Too much cooking nothing on the empty pot .

Hi Piezu! thankyou for thoughts of wanting to support, always greatly appreciated! But yes correct int;l shipping out of aus is pretty horrendous (ginormous continent with relatively small commerce). I try to keep pre prep prices low so on multiple prepped chains we start to be competitive as they are expensive everywhere from any reputable provider, but otherwise you can support just by doing what you have done here - watching, engaging, sharing with friends - and same with any podcasts zfc feature on etc so that over time ZFC information will be seen / heard ahead of more worrisome information that is pumped out there!

let me know how you go!

Hi there many apologies for delay reply i have been a bit snowed and struggling to duck back to check YT comments! Yes older chain wear checkers typically had 0.75% & 1.0% graduation marks vs the more common 0.5% / 0.75% we have today. 5 to 8 spd chains are a 3/32 standard (internal width of chain is 3/32 of an inch). As such the cog teeth are much thicker, and could withstand a bit more wear, also 5 to 8spd chains have much less protection against wear vs quality say 10 / 11 / 12spd chains, and so tended to reach 0.5% to 0.75% wear pretty quickly, and overall lesser time at greater than 0.5% before being replaced if one was keeping an eye on chain wear, limiting to a degree wear damage to cassette. 9spd onwards however chains move to 11/128 standard, so notably thinner internal width, and so teeth are much thinner providing less metal needing to be worn through ,there is just much less leeway to run a chain past 0.5%, especially when chains are longer lasting and will take a longer time to get from 0.5 to 0.75%, doing overall much greater wear damage along the way. And correct re % calculation - it may seem like not much from a mm perspective, but moving from 9.5mm to 9.8mm is definitely notable wear, and can be the go / no go point for stronger riders. And definitely by the time it gets to 10.0mm, it is risky to try running a new chain on same cassette, very risky to try on rings.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for coming back to me. Chain wear is very interesting and thanks for helping us all get to the truth as apposed to marketing nonsense.

Hi tom i have heard (this information could be incorrect, havent had time to check kmc) that KMC have claimed compatibility with axs road, but honestly i just do not see how that would be possible. KMC's 12spd chains are the normal 11/128 standard, meaning that the internal width between inner plate links is 11/128 of an inch, and it also has normal size rollers. Axs road is quite a bit thinner (i need to measure, they havent stated a standard), and also have oversize rollers. Even if the extra width of the kmc didnt cause an issue, which would be surprising, the normal size rollers running on cogs / rings made for oversize rollers, it would be like running a new chain on really worn parts - the risk of jumping under load would be very high. All reputable information from any reputable source, and taking into account clear differences in the completely different standard that is axs road - point to that there is zero cross compatibility with axs road and any other non axs road chain / cassette / chain rings. Considering that axs road chains are very durable, but certainly not fast, there is a definite need for a fast chain compatible with axs road. The fact we havent seen an aftermarket option points to there likely being a bit of patent minefield preventing this from happening or their would have been an official axs road chain by now by kmc / ybn. Sram need to make a TT version of their axs road chains, i think many axs road racers would happily give up some wear longevity for some watts savings for a dedicated race chain. If you see kmc claiming somewhere that their 11/128 chains are compatible with axs road let me know, i will write to them and tell them they are a) lying and b) playing a dangerous game with their customers. KMC do claim some odd things from time to time (like with their DLC chains, they are a complete sham. In my opinion. But based on the fact there is no DLC coating on any wear surfaces, so my opinion is pretty darn safe, and it failed spectacularly in my durability testing).

he measured it from wrong side of teeth , be patient i will make video how to reshape worn teeth and you will never have to buy new cassette or ring gears

Hey There! Probably but there might be variances from one set of wheels to another. However at least with pulleys if your run them a bit too worn, normally you will only experience worse than normal shifting (unless really worn). You wont get the more risky issues of chain jumping on cogs which can snap off teeth / snap chain or jumping off ring which might cause crash etc. it would be best on new set off pulleys, get a start measure to check, and then you can track wear.

