I love the way Gunn's saying, "We didn't fire Henry Cavill!" - neatly ignoring the fact that he was told to announce that he was coming back to the role two weeks before Gunn announced that he wasn't going to be cast. He had the job, and then he didn't. That's being fired.

Being Robert back as a regular. Brings a fantastic middle grounded opinion and different POV to this group. Love him!

Definitely was more excited about Cavill's Man of Steel returning than I am about this entire slate of projects..

As the saying goes, when all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail. With James Gunn, every solution is Guardians of the Galaxy

After firing Cavill and keeping Miller? I bloody well hope so.

*"How many times do they have to rewrite your story?!"* - Goku to Superman in Epic Rap Battles of History

Robert’s perspective on a reverse kingdom come would actually be quite cool,

Henry Cavill coming back as Superman got me excited for the DCEU going forward. James Gunn's DCEU plan doesn't appeal to me whatsoever outside of the Batman sequel. Shazam and Superman fighting Black Adam in a live action movie would have been awesome, but unfortunately that will not happen.

Thank you for inviting Robert Myer Burnett on your program Drinker! In the ever expanding pantheon of great KZfaq movie critics/commentators, he is one of the most eloquent and insightful. I would love to see a panel where both Burnett and Chris Gore are on at the same time!

3:05 Zack Snyder wasn’t the one who ruined DC, he actually had a plan that got derailed by the executives pretty quickly at the beginning of all of this… to blame him and put the DC EU failure all on his shoulders is a bit unfair

Robert made some excellent points and had great insight! Interesting discussion

Cool to see Robert on the panel. Very knowledgeable guy in the industry.

I think Rippa got it spot on with what I'm worried about. I'm not worried as much about who James Gunn is choosing to bring into the universe as so much as to how he will choose to translate the mythos. Will he stay true enough to honor the people who value these little known or well-known characters or will he simply use this as a vehicle to tell his own narrative and express his quirkiness and humor even when they don't necessarily apply to the character archetypes and situations. I loved the Wildcats and Swamp Thing. Like Damian although Dick Grayson will always be my favorite but he is Nightwing. A little worried about the juxtaposition of an older Batman and younger Superman because it offsets the yin and yang effect they have on one another that keep then respectively balanced. He following a lot from Morrison's take on green lantern as an intergalactic lawman but we'll see. Hope we get some good stuff

Henry was born to play superman,shame they can't make 1 good superman movie

Rippa, the day you can make your comic book into a movie, have Henry Cavill in it!

I don't just want a universe with stuff happening here and there. I want a universe building to something. I want it to matter. I want it to cover major storylines, instead of skipping everything and jumping around.

What Robert Burnette said - could make sense and help draw the heroes we know together. But the question is, do they have time to do that properly. What Robert is talking about is an epic story. And it will take many movies to set that story up well. Does the audience have the stamina to wait long enough for that to be delivered?

Swamp Thing tv show from 2019 episode 1 was fantastic and creepy with great atmosphere and effects. The pilot ep seemed high quality and budget! If they keep it exactly like that and it'll be fine. Shame each episode went slowly down hill after that.

Robert is like maybe i entered a bit too pessimistic discord group 😄😄

Eric July nailed it with calling Gunn - O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.

How amazing is it that Gunn wants to do dark and gritty Supergirl flick and the media says nothing . However , they constantly whined and complained about Batman V superman and Man of Steel being too dark just because they were directed by Snyder.

The take of Eric July on James Gunn: 👍👍👏

Hope Nathan Fillion plays booster gold

Robert was so awesome on. Love it when he’s involved

Yeah, let's fire Cavill, keep Ezra Miller and make a TV series about fan favorite Amanda Waller. Maybe James Gunn is still secretly working for Marvel? It will explain everything.

Why did they make the detective show without the world's greatest detective just seems like the stupidest move.

Can such a subversive individual like James Gunn make a film about a truly sincere character like Superman?

It's always an instant watch for me when Robert Meyer Burnett is on.

