 Winchester Self Loading will be called!!!!

The right scope depends on who and where they intended to use it and their style of hunting.

Re: scope question and response. I watched your video, reviewing what to look for in a rifle scope. I recommend this video because it touches on where scopes are in 2023. I’m very experienced, scopes are just a tool I use. I scope buy, and tune my scope and forget about it. So every decade I need to check the state of the art and see what’s currently available. Ron’s video gives enough good information to have a better chance at selecting the right scope for your sport today. It’s used to be Zeis, Shmit Bender, Leaupold or one of the other top names.. not the same in 2023. At the end of the day like Ron says.. bit of crap shoot but you can hedge your spin of the wheel with knowledge. You do have to weed through the marketing.

I think you need to research sectional density in combination with velocity. A lower SD bullet at higher velocity will help wreck a bullet and make soup inside and more bleeding.

With the 6.5 creed with the short barrel the eld-m or and open tip match bullet will give you the energy dump and performance you are looking for

What kills a deer/game animal when shot. Ask a trauma surgeon, they will give you the same answer Ron gave you, maybe with a bit of a different angle, but same same.

Any bullet that blows a hole through the vitals is all you need. I have hunted about 50 years in the USA and 8 trips to Africa. I have used 308, 30-06, 7mm RemMag, 444 Marlin, 300WSM, 300 WBY and 7x57. They all had the same effect on game. Dead. Use a stout bullet in a suitable caliber for game and it's all the same in the end.

Bullet placement always most impotant

Ron, I agree that hemorrhage is the real killer. However, the proper combination of speed and energy is needed for the bullet to reach arteries and organs... In other words, energy does not cause death, but energy is still essential for the bullet to cause a life ending bleed.

Shooting 6.5 CM from a 16-inch barrel is a waste of powder. I’d go for 6.5 Grendel with the 125 grain bullets. The “go wild” Ruger American is an attractive rifle, but the 6.5 Grendel Ruger American Ranch would be a better starter rifle, IMO. Just keep the shots around 100 yards.

Energy transfer to bullet expansion increasing blood loss thus kills by hemorrhaging. Agree with you.

I shot a smaller 1yr or 2 old doe one year at a range of maybe 50yrds with a Hornady ftx 4570gov out of a 26in barrel marlin. It was a near perfect shoulder shot. The damage was massive. The deer ran. A lot. Walking over to the shot point there were large pieces of lung on the ground and massive blood loss. I tracked that deer for probably close to 450yrds. This included jumping the deer once, and i still had to put second shot to the head to end it. Upon examination the left side shoulder, which was facing me during the shot, was completely shattered. The right side shoulder was held on by a few tendons and skin strips. The bullet exited the deer. When gutting no heart or lungs could be found in any sort of intact amount. I have no idea how the deer moved let alone ran nearly 500yrds. And neither did the buddy that came with me to find the deer. I nearly removed both front legs and the deer still ran several hundred yards. And i have no explanation for it. It was one of the weirdest experiences ive had

In regard to the question on energy transfer and its killing ability. There are only two ways that an animal dies, clinical death. Central Nervous shut down (Brain/spine) and blood loss. The bigger better, faster slower is an irrelevant argument if shot placement isn't precise. That's why every hunter is taught heart lung primary target zone. In my considered opinion, knowing your targets anatomy is the key to understanding what is the "Best" bullet, cartridge rifle combo. The perfect hunting rifle is the one you shoot well. Humbly submitted, Ron (The good looking one)

In Florida and Ga don't have long shots so in the stand my winchester model supergrade 70 308 is my go to I make my bullets don't want these plastic guns

I have used wide angle scope with 2x7 to shot most of game while moving and prefer neck shots to great success. Get a hit or miss and more game with no lists.

I have seen many deer shot with a 308 right in the boiler room and we never found them.

