Using the Knight's power as intended feels like a Pinhead game where you miss every chain.

I completely agree. Part of why I love Wesker is because he removes a lot of the boring hold w counterplay. It's a shame he was immediately followed by the epitome of a hold w killer

The knights power seems to be all about tactically making your knights patrol and being a master tactician, but behavior was so focused on balance in a game with nurse that they basically made his power as lame as such a cool concept could possibly be

Some changes I'd like to see would be: - adding a minimum path length requirement - removing survivors ability to see the green orb - put each guard on a separate cooldown and immediately swap to the next one as soon as you place one - allow you to manually cancel your guards - allow you to start the guard path manually instead of automatically but add a distance cap from yourself - beef up the patrol and hunt time of guards as well as make the banner take longer to be grabbed - reduce the time it takes for a guard to begin hunting after spotting someone - if all this seems too strong, could make him 110% and increase the stats of the guards to make him use them for lethality The devs probably won't alter him this much, but I love the idea of a commander playstyle so throwing out some ideas doesn't hurt.

100% Agreed, it's a damn shame as i really like him aesthetically and all that.. The power is just very lackluster and makes everyone hold W.

While he looks like he’ll be fun to play for a bit, it will wear off quick. Not to mention survivors are not gonna like The Knight at ALL.

Like you said the survivors ability to see the power needs to be removed all together( orb, trail, detection radius) and I think the core things they need to do is add a way to cancel the guard to get them back quicker and just in general make the guards far more dangerous while they chase a surv.

I can already see the Devs saying: "Removed the ability to instantly spawn a Guard. Patrol routes now have to be at least 10 meters long and the Summon cannot be cancelled."

What if instead of making the guard's patrol time a flat number, what if you make it based how many times the guard has gone through the current patrol path, like every time they reach one end of the patrol path, they spend 1 token and once they used x amount of tokens then they disappear, so the shorter the path the shorter the patrol time.

I think that a good solution is to make it so the activation time of your soldiers is lower the further you travel, and the other way around. If you insta use your power to drop a soldier make it take 10 secs to start chasing but if you travel something like 32 meters it starts chasing instanly. I also think that soldiers that are in a route (not chasing any surv) should never despawn unless you use another soldier to reward the killer for pusing the survs towards their soldiers Edit: maybe instead of reducing the cooldown the longer distance you travell, base it on how far away the soldier is deployed from you. This will prevent holding w because the surv will get hit for free (since he ran away, the soldier would insta attack because it is deployed far away) and this way it cannot be abused to just wait to cover the distance that removes cooldown. This will reward knights that predict to which tile the survivor will run, since they can use their power, force the survivor to stay, place the soldier in the next loop and wait.

The way I see it the Knight's gameplay should be to strategically place the ghost for an ambush then push the survivor towards it. Currently survivors just get too many informations from the power. It should take more time to set up but a lot more discreet so the Killer need to plane in advance and the survivors need to read the Killer's intentions

Knight kills most of the interactions in the game. So it just becomes a W simulator. Yet he's still not strong to compete with top players. So yeah idk. Solid 4 out of 10.

I think you should be able to create the patrols like you would control a Fade prowler from Valorant. Basically you wouldn’t change perspective and you could still move around, but you wouldn’t be able to attack.

Remove the green orb, remove the spirit husk style power use and instead go pin head... by that I mean give him a cursor that you can move around with and to place 2 way points with. The first sets when the guard will spawn and the second is the end point. The guard will path to the end point as best he can and act as is currently. Then give add-ons that reduce guard activation time rather than giving them to you twice.

I think they also need to better incentive him using his power outside of chase. There’s no reason to have your guard patrol generators and patrol anywhere when they only patrol for 12 seconds, and the survivors can see the detection range clearly. They could help this by increasing the patrol time but making it so after 10-12 seconds you can recall them incase you need your power back. Also make it so either the survivor cannot see the detection range or make it harder to see.

Feeling the Pinhead issue here, where even if I use my power as intended (landing a chain or getting the guard to lock on, which are both quite difficult to do AND incredibly punishing if I miss), I was left standing still for so long that I’ve lost most of the distance I was trying to cover with my power and now we’re back to where we started.

I think that's exactly why I'm super unimpressed by this killer. The entire idea of having to stop to create a guard just doesn't work well. Unless they manage to make it so you can create guards while moving, it just doesn't work, other than to force ppl off of gens for ~10 seconds.

Lol "The correct play is to just fuck off and leave" describes so many instances for when killers decide to start using their power or interact with a pallet, window, wall, w.e.

I think there have been a ton of suggested fixed, many of which sound good. One thing I'd like to see in addition to longer patrol time is the ability to go into that trail leaving mode but choose when your trail starts being left. So like you're floating around and then you press a button to program the patrol route. That way you can create more thoughtful patrol patterns for you guard rather than just choosing how they eventually approach your position.