Hi Michael! Cassettes you are pretty much always ok with circa 9.5mm, just ensure on the cog you are measuring that you are measuring two "square" profile teeth. Ie many cogs with have intermittent round profile teeth to aid shifting performance - so avoid measuring to one of those. For chain rings, it is absolutely best unless it is shimano, to take a measure from new, especially if they are a pointed tooth profile (ie a number of sram road rings) vs a square profile. For the pointed tooth profile this can actually be pretty challenging, as the points themselves wont wear at all until ring is extremely worn, you need to be able to measure from a leading edge point on one tooth to a trailing edge point on next tooth, at a certain height from the tooth trough. This then requires a scribe mark on both to measure the exact same point each time, and track measure, and unfortunately, the same go / no go measure above cannot be applied, you would need to do a same % wear. Ie if your point measured 8.5mm, then probably 8.7 ish may be your go no go point. If you measured 10mm, then probably 10.4 (to be a similar percentage wear as the 9.5 to typical 9.8mm no go mark. I think measuring chain ring wear for anything other than shimano will not be on the cards except for the most nerdy 0.1% of cyclists, and even then it will take some time to build up skills & measures for that ring type. As such, the back up test advised of checking ones rings under load safely after installing new chain is going to be the way to go for many vs measuring.

Thanks justin! and great thinking - maybe - i hadnt thought to try that, but that may work well for some - ie if power not too high, a 10mm BB could be an easy way for go / no go measure - for higher power riders where really should consider at about 9.8mm - a 9.5could be a guide if can measure approx 0.3mm gap

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Hi Adam, Thanks for the reply. I have already ordered 9.5 and 10mm bearings. Maybe a feeler gauge with a 9.5 would be very accurate. Using them to measure new ones first to get a feel for it. I will post back on how it pans out 🙂

there are some exercise for eyes and you can train it to see better( i do it and i have medical check once a year and docs wonder how my sight improved as i get older,48y)

You say your chain is 10-speed dura-ace ultegra? 1., It should be dura-ace or ultegra. It can't be both. 2., Dura-ace and ultegra have been 12 speed for a while now and 11 speed for years before that. Why is your chain 10 speed? How many cogs on your casette?

Hey Sam! I havent been able to check grx - due to being too busy on testing and online for a long time now i had to close workshop side of zfc and so i just dont get the bikes through and i dont have grx on any of mine yet! It is likely it wont work for chain rings, tooth profile is likely to be different for better chain retention - so best is to get your own start measure so you can periodically track, and allowing a little adjustment for % ratio - at somewhere in the 0.3 to 0.4mm range that is likely to be getting to the point where it might be good to go a new set of rings for a new chain. Cassette i would be surprised if they changed that gap. It is possible but it would be surprise. I would try to really ensure that you have the tip to tip dead on, and check multiple spots on a cog / multiple cogs to see if measure varies - some teeth have a different profile to aid shifting so you really need to make sure your are checking between two square profile teeth. Re chain - park tool chain checkers, like A LOT of chain checkers on the market (the vast majority i have checked) - there is a pretty big variance from one tool to another. Some park tool checkers 0.5 is dead on. Sometimes chain is really only at 0.25. Sometimes chain is really at about 0.75. Their cc3.2 with dial is pretty much as accurate as a magic 8 ball. Alas, who knows, but there are benefits to changing chains early anyway re parts lifespan - you will never ever have wasted money buying your next chain as you can either use it now, use it in future, or use two on rotation. No idea re dynamic all round - but i think Dynamic have a good chance of being a solid option based on reputation - however silca ss drip having been tested is definitely a top top option for very low wear (and its very clean). I should be testing dynamic speed potion wax very soon as have been requested by team Jumbo Visma to do so, so am trying to find a spot.

Thank you very much for your reply!

