“There are some scenarios where it’s totally justified to kill yourself. “ - Scott Jund 2023

Side note, I really wish you could mindgame the bots. They behave like they can see you through walls at all times in chase.

I've always thought there should be a "concede" option to avoid wasting people's time in an unwinnable situation

there's also the scenario where you die on hook to give your teammate a better chance for the hatch. removing that seems harsh

One thing they should introduce if DC penalties stay is the ability to re-connect to the match within a certain time limit since not every DC is a deliberate one, often people just get a connection issue or maybe the game crashes but nuh uh, don't care, you get a DC penalty anyway. Had a friend get up to a 24 hour penalty just because DBD kept giving them the "Disconnected from host" error. EDIT: For those of you saying my friend should get a better internet, I am somewhat convinced DBD does not attempt to reconnect you to the game server even if you loose connection for just a split second unlike let's say Team Fortress 2 which gives you a 30 second timer to reconnect, only disconnecting you after said timer runs out. The reason I believe this is because I witnessed my friend get disconnected from a DBD match multiple times on a Discord stream but neither their stream or voice had any connection issues the entire time, both ran smooth. That and the fact that no other game did this to them at the time but DBD. For those of you saying it is a hardware issue too, well I have an RTX 4070 Ti, i5-13600KF and 32 gigs of RAM which I believe should be sufficent to run this game, that and a 200Mb/s connection via an ethernet cable and yet I too have been disconnected for seemingly no reason whatsoever a good few times whilst playing this game. TLDR: Your mileage may vary, the fact that this issue never plagued you does not mean it doesn't exist, a safety net would in my opinion be a welcome change as losing all your progress to a random DC and getting locked from matchmaking atop of it is very frustrating to deal with, especially if it happens repeatedly which is something I have witnessed myself. PS: All the credit for this comment to my beforementioned friend as they are the one who introduced me to this idea, you go bestie!

I’ve done a little experimenting and I’m almost positive that bots know exactly where totems are the moment they’re lit there and also know, at least to an extent, what perks killers have and act around it. They’ll never cleanse all five totems if I have Pentimento, for instance, and always seem to beeline for the ‘dangerous’ totems like devour hope Edit: One thing I forgot is that The Artist is basically helpless against them. I played with bots and a friend (he was artist and I was survivor) and the bots had *instantaneous* reaction time against the crows, would dodge them instantly and by exactly as much distance as was needed before getting back on a generator

I think even if they remove quitting by trying to kobe, people would still not dc and instead go afk or go around the map throwing down every pallet and spamming noise notifications

I think that the DC penalty should at least be lessened a great deal, but then also have a shadow system that makes DC'rs queue with other DC'rs so all they get to play against is bots 😆

Im kinda scared of the bots, I've been playing against them recently and found that they are completely resistant to mind games. They play like they have wall hacks and you just have to hold w to catch them.

LIttle though to the side: sometimes the game disconnects you for whatever reason. I would like the option to rejoin the match. I've had that happening only a handful of times, but it would be nice to finish my match, and not get a DC penalty on top of all.

I had very similar thing as you did. Teammate disconnected, I tried to kill myself, killer slugged me. In the end game chat he said "that's for your teammate"... why? I don't even know that person xD And that was one of the last matches I've played, ever. Almost 2 years without playing DBD, I just watch what's going on in the game, but I'm too tired of the design, the community, the constant hatred between killers and survivors... no thanks.

I always say this, you can DC 3 times a day before the penalty gets actually long. if you’re going to dc more than 3 times, you probably are in a bad mood and should take a break.

Actually you made a great point I didn't even think of. They'll kill themselves rather than DC which loses the round early on enough anyways. That switches my stance for sure.

"3v1s are unwinnable" a very dangerous and cap statement with the current survivor meta....

For the last take of the video I also have an example. I hated Hawkins (the stranger things map) but nowadays I would honestly love to play that map again

“They are the epitome of survivor hate” Giga Scott strikes again

For situations I always hope that devs implement a "jail" system for players that mass disconnect, only let them queue up with other people who do disconnect

A DC compromise is always the "rejoin game" option until you can actually que again. People who disconnect frequently have some mentality issues, especially if it multiple times daily, so it's like giving the candy to the child constantly screaming for it with not having a DC penalty at all.