This is like the cenobites chain . Very hard to use effectivelly and most times it's a waste because you're standing in place while the survivor can just hold W . At least cenobyte has the chain hunt , the knight doesn't .

I was trying to play him by cutting people off, sadly this doesn't seem to work at all most of the time since the guard spawns at the end and not the beginning, i wish there was an addon that changes the guard spawn location to the start of the route instead of the end.

Here's a fix. Increase the speed which you can draw the path by 35%. And Have the guard's chase speed scale with how long you draw. If you just drop them, they move 10% slower when chasing. If you make the full path, they move 10% faster when chasing.

- You have to consume at least 25% of your power to place a guard - You can have one of each guard patrolling at any time (max of 3), placing a second of the same type replaces the first. - Guards now patrol forever until they see a survivor (in which case the regular hunt rules apply). - Guards now move at 110% speed while in a hunt, the assassin moves at 115% while in a hunt. - Guards can still phase through windows but can no longer phase through dropped pallets. - Guards can now be pallet stunned to remove them. - Guards now instantly start chasing and drop their flag when spotting a survivor instead of spending 4 seconds floating to where the survivor was spotted and then start chasing after. - Picking up the flag no longer gives haste and endurance. The Knight NEEDS to be a trap-style killer, or he'll just be in artist-unfun-land forever.

I also think the guards need to 1. not despawn if you m1 somebody (limiting for no reason really) and 2. stay manifested and patrolling their paths MUCH longer. Like a full minute. Make his add-ons have some higher rarity ones that increase the amount of patrols you can have out for various drawbacks or other upsides. There needs to be a way to leave patrols up. Like a more battle oriented trapper.

How bad/good do you think it'd be if the knight could preset the patrols beforehand, and set them off one by one depending on the current spirit in his cycle? I realize we havent really had a 'trap' killer in a while, and making it so that he can plan ahead to make big brain plays against survivors might be pretty neat.

I couldn’t pay attention throughout the whole explanation because Scott is looking like a real snack 😋

The was my exact worry when watching his reveal. It’s literally just the same kind of gameplay at artist and dredge where you place down you power and then the survivor just has to leave the loop. The power is cool but it’s entirely anti loop based so it just hold w the game. It’s boring as hell which is a shame for such a cool killer

I think you can decentivize being able to poop your guard out, by making each guard summon differently - and giving the killer the ability to switch guards. Making him feel more like Clown. So when summoning:.. *..the Carnifex,* the camera operates like Pinhead's hook when you're steering it - so any pallet/wall your camera crashes into, instantly breaks it. The guard's pathing (not in hunt) will just go towards the next nearest pallet/wall until he despawns. And the green orb is visible. *..the Assassin,* the camera and controls can freely move around, and the green orb is invisible as well as the guard's detection radius. *..the Jailer,* the guard can only be deployed on the spot, but will pace back and fourth the last 2 seconds of whatever pathing you the knight made before summoning. Hooked survivors have a deactivation radius around the hook which will despawn the guards *except for the Jailer* - who won't injure the survivor(s) within the deactivation radius, but will reveal them to the killer (notification / killer's instinct / aura)

One thing I'd add is that the Knight should not remain stationary when setting a patrol path. He should move with the power, maybe slower than it is in the PTB, and then have him appear at the end of the patrol path with an animation of pulling his sword out of the ground. This would give him some mobility and allow him to see where survivors went if they decided to hold W. Additionally, the guards should allow you to cycle through them without using them and they need to benifit from perks. Maybe the Carnifex can apply gen kick perks, Jailer can block windows with bamboozle and assassin would insta-down if the survivor is exposed. If the game detects the guard used a perk, they can be put on longer cooldown for balance reasons. They also need to be made more lethal in chase.

While I'm aware set up killers usually lead to bad designs, I think the knight could be a really interesting "summoner" style setup killer. I think they should allow two patrols to be active at a time, and increase the time a lot. Also remove the ability for Survivors to see the detection radius and the patrol path. Honestly, the guards aren't super annoying to deal with compared to Hag, and the Power already has anti camping built into it.

It’s as if The Knight has shipped to the ptb without parts, to be on the safe side, to avoid some sort of criticism. There is quite a few little things that make me think that there was more to the knight but was cut, such as being hunted as survivor, or the standards, which seem like overkill when the knight’s power is that he sends out one dude and that’s about it.

But Scott, how will this affect your legacy?

played my first few matches vs. and as the knight and both times I was so bored. As survivor it felt like I was fighting an m1 killer who would use their power mid-chase and all it did was allow me to gain massive distance on him. I was outplayed a time or two but it felt more to buggy/weird design that caught me off guard. As the killer it felt like I could never gain pressure on the survivors both in and out of chase. Even if I could be better after learning him more his gameplay just feels so stale and boring. Not to mention the new map hurts my eyes and feels so bland with its only notable design being "orange." Rant over, but yeah dumb killer imo

I think the Call to Arms add-on being partially or fully made basekit would be an amazing buff to help incentivize creating long patrols by making it less of a time sink.

