IdeasOfIceAndFire Brian Herbert is not his father, so his fictive books dosen't count.

no. Brian found notes and floppy disks. Frank was going to expand it

and Brian did a very good job on it

true

No, he pretty much fethed it all up after the first few "House X" books...which were a bit off, but could be covered by the vagueness of the backstory there and the difference in style of Brian and Kevin Andersen. Where Brian truly screwed the pooch was when he decided to toss The Dune Encyclopedia , which Frank himself had declared to be canon, but probably incomplete. We know 100% for sure that Frank gave McNelly access to his (Frank's) actual background notes for the Dune universe storyline that he (Frank) actually planned to write about. Brian reduced an epic and glorious 20,000 year history into....a few centuries of dregs conflating all kinds of crap to "touch base" with various things that Frank had confirmed solidly about what was in The Dune Encyclopedia. Heh, all you really have to do is look at the backstory for the 40K universe since a good chunk of the concepts were ripped off by Games Workshop.

in the Butlarian Hijad prequal books earth is bombed as it is the thinking machines main planet.

@@edwinsuijkerbuijk5106 it would be interesting to imagine how many times in 20,000 years, humanity would have to restart from scratch because of some war or disaster. Maybe Dune could be the sequel to the matrix, humanity freed itself and scattered into the cosmos fleeing what was left of Earth after the machines had their way.

That's stupid.

Pretty sure copper sheet won't last 20,000 years.

Brilliant!👍😋

here's my opinion on that.. we have to leave our cradle but we can visit our fond memories

It's actually a terrible, and even harmful analogy. Because it suggest that we don't need to take care of our "cradle" since we'll just move to other planets anyway - when in reality, that cradle is all we have and probably all we'll ever have. Earth isn't our cradle, it's our home. We can look outside, we can venture outside, but there's no place like home.

@@Ezullof it's literally the opposite and you told it yourself, it's our only home TODAY so we have to take care of it, but it can't be our home eternally, even taking care of it in time we would consume most of it surface resources, that's why getting out of the cradle is the best option for both humanity and Earth

⁠@@rodrigobogado8756this! Even if we fix climate change, make the greatest economic system ever, etc etc, the Earth will only last so long. We must leave the cradle because to not is to never grow up.

"Earth is the planet of humanity, but one cannot live in the planet forever. Contrariwise- yes they can." Me

And the fate of Earth in Asimov's Foundation series.

Well one of our worlds of origin is sirius...so not everything is forgotten. 😉

pepperidge farm remembers

Except, of course, that we're already in the information age. There's relatively little data left behind from earlier peoples. Earth data would have been copied out into the first colonies and such. Moreover, only one of the peoples you mentioned, the Sumerians, had written language. Without writings, you can only glean a little about a people.

Except, of course, within the context of Dune, "the information age" means nothing. The Jihad wasn't against just robots. Herbert wrote it specifically as "thinking machines." This would include computers. That's why Mentats exist. And, in the fervor of what amounts to a religious crusade against such devices, do you really expect them to take the time to make hard copies of all that stored data before smashing them? So much for the information age being of any help remembering Earth.

Gotta garble the name. "Spice-Vision of Folding Stars," by the Frankonnen artist Vene Goga.

Was that is a movie?! That would be fitting,my favorite artist,and favorite painting.🌌🌉

They have in their possession. If they are possessed then they need an exorcist.

Wrong Seven Seas17! It was a Van Gough, but not Starry Night. It was The Thatched Cottages at Cordeville.

@@ddmagee57 Thumbs up. It's on Chapterhouse planet.

The difference is that people from the modern age forward (barring some kind of global catastrophe) have much better record keeping technology than ice age humans did..... Knowing about the existence of New York City, for example, goes from being impossible to just being incredibly obscure knowledge. Yeah, most people would never have heard of Brooklyn, but extremely well educated people would likely at least recognize the name, even if it's only like us having heard of Sumer..... and then there's the Bene Gesserit who would have memories of having lived in the place.

