ECM Classika PID: Espresso Brewing, Milk Steaming & Flow Control

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ECM Classika PID: Espresso Brewing, Milk Steaming & Flow Control

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Whole Latte Love

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 91

@threedollarbridge 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for this and the previous video. I just bought this machine from you and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival. Not only was this detailed and paced for a rookie, it covers some of the new accessories and features that had not been covered in other videos. It's another reason I love WLL

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment! Hope you're loving your new machine.

@AC-wl7ve Жыл бұрын

how are you liking the machine?

@litespeed65 2 жыл бұрын

Just sent back my newly ordered Appartamento-never even had water in it. The Classika PID makes sense to me with lot's of control options plus it can steam milk.

@taroman7100 2 жыл бұрын

You made a wise decision. I have owned two Appartamentos and never again!

@Michelsen3K 8 ай бұрын

Super helpful. Thanks for the video!

@Wholelattelovepage 8 ай бұрын

You’re welcome and thanks for the comment!

@jakevan1969 Жыл бұрын

Very helpful. Beautiful machine and grinder. Thanks.

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

You bet!

@mosquito9085 5 ай бұрын

I'd suggest making the espresso first then prepare the milk. Milk cannot sit long, espresso can do it a bit longer.

@markpalmos 2 жыл бұрын

8:20 - The beauty of the metric system... you don't need a scale if you have a measuring cylinder or a way to measure volume... 1ml of water is exactly 1g of water. Good video, thanks.

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

It is beautiful! One catch, espresso does not weigh 1g/ml - especially the crema which makes converting volume to weight tricky!

@markpalmos 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage yes but he was not measuring espresso, just water throughput...

@rohankrishna95 Жыл бұрын

Great review...... most crucial question is - how long does it take for the machine to heat up?

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi w, Thanks for the comment. Time to fully temp stable is about 15 minutes. If you want machine ready and waiting use properly rated appliance or WiFi timer.

@Squilliam-Fancyson 2 жыл бұрын

Thinking about this update for my Classika PID too. I have my doubt though this will work good with the 1 cup filter. If I go as fine as I desire I do not have enough waterflow anyways with the single cup filter.(stock ECM 7-9g, 20KG tamper) Even at full pressure(around 12 ,5 bar). So I do not see a big enough window for reducing waterflow anyways. I'll try again as soon as I got my IMS single filter as well as the IMS shower sieve.

@daisywuwoo1 Жыл бұрын

I found its bit hard to control the steam pressure on classika, everytime the tip hit the surface of milk, it creates big bubbles (heavy cici sound not crispy) wierd to me.

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi oe, always keep the steam tip at least slightly below the milk surface when the steam is on to avoid the big bubbles.

@xandrlsch 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for the video! Which one do you think is better for making espresso, ECM Classika PID or Unica Bezzera PID?

@Wholelattelovepage 9 ай бұрын

Hi x, You are welcome for the video! Both are very capable machines. The Classika has externally adjustable brew pressure. The Unica does not. I prefer switch location on the Classika and the external finishing is a hair nicer. Here's a side by side spec comparison of those machines with current pricing: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MjI1MjUzMDEyMjgwNiw0MzM1MDIwNTA3MTkw

@xandrlsch 9 ай бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for your reply!

@catherineshort4476 2 жыл бұрын

HI Nick I am just bought this machine and am still finding i cant get a velvety texture on my milk despite following numerous frothing vids - my milk is just boring out of the jug? An y suggestions please? thank you

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi cs, It's all about the tip position when frothing. Placement relative to the surface of the milk is critical. You mentioned watching a number of videos. If you have not come across this one I think it's the best frothing for beginners video. Watch, practice and you'll get the technique down: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/araDdtannNHHe3U.html

@OnScreenTheology 2 жыл бұрын

Looking in to buying this machine. Is the flow control an upgrade the I could buy separately and add myself, or is it something that must be purchased as a package with the machine? Thanks!

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Logan, Thanks for the question. If you purchase the machine from us you can purchase the flow control down the road from us for your machine. You'd need to contact or sales dept directly to confirm your previous purchase to place the order.