I feel like changing the power in a way that lets you place your minions across large distances in a really short amount of time would make it a bit more interesting. Maybe guard routes could be marked in a sort of top-down overview of the map, turning the focus away from using the power mid-chase and instead just letting you pressure people anywhere on the map. Obviously this leaves a bunch of other problems unsolved (like the AI being inherently janky and pretty bad) and even creates totally new ones (it would make the knight an M1 only killer during chase), but I feel like that sort of map presence playstyle was what bhvr wanted to make in the first place. Would this make him more fun to play/play against? Honestly, no idea, but it seems like it has more potential for strategy than the way the power currently works.

I think it would be interesting if guards were faster but instead of just phasing through stuff would have to vault windows behind you or be removed from pallet stuns. I think it would just be better to have guards be more menacing when you dont have any resources and having a guard forces you to drop a pallet would be interesting I think. I think it would also be interesting if the orb disappeared when far away from survivors but survivors could see it up close and when you are close to survivors in orb form you could see them. Like PinHeads chain.

Knight be like "Hold up, wait a minute, do you mind staying right there while I down you please?"

BHVR just doesn’t really understand that any anti-loop will become a extremely optimized day 1, and survivor’s will immediately realize it and hold W.

This killer is basically Artist but weaker as he can't snipe across the map. I mean that in like he can counter anything and the survivor just has to W key. The lack of map pressure is going to make him quite a lot weaker however. This is a problem

I think the issue is that placing the damn thing is waaaay to slow. If your camera mooved faster and maybe could pass trought walls (the knights start coming back on the shortest path if it gone trought wall), I think you could pop it more mid chases.

I love the graph work

I have a few ideas, idk how they mix or interact but the knight seems so cool that I want to try Idea 1, Timer: The longer you hold you're power, the quicker the Guard will activate and complete their patrol/orders/chase. If you use your power completely they will come out swinging. If plopped immediately it takes them a moment, say 5 or so seconds. The prior somewhat solves the issue of them just leaving the tile, at least they'll be occupied and you can focus elsewhere. The latter allows for bets/gambles, as well as shuts down the loops slower as deterrent to always using it. Using the scenario, the knight has a choice, if placed at the pallet/other door the survivor may try to leave but not much distance is lost, or risked being sandwiched. If done out of sight, a new mindgame appears: leave the loop and risk the killer being right behind you or stay and run into a guard later. Timings will need to be tweaked of course but the idea is what's presented Idea 2, Add-ons: currently there are 6 add-ons that could be infinitely interesting, in my eyes. The add-ons that introduce a power to each guard and their respective doubling when cycling. The power of the add-on given to all 3 to as base kit. In turn however, the twice appearance will diminish this effect as compensation. This promotes a constant question of what can you make use of the guard you have or cycle to better approach the situation later. Information from the Carnifex, pressure from the Assassin (screams stop current actions), or haste from jailer (although personally I feel its effects could be either longer, greater, or some combination of the two). The add-on rework is needed of course but I propose some form of inversion of the power: Carnifex's info works with windows instead, Assassin causes screams within the terror radius/36m, and Jailer instead hinders nearby suvivors by 10% for 6s. For the Axe Head, Blade, and Manacles add-ons specifically, they cause a strong reduction of that Guard's ability: Carnifex's detection radius is down, Assassin's effect are farther away (or closer in if the other add-on is used), and the Jailer's (de)buff is weaker/shorter. Some numbers again should be tweaked but I think this would be an interesting direction. Idea* 3: Taking a page from Spirit's book, have the Knight instead stand still while the power is active. Additionally the green line never appears until after it's done (idk if it does this already but I wanted to be sure in case). This idea is admittedly less intriguing to me as the other two ideas, but this would cause a nice set of mindgames I think. Call the Knight's bluff and waste time for the killer or leave the tile to be safe but you still have fair distance from him. If there is no good connecting tile this also presents the idea of how long does the Knight hold his power/what way would be best to cutoff the survivor. Again using the example provided, should the Guard be sent left and the Knight go right or center the survivor still have the window and the pallet respectively, if the guard is sent windowside then another long wall mindgame appears: the guard chase the survivor normally and force pallet or doubles back to risk being seen and put in the Hunt? There could be other ways that just aren't presenting themselves to me but this is just off the top of my head. Like I said, these are just ideas and some shuffling of numbers will probably need to be made to be sure but I want this Killer to be so cool, it's literally a Knight how could he not be!! (And also what Legion should've been like but that's a topic for a different discussion).