The valley of Awash isn't evidenced to be where Homo sapiens began. That's just where they found 'Lucy'. The most complete remains of Australopithecus aferensis, an ancestor of Homo sapiens.

unrealistic for galactic civilization thogh, unless they're all become primitive again in each planet they live in at one point, we know about gobekli tepe even if we have no record of it besides the ruins, how can a galactic civilization lost the knowledge about the beginning of interstellar migration? unrealistic af

Your thought is possible. We now write books of history and we are constantly researching in our past to try to know where we are from. But it was also done by any big civilization in the past. It's famous the case of the library of Alexandria where who knows how much of the knowledge of the helenic civilization was lost. Now, despite we have different technologies for saving information, I'm not sure how much time it will last. We think that we are far most advanced than the previous civilizations and that we are not going to be so stupid to let our common knowledge to be lost, but sometimes I wonder how is it possible that almost 90% of the films done before to 1929 are actually lost! Now I wonder what will happen to all this information on the internet, which I consider it's still very new technology to us. I don't know if at the end of my life (that I presume it will be at the end of this century) all this information (as this very video or comment), will be available. It will depend if the future generations consider that this information deserve to be preserved, and it will depend also of their situation. What will they think after a new world war happens?

Humanity is actually from the southern parts of the African continent. Near botswana I believe.

the spice must flow

Two Bits Spice and Fire?

Aye yoooooooooio

Me too. I was introduced to Dune by a friend who is also a fan of ASOIAF. He thinks of himself as a member of House Martell, by the way. Now that I've read Dune, I see why.

The spice beer goes to your head.

Of course, the plans were on display for the last fifty years at the field office in Alpha Centauri, why wouldn’t they?

I mean Alpha Centuri is only four light years away you know

@@tanyapowell8577 I've no sympathy at all.

Of course it was! Everybody knows that! If you don't then you've had one too pan-galactic gargle blasters! :=)

Though the dolphins did try to warn the humans.

Who knows, maybe humanity won't live long enough to leave earth.

@@JohnSmith-dd8bf Let's hope humanity can overcome it's darker impulses. Preserve the natural beauty of this world and at a minimum journey to neighboring worlds in our Solar System.

@@user-ol7bt4wp1j At least it's fiction you know? Unless you were preborn and have consumed spice and know things we don't?? But fr this planet's animals are pretty cool, I personally like Orcas and Grizzly Bears so yeah

definitely trippy to think about!

The more I learn about Dune, the more the similarities with Star Wars become even more glaring, particularly when it comes to this lost origin of mankind. In SW, nobody truly knows where Humans appeared, but it's believed to be Coruscant, well before the gargantuan ecumenopolis that engulfed the planet later on.

Interesting theory.

I think you’re onto something here, I really do. That thought has occurred to me, too. This dude had enough to deal with building up all this mythology and background for the Dune universe, and trying to get an “active” earth into the mix, too, might’ve been something that would’ve made the whole thing seem too...unwieldy...and less exotic.

That and he was influenced by Asimov's universe.

True, but things of importance these days get transferred to new formats. For example my family videos used to be on VHS tape, but were long ago transferred to digital on CD/ DVD. Then a decade later transferred online to Google photos, Onedrive, etc. I can still play Nintendo games from the 1980s, on a pc or phone, or even just a web browser, despite not having a physical hardware from the 80s.

@Brenden Malloy Computers will be preserved. The knowledge of the technology will be preserved. It will be a high school course exercise to build a machine that reads data from the 20th century. There will be courses on the cultural differences between the eras to help future civilizations understand our writing. I have no fear of our past being forgotten, as long as humanity survives. Data can be stored in such a small space these days. All of history and sciences and literature fits in one cubic meter of storage devices.

Also, can I just say that the font you're using for your videos reminds me so much of reading old 70s and early 80s sci-fi novels as a kid? It's amazingly nostalgic.

Temporal history verifies Shelley's observation.

@@johnfdzurakjr111 Temporal history inspired Shelley's observation.

Jim Fortune - So true, Jim, ha, ha.

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay of that colossal wreck, the lone and level sands stretch far away....

Starflight is one of my favourite games of all time.

I remember finding Earth. Brilliant game.

That game was one of the best ever made. The sequel Is great also

The original books of Dune, by Frank do not explain what happened to Earth. But his son, Brain and Kevin J. Anderson, with notes from Frank himself, wrote a lot of other books to give us the whole and big picture of what Dune's universe is all about. You will like the book after Children of Dune, God Emperor ... Enjoy !!!