At this point they should bring the people who wrote the DCAU to write for the DCU, they knew what they were doing.

i think the mistake they made was announcing a new DCU at all. If they just said Gunn was now gonna be handling the DC property on screen and help have more focused stories, they could have convinced the audience to go see seemingly unrelated movies. But to display a 10 years plans is like Netflix trying to sell a new show knowing they cancelled five before. Just make one good movie. Then see where to go from there.

I think Henry Cavill being so adamant that source material be adhered to is what pead Gunn to fire him, or "fix the glitch". I just thing James Gunn doesn't want to be locked into canon, and that telling his own story will be easier without the face of the franchise making it hard for him to do so.

The fact that Gunn seems to be spending more time on twitter than in the actual writing room is a big red flag. Also, I am tired of repeating this, but why did he had to recast the trinity if he is keeping his stuff from 'The Suicide Squad' and 'Peacemaker'?

I agree with Robert. That Batman/Deathstroke movie needs to happen.

I get Gunn wanting to start with creature commandos and more obscure names, his home runs are from taking characters people don’t know and making them household names.

We are gonna have his wife in EVERY DAMN movie and tv show.

I think Lanterns and Booster Gold have the most potential for a shared universe. As Gunn said, Jordan and Stewart are investigating some cosmic threat. Booster Gold is from the future -- so he might already know about how that cosmic threat played out. Maybe the Justice League all died fighting Krona, and that's in Booster's history books -- but now that he's back in time, he can stop that. Now, a guy who was a loser has the potential to be the greatest hero ever, saving the past.

There's one man who should be in James Gunn's role at DC. He used to run a comic book store, he's got a magnificent beard, wears glasses and his name starts with G and ends in ary Beuchler.

Just watched Nerdrotic's reaction before this video, and the vibe I'm getting from you guys, and my own feelings as a comic book normie, is "...Okay?" We're trying to keep an open mind, but having a hard time being interested.

I'm going to take a wait to see attitude...I realize that this lineup may not be sexy,but I'm sure everything will work together in a bigger concept...The Green Lanterns will be the key to all this as the direction is uncovered- I agree with Rob-

THANK you. I've believed that Gunn was the most overrated film maker ever since GOTG 1 came out. I was going to say I don't know why they chose him, but I do; it's because they have no imagination. What I don't know is how they signed off on what he's announced they're going to do.

Awesome panel with guys at the top of their games. Great discussions and everybody had great points. My issue is that Gunn admitely said it's a soft reboot with viewers basically joining in a DC Universe already existing. That pauses a real problem and it reminds of when in the comics they did Crisis of Infinite Earth in the comics. DC at the time had many Universe and they did this event to clean things up to create one cohesive Universe. But the issue was that they picked and chose what they liked about the previous Universe and what they picked and what they didn't. Like some meeting between heroes happened, these stories happened. So since the new Universe didn't have a Supergirl, they had to say like when the Legion met Supergirl, it was actually a similar girl called Andromeda. In the long run it created further messes and they had to do other reboots along the way. When in truth they should have completely reboot DC Universe back in the day. Like no versions of the main heroes from WW2, just say that everything starts now, the heroes starts now. This is the same issue here: They are gonna use Damian Wayne as sidekick for Batman. That means, Batman is gonna be at his 6th Robin. That means he's gonna be an older Batman, probably in his early 40s. But in my opinion all the main heroes should have the same age. So why have a young Superman, then? A Supe in his 20s and Bat in his 40s makes no sense. Might as well bring Cavill back. And that show the hypocrisy of Gunn here. Going back to Crisis, if he wanted to use a young Superman, fine. But why not do that for all characters and start from scratch? A whole new Universe where you start introducing the characters for the first time? So that all main characters would start together and you would have them for 20 years. I'm not even saying doing another origin. Characters like Supe, WW, Batman and GL we already have seen their origin but do something at the beginning of their careers. You could do origin stories for the new actors playing Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunters and all others, though. And we would get to meet a young Dick Grayson for the first time. Which is what it should be. (For Hawkman, I would borrow a story from the comics, an event called "Invasion" and make it the first new Justice League movie where Earth is invaded by various races like the Thanagarians,/Hawkman's people and the Justice League has to fight them and Katar Hol switch sides during the battle to side with Earth and become a hero and member of the JL)

The fact that Superman and Batman are supposed to be contemporaries but they’ve got Bruce w Damian and Clark is supposed to be 25 is kinda confusing

I watched all of Black Adam just to see Henry Cavill at the end.