A somewhat simple rework of this could be a sort of reverse Nurse Biink; 1.) You activate your power by holding the button 2.) An indicator appears (think Nurse's Plaid Flannel add-on), a set distance away from you, obviously with some map logic to determine if it's in a wall or not 3.) Releasing the button spawns the guard as it does now, but instead of manually drawing the path the guard simply has its pathfinding drawn from the point you specified to where you are when you released the button. 4.) To prevent the Knight player from simply putting his guard right on the same spot where he's at, there's a set distance range where the guard HAS to spawn beyond. Also, the utility bit that allows you to send your guard to kick stuff can simply be done with the secondary use button. This would make using the power both more efficient for the Knight, as well as it still having to be used somewhat skillfully due to the fact that your guard isn't immediately available since he has to make his way towards you first. There's also some counterplay here because the guard could still potentially find another survivor before getting to you, which could be both good or bad depending on the situation (and allows for another survivor to help relieve the pressure if you're being chased) Further, this wouldn't even be that hard to code, legit the only thing they'd need to really do would be giving the Knight's AI some way to plot a course between where you're spawning them and where you are.

i think a simpler solution could just be you hold your power, look at where you want your guard to patrol via a marker (much alike the plaid flannel marker for nurse), and the guard will walk from you to where your marker is set and patrol around a bit. this keeps the knight himself mobile and able to use his power in chase, and keeps the core functionality of what his power is supposed to be, setting guards to do tasks. if this makes kicking gens from afar harder, have the current version be a second option so you have more control over your guard. (or have it be like freddy where when within range a little arrow will appear) mark for quick placements, or swap to floaty cam trail blazing.

Great vid Scott, i think they completely focused on making the killer power Al and forgot if the survivors are gonna have fun against it in a variety type of way Btw something that would have been insane is if the knight had a main event type power where for 15 secs all the ghosts spawn and start immediately chasing survivors making them leave gens - this would give the killer map control and would be crazy to witness from a cinematic perspective. It would have a long cool down but would give him some slowdown.

Jokes on you, Scott. I leave the loop on every killer! 🤩

I LITERALLY LOVE YOUR HONESTY. 100% AGREE

perhaps a long shot, but i would add a little radius around which the survivor is momentarily slowed down to a crawl while the power is being used kind of like pinhead. it would do nothing at point blank range to make it harder for the killer to immediately plop down the guard at short loops but some 6 meters away (or something like that) it would kind of grab the survivor (currently in a chase) and slow them down to a snails pace like pinheads chains while the killer can take all the time they need to plop down a path, when the killer confirms a path, release the survivor. that way the survivor cant instantly escape the situation without even engaging with the guard mechanic if the patrol route is a long one.

No way, it's like the chase oriented power has more options in a chase. I do agree with removing the ability to see where the guards are being placed tho.

I think a fun interesting thing they could do is make it so the further the patrol path, the faster the guard starts chase with the survivor. So if it just plops down, it takes forever to drop the banner like we currently have, but if they walk a long patrol path, they drop the banner immediately on sight and start chasing right then and there without having to fly slowly to where they saw the survivor.

I thought it would be cool if it was kinda like PH’s ability where you can walk and a path can spawn behind you, then you can summon a guard from where you started the path.

I find the killer to be really fun to play against especially on maps with lots of interconnected tiles; I think the basic optimal play is to just tap the power at a loop to shut it down and force the survivor to leave the loop, but if the killer recognises the interconnected tiles they can shut down the whole extended loop by setting up the patrol across both tiles. The problem is that survivors can easily tell that the killer will attempt to do this because of the orb. Removing the orb alone will give the killer more options to quickly end chases rather than just zoning the survivor out until they hit a z wall at the edge of the map

Wouldn't removing the green orb just be the spirit problem we had before? If the only option we had was to guess, then the "counterplay" is just hoping you guess correctly, unless I'm missing something then idk.

a suggestion to make the whole instant drop style less effective is to place a limit on how many patrol loops a guard will take so if you're making super small patrol loops to camp something the guard will go through the loop like 3 or so times really quickly then disappear after while longer patrol loops should never reach 3 loops in the patrol timer they have

I agree with your statement, though this may be bias as an artist main, but her power is not soley limited to that "anti-loop" play. If you're good enough with her you can be more strategic with you r placements and you can even rely on good shots and predictions around and through corners to play the tile differently. Even if they hold W you can still shoot them if you're good enough. The knight has NONE of that neuance

I agree with your take on this. How about giving him the ability to be able to switch places with his guard? You could place them strategically still and you wouldn't necessarily lose that much distance.