@julian-earl 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. If you pull the espresso shot first, what’s the typical time before steam is ready, as this is a single boiler? That’s my usual flow. Does it make more sense to steam first then cool it down to pull the shot instead?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Julian, depending on the temp you set in your PID, the Classika takes 2-3 minutes to get to steam temperature after brewing. That's a bit longer than some single boiler machines with smaller boilers, which is why we prefer to steam first, cool down, then pull the shot on this particular machine. AJ

@chadgregory9037 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage getting a LOT of inconsistent answers to this same question across the interwebs

@AC-wl7ve Жыл бұрын

@@chadgregory9037 same. ive heard anywhere from 30 seconds to 6 minutes to go from brewing to steam lol

@Michelsen3K 8 ай бұрын

About 1min. Enough time to prepare milk and stuff. I own one Edit: about 30secs

@jackli2571 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! How long does it take to heat up from brew mode to steam mode? And I have seen videos suggesting multiple water flushes to create space for steam during the switch to steam mode. Is that necessary?

@jackli2571 Жыл бұрын

Forgot to ask, does WLL have a joystick version of the Classika, instead of the knob? Thanks!

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi Jack, you are welcome for the vid! Never found it necessary to flush to create space for steam. Unless I'm missing something flushing adds cool water to the boiler delaying creation of steam.

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi Jack, No option for joystick on the Classika. The Bezzera Unica is a single boiler, PID, E61 group machine with a joystick operated valve: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/bezzera-unica-pid-espresso-machine

@danielleramos9686 2 ай бұрын

hmm. made my shot and pressure is still at 10 for like 10 minutes. i’m scared to clean the port… is this normal?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 ай бұрын

Hi d, Showing pressure in the system after extraction is common and normal. System pressure is measured very close to the pump and behind a one way valve which holds some pressure.

@staglite 2 жыл бұрын

I know that ECM Flow Control Kit comes with a pressure gauge for the group head, but wouldn't it be more beneficial if the guage was a temperature gauge?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi staglite, Thanks for the question. Maybe, but have to say the Classika is very consistent with brew temps unless operated in environment outside of normal room temps so it might not tell you much. On the other hand, with the pressure gauge one can decide to let brew pressure in the group drive their flow control manipulations and in essence do pressure profiling. Pressure gauge also let's you observe and react to changes in brew pressure and see things like pressure drop with puck erosion as a shot progressses.

@staglite 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage Actually I've got the ECM Mechanica V Slim. But I guess the same applies?

@markpalmos 2 жыл бұрын

If one has a machine that does a pre-infusion "wetting", surely for everyday use, this is enough, one wouldn't need to have a machine with flow control? I know some say you can do stuff like use your machine to a "drip coffee" but really, that seems like a waste when v60, Clever Dripper etc work so well... Are there other benefits I'm not seeing, especially given I always have med-light roast, never dark, and most machines you can calibrate the group head pressure to what you like, 9 bars or whatever... so is there another good reason to have this added variable?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Mark, Here's a video covering 2 easy flow control methods with big impact: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l5OBdLKgnbzLZXU.html Long low flow pre-infusions - like 15 seconds of flow before 1st drip are extremely beneficial for relatively fresh from roast specialty coffees. For medium and darker roasts or coffees which are beyond initial freshness higher flow rates to start followed by reducing the flow as the shot progresses helps by not pulling out stale flavors. Marc

@markpalmos 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage I am asking mostly because I am interested in the bezzera matrix de Which does not have this level of control...but you can change the pre-infusion time... I roast my own beans so they are very fresh and always medium light...

@yamcha111 2 жыл бұрын

roughly how long does it take to get to temperature to steam milk, from what i understand it takes a while on single boiler machines

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi y, Yes, single boiler machines do take some time to go from espresso brewing temps to steaming temps. It takes about 40 seconds to be steam ready on the Classika.

@austinschussler713 10 ай бұрын

Would be great if you said "It took X minutes for us to reach steaming temps." rather than just saying "now that we're at temperature.." I want to know how long it takes to heat up from brew temps to steaming temps!

@Wholelattelovepage 10 ай бұрын

Hi as, It's about a minute to reach full steaming temp but you can start steaming about 30 seconds after switching steam on and before reaching the full set temp.

@TheFriskyBoy 6 ай бұрын

hello, how can you do preinphusion without flow control? thank you

@Wholelattelovepage 6 ай бұрын

Hi TFB, Well depends on exactly how you define pre-infusion. If you partially lift the group lever without turning on the pump some water will be released onto the coffee. There's very little pressure behind that and it's probably not enough water to fully saturate the coffee puck. Another method is to open the steam valve to release some pressure from the boiler when you first start a shot. Opening the valve reduces the pressure and flow onto the coffee. Should note that dumping excessive water from the wand can reduce brew water temp on the coffee.

@marcusagren2838 2 жыл бұрын

Why is the machine constantly dripping? Gasket failure?

@MrJusmobile 2 жыл бұрын

When do you start the count? At the flick of the switch or when you see the drip?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi NHm, When you start timing is up to you. Some go from pump on and some from 1st drip. if going from first drip a good extraction will be in the lower end of the 20-30 second range.