I just assumed the Dynamic Allround lube might be average because the oil seems pretty thin and I've noticed quite a bit of spray of oil on the rim

Hi Gavin! It wont affect "elongation" wear rate of the chain, as from load going into outside of the roller, the roller will transfer this load to the main load surfaces inside the link (roller bore to inner plate link shoulders, inner plate link bores to pin) same as always. What can happen if teeth are notably sharper, is that where they are in contact with the OUTSIDE of the roller, this can wear a notable groove into the roller. This is pretty rare though. Most rollers are well hardened, and would resist this occurring unless teeth were very sharp, and to be that sharp the chain would have jumped under load, and so those parts would then be replaced. Some chains rollers can be quite soft if the mfg has not hardened them, and suffer wear on the outside from even good condition teeth, more so if things are a bit sharper from wear. Overall though, shortening chain lifespan buy running on worn bits is rarely if ever an issue. more of an issues is a) safety, b) just not great running if a poor mesh between chain and teeth. Sometimes things can be at that tipping point of go / no go, and things are running, but just not really that smooth. Depending on the cassette, it can occur where randomly 2000km in on new chain, things start jumping under power. Chain wear might be minimal, well under replacement mark, but but teeth have continued to wear past the point where running a good condition chain will stay in place under load. This is more common with lightweight allow cassettes, ie getting two chains through a dura ace or red 22 cassette can be much more tricky, with randomly at some point on second chain, it starts to jump under load - chain is fine, but measure tooth gap on cassette and it is 10.2mm+. The out of nowhere jumping under power mid chain use can be confusing, but the reason why can be confirmed by measuring how worn things are.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks that's great info. By the way than you for all the clear waxing advice. This encouraged me to try MSW. It has worked brilliantly through the UK winter. Saved me time and money.

Hey there - no the information cant really be found from sram, but i am pretty certain they are not the same grade of steel. Srams steel in general does seem to be of a higher grade / wear resistance than shimano, and so the xx1 11spd will still be a very hardy cassette, however their x01 / xx1 eagle really seems to have stepped things up another level just going off the extreme wear durability demonstrated by those cassettes, and sram rep has confirmed they are a high grade tool steel. If only they were not permanently mated to a soft as alloy cog meaning so much magnificent steel is thrown away when it has so much wear life left in it due to the wear of one soft cog. It is very sad to waste those 11 magnificent cogs. Ah if only the big 3 werent always so determined to offset something magnificent they have done with something really crap. Let us bring to the world a cassette with the highest grade steel seen on a cassette for unparalleled wear durability, but lets have everyone waste that by making the largest cog out of sweety wrappers....

Hey lars - no i think the cdale rings have a different tooth profile and that this measure will not work on those - it is the same with some sram rings that have a more pointed too profile vs squared off tooth profile. A pointed tooth profile makes this measuring very tricky - really you would need to make some scribe marks near tops of a two teeth, take a basically near new check measure - and then over time if that measure has increased by say around 0.3mm they are becoming worn such that a new chain MAY be at risk of not playing and to start to be aware / do some load testing re jumping before heading into a full stand up sprint / power climb. On customer bikes where it was bit go / no go - new chain - ride with front brake on at like 5km doing a few pedal strokes at max strength in each cog and both rings in a style that keeps me not at risk of going over the bars if it does - its easier than it sounds to check , just a bit of time and effort. And normally if on the edge of go / no go - a new chain will run rough as it is poor mesh, so thats a sign as well that its maybe time for a new ring. Look after chain and rings with a top lubricant though, i believe those rings are not cheap!

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the explanation! And no, the rings aren't cheap, thats the main reason i just bought 2 MSW wax blocks and a crock-pot. Cleaned my bike today and looking forward to waxing my chains for the very first time. This is all thanks to your vids and a friend of mine called Dirk, he says he knows you. He told me about you and im glad he did. Keep up the good work!🙌

Maybe... it is an expensive too i do not think many would ever buy, i believe it only checks cogs not rings, and - as per vid, go / no go definitely depends to an extent ones power. I do not know if this tool is conservative, or a bit generous with wear allowance. But i can say the go no go point for an 85kg, 420w FTP powerhouse rider with a 1400w sprint is much lower than it is for a 65kg 250w FTP 900w sprint rider, or someone who never does high power intervals and tootles around at an average of 150 to 200w. Such a tool would be up against it to cover the demographics accurately. Getting to know if for you 9.8mm is no go, or 10mm is no go - that helps a lot, and for many there can definitely be another chain yes or no in between those two measures.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 That makes sense. Thank You for the Answer!