The moment you presented it as two options I realised that's exactly what BHVR are going to do eventually: remove the ability to try and unhook yourself. Yes it means some perks will need to be reworked, but I guarantee they do that before they remove the d/c penalty. And honestly, how many perks would this even effect? Slippery Meat? Not even Deliverance, that just becomes an activatable perk. Might be forgetting others, not played in a year.

Give survivors a way to choose to bleed out on the spot.

The last 60 seconds of the video is exactly what I've been telling my friends about the game. Overall great video, conversation needs to be had

I think there was no DC penalty on the last halloween event we had, either that or last anniversary of last year, it was... interesting

I personally fully agree with basically everything you said in this video because of the experience of playing in the asia region. A big percentage of killers here always go for tunneling and camping or slugging due to path of least resistance. Survivors in solo queue are frequently subjected to griefers and players that just suicide on hook only being hooked once. Due to the tunneling and camping nature of killers within the asia region in general, alot of survivor players just end up just giving up or stay on to greif to make the other survivor players have an even more miserable than it already is with the 3v1 situation. Playing as the killer to do fun/meme builds runs you into a swf t-bagging bully squad 1 out of 5 games, and they will just be extremely toxic in chat in the endgame screen. And if you do run into solo q players to try and have a normal game the situation i mention above with survivor rinses and repeats itself. Reaching the endgame screen, people will call you out for tunneling and camping even though you aim to put every survivor on death hook for that match.

I think you summed it up pretty well Scott. I have been having this discussion quite frequently and it does come down to which side you play the most it seems. I even had one person admit they were worried about the bots skills.

From a killer main. Survivors should be allowed to dc with no repercussions if another survivor has already disconnected. Lessen time of dc penalties but make it take blood points too that will stop the bratty surv mains. Maybe you could also implement a complex time system to see if a surv is intentionally throwing or not on hook.

Scott I have a question about the "Removing the ability to kill yourself on hook" Does that mean you could not try and unhook yourself and 4%? If that is what I think it is then that would mean Slippery meat would most likely need a change to what it does. Or does that mean that skill checks would not appear during the struggle phase?

The problem with the bots too is that they're SO SMART. I was playing as survivor vs my friend as killer and we had a bunch of bots to fill the space, and they always knew where the killer was, what they were going to do, and couldn't be mindgamed at all. If you DC and a bot replaces you, your team might just be genuinely better off, which I can imagine being frustrating for the killer.

As soon as he said playing against knight was worth DC-ing I felt that. As a knight, legion and spirit main.

I actually think that your "crackpot" theory actually has some merit. Lets take a random killer, how about ghostface. I've recently hated going against ghostface predominantly because once i get one ghostie I just get more and more back to back and I don't want to be dealing with janky reveal mechanics game after game. If I could dc against my 5th ghostface while leaving a bot in my stead, not only would I feel better because now I know theres a computer who probably plays as well as me. But I can move onto the next game where I may or may not get another killer, relieving my ghostface burnout by a little bit.

Regarding the DBD burnout, i saw someone suggesting a "killer repeat prevention system", so that survs won't have to face 6 weskers in a row (happened to me a few days ago). I feel like it could work, especially considering that killers can't change their character in the lobby once they've found a match. I dunno, to me it sounds like a really good idea, but maybe I'm missing some counterpoints here.

I have a work computer where I'm at and sometimes when a customer walks in I got to go afk and I don't want to dc for the penalty. so there my character model is just standing there or in a locker somewhere.

I’ve seen survivors hold the run button while their down so they can’t be healed, because the killer won’t hook them and they don’t want to be in the match, so they go afk and bleed out.

I would love it if I could safely disconnect from a nurse game without my teammates suffering because of it. No part of me wants to be there.

why they dont give you shards or some amount of blood points or both if you for example dont dc in any match for a week if they reward you for not dcing and give you for example 300 shards and 100k bps every week for free i think people will dc less

a thought that crossed my mind is can survivors DC on death hook, like when they get downed immediately DC so now you have six hooks for each survivor? or does it not work like that?

I’ve wondered about removing the “leave match” button altogether, like Paladins does. While you’re in a match all you can do is leave the game, and if you relaunch while the match is in progress it will just throw you back in.

I agree with you about keeping them but making them way more forgiving then they are now and mainlly off all make it so a server dissconect or an issue with internet does not count as a dissconect.