The guy with a 16 inch 6.5 creedmore you need to have 22 to 24 inch barrel to maximize performance. The bullet wasnt fast enough to expand. There is a velocity threahold for bullet expansion. What blows my mind are the short ar pistols in 556

Mr. Spomer, sir, as usual you deserve much respect. The problem is when folks over-simplify and create false dichotomies instead of realising that it isn't either or it's about a combination. But having taken much medium large game with relatively low energy .490 round balls @ 168 gn by punching straight through the heart or aorta with no measurable expansion of the projectile, I can say that placement as usual is 90-100% of the game. Is energy important? Sure, but it has little to do with wound cavity in comparison to ensuring projectile penetration so that it reaches and contacts vital tissue and ensuring expansion assuming one is using a bullet designed to optimise expansion and therefore directly destroy more tissue. I've always been a little amused at the seriousness with which the energy expansion cavity (erroneously referred to as a wound channel) is considered. Why? Because gelatine doen't behave quite like animal soft tissue. It has low shearing strength due a lack of any anatomical fibrous structure such as in muscle tissue. Of course, one could write an entire lengthy paper on the differences between body tissues themselves, their relative strength, elasticity, resilience, and if energy transfer caused by itself enough damage to kill, then like the Roman gladiators, boxers and MMA competitors would have an amazingly high mortality rate with lots of players waiting to get called off the bench! Consider one reason for the military to choose 5.56x45 NATO. It tends to tumble upon penetration of variable tissue densities and rigidities thus dumping more energy...no wait that's wrong...ah got it...thus damaging more tissue. Hence the reason that in decades of teaching combat arts I've always said that at close range I would rather face a gun than a sword or large knife. It's easier to survive a bullet wound to a nonvital area than a knife or sword wound. It's not about energy, it's about cutting surface. It's about direct contact tissue damage and all the fun that goes with bleeding out, whether internally or eternally.

There is value in the energy debate but it's just not that simple. Theorethically you could fire a .22rimfire round fast enough such that the velocity gives it the same energy as a larger calibre centrefire round such as a .308. But do you think because it has the same energy it would be more effective than the .308? I would doubt it. It would not perhaps do enough damage to drop larger game humanely if at all. Not counting head shots that is. As an analogy, consider trying to drive a fence post with a tack hammer as opposed to a sledge hammer. You could potentially swing the tack hammer fast enough so that it has more kinetic energy than the sledge hammer. Do you think it would drive the fence post as effectively as the sledge hammer. It would probably bounce off no matter how fast you it it without making the post go anywhere.

I collect old military bolt actions, better quality, they feel solid. Like you really have something in your hand. Fit n finish can be lacking but it's better than all this plastic crap they shove on us now.

Energy transfer? My experience says blood loss is key. DG, such as Cape Buffs, lions, or even hippos and elephants, can’t live with massive hemorrhaging. The big difference, though, is that a whitetail runs away from the area in which it was shot… Buffs and other DG types have little sense of humor when injured and may charge whatever they figure hurt them. All things considered, my experience says blood loss!

Mike the headless chicken survived for 14 months after his head was cut off. Weird stuff does happen Ron.

I hit a doe with a 7 Mag at 150 yards nearly 15 years ago that we never recovered, despite finding lung tissue and a large amount of blood. The blood trail seemingly vanished within 50 yards. Still bothers me to this day.

As usual, you are so right on, in your assessment. For a projectile to humanely kill an animal it MUST damage a VITAL "life supporting" organ, or open up a major vein to cause high speed blood loss. All of this talk about "WOUND CHANNELS" is just pure BS!!! If a bullet passes near a lung and doesn't touch it the wound channel can cause shock to that organ, but that shock is short lived and the organ recovers and continues to function. In the 70's my father mostly hunted Whitetail with only a .22 magnum with open sights. He never lost a deer, and seldom did a deer ever run. He was a masterful stalker and could stalk Whitetails in daylight, even across open fields. Usually working to within 150 to 200 yards before taking the shot. Of course it would sometimes take the better part of an hour just to travel 100 yards. Sometimes he'd take a headshot, and sometimes it was a perfect heart-lung side shot. I once watched him stalk to within 50 yards of 2 large does and took the biggest one with a Ruger 10/22 in 22LR. I laugh out loud when I hear guys saying you need big fast bullets to kill Whitetails.

Hi Ron, Watch you on U tube a lot. Being a retired Marine and shooting the 30-06 M-1 during the 50's. So I like a rifle with the 24" barrel, in retrospect the lenth of the barrel does effect velociy in general. I shoot a .270 win in a Weatherby Vanguard. Great round in a fantastic rifle combo. Your thoughts.