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I have never seen one before it looks like a mini chain whip that looks very easy to replicate for virtually nothing.

that is pretty text book worn rings (sorry for delay reply, im doing a sweep for comments i may have missed!). Hope you have replaced rings now and riding all nice and safe as jumping off rings can be dicey

12.4?! thats a pretty massive gap. I cant imagine how that measure is possible without seeing a pic of it....

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I'll email you soon through your website so I can include photos. I've correctly zeroed my digital calipers. Thanks Adam

@@bfaIllini1 groovy, yes worst i have ever measured is 10.6mm, on a very very worn cassette from someone running a chain waaay past wear mark (2.1%). 12.4 there would be basically no teeth left. I think maybe measuring from incorrect tip to tip - needs to be the next tip across the trough.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Just emailed you 2 photos. Thanks

Mostly - it is mostly the same across 9 to 12spd which use an 11/128 standard chain - however note that sram axs road 12spd use a different standard, 5 to 8spd are 3/32 standard chains with larger rollers. Other brands cassettes (ie rotor, campy) may be slightly different so it can be good to check your cassette new and have a starting measure - but mostly, for most 9 to 12spd systems it should be 9.5mm tip to tip to start, with circa 9.8 being a point most should take note of how a new chain will go

ha. um. yes. Does it make that much difference in this case where i have clear access to use as above? to demonstrate tip to tip very clearly, i had no need to insert. Also, habit. Often when check measuring a customers bike, i would do a quick check with wheel on and it is easier to use the bottom "protruding things" for such checking. Within 30 secs whilst i have customer there i can advise if cassette is looking perfectly fine for a new chain, or looking 50/50, or really its a no go. Once you get used to something that works perfectly, one doesnt really think that demonstrating it in a way that works perfectly.....I will assume you are the president of the "Absolutely Precisely Correct Caliper Use Society" and this is a pet peeve of yours hahahahaha

Assuming you have never replaced anything since the bike was new, if your chainrings and cassette are worn out, your chain is worn out as well. Because the chain is the first thing to wear out, followed by the cassette or freewheel, and the chainrings the last.

It is obviously vastly better to simply track chain wear, and replace your most consumable part when your should, to then attain great lifespan for your more expensive (often much more expensive) components. If one has been caught out, and chain is now worn, and so wear damage is done to cassette and rings - then if one wants to keep riding a chain and drivetrain components that ride like a heap of crap, and with a higher risk of failure under load - that is really up to them...... But the former path is a) much more pleasurable and of course - safer and b) saves a lot a lot of money. Ie by replacing chain when you should, for most people - chain rings will last longer than they would ever own the bike - normally at least around 40,000km but 50, 60k is easily attained, and cassettes 20 to 30k across 2 to 3 chains. Vs pushing one chain to say 15 to 20k, with everything riding like shite for 10k+, then a massive bill to replace the lot - why would one choose that path....

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Right, thanks for the info. I guess the cost is not an issue for me because I have a cheap bike and (hopefully) the necessary tools so I can replace the chain, cassette and crankset for 45€ in total. But I would appreciate if it worked more smoothly so I'll try to take better care of it when I replace those parts.

Is your chain also worn? worn chain and worn ring - chain typically will not jump, the danger time is new chain on worn components as mesh / fit is poor. And yes the losses are higher in worn parts, but you would unlikely to ever be able to detect such loss levels (depending if chain knackered, a knackered chain vs a new chain & good lubricant, maybe you would)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for reply! The chain and cassette is fresh. This is third casette/chain with this chainring. I tensioned the chain and saw that the chain does not lay in front chainring for about one quarter sector, this might be the cause of which it is harder to cycle.