"There are legitimate reasons to dc, for example knight in general" I just want to play the cool heavy armor medieval man :(

Implementing a vote to kick system could help deal with the real problem of people just not wanting to play. Though it could be abused by groups of 3s. It would help prevent someone refusing to play or suicide on hook. Now depending on if they remove the dc penalty or the option to suicide on hook make the vote to kick not have a time penalty. Also could implement some safe guards so it’s less abusable. For example you can’t vote to kick in the first 3 minutes in a match unless someone is killing themselves on hook.

What about me dcing during the load screen of the anniversary event when there wasn't 5 misu?

7:33 thank you for saying this❤. I appreciate that you acknowledged that not everyone who plays a killer like Skull Merchant or Knight is planning on playing a 40 minute 3-gen game.

A lot of the discussion is always around the game being the reason and its never really talked about how like, sometimes get DC penalties due to things such as Internet or having to leave due to personal situations. Being punished because your Internet provider went down is just extra double punishment

For some odd reason I imagine parties of people disconnecting every match. I’m kinda scared in the sense where if I play as killer and i constantly play against bots after this update

Sorry, im late to the party, the bot replacement thing is only for survivors? As a killer if i see a bully squad or im having a bad match, i'll be able to DC with no penalty and a bot will replace me?

The bots are gonna be fun for survivors but miserable for killers. If I wanna face against bots ill go into a custom game

I play Knight alot, I play him extremely chase heavy and don't really care about gens and I think he's super fun, and as survivor I usually enjoy going agaisnt him, if he's 3 gen-ing then it sucks and if he doesn't take chases it's annoying but overall I think knight is cool on both sides

My question about bots for the game is that: If a survivor on death hook DCs, does the bot spawn fresh or on death hook? I'm cool with the DC penalty being removed just so long as there isn't a way to exploit it to spite the killer by having them lose hooks if bots always spawn fresh instead of at the hook stage of the DCing survivor.

Well done Scott, I completely agree with pretty much all of your points. I was confused when they first announced bots because of the dc penalty. I did not consider that they would remove the ability to kill yourself on hook, because that is just a bad option, someone will just go afk. If someone is spiteful enough to waste the maximum amount of your time, then they are spiteful enough to avoid a bot taking over.

6:52 - Knight main as full disclosure. I think the views on killers like Knight and Skull Merchant has become too skewed since the meta shakeups started. The most unhealthy about these killers, is the community's reaction to them as a whole. I played a scrim match on OhTofu's channel back in mid-May, wanting to see if Knight could be more than just a PUB-stomper. I was excited and nervous, certain I would lose my first match and not move onto the next stage. When it was finally announced that the next match was a Knight, I could feel the collective groan from the community before the lobby had been assembled. The next 5 minutes was everyone complaining about how the match will be a snooze-fest and to just play ads over the game. First match was close, but in the end I closed out a win. The community's reaction? Everyone was hyped! The chatter had completely changed from "The Knight is such a bore" to "OMG I can't wait to see the next match!" It was a fantastic experience and I think a few people decided to pick up Knight that day. Was it because the killer was the "epitome of everything survivors hate"? Would Tofu been better off sparing everyone that match because it was Knight? The more celebration there is around DC'ing against Knight and Skull Merchant, the more harm it does to both the killer and those playing against them. If someone tells me Trapper is horrible and it's better to DC against them, and every game I play against Trapper everyone DC's, where do I get to form my own opinion? Is Trapper horrible, or has everyone been keeping the newcomers off the ladder?

Scott as a knight main I am shocked and appalled

I feel like they should make it more like OW comp, where there is a penalty for DCing but you can rejoin within a 2 min window. Then after the 2 min pass all other players receive no penalty. As to help the issue of being forced into a match that’s already lost

Wonder whatll happen if you DC while on the hook? Will it just replace you with a bot on the hook? Probably, right?

I just feel like this is such a dog shit take. The major issue here is that solo q is complete ass because survivors rage quit so fast for stupid reasons like getting downed the first time fast or because they hate the killer they are against. How do you fix this? Punish the people who don’t want to learn to deal with the things they hate instead of just pushing the issue to the side and trying to desperately argue for people to be able to be childish and rage quit with no penalty. I just feel like advocating for this in this way is such a major cope and that it won’t lead to the community getting better, just worse if DC penalties went away.