I agree with Eric but I do think RMB could be right. I can see the Authority being utilised as some form of protagonist that gives rise to The Trinity/JL

Also you can't build a universe with just batman who's always in Gotham and superman in Metropolis.

He needed to wipe the slate. He didn't. It needs to be clear and easy to follow for audiences.

If the new Superman ends up being a man of colour or if he ends up being sidelined by Supergirl, then surely Gunn's DCU will be a disaster!

To me, Gunn is nearly a perfect peer of Taika Waititi. Imagine if Feige put Waititi in charge of the MCU going forward. It's baffling, if you're not a Hollywood conspiracy theorist.

What severely bugs me, is that Waller is supposed to be the bridge between Peacemaker Season 1 and 2, and in season 2 John Cena and the og cast are returning. So this D lister led show is allowed to keep the same cast, but Henry Cavill isn't allowed to come back.

What little I saw of swamp thing( in a mates dingy with an eye patch on) looked pretty good. WB can do what Disney can’t and go hard R with appropriate characters

I grew up watching the 1978 Superman movie so much I wore out 2 VHS tapes of it. Superman has always been my favorite hero. I will not watch anything DC puts out under Gunn's direction until they bring back Cavill.

Man I love Rob! The eternal optimist:)

OMG - Robert Meyer Burnett!!! This is a CLASH of youtubers. I can't wait to hear what this is going to be like.

How many people watched the DC films solely for Cavill? I know I did. How many more will now _avoid_ them because Ezra Miller has been kept on? I know I will. Gets rid of the honey; keeps the vinegar. Well done, Mr Gunn.

*I just knew the minute he announced* “Elseworlds” that the Snyder fans would clamour to say “Just put the Snyderverse in Elseworlds then everyone is happy” like it’d make sense to have TWO justice league franchises happening simultaneously that cos 200 million dollars

After seeing the first “phase” I can say my hype level is now in the Negative territory…

Suicide Squad 2 was a solid entry and I would be up for a third film. But DC movies have been a mess and quality all over the place. But Gunn has a track record for good quality "Comic Book" movies so we'll see. More plot and chracter development and less CGI.

Where can I watch the full stream?

Jeremy doesn't like the Snyderverse ever since Zach parred him off lol.

Great video and excellent discussion. I throughly enjoyed hearing everyone's takes. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who was underwhelmed by Gunn's announcement.

Paradise Lost??? Hey, finally! I mean, we've needed the original poem by John Milton brought to the silver screen DECADES ago! Wow, I can't wait to see it! ... ... ... ........ oh.... THAT Paradise Lost.... meh....

I am completely here for a James Gunn Swamp Thing, that sounds awesome!

What is truly confusing is Gunn is saying that Cavill wasn't right for his young 20 something Superman but now he has an older Batman and a younger Superman in the same universe. I thought they were contemporaries in the comics not different generations. Just an excuse to screw over Cavill once again.

To be honest, he's laid out a game plan - been pretty open about it - he's obviously looking to build his selected characters before throwing them into group up's and building them up for the event movies. I think that's much much better than anyting that has come before with Snyder, Johns or Hamada. His selection of characters to work on though was .... interesting to be polite. However, Iron Man was a D lister for Marvel back in 2008 as well so it completely depends on what he does with them.

Great to see Robert here. Wish his camera was more stable though. Also what was that screeching sound in the video?