Sure - do that. And also provide information why it doesnt work, when as per previous feedback on comment, it does work. You had some logic fails in your first commment - pls consider those first. No idea what you are on about re religion - but it seems perhaps a chill pill is needing prescription.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 in some other comments watchers said that what did you intend to say ,it should be shorter, btw in one comment some said he has new rings but your way of measure gives him different numbers , religion? when spoke become empty here starts religion(bla bla). now i am in car exhaust , so now i am busy , as soon as possible i will make how to reshape

@@makantahi3731 Makatahi i really dont need to know re reshape. I dont understand what you mean by religion. We are talking about just measuring between two points and what is a no go measure etc. yes if some are not able to measure correctly - one needs a steady hand and eye- obviously the distance between the two points is not changing if measuring the same two points - so that would be operator error / more practice needed. Yes i often take too long to get a point across - what is your point if you are aware others have already commented on this? I am busy makatahi - i do my best to respond to comments but these are not a good use of time, i hope understand i likely will not respond further to this i dont understand what you are badgering me about.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 here is link how to reshape:kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d86CY5V_0rfcdmg.html

i agree

you can measure that way too, it is just a different number benchmark to be established. The above is not incorrect, it has been proven to work. How can you say that measure does not work? Do you not think the wear at the tip will have some relationship to the wear at the bottom? what we need is an easy measure, that works. the above numbers work. Can you provide same for your measure?

@@zerofrictioncycling992 how you would measure pitch of chain?, on same way you should measure pitch of gear teeth. unworn gear ring teeth can be fatter or thinner and it should not affect on measurement, so if you measure pitch of gear you should measure from same point on two next teeth. i reshape teeth for more than 20 years and on every reshape teeth become thinner, i always reshape bottom of teeth , not tip, and after that reshape chain does not skip any more. i do not measure teeth pitch , i can see by shape oh teeth are thay worn or not and do they need reshape or not

@@makantahi3731 i dont need to measure the pitch, the pitch of the chain is known as 1/2 inch. I dont need to re shape teeth, and thus make them thinner. I just needed a measure whereby i could advise customer if rings / cogs were worn to a point that acception a new chain was either definitely a no go, or potentially no go, or its fine. whatever you are doing and why - if that works for you, then cool. but that doesnt discount a simple measure for wear that i am doing.

I know - one day i will get better i promise. Not on the upcoming ones though! Aside from being naturally as above, things have been so, so busy on both testing and retail and chain prep - when i get a film day i havent had time to prep, and just basically have a crack at the video, and then move onto filming the next one. I have a retail manager in training, i do hope that by approx episode 20 (after upcoming rounds of vids that are still no prep) - i will actually take the day before filming to prep a talking point structure to the vids and improve my rambling. Thanks for bearing with me so far! I had never planned to have my silly self on you tube and am not a good public speaker at all, but it is now on my to do list to chip away at improving

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Agree with Mario, but have to say, in between that 'wordiness' there are nuggets of pure gold, really valuable information from Adam that fill in the gaps in my knowledge, and explains things I didn't know. Problem is with social media it's a fast world. If you were to meet a mechanic like Adam in a workshop and he took you though this subject in 19 minutes and 17 seconds it would be total bargain. Just saying :-)

Adam you be you. People say my videos are wordy. I get comments where people say the video could have been half the time. But then they would have missed something that I randomly said maybe not even related to the topic of the video. Everyone wants fast answers to their problem I get that. I tell people that my videos are like you coming in to my shop and I’m explaining something to you as to why you need to replace, service or maintain said item at home. Don’t worry about being wordy or long there is always something one of a thousand viewers will hear that help them that the other 999 didn’t hear or need. Cheers

He does love an overly verbose preamble but be thankful for the information Adam shares with us on here. Also I'm not sure you realise who "this guy" is. He is basically the god of frictionless cycling and THE authority on it. He is referenced in numerous online literature and the fact he does what he can and provides that information for free is something we should be appreciative of. The info in this video is priceless. Nowhere else have I seen this topic explained in such simple straightforward terms. I actually went and bought some vernier calipers just so I could check my drivetrain after watching this video. Also, hot tip: You can use the playback speed option or scrubber to get to the content you need faster.

my video with teeth reshape will be shorter