Can't wait for my killer games to be PvE. Thanks BHVR, loving the new game mode

I said the same exact thing today (about your twins take) I had a trickster (I hate trickster gameplay) but I actually thanked him in EGC because I haven’t seen a trickster in so long it was enjoyable to play against from the normal (nurse, blight, spirit, wesker)

I must be one of the only weirdo's out there that actually like play as and against a condemn Sadako, it's a nice change of pace from the normal gameplay, but my matches like those don't usually last much more than the norm so that may be why I feel this way.

If they were to add a feature of being able to avoid queuing into a game with a killer that you have already recently faced it would likely help reduce that frustration you mentioned of DCing against a relatively fun killer like wesker just cause you happened to play against them nonstop earlier

Thing about skull merchant is her power is literally only useful for 3 gens and setting them up next to gens

I have an alternative suggestion. As someone that plays killer mainly, I recognize there are certain scenarios where I don't want to play out the match. Some games are just unwinnable. I have been wanting a forfeit button since 2018. Plenty of other games have this, including competitive shooters. Survivors can vote to forfeit and if the vote fails you either play it out or dc. On the other side, killers can forfeit after a certain amount of time has passed in a match. This keeps survivors from feeling like their time was wasted, etc. because they got to mostly play out a match while also giving the killer the freedom to throw in the towel when they feel beaten. On top of this, there should be minimal penalties for DCs until it becomes a pattern of behavior displayed over time. It shouldn't be a limit of 3 DCs per a day or something like that. It should more so be based on the amount of times a player ends up disconnecting over a period of time. Like if you dc from more than 20 percent of your games, then you catch a ban. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents as most people seem to be coming at this from a survivor perspective. Trust me, killers want to dc too. I have almost 4k hours in this game and I still regularly just want to go next sometimes.

It would also give better data for developers. If anyone can DC certain scenarios then those scenarios would begin to inform the game and inform future development.

Okay 3gen skull merchant I can kind of forgive but I think its very petty to wish Knights and any other killer you dont particularly like to only bot matches because of the killer they like playing, like they deserve endless torment because they liked the wrong killer or had a daily. I will always think Knight gets a bad rep, but regardless of that its wrong to wish something like that on people just trying to play a multiplayer video game

I think allowing dcs and letting the bots play is the most healthy option, but as a huntress main, I’d hate if it happens because chasing a bot is so boring and it just makes the actual survivors do gens. I’d rather chase an actual person ,so we can both have fun. The problem is that the person probably dced because they were in a bad spot so I’d have to walk all around the map at reduced movement speed just to find a survivor who can either stealth me out or start chase in a much better position.

I was reading the comment war between you and pixel on twitter. Very interested in this one!!

Would Thanatophobia Legion with Pin addon qualify as Sadako Condemned tier?

As always, well thought through discussion. Good contribution.

Last week I played against a skull merchant who only kicked gens and never hooked anyone she downed, the game took around 40 minutes before she finally through luck downed everyone and waited til we all bled out. If anybody left that game I don't think they are the ones that should be penalized no matter for how long.

An idea for how to sort out the difference between accidental/reasonable DCs vs toxic DCs could be lenient penalties for the first two or three disconnects followed by much harsher punishments as it escalates. DC one through three in any given day is a simple minute(s) timeout while number four would be a half hour timeout and five a whole twelve hours followed by a one match BP penalty OR a twenty four hour indication on the players tag in the pre-game lobby that they DC regularly. A further evolution could be a system to detect when a player DCs. If such a system detects that a players DCs coincide largely with being the first person downed 60% of the time (hypothetical) then a poor sport tag or hidden label would funnel them into lobbies with other matching players. Same would go for killers who DC after being stunned within the first two minutes of a game regularly and such. Keep such qualifiers simple and relatively easy to track as coding and nuance rarely work well together. No stats for "DCd after being flashlight stunned then tbagged by bully squad" or anything. Just a simple "quit early after stun/down/save/in chase". Plenty of people who could think of a better system probably but that's my two cents.