In the movie version of Dune, Paul uses atomics to breach the walls surrounding the Harkonnen HQ in Arakeen. But, as with everything else about Dune, who knows what theory is correct!😉

@Jay Leno It is why the Stoneburner used against Muad'Dib in Dune Messia was such a crime. Then atomics were used against people.

During Butlerian Jihad, human used nuclear to shutdown rogue artificial inteligence. But the book was not written by Frank Herbert himself, so I'm not clear whether it's canon or not.

@@boulderbash19700209 it was done with notes he found by his father on a whole bunch of books .

God Emperor Leto II refers to it as a "planet that no longer exists", and he could see all the way back into caveman days. That sounds pretty deliberate and final to me. Not existing isn't the same as being forgotten.

Clearly the dolphins still remember Earth

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good one

wow, and in real life, we are really shitting all over Eden

Try telling that to Frank Herbert's son.

Well like the real location (the Tanakh actually quite specific on it and it is the meeting of the great rivers (both still existing and dried) of Mesopotamia aka Iraq (only stuff that doesn’t work is Eden is region in Yemen)) is far than the ideal location the stories make it out to be

@@chimera9818 Not true the region has drastically changed, this is evident in it's description of the changes of the rivers surrounding it alone. Furthermore Eden was a garden it was a habitat actively maintained by God, the wild untamed nature was everywhere outside of the "garden" of Eden.

And if my memory is not leading me astray, I believe the Dune Encyclopedia (whose information was completely ignored by Brian Herbert's prequel novels) also mentioned Earth being reseeded after the disaster and left as a park.

You are right. I'll include some of the relevant dates from the chronology: "14100-13600 The Little Diaspora. The solar system is colonized, and the population of Terra is eventually outnumbered 20 to 1. 13402 Ceres gains the Imperial Seat after a planetoid strikes Terra. 13402-13399 The rescue of the treasures from Terra. 13360 Terra re-seeded and set aside (by Imperial edict) as a natural park." No mention of it afterwards.

@@NikovaRaskol I no longer have the encyclopedia, but that's exactly how I remember it

IIRC, Herbert said he liked the Dune Encyclopedia, but kept his own council on how accurate it was...

@@tigerhorse6321 True, but the prequels and sequels throw pretty much the entire Encyclopedia in the trash. Maybe a few big changes would be fine, but the expanded universe does not reflect an inkling of the Encyclopedia. That’s why BH and KJA have discontinued the printing of it, so they could sell 20+ books instead of just 7.

@@user-ol7bt4wp1j -- If we don't destroy ourselves first.

you could probably enter a simulation much like the holodeck, which your senses would not be able to distinguish the difference between that and real life, with the technology we would have by then, so dont be too sad.

I totally agree he has a good narrator voice

Yes, his voice and that of the actor Matthew Broderick’s are quite similar! Go back and watch the movie: “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” and 👂 listen to Broderick’s narration and listen to this speaker. 🤙🏼

maybe foundation could be a prequel for dune universe. with after the war of thinking machines so too the last memory of earth was lost and forgotten.

Good idea, :)) its fun to shake the youngsters entertainment ideas up a bit sometimes. X) you can add Foundation Series too. ;)

Dune the book takes place roughly around 22,000 AD and 10,191 AG in Dunes calendar, the last book by Herbert himself begins in 27,002 AD and 15,193 AG in Dunes calendar . but there are a series of other books by his son and some co-written with Kevin J Anderson ..but they are an acquired taste

@@alexandermcgill7250 I finally read that timeline recently. Even more staggering.

Not too hard if you put a few thousand years in between each novel and just describe it as time gone by. 😛

@@alexandermcgill7250 They are based off of notes about the backstory that were written by Frank, so yeah, they may take so license to fill in the blanks, but it's still his story, and most of these KZfaq vids I see try to act like those books don't exist, or at least aren't cannon...

😂

Definitely foundation

Thats foundation for sure

Truly original writers/story-tellers are few and far between.

Both of these books were built on the shoulders of previous, epics. Foundation by Asimov for dune for example. It is true they are near impossible to match now though, Im trying my best lol

Lol the Sun will become larger and destroy Earth and most of the Solar system before growing colder and dimmer! Real life science bro :-)

The timeline given is based on the Guild Calendar, so year 10,191 of the spacing guild count. The... controversial prequels imply at least that much time again had passed since the first space age.

Did Herbert happen to mention whether Earth was flat or spherical? It would go a long way to clearing up the debate.