i completely agree and i noticed this problem the moment i saw gameplay of him, i've commented a few ideas on one of your previous videos on how to change him for the better, mostly buffs (in a more QoL way) that will make him a lot stronger by mitigating his weaknesses but one huge nerf that make sense which still leaves him in a strong spot, and i don't wanna fully go through changes but i will summarise to show how the changes will fix these problems while still making him a strong killer, since if i talk about buffs first he'll look completely overpowered let me get the nerf out of the way first becomes a 110% killer instead of 115%, he's in a suit of armor and basically has a more advanced spirit ability so it makes sense, plus for the buffs to his ability that will buff his anti loop, the nerf to move speed will balance the buffs Buffs The knight can choose which Guard to use BUT cannot use the same guard twice, for example if you're running tinkerer and you're in a chase you can use assassin to pressure the assassin to pressure enemies off the gen, get into a chase with a survivor then use the carnifex mid chase to kick the gen. Knight should be able to cancel a guard route early, since the best solution for a survivor to avoid taking a hit with the knight's ability is just to leave a loop early, i feel like the knight should also be able to cancel his ability early. Everything the knight's ability does should be shorter such as entering and exiting the patrol ability (i like the word pseudo phase better) and guards manifesting into enemies to start patrols should be shorter, the best way to explain why is to use dredge and artist which both deal with loops very similar to the knight but the key difference is that both artist and dredge can use their abilities while still moving so if a survivor exits a loop which is the exact same counter, in artists case she can still hit someone with a crow e.g. if an artist places a crow a a certain part of a loop so it cuts off a survivor and can hit a gen, even if it misses the survivor on loop, if there's someone else at the gen it can add slowdown. in the dredge's scenario he can teleport into a locker to cut a survivor entering another loop or just cancel the ability entirely. Last Change, each guard should do more, right now players aren't really utilising the abilities each guard has fully, along with the ability to choose which guard to use, i think this would make his ability consistent in strength and can provide a larger range of skill, for example if you were in a 3 gen with 0 kills and you're chasing someone on death hook away from the 3 gen (which is highly unlikely this is just one example that i can think off at the top of my head) would it be better to use the assassin to get a quick down of the survivor you're chasing, use the carnifex to hit a gen or use the jailer to patrol the 3 gen. i'm not asking for strong changes but something that can push them more into their roles e.g. Carnifex causes 5% of a gen to instantly regress alongside it's previous 2.5% and if the carnifex walks by a gen with high progress (above 50%) he will automatically kick the gen and then end the patrol The assassin manifests instantly and can only be seen at shorter distances (similar to freddy) When the jailor attacks a survivor they will be branded applying the broken debuff for 45 seconds

What if they made it so when you make a path it stays there, then you can activate it at anytime. kinda like instead of the path spawning the guard right away you can press active ability button or something to then make the guard spawn. this way you could pre-set up one loop you know survivors are gonna go to and while they are running to that place you can activate it so by the time they make it the guard comes out of their ghost form.

In your situation, would the guard even notice the survivor when they're placed right ontop of them? I haven't played the PTB a lot because of the 40 minute queue times but I swear in the few games i've played the guard doesn't notice the survivor.

maybe if the knights power can travel like the nurse and it patrols from where it gets summoned to where you last were.

Imo the Knight's Guards should draw inspiration from enemies in stealth games. Survivors have been wanting some more interesting stealth mechanics for ages, and this is one way of going about it. Plus, I think I can get the Guards to actually function as additional patrolling enemies: - The detection ring is only visible to Survivors who have LoS on the Guard or - Guards don't have a detection ring, but also don't detect instantly anymore. Instead we make them detect gradually based on how far away the Survivor is. If they spot you, but don't fully detect you, they should deviate from their patrol path to your last known location and wander for a moment in whatever direction they saw you go in. For this to work the detection time needs to be low enough that Survivors can't evade detection using their reactions alone. Survivors should only be able to "safely" enter LoS if they're moving with a plan. While a Guard is investigating, their patrol timer will also need to be paused, otherwise they'll become worthless. It should resume the moment they give up the search. I would also: - Allow Guards to "hear" the Survivors if they're close enough while doing certain interactions. Whenever a Survivor is heard, the Guard doesn't chase the Survivor, but instead will investigate the area like I described above. - I would also apply the logic that Nemesis' zombies use to make the Guards investigate loud noise notifications. - It's also very important to telegraph that they've going to investigate when they hear someone. A simple grunt of surprise/confusion would be enough. - Drastically increase the patrol timer or remove it entirely, and allow the Knight to have multiple Guards patrolling at a time. They still vanish after a Hunt or when you give them a new Order, and cycle as they do currently. The maximum length of the patrol is unchanged from the PTB. - The cooldown between setting patrols may need to be drastically increased from the current value. - Don't show the patrol trail to Survivors, and don't give them any ques that one is getting set up. The summoning animation should be plenty warning enough - and if it's not - we can always extend it so that it's more reasonable. - I would also give the Knight's patrol PoV the muted audio that Pinhead has while looking out of his portal. The fact that he can listen out for and drop a Guard on someone's head kinda goes against the spirit of his power imo. - I would maybe give the Knight unlimited duration while drawing patrol routes, but keep the max patrol length the same. E.g. you travel across Mother's Dwelling in drawing mode and the path would be last 32m you travelled. My only worry is that he can hold gens from waaay too far away. - Remove the Haste/Endurance effects from picking up the banner. The reward of taking the Guard out of the equation is enough of a reward imo. I don't think this would prevent anyone from playing Knight like they do currently, but it would make the patrol aspect of their power much more prevalent and viable. There'd be a risk/reward to using your power in-chase, because now you'd have to sacrifice the map pressure you've established elsewhere. I'm sure good Knight mains will become masters at setting patrols and knowing when they can afford to/benefit from sacrificing one for a shorter chase. The main goal of these changes would be to effectively let you pressure multiple areas of the map at once and fix the issue you describe by giving Knight players the ability to prepare and corral Survivors into other patrol routes. If you have some good routes set up in advance, you can take away the "run left" option by having a Guard there already.