I don’t know how to feel. We’re getting out of the Snyderverse - but we might still be keeping Snyder’s Flash, Aquaman, and Shazam. James Gunn is in charge - but he’s been iffy lately and he got rid of Cavill. New Batman - Damian as Robin. Why? It could all work out and end being good but I’m just baffled about most of the decisions. “We’re cleaning house, but I’m still keeping the stuff I like.” Okayyyy

If you listen closely, Gunn lists off all the same writers, directors, producers, and actors that have been active in the super hero genre over the last 10yrs. You know, the same people that have been churning out non-stop spandex clad trash for Disney and WB. You'd be stupid to think the reboot won't be any other than more of all the the stuff that's ruined the genre.

The only thing that peaks my interest, so far, is the Pattinson’s Batman sequel. That’s it. Couldn’t care less about this “new DCU”.

They're doing Booster Gold?! He's my favorite Green Lantern!

Rob rules! So excited for the possibilities this new direction has!

Gunn is turning whole thing into his personal vanity project. Its not even about DC.

I liked Snyders stuff, I watched most of the DC stuff eventually but Snyders movies are the only ones I went to the cinema for. I even waited for the DVD release of Nolans Batman flicks, still can't be arsed to watch the new (ish) Batman. Enjoyed Gunns Suicide Squad & Peacemaker. Strikes me Legion of Superheroes would be in Gunns wheelhouse. Lots of weird characters that are far enough outside of normal continuity to do what he wants with them. Heck he could even have cast Superboy and kept Henry.

I think the mistake they made was announcing a new DCU at all. If they just said Gunn was now gonna be handling the DC property on screen and help have more focused stories, they could have convinced the audience to go see seemingly unrelated movies. But to display a 10-year plan is like Netflix trying to sell a new show knowing they cancelled five before. Just make one good movie. Then see where to go from there. I get Gunn wanting to start with creature commandos and more obscure names, his home runs are from taking characters people don’t know and making them household names.

Robert pushing the new season of Picard reminds me of Gore pushing She Hulk, its all great tv jaja

I think to make all this worthwhile you'd need a string of hits with the big name characters to get people invested. You're counting on a lot of word of mouth at first. Marvel is in the tubes, this is the moment to strike. However, it's so hard to trust modern Hollywood to even get one in a row right, so that might be too many rolls of the dice.

Why Robert gotta shill for Picard ?

"Henry wasn't fired, he just wasn't hired." First off, that's not true, in the sense that Cavill was confirmed (and told by management) to announce his return as Superman. Now, whether his contract SPECIFICALLY stated "in this iteration of the DCEU", who knows, but the fact of the matter is, the main DC cinematic universe going forward had Cavill as Superman, and then, once Gunn jumped in, Cavill was no longer Superman. Plus, the idea of "he just wasn't hired", is silly, because THEY ARE THE ONES WHO DO THE HIRING. It's not like "Oh, the Magic 8 Ball said Cavill shouldn't be Superman anymore". Gunn and the DC leadership have the power to hire whoever they want, so they made the explicit decision to look for someone NOT Henry. Imagine if I was like "We are releasing another Iron Man movie with Tony Stark, but he won't be played by RDJ. Gwenyth Paltrow will return as Pepper, Joe Favreau as Happy Hogan, as Don Cheadle as Rhodey, but Tony Stark will be played by a completely different person, for no reason." A full reboot, with a truly clean slate, would have seen every single character recast. However, that was never going to happen, since Gunn was never going to let go of his own creations (PeaceMaker, Suicide Squad, etc). But the fact that Gadot and Momoa, and even Ezra Miller, the Scourge of Hawaii, seem to be staying, asks that "If they were actively hired, why wasn't Cavill"? I have no doubt that someone in the current leadership actively sought to prevent Cavill from keeping the role. Someone doesn't like him.

I think Gunn make mistakes by following MCU style movie lineup instead movies of each heroes story that didn't need extensive continuity only prior movie knowledge, each hero each own story to tell that's it

I recently watched a behind the scenes video with Bruce Timm talking about making Justice League Unlimited. Dear God why can’t we get creatives that understand these characters and world building like he does to be in charge again?