I’d recommend people pull the video up on KZfaq of a wild pig taking a forehead shot from a 30-30 at 50 yards and it just runs away pissed off 👍

So I have a comment on rifle quality that might be surprising. I recently bought a savage 110 6.5 Creedmoor at Walmart that came with a scope. I might mention that I build custom chassis rifles that shoot .25 MOA as a normal accuracy benchmark. I decided to try something as an experiment and took that cheap action and put it in a chassis to see how it would shoot. Low and behold the cheapest barreled action savage sells shoots 3/8” MOA with off the shelf ammo. The rifle isn’t pretty nor was it smooth. I took the bolt apart and honed out all the sharp edges and honed out the sharp edges where the bolt rides. Now it is smooth cycling and accurate. I submit from my own experiment that you can make a 550.00 rifle shoot and cycle as good as a 7500.00 custom rifle but it’s not going to be as beautiful on the wall. Personally I don’t give a crap how my rifles look I only care that they do the job I need them to do when I need them to do it!

A non compensated rifle transfers the same energy into your shoulder as the bullet can transfer to the target animal. Does the recoil energy kill hunters regularly? No. You are correct. It is the mechanism of injury, not the amount of energy transfer that kills.

Ya they had a lot of range finders during ww2 ,an a lot of rifel man snipers missed ,,

I think the old 303 British rifle have chambers that test out at 60000 or more .

Never had a bad Leupold scope and I feel to this day, that the reliability and consistency of Leupold scopes is second to none for a lot less money than the high end Zeiss, Swarovski and other great scopes from Europe.

Meaning that the effects in the body tissue are the same

Some of my new gun's don't shoot as good as my old ones.

Although I am not a big game hunter I am a paramedic of 18 years with a number of them spent in an intercity level 1 trauma center and will say that I can attest to the fact that kinetic energy transfer from a firearms projectile is responsible for in some cases massive trauma to soft tissue and organs which (in my experience) sadly increases lethality. I respect your position Ron, but trauma is trauma and humans are animals too.

Not a lot of energy transfer from an arrow and seems to drop a deer just fine.

Robotics Ron makes these cheap guns shoot better.

I’ve always trusted Remington corlok bullets what do you think?

Ron. Question sir: I plan on hunting deer here in Indiana next fall with a new rifle I've yet to buy. I'm going to use the 350 legend in a bolt gun probably, and it will probably be a Ruger with a 16" barrel or something with a short barrel so that it's light weight and handy. I will be hunting from the ground, and I will probably never shoot past 100 yards, unless I happen to have to shoot across a field that would be under 200 yards almost always. The question is what power scope should I mount on the rifle? I'm thinking something like a 1-4 or 2-6 and sight in at a hundred yards and again, never shoot past 200. I also will probably keep the scope on it's lower power unless the deer is really far away.. Also, what about a red dot? Thanks Tim South Central Indiana. USA..

A 22lr to the brain stem is more effective than a 308 to the buttocks, although less likely.

Have to disagree with energy transfer being the main component in making an ethical kill. I have personally killed numerous whitetail with a 310gr flat nose hardcast bullet at 1000fps out of my .44 mag. I can assure you that bullet is not expanding and is not transferring much energy at all as I've never recovered that bullet from any deer at any angle. Just a clean quarter size hole all the way through. In my humble opinion the 2 most important things for a clean kill is shot placement in a trajectory that intersects with the vitals and enough penetration to pass though the vitals, everything else is a very distant 3rd.

What do you think about a scope on a shotgun shotgun scoop?

I've seen a white tail run for about 20-30 yards after a vitals shot from a 50BMG. No cartridge is fool proof.

Accuracy is key. If the bullet doesnt transfer its energy but still pokes a hole into the heart the animal is dead. However energy transfer is the "safety net" that allows the less perfectly Accurate shot to still quickly and humanely kill the animal. The "temporary cavity" effect you see in ballistics gel is the example. The energy still has to hit close enough to actually affect the organs. The example of the elephant brain is kind of suspect. By missing by an inch are you still inside the braincase? Or are you outside the braincase? If outside the braincase that brain case will absorb a lot of that energy. Bone is very good at absorbing that energy.

I love the rebuttal on shock VS damage.probably the best I've heard.you will very rarely make a shock person see the reality of this argument. Greatexample .170 grain 3030.not much energy but huge penetration with results.9.3x57 285gr bullet.the old potato lobbed almost always exits.leaves a large exit hole without a lot of meat damage.low shock round

I agree with Travis because of my own experience. This year I loaded several different Nosler bullets, and tried them hunting white tail deer and hogs. I used Nosler accubond, which is a harder bullet that passes through the deer, I shot 2 deer with them, and they both ran about 100 yards. I shot one with the Nosler partition, and one with the ballistic silver tip, and hit the same way, neither passed clean through, but both dropped in their tracks. To me, it makes sense when you drop all the energy in the deer, they drop quicker.