What's wrong with the Artist at shack? I shoot birds through and it can give me information, whether it's killer instinct, swarm or damage. Then I can know what next action to take whether it's chase or birds. If they reach shack with swarm, I can spam birds, or listen and use an accurate bird, or use the confusion to jump them, or use the time they are wasting to shoot birds at gens to see who is where. Her power is always birds, but the benefit is it goes wherever I feel like and it has a chance to damage if aimed right or guessed right.

interesting and a true statement. one question tho, you mentioned the hag as is the same gameplay, why ?

Just change the guard placement so you never leave your first person. Knight just points at a start point, and then an end point (Possibly even through objects/walls - Can "blind place", rewards good map awareness). After a short delay, guard spawns and patrols. Can still move while in "pointing mode", just can't attack.

well originally i assumed there would be predetermined spots on the map the knight would walk up to to place a patrol on which would also have its own predetermined route and he would be able to do this up to three times, survivors would be able to walk into the guard to start a hunt and win the hunt by destroying the flag or run the risk of getting the knight to chase u as well as a guard, once u grabbed the banner tho the knight would have to place the guard back onto that patrol area again if he wanted there to be a guard there. the knight would also obviously be able to place a patrol in a different location by using his first guard he placed if hes all out of guards which would in turn remove the previous patrol and place it somewhere else just so that survivors wouldnt be able to ignore the power and get away with it. so it would be a true 4v4 against a killer thats basically m1 as long as his guards are just patrolling, i think this gimmick would be hard to incorporate tho because of the fact that maps are randomly generated so... thats my idea at least.

Donut would be proud of the presentation.

Wesker is fun, but some maps that are cramped with curved stuff and few straight lines are a pain to play around since by the first charge the survivors can easily get to the other side and break line of sight, with you being unable to cross over quickly enough to have a chance to hit them.

I would say either remove the control aspect entirely and just point&click to drop guards at certain points (&break stuff), or go more into the patrol aspect by making the main killer actually run after survivors while you're in the power. Basically, while you press M2, if you're in a chase, the AI will continue to chase for you. Then once ur power ends you go back to the killer and can continue the chase. That's the only way I could think off to make that patrol power actually somewhat useable.

I only played on the survivor side of the PTB, but I agree. I got to the point that as soon as I saw the knight start his power I would just fuck off as far as possible, which isn’t super fun. I think it’s probably crazy hard to design a killer that has anti-loop abilities while still maintaining looping as a core aspect of gameplay, but yeah, your point was well made about Wesker. Wesker is much more fun to play against and try to juke out / guess where he is going.

I think I have a neat idea - removing the ability to see the trail, and you can't see the orb past 4 meters - then making it so you have a period- maybe 12 meters- where you don't make the trail they follow. However, you can turn the trail on at any time, then the orb is invisible after 4 meters. You then draw the path silently, and the guard is summoned to follow the set path, no circumference is visible to survivors. During power usage the knight should have the inability to gain undetectable - as his guards will be doing that for him.

I kinda feel like he should be like pinhead where he points his sword or hand out and it shows only the killer a green orb and whereever you put it the guard up on your arm will appear like it does now. It let's you keep moving but you can't get a free double hit immediately if the survivor thinks and they could have his cool down longer than pinheads(pinhead shouldn't have one anyway.)

tbh I think instead of a sit in one spot and control your summons's patrol pattern they remake the ability and make it a commander type thing like you look at a gen use your ability and boom one of you summons is kicking that gen or pallet ik its not gonna happen but it would be pretty dang cool

I do think The Knight it's self needs a few changes like removing the green orb and the detection ring for survivors and by removing the green orb and make it audio cue but non directional cuz the guard is gonna have a delay before he can go after the survivor

I think it would be great if they made a separate button to place a guard immediately at your position or order it to break a pallet/damage a generator without putting your sword to the ground.

if they wanted it to be a power where you create patrol routes, it should have let you create ground-targeted waypoints at a distance rather than a pinhead chain mechanic where you basically have to chase them once before actually spawning the guard to do anything