@qili9314 2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I am going to buy this machine. I am wondering why your PID display is not black. Looks like on your website and other website the display is black color. I do want to get the chrome display like yours, is that possible?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi QL, In 2021 ECM updated the PID to the silver/chrome look on the Classika. It used to be black so you're just seeing older photos.

@qili9314 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for reply! Im so happy that i can get a sliver display then. XD

@AC-wl7ve Жыл бұрын

how would you compare steam power to something like a gaggia classic pro?

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi AC, With a larger boiler than the Classic steaming power will be higher and last longer. On the flip side, it's a little longer to take the machine from brew temp to steaming temp.

@pugeek 2 жыл бұрын

So explain please how you get an incredible increase in foam during that cut at 21 min just by temping the espresso?!

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

The longer the pitcher sits, the more the foam separates and floats to the top. This is likely what happened while cooling/refilling the boiler and preparing the shot.

@kick0ne 2 жыл бұрын

Hi! Great videos like this make me want to dive into the world of professional grinders... Would you say that this grinder is also suitable for filter coffee and switch between them depending on the circumstances?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi AS, Thanks for the question. This grinder is really intended for espresso grinding. It would be able to grind for filter but takes a lot of adjustment to go from espresso to filter grind size. Always a bit of a compromise to use an espresso focused grinder for brew methods which use a much coarser grind size.

@alexlazaridisf.7276 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video. I've had this machine for over a year with the flow profiler, and it's a lot of fun. Had a question regarding steam wand temperature. What do you set yours at before steaming milk?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

I usually leave my steam temperature around 270F. Going hotter will give you more steam pressure, but also take longer to get up to that temperature. AJ

@ervilha17 Жыл бұрын

How many time does you machine take to warmup both boiler and group head? Im looking to buy it

@alexlazaridisf.7276 Жыл бұрын

@@ervilha17 about 25 minutes. Maybe 20. That seems to be typical of these machines.

@greysuit17 2 жыл бұрын

Can you do back to back shots? How many can you do?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hi gs, Recovery time is fast if just doing shots. By the time you've ground tamped and loaded another shot it should be ready to go. As with just about any espresso machine if you continuously rapid fire extractions there's likely to be some temperature changes over time as the group gets a little warmer.

@greysuit17 2 жыл бұрын

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks!

@janala69 7 ай бұрын

Hi I’m fighting hard to choose between ECM Classika I PID and the Profitec Pro 400. Which one do you think makes the best espresso? I will also make some milk based drinks. ECM has PID and PP400 is HX but how accurate are the temps on PP400 compared to ECM?

@kingofhtefr 5 ай бұрын

I'm trying to decide between these machines, what did you go for?

@janala69 4 ай бұрын

I bought the Pro 400 and love it. No cooling flushes between drinks 👍

@kingofhtefr 4 ай бұрын

@@janala69 thanks mate. Are you happy with the temp control, is it stable?

@janala69 4 ай бұрын

I have a temp gauge on the group head. I usually start the machine with the highest temp and when it reaches around 94C I put the setting to the medium temp and it stays around 92-94C

@kingofhtefr 4 ай бұрын

@@janala69great tip, thank you. I think that's enought control. Do you mean a temp strip like people use on Europiccolas?

@brendanmalloy-painting 2 жыл бұрын

what color is the pid screen on the models you sell now (december 2021)? Some pics show a black screen and some silver?

@Wholelattelovepage 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Brendan, new models are shipping with the silver PID display. AJ

@justinbouchard Жыл бұрын

omg i cannot believe that a machine of that cost would actually send with a plastic tamper reminiscent of those seen on 30$ amazon espresso machines. that is insane to me

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

Hi JB, up until 2-3 years ago even the most expensive machines came with the plastic tamper. Most dual boilers now come with a "real" tamper. In past manufacturers may have gone with reasoning tampers (or other puck prep tools) are a rather personal choice. Rather than adding to the cost of a machine by including a more substantial tamper perhaps they figured it's better to let end users choose their own.

@justinbouchard Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think you're right. The tamper is a personal choice. Which is why I might have gotten so emotional about it lol

@Wholelattelovepage Жыл бұрын

@@justinbouchard It's all good!

@deevnn Жыл бұрын

justin...most people who are into this level of espresso brewing have their own gear...actually better than what's being offered at this scale up item. So it's just a waste and that was why the plastic, simply a throw away item for most of these customers.

@justinbouchard Жыл бұрын

@@deevnn then why even add a throw away item if the company knows this. it's a waste is my point