You would have if you had read the Dune series. I did and remember all those passages quoted.

To be sure, though, the whole notion of 10,191 years only being "post-Guild founding" years (and not "10,191 A.D.") actually comes straight from Frank Herbert himself, and was also used in the pre-Brian/Kevin _Dune Encyclopedia_ , so this is one of the very few things that they are innocent on. ;)

The fate of the earth is recounted in the prequel books. In fact, the same day earth is destroyed is also the same day the feud between the Harkonnen and Atraedes begins.

& the 2nd moon is the Death Star! 😉

For some reason nowadays they seem to want to erase their history

It's ok, you can say Russia as well. Don't be scared. The Indo-Europeans were from the pontic-caspian steppe which also includes Russia, you can also include the steppe of Kazakhstan as well.

I do... Always have. And have tried to share that interest spark of curiosity in my children.. Now adults it shows in them and their children, and friends. There's more people than we realise that have a curiosity and interest in shared human origins, growth of cultures, shared human values

@@AlphardusRussia doesn't exist bruhhhh

the Emperor is making the 20 original Astartes ready for unifying humanity under his powerful mantle.

Mickey Bitsko Earth fell into a state of anarchy

Sadly I know that ain't the canon. Machines rose up and we had no choice but to NUKE the Planet into a ball of Radioactive dust for 50 thousand Years before a single blade of grass can grow

Mickey Bitsko 20,000 years seems like a long time to us mortals. Like you said, it's an eye blink. It's only 1 tenth of Human history and not even a blip in Earth's history.

That would make another good book.

Not if it was wiped out.

Nations described as "Tribes" and the world wars described as "raids". The perspective differs when going from planetary to galactic levels of warfare. Personally liked Dune Encyclopedia. I still have a copy.

To me, Dune is a series written for adults, while Foundation is written for adolescents.

Caladan is a planet of Delta Pavonis. Delta Pavonis is one of our suns closest neighbours, about 19 lightyears from here. Dune is one of the planets of Canopus, wich is 300 lightyears from here. So in terms of guild space travel, earth is right next door. On the other hand, the spacing guild is in complete control of who goes where. Tupile could be right next to Kaitain and still be off limits or even unknown for the emperror. But sadly, 'is gone' is quite a damning statement. When Dune was written, nuclear war was a very real possibility and there are precedents in the books, like Salusa Secundus, for fertile worlds turned into nuclear wastelands. It might explain why people are so touchy about atomics in the Imperium.

@@tomitiustritus6672 If you choose to engage with the prequels Earth was destroyed using atomics during the first major battle of the Butlarian Jihad.

Copper, I once had the same book (long lost), and if I remember correctly, according to the Dune Encyclopedia, Earth was struck by an asteroid, _a la_ Chixulub, and rendered uninhabitable. By that time Humanity was already spread throughout the Sol System and the seat of government had been moved to Ceres.

Paul Anderson late start

Good thought. I have speculated that there are probably good reasons to why that is. Just a couple thoughts. Either: A. The Guild wouldn't allow it. Hence an on-going plot by the intellectuals at repressing knowledge and discovery even before Leto's rise to godhood. or B. There is no reason as there is nothing there, and would be considered a waste of time.

If Earth's surface has been so utterly destroyed that it is unable to sustain life anymore, there is no reason to go to Earth, even if the Spacing Guild knew where it was. It would be a waste of resources (namely Spice). That's what Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson describe in their version of the Butlerian Jihad. I'm not that fond of their work (the last two chapters of Dune were for me a disappointment), but it is a logical explanation.

Xerxes2005 that doesn't explain why everyone largely forgot its existence especially if it was the catalyst of the jihad. And because its a 15,000 year frachise, theres largely no reason they couldve reterraformed it or something.

Krump option A would make more sense cuz even if they felt going back was a waste of time, it wouldn't explain why everyone would forget its existence if it was the catalyst for the jihad.

Why would they do that? The Old Imperium already had thousands of worlds to inhabit. Humanity did not need Earth anymore. It would have been a waste to try to terraform it. After 15,000 years of not doing anything on Earth, people stopped thinking about it, and forgot it. It became a place of myths like the garden of Eden.

Yes unite the galaxy under one rule to bring peace. And then we can overthrow it for freedom. And repeat forever I guess.