This would be my suggestion, the summoned guards have unique abilities once you reach a use threshold like 3 secs or something. Firstly no path aura trail it is stupid and makes no sense, second each of the guards have a unique ability not just breaking things quicker, deep wound or lasting longer. With that in mind I have two versions, first one is the strong version they keep the whole endurance speed boost if you break the banner thing but make it actually a priority for the survivors to break the banner. Guards place their banner down where they initially spawn and do not disappear for a full 30 secs and when they spot someone they do not disappear until either the survivor is injured/down or banner is destroyed. You can disable the original guard at any time and if enough time elapses you can summon another one that is different from the original while the other one still roams. The Carnifex will do the other stuff such as breaking stuff quicker however when it chases someone it is much slower but it can go straight through walls, obstacles anything . If it hits the target he disappears and place a banner down where they originally spawned its location glows white to the hit survivor (so if it spawned ages away sucks for you) the person hit is unable to be healed by anyone till the original banner is destroyed. Assassin, is invisible up to a certain distance and if it spots you will eventually catch up as it will bloodlust including having bamboozle, so either you drop a pallet on the assassin or you find a way to the banner, while the assassin is chasing someone the banner will glow white to all survivors so that hopefully someone can save you. The jailer creates a aura around them that locks down all nearby generators, they take 20% (probably needs tuning but idk) longer to repair and start to very slowly regress until the jailer is removed. If the jailer spots someone the aura effect magnifies in size and effect, making all gens unable to be worked on at all while making the regression much worse. When this happens it’s banner glows white. The jailer is around medium speed will eventually catch up but takes awhile mostly you want to not be spotted or remove him due to aura. If the jailer catches the player and downs them it will place the survivor in a cage where it will take the fellow survivors longer to get them up if they wanted before you get back and teleport back to its banner where it will continue to patrol its original location for a renewed duration. This makes using your power farther away stronger as placing the banner farther away from yourself more rewarding as it makes the banner harder to find and it’s path longer. The more guards you have out the slightly slower you are and you can pick between the guards (idk about this one but I like the idea losing some chase power for map pressure). The second less interesting version is just add the effects I mentioned before but lessen the duration for how long they can stay out also remove the banner and aura of the path. I personally like the first one more as it fits the general of the dead aesthetic more.

I agree that the orb should be invisible and perhaps a bit faster! I also think the longer you either use your power or how far you travel in your power should determine how fast the guard reacts to seeing a survivor (i.e the further you go, the faster they start chasing). Obviously the survivors should have enough time to react to them popping up, but it should be fast enough to keep them on their toes and have them make quick decisions. It would reward and allow for more calculated plays.

Haven't tried him yet but I mostly play killer. Told friends impression was he's really unique but unique doesn't necessarily mean fun.

They just need to increase the patrol time and/or radius. He'll be a basic m2 in chase but it'll add gen pressure and strategy to placement

Feel after Wesker probably gonna be awhile before we get more fun & useful killers.

Hm, what if they just removed the guard thing altogether but I dunno, made him charge forward with his sword, 2 different charges and if he hits a survivor he'll skewer them on wall if nearby and if not he'll just impale and throw them a little bit. Maybe could use the charge to vault or damage pallets, dunno. Maybe damage with addon only woudl be bit strong I guess otherwise.

What if the Knight's ability worked backwards and had a minimum length? For example, when you start holding M2, that starts the trail (and the knight doesn't give any tells) and when you let go, that's where it ends (and then he puts the sword into the ground) and you have to hold it for at least 5 seconds or something. That way, it's more of an "Echo" than some kind of weird Pinhead ripoff. If you start the trail within a certain radius of a generator or pallet, then they will try to kick those first, and if there are none then they will switch to patrol and not kick anything.

Changes I'd recommend is being able to set a path while being stationary, instead of controlling the path first person. Sort of like how the Artist does it. He should also be able to set a path significantly faster than what it currently is. While this doesn't fix the problem Scott addressed at least it sort of fixes the hold W counter play.

I don’t know if anyone will see this but They should make the power like nurse. Just hold the button down and u will see a dot that goes further and further. It can go through walls and all that. Once you let go, it will place a trail that leads to that dot. Hopefully you know what I mean. And then everything else works as normally

Guards should react faster when u hold power longer, and remove green orb

Aside from getting rid of the green line, The Knight shouldn't stop moving when making a patrol, instead channeling it like Pinhead with it creating a line back to him through walkable terrain (if you put it through a wall, the Guard's path takes him all the way around the tile). That way, he's rewarded for making long patrol paths, since he loses no distance if the survivor holds W. This gives survivors a reason to try to stay and play around the tile, trying to juke Guard and Knight to get the flag. Another change would be to make it so if the survivor runs a certain distance from the flag, the Knight can pick it up, completely resetting the Hunt timer, giving himself enough time to catch up to a survivor who tries to run.