Does the bots perks have the same perks as the person that dc’d ?

as a killer main let me say this, if we get rid of the dc penalty for everyone, if killers dc everytime the gen pops after the first 40 seconds or they get a bot after the first down we wont have much games at all. if we enable dc behavior we just enable entitled behavior

Can we just agree that if all survivors are in the gate, the killer keeps their earned BP and gets no DC penalty if they DC? It's all I really want at this point.

will killer dc pental be removed?

No one wants to deal with being slugged since the beginning of the game for no reason or watching your teammate get tunneled out for nothing

if you cant kill yourself on hook, survivors will just afk on hook, or chase the killer to try and die.

Im play both sides pretty equally and always rotate which killers i play. Right now im having fun with knight and wesker because they both have addons that can change their playstyles drastically or make a fun build. I get at least 2 dcs every other. Game at the start because of the killer im playing and i dont use any scummy strategies. Im worried if they remove dc penalties then i wont be able to have any actual games against people.

I'd either make it so DC penalties still exist but don't start until you've disconnected a few times, or they start out really lenient and it only really becomes an inconvenience after multiple disconnects, maybe the first is no penalty, second is 30 seconds, the third is 2 minutes and then after that it jumps to 15 minutes. I think completely removing the penalty would be a bad thing in the long run but so would be keeping it as is, so a middle ground is for the best.

I feel removing dc penalty would be a more effective change due to novelty. What I mean is let’s say I do a preference assessment for a two toys. One toy is legion and the other toy is skull merchant most like legion would be picked. The next day I present in the assessment legion and pig which one be mostly picked the pig most likely.

I've run into a LOT of spiteful killers who do the kind of petty shit you described completely unprovoked. I think either removing the DC penalty or severely reducing the penalty is far more preferable than removing the ability to punch your own ticket on hook. The main reason people hated DCing is because it effectively ruined the game for all remaining players and made it unwinnable for survivors, wasting everyone's time. That is no longer the case with bots.

As long as the DC timer exists people are gonna think twice before deciding to DC and this will cause players to not leave certain games they otherwise would have.

Even with how hard I grinded the 3 weeks of the anniversary (about 3000 cakes at the end of it) I didn't face a single twins

actually an amazing video, super well said - especially that part at the end about people becoming more positive about the game after a while of no longer being forced to suffer through horrible matches that drag your mood down and decrease your enthusiasm for the following games. i thought about it for a bit and yeah i genuinely think that would be the thing to make me absolutely love this game instead of spending 5 minutes debating if its even worth opening because it'll probably just be unfun leading me to decide im gonna watch someone else play on youtube instead and hope things change.

I think the only way is to remove the disconnect. What's gonna happen if you remove the kill yourself on hook? They will just go afk and do nothing else until they're dead. So same result but even more dragged out

If they allowed more dcing maybe something like 1 an hour without penalty idk, it might even allow the devs to get better data about what people really hate playing against as dcs are not considered currently in a lot of their stats

I think part of the problem is that I don't know if it really matter. If people are disconnecting because they want out of the game, they will DC, penalty or not, as have been. And if they want to spite their teammates, then penalty or not, they'll do whatever puts their teammates in the worst case scenario and with the bots, will probably just die on hook.

Playing killer and using lethal pursuer got so many disconnects, when someone gets touched in the first 10 sec they rage quite immediately

i think that instead of removing the penalty or giving up on hook, bhvr should instead work on making killers that are actually fun to play and go against so that no one would have to leave in the first place :D

I always thought that a good change they can make is to make the 3v1 not so weak. As in maybe putting a repair speed penalty on survs when they are full (4 survs) and as they go down they get a speed buff on rapairs acordingly This way early dc wouldn't just ruin the game entirely, on a similar note this would serve as an incentive to not tunnel, as in you would want to get as many hooks before they get the buffs. Then people wouldn't just give up once a surv is killed Obviously this is just a basic idea and a lot of balancing would have to be done for it to work, such as in camping 1st hook would be easier if survs have the penalty cuz they are technically still 4, so maybe bring back the idea of having "gen parts" on the map to get rid of the penalty (which would also serve as a side objective in normal matches instead of just sitting on gens) or the better idea of just get rid of the possibility to camp that easy that early Just thought to share the idea, maybe someone has a similar one or an addition to it, on a better fantasy world maybe it would get to the devs or whatever

Condemn Sadako build, 3-gen skull merchant, killers that wanna win by only slugging and not hooking at 4-5 gens up are fair reasons to DC, those types of things are completely miserable and boring to play against. Definitely not worth the time. I had this nurse once who slugged me and the 2 other survivors remaining because we wanted to end the match after the other teammate DCed when they heard the nurse's screech. The guy just said " since you didn't want to play, I was watching a video". Yeah, like, 3v1 is so fun for the survivors at 5 gens up, of course we'll want to play that... what a piece of garbage that guy was.