@@maxfmfdm Circle of life. We're born, learn, forget, die, repeat.

"Strategic Launch Detected"

the Emperor Protects, big emp is using his psycher powers to keep the earth hidden.

Arrakis is mentioned to orbit Canopus, a real star 300 lightyears from earth. Its one of the brighter ones, so it fits with the desert planet thing.

I had the same impression, but it doesn't seem to be the case. That, or the Ixians took over, and it became Ix, the banned planet... but it doesn't seem to be the case either...

Western culture has only entertained the idea that humans are part of the earth, since the birth of the environmental movement. A lot of people are still in denial about this. It is far worse than forgotten. Many don't want to know.

Hardly, if humans survive long enough, we will be far removed from the earth

@@wiretamer5710 humanity has been always fucking mental about the middle kingdom in every civilization, I don't think we will forget the earth, it's not about a speck of dust floating in space, but about your roots, that's why DNA tests are so popular right now.

robadamson1 Also Hyperion and a lot of Bradbury stories. It's a common trope for some reason

It's a "common trope" because most good science fiction tries to teach us a lesson. It's social commentary. The authors realize, at least on some level, what humans can and will do to each other and their environment and try to make a statement about it. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that many of these stories reflect the times they are written in, and often hit home. The broadcast of The War of the Worlds affected people largely due to it happening during the inter-war period leading up to World War II. Alien invasion and attack, not so different in premise from worry about the Nazis possibly invading us, especially since they had already invaded territories during the prior year. So, too, with the film version of The War of the Worlds, as well as Dr. Strangelove, both of which feature atomic bombs. Our fear of a nuclear war. And then, the whole slew of B-list "alien invasion" films starting in the 1950s. Again, probably resonating with us (and inspired by) because of a fear of the Soviets invading and/or destroying us during the Cold War. Even Star Trek tried to warn us about the dangers we face. Too much ambition not tempered with wisdom lead to the Eugenics Wars. And the third world war which devastated our civilization prior to First Contact. The Vulcans themselves were the epitome of what happens when passion completely overcomes reason. A civilization that destroyed itself and required 1500 years to rebuild. I do think there was also a hidden lesson in that last bit: total reason overcoming passion can stagnate a people. Likely it took them 1500 years because they had to completely master their emotions. I can't imagine that happened overnight. Humans, on the other hand, rebuilt their civilization in a little over 100 years. As we progressed into the nuclear age, and our technology with such weapons became more refined and more powerful (not to mention chemical and biological warfare), it seems only a natural progression that science fiction would start including stories where our civilization is so totally devastated that would *could* forget such things.

And then Warhammer 40k.

and from Dune to Warhammer 40k

indeed

I think a mix of Google and Elon leads into Neuromancer, that becomes The Matrix, and after that, Dune.

knuke I'm going to steal your quote and get that print on a hat

😂

knuke 👌🐸🌎

one would think that earth will become the beating earth of an intergalactic Empire maybe not in Industrial, or R&D, but culturally, just being the cradle of the human race is reason enough to have an intrinsic value, if they are about all of that of evolving and gene manipulation, Sol system will be even more valuable having the original conditions that make humanity evolve from animals.

Aaron Arguelles well in fairness, most scifi is inspired and based on the real life antics of western civilization which is why. Had the colonization of (mostly) Europe hadnt happened, SciFi would be way different.

Sadder to think NOTHING has ever changed over tens of thousands of years 😢

Warren Register... not "western antics", not "eastern antics", just "human antics", my friend.

Aulis Vaara, very good point. It was the center of order in ancient times, yet now it is a center of chaos. Who knows what will change with the sands of time?

It's very arrogant to think that Earth isn't resilient & humankind could destroy it so easily. I think you give people too much credit & it would stun me if humans could ever leave lasting effects much less be proved more than only to be a temporary(in cosmic terms)blight on a planet that far outlasted us. Well, until our star starts to die & goes supernova in 5 million-ish years.

Pretty Sure 10.000 Years from now We will No longer Be around

@@grussgott0768 That's what they used to say 10.000 years ago. Guess what, we're still here. Never underrestimate the capacity of survival of a civilization.

Christie Brooks ain't no love lost on my part goodbye to a warmongering country goodbye to a warmongering planet

Sounds like the machines kicked our asses and never allowed us back.

Is Trump still God Emperor? :-)