Artist is completely different. First, you're assuming the survivor is zoned in a corner, and even then, artist can place on the pallet, aiming at the pallet to hit after vault, or choose to cut the survivor from leaving the loop by placing the bird to one side. Survivor can break away if the artist fucks up, if not, they can cross past the bird when the artist isn't expecting and even wrap around to run into it and swarm, or they can fake crossing and make the artist shoot it, OR they can step back and cross from a distance so they only get swarmed and then continue to play the pallet (only works depending on the loop)

Either let him see scratches *or* make his guard have a full circle as soon as he spawns just not both at once

I totally agree that his patrolling should be buffed in some way to incentivize players to use his power for that reason. I do wonder though if his patrolling power might be useful in keeping slugs on the ground when infinite unbreakable comes out.

The anwer is simple, after entering guard mode the knight can't place a guard within 1 meter of his current location, this would stop insta-drops, to compensate once a knight does drop someone, there is no startup period, once the guard is placed they patrol IMMEDITELY and if they see someone in their detection range, they IMMEDITELY start chasing after survivors, potentially increasing the guards movement speed by 1% during patrol for each 1 meter the away from the killers current position. That way the guards are efffectively a ranged deterent that can actually be used to zone people away from areas, at the cost of the knight being further away, this would make him into a defensive zoner / hit and run type killer who wants to defend his "castle". Of course this wouldn't happen because people would just complain that escaping the guards would be "too difficult" so we are going to keep what we currently have because people don't like change and the devs we have here are spineless.

I just wish you could 'place' your 3 goons separately on the map like Demo portals, then you could transfer consciousness between them for different play styles.

This explanation seems more similar to limited Hag traps. Leaving loops against Hag works very well, especially away from her web of traps. The only way to interact with them in a chase without a flashlight, is if they're placed too close to vaults and pallets (or have trigger range addons). There is difference with a 110 killer with multiple traps that don't expire vs a 115 killer with 1 short trap, and utility 2ndary abilities. I believe you can't just design killers to punish at every pallet just cause you used your power without anyway for the survivor to counter it (past examples: Pyramid Head faking at pallets and Artist crows taking a health state when you ran into them) therefor forcing the survivor to just leave the loop and hope for another. I don't know what changes should be done for the Knight.

I feel like the way he summons guard should be reworked to him doing connect the dots from a distance to create a patrol points instead of having to manually go there

playing for banner in a loop where killer has used their ability also seems like an option that here wasn't considered or mentioned.. maybe "less optimal" and more risky but potentially rewarding and engaging to play and disarm 2 threats at once. Although from killer perspective seeing a survivor leave loop glowing green with sprint burst and endurance is a bit sadgening. Cant think of another m2 that buffs survivor other than clown and trading distance for whiffs in general.

My daily Scott Jund fix

I've tried many times during the PTB to sort of "multitask" as the knight, such as mid chase throwing a guard at a nearby generator or harassing someone else mid chase. Every single time this has failed horribly as channeling the power takes so long and the guards are laughably easy to counter when alone. Using guards in general as a means of defending an area is like running surveillance on steroids at best and I wish the power as a whole was more focused on defense and multitasking than it is just choking out loops since no killer in the game so far can do something like kick a gen without going to it

Man i just want to see a positive video from Scott about something that’s great in DbD for once, every time he pops up in my feed it’s something else that needs to be changed

Here's what I propose, do most of the following: +remove survivor info, no orb, no patrol path, no detection ring +fix the "bug" where the Guards don't go through pallets or vault locations +find some way to make the time between summoning a guard and the guard activating shorter +Improve the knight's control over the orb while making a path, and increase its speed +Double -- yes DOUBLE-- the patrol time to 24 seconds base, but give the Knight an option to cancel the patrol +make the guard breaking a pallet count as the knight breaking that pallet, cause for some reason, spirit fury doesn't work +remove the BT and speed boost survivors get from picking up the flag Then you can do all of the following: -give the power an activation time of 1-2 seconds to disincentive the killer from just dropping it in loops -allow survivors to stun and blind the guards -give survivors a way to swap guard aggro (maybe by picking up the flag if another person is being hunted) -completely gut the overpowered purple addon that lets you see basically every survivors aura when you summon the big boi

5:11 dude ty so muchh!! ive been saying that for literal months and there are several killers with this exact problem. Its so so boring to play but they keep releasing killers with these problems. The Top 3 for me are Artist, Pyramid Head, Trickster and now Knight as well. Every time I go against one of these I just want to close dbd and play sth else :(

Honestly I’m saddened by the knight upon reading his power I had believed it would function more so like an ability you click and activate which then leaves behind the starting point, you then keep moving the ability bar would start to drain / be on a timer ( main reference / idea I was thinking of is like legions ) and whenever it ran out or you officially re clicked the ability button, whatever distance / path / route you walked during that time is what the knight would take spawning at the starting point. if you walked it near gens / pallets that were down it would then attempt to engage ( unless it spotted a priority target survivor ) but instead I find out it’s a channeled ability where you get stuck ( I don’t even know if you have an accelerated speed while setting the path, but the design of that just doesn’t sound cohesive to gameplay let alone like fun gameplay )