Make it so there's no allowed attempt to escape during first stage. Have an icon for self unhook in the corner visisble only to you as soon as you get hooked based on the rng % maths. You can use at any point during first stage tactically when killer moves away, last minute or aggressively. Probably no need to address second hook mechanics that way as if three fellow survivors left you there until the two missed skill checks, they're probably not playing either.

I'm with you on your opinion, frankly. I want BHVR to get data on what killers people just *don't* want to go against by seeing who is DC'd against the most and fastest. Also it doesn't punish people who have internet hiccups as much but chronic game bailers will be hit with the timeout box. Anywho, I don't DC in matches, but I won't lie, there have definitely been cases where I was sorely tempted. Mostly during those days I'm going against five-million "obnoxious skill check build" doctors because it's just miserable. And, of course, people who just slug you for an hour (hard countered when do No Mither runs, eyo)

The DC penalty is good for DBD but for the kind of game DBD is I think the DC penalty is too harsh, sure no one likes their teammate to DC after being hit once or getting a killer they don’t like but people also don’t like going against 3 gen Skull merchant/knight or a slugging build with knockout and third seal. The most the DC ban should go up to is 30 minutes to 1 hour, the fact it can shoot you to 72 hours (in very very VERY rare cases is insane to me.

And if a team mate DCs at end game, can a bot just spawn in with 3 hook stages remaining? If so that’s crazy.

I like playing skull merchant just cuz of certain builds I can do, I maybe place two drones at gens only if they are within a loop and the others I put at shack or totems then I my addons give me speed which throws off good survivors but doesn’t effect bad survivors much worse

Considering an anti-camping system is in the works. When that comes out, they could remove the whole killing themselves on hook could be removed.

My take: Keep the DC penalty, but add a surrender option when you are on hook, and you can only can kill yourself at a 2v1.

This is off topic but i wanted to ask for your opinion on it, how would you fee about this being a potential self care buff? Self care: unlocks the ability to heal yourself without a healing item at 65% the normal healing speed. • self care healing speed is unaffected by all healing speed buffs • self care healing speed is unaffected by all healing speed slowdowns Preventing it from being able to be sped up would prevent the issue of it allowing for too strong solo healing speeds, and preventing it from being able to be slowed down further would make it be a nice mini counter to anti heal builds since in solo que you play with randoms who won't always have healing builds. Would basically make it so self care ALWAYS heals at -35% meaning if the killer has an anti heal build which lets say is -40% heal speed, it would be faster to either double heal OR self care instead of being stuck with the even slower one on one heal. The speed of 65% could be toggled, i just did 65% to be safe since personally i think a solo heal should still have a decent investment to do.

Should the killer know who has DC'd (i.e. no change in profile)?

I don't think people are thinking this through... This is DBD people are going to do toxic things. If there is no DC penalty why not just dc once you're on death hook and get downed by the killer, u get replaced by a bot (with 0 hooks) and you don't get any penalty at all. An other thing is what if everyone in the match quits? I wouldn't be surprised that if one person quits the other survivors wouldn't wanna play with a bot, so they quit and so on, until is just a bot match. ( I stand corrected about the first part, but i still make the argument that people will figure out toxic things to do if there is no DC penalty)

Maybe a weird take, but I honestly feel the bots are going to put survivors in too much control over which killer they face. Just as you said with Skully and Knight, people won't play against them. So unless people are in 4-Swf, where unless you all DC, there's no point in it, no one will be playing against the "un-fun" killers. At that point what makes it different than deleting killers? As much as I do like the idea of replacement bots on the surface, I feel like it's just too exploitable.

When teamates are more of a threat than the killer

Other games have already figured this out; remove the DC penalty after the first person disconnects (obviously not for a swf). That way no one is trapped in a hopeless match. Nobody is forcing anyone to play DBD, if people dislike the game so much that they're disconnecting 3 games a day, they should probably find something else to play.