Hey Ron, I always thought a 308 case ackley improved with a .277 bullet would of been absolutely fantastic non magnum round in short action for light rifles. run it at 65,000psi and it would be one of greatest all around rounds made. And now sig fury comes out not long ago and basically did same thing but to extreme for short barrels. What’s your thoughts on my version of non magnum 277 in 308 ackley case at 65,000psi.

👍🏻🇨🇦

The scoop on scopes?

It's kind of like if you hit a deer with a car that's a lot of energy but it lives and runs away

There have been many men in war shot multiple times and they continue to fight ( Roy Benavides 🇺🇸👍) so where’s the energy transfer there ?

I just listened to the part on energy transfer and found it very interesting. But I kind of disagree that bullet energy won't kill, It may not work all the time. But interestingly I shot a big 3x3 mule deer buck years ago with my .444 using hand loaded 300gr Speer hot core bullet. The deer was roughly a 100 yards and I put my bullet behind the left front shoulder. The deer went about 10 yards and dropped, when I opened him up I got the shock of life. There wasn't any blood in the chest cavity and when I got looking I saw that the bullet had hit right where I was aiming. But instead of going into the chest it slid along under the arm pit and exited out of the hide on chest. The bullet cut quite a groove through the flesh but didn't enter the chest. The only thing I can think of is the shock of the bullet must have stopped his heart.

Travis has been watching too many ballistic gel test

Mr. Spomer I have a question. 4 of my family members shoot left handed, myself included. Why are left handed rifles not as readily available in common places? Or am I looking in the wrong place? Thank you for the great videos and podcasts. Incredibly informative.

What do you think causes that "ripping, tearing, and destruction of the vital organs," Ron? Energy transfer, even energy transfer in the secondary wound channel. Sure, organ elasticity is a thing, but organs in the secondary wound channel can still be damaged purely by energy transfer. There's literally decades of medical evidence showing this in both civilian and military contexts, ranging from shots at extreme close range to extended ranges.

seen 40 to 50 deer shot with 6.5 needs more, it kills some and criples a lot more, that is not agreat deer round.

paul get a real gun 7-08 or go with a 125 nosler bt in your toy gun. the bt is softer than that 140 hor.

Yeah NOPE the first guy is wrong. Im a retired Firefighter Medic and Rescue Tech. BLOOD LOSS/hypovolemic shock is what kills unless you get a CNS shot. End of story. Im also also a bow hunter and when you think of how little energy were using compared to rifle hunters its pretty clear how blood loss caused by cutting kills.

That first question guy (Travis) did not know what the heck he was talking about. Guy needs to go back to Fudd training school or something. Point is, Travis is just plain wrong. I have harvested so many animals and penetration plus internal damaging from the bullet’s mushroom.. I’ve harvested several whitetail deer at literally point blank range, 5-10 yards at most in front of my blind, with a 180 grain .30-06… and I didn’t see ANY evidence of “energy transfer” even at super close range with a .30-06.. the deer didn’t move sideways not even an inch, just started gushing at both sides due to the projectile achieving 100% penetration. They ran off not too far, but even tho I put it right thru the vitals at 10 yards or less…. I saw no evidence of the deer absorbing ANY energy at all- and that’s evident with 90+% of deer I’ve harvested at any range. Sometimes they go right down but every time that’s happened for me it’s been a spine or neck shot. Energy foot pounds do measure “power”, and that tells us what it tells us.. but energy foot pounds isn’t a really good indicator for actual real-world (not just numbers on a page) stopping power/harvesting power on animals or 2 legged predators

Explain how we kill extremely large animals with arrows…it’s literally about what tissue you hit. If you’re a energy transfer fellow…the Barret 50 CAL is where energy transfer starts to matter because the velocity and size of bullet at that caliber splits humans apart. Any hunting caliber we use…not even close. I can kill a bull Moose with a 22-250…if I hit him in the right spot. Ballistic gel…is just gel. It doesn’t react like human tissue. Anyway…I agree with the author of the podcast…energy is great for breaking bone…but killing. Nah…it’s where you hit the target.

Damage bullet.does and terminal preformance over energy