Hearing they’re doing a tv series with Booster Gold sounds awesome. And that’s excitement just from from seeing his one episode in JL/JLU. There’s some interesting stuff here. I don’t think announcing “every JL member is getting a movie” would be exciting on its own. That’s expected, and several of them _are_ getting movies/series anyway (Superman, Batman, Green Lantern). So it’s not like nothing’s coming.

Link to whole stream?

Given how badly the DCU has been handled he has to start somewhere, he is just sticking to what works for him

Who had the washing machine on in the background? Audio levels are too high. Beyond that, there seems to be far too much head canon in anything positive said. Gunn didn't actually say anything like what Robert or Mauler was saying "could" or "might" happen.

My views: 1 - We (the fans) know who Gunn is - TROTW doesn't. He's no Feige, in terms of position or stature. 2 - Could the Young Superman not have been done later, after a trilogy with Cavill being first? Could he not have made Young Superman as something Cavill's Superman would lead to - a kind of Cavill's Superman thinking back or some accident that takes him back in time? I would have loved to have seen that Reeve scene recreated when he "interfere with human history" and Cavill wrestles with that and eventually does it, for whatever reason and we get a Young Superman appear, at the end of the third Cavill film, paving the way for future films. 3 - No matter what people think (and I was one of them), I really liked Affleck's Batman. I would have liked to have had him back again. 4 - I liked the edgy, angry, dark world of Snyder, as described by Drinker and others, (although I personally didn't feel it was all those things), so I would have enjoyed Gunn continuing with at least some of that atmosphere. I don't know what to make if his announcement; underwhelming, self-indulgent, bewildering, confused, DOA - or all of the above!!

Nice to see Robert there!

Rippa, has the best criticism of Gunn’s universe. I’ll go as far as it’s DOA.

Watched a rant of Razorfist and he brought up that most trends last 10 or so years before fatigue sets in. Pretty sure people are looking for new interests that are different to yester years stories and tropes. Gunn wont bring anything different that has not be done before.

I don't necessarily hate this, nor do I love it. It might suck or maybe he'll surprise me.

From a quality standpoint, who knows? From a business standpoint, definitely.

Good Lord, how about we just give him a chance. The books he's pulling from... All-Star Superman, and a lot of other Grant Morrison stuff, that's EXACTLY what we've been saying we wanted from WB/DC: Superheroes as Gods doing God-like stuff... not the New-52 / Frank Miller-inspired sturm und drang mixed with silly WW84 and Aquaman stuff we've gotten instead.

The more I hear James Gunn talk about the DCU the more I'm convinced Disney hired him to take this job, and destroy what little hope the DCU had.

I want to see Henry Cavill play an ElseWorld All-star Superman

Not a perfect solution but what if they cast Henry Cavil as Ultraman? 🤔

Wow they got Jeremy AND Mr Rippa?? I gotta watch the full episode

Superman and Batman are what sells the entire DC and they already axed Cavil who was perfect for the role! I dont know if its DOA but its not a great start and they are already going down the wrong path and annoying fans with this weird decision of removing someone who is a perfect fit for the role.

I appreciate James Gunn trying to popularize new heroes like he did with Guardians of the Galaxy. My only concern is of care for the source material. I want to see these characters as their creator intended, even if you update aspects of the characters. I don’t want to see more superheroes turned into comedians.

I agree in that I think Snyder isn't very good. He's one movie good and somehow was given keys to the kingdom and failed miserably. And he got replaced by Gunn, who is one movie good and given the keys to the kingdom. I don't get it.

What is the thread between these properties

The audio was absolutely atrocious on this video

I think it is ridiculously contrarian to bash Snyder's work. It was a specific take on the characters. Not enjoying that take on the characters is fine, but it's kind of ridiculous to dismiss those films completely. I think studio meddling had more to do with any problems than any overarching narrative problems that couldn't have been addressed over time.