In the realm of free software and open source, the spirit of community stands paramount. It's crucial to recognize that political opinions, regardless of their place on the spectrum, can sometimes lead to polarizing changes. What seemed extreme five years ago may not hold the same weight today. This shift in perception underscores the need for ongoing dialogue and adaptability. We must also acknowledge the varied experiences individuals bring to our community. Not everyone has faced harassment, and as a result, some might not grasp the impact of their actions or words. It's essential to approach these situations with empathy and understanding. An apology, as Chris highlighted, can be a powerful step toward healing and moving forward. Positivity should be our guiding principle. Let's focus on contributing constructively and recognizing the efforts of all members. It's important to ensure that no one feels marginalized. Our community is diverse, comprising individuals with different levels of resilience and sensitivity. By organizing our communities thoughtfully, we can create an environment that respects this diversity and maintains a balance that keeps everyone content and engaged.

Better to get banned than let those people think they can influence you

I'm going to do a little trolling and get redhat banned brb

Tbh everything about this drama is so cringe. Both sides are pretending to not play an agenda (when they coearly are) and both sides are acting like victimized babies. Its so cringe

It's always a Redhat employee that starts the drama

Sounds like a bunch of people getting butt hurt over nothing

So what’s next Reddit will ban unixporn hyprland uploads?

was waiting for Chris' view on this.. finally happened 😂

“Not open for discussion”. Absolutely ridiculous attitude.

Just got into hyprland. Eager to build more with it now.

do you have to be polite for redhat to lock your code behind a paywall now?

This will backfire hard.

Seems like vaxry already made a post long ago even before adding the CoC admiting the mistake. I don't know the exact contents or if he appolized or not but it seems he did admit the mistakes

this might just be the best video covering the situation

wild times

I miss the days of the good old forums that got properly moderated etc.. I dislike discord enough to not even go near it, in the last couple of years. What you only have discord, OK I guess we'll never be able to communicate 😅

I can't believe people are still using discord I stopped when they forced me to log on a give personal details to access discord

So basically, Drew is pissed because no one cares about Sway anymore.

talk about freedesktop, i do found that i think there is "exploit" using the "Dbus" in linux. i dont know if that has anything to do with hyprland or flatpak, but there is should be a way to secure the dbus from non local device control.

I support Hyprland now even more now.

hyprland maintainers and users can do and say what they want. That's their right. Others have the right to tell them to take the L and not have to work with them. That's not trolling. Freedom of speech doesn't shield you from the consequences.

I am watching this on Hyprland. I feel really sad about what is going on.

Does this mean that the „Free“ in FOSS is now silent?

Childish drama. Nothing important to care about. People like to make drama of everything. 😂😂😂 America is fck up with this whole prounce thing.

Keep politics and activism out of Linux. It’s killing all other industries.

chris knows what's up 🤣🤣 sway is jealous and wants to take down hyprland, on a more serious note, i guess they shouldn"t call it free desktop anymore. it's censored desktop.

best take so far on this matter by anyone

WoW. Mental illness is getting out of hand.

I agree with the crux of the point made here. The best way to handle it was to just say that they were striving to get better and improve the situation, anything further wouldnt benefit Hyprland. I don't think either side is "in the right" because nuance and context is a bit messy but I kind of feel for Vaxry. I don't take his side or condone any of the problematic behaviors but I believe he is in his early 20s and has found himself in a leadership role and that is very young to be in such a position. I remember being that age.

You can't get trolled Chris when the sender email is from official redhat servers.. 😔

These people ask for censorship in the name of being compassionate , its a oxymoron

I get that people want to take a firm stance on not condoning toxicity, fair enough, gotta have your principles and stand by them, but its frustrating seeing some people throw the baby out with the bathwater. It does kinda look like a bit of a crusade. There's positives to these discords too, I like being able to ask a sentient stranger about how to use something or if something is possible in project X, its like an actually good version of LLMs, why can't we all team up against so called "AI" huh?

One day humanity will grow up and stop behaving like entitled children.Words are nothing that can hurt you unless you allow them to. Today people have such a over inflated ego about themselves, that is why social media is such a negative vibe and not worth the effort .

Hahahahah, Thanks for the Laughs!!! More important stuff to worry about!! People with their Fragile Sensibilities, Life is Tough Get a Helmet!!

I'm more concerned that he got banned from contributing to Wlroots than the microaggressions that someone was doing on Discord. Seriously, someone at Red Hat is on a Witch Hunt in Linux Community, this should not be allowed.

Keep politics out of code. And treat others with respect. It’s not hard.

I do not want to see purity tests imposed on those who contribute and use free and open source software. That's where I fear we are heading for the pursuit of not offending anyone, being "problematic" or having the incorrect political opinions of those who have power and control over FOSS.

to be honest, wrong stuff on both sides. Immaturity on one, toxic enforcement without explaining why the change is needed on the other. Saying "our rules are rules," does not explain unprofessional behavior as a maintainer.

The best take on this nonsense.

Well. Going to hyperland now

I still believe that the snowflakes that banned ESR need to be removed from the community.

Being a free speech absolutist, I am agast at the prospect of canceling people for their speech and using that power in such a way to deny all of us the merit-based excellence of the few. I do agree with the idea of getting rid of Discord server, but the damage is done and will likely continue.

And the link is....?

"Ada" and his CoC are the worst things to have happened to the free software and open source communities. It was never about respect, it's about control.

The mod was too honest.

they claim to enjoy free software, implying they enjoy freedom, yet they don't seem to like free speech all that much. curious.

hyprland, you got my attention.

So it's not that Discord sucks, it's that it was never meant or built from the ground up to house large projects or communities. It was always meant for small groups to interact about specific topics like certain games or just a place for your group of friends to hang out. But as human nature did what it always does, people started using it to create their own walled garden communities where they can hoist control over other members. That's why this drama happens. I will say though, there is zero reason for people to get upset about a change and demand that another community change, especially when we are talking about something as small as a group of developers for cool software that very few people (relatively speaking) use. This person, if they were so upset at a silly pronoun change from their server roles, they should have just left a passive acknowledgement of the change in the server as a message, and leave the Discord and project. The fact that another trans person at Red Hat found out, meant there was likely some networking and coercion going on here, which just makes the people hurt, look bad. I don't have an issue with trans people, but... if I could give any advice to those people, it would simply be this... Don't make a huge deal out of super small things like labels, and stuff that is not actively harming you when you could simply walk away and make your own thing, your own community. Raging about something like this, is only going to make all the people that do have problems with trans people, even more justified in why they think what they do about your community. If someone pokes fun at a label associated with you, simply brush it off as if someone is telling you something you've heard a million times. If you truly believe you are what you are, then why would someone making a very cheap jab, affect you? It takes zero effort to make a trans joke, but it's the biggest thing in the world to some of you? It shouldn't be, it's just a cheap jab. Personally, I see this happen time and time again, and it starts to make me think that a lot of trans people are indecisive and unconfident with how they think they are as a person, that they have to blow things out of proportion to, at this point, seemingly make it believable for themselves, let alone anyone else. Just ignore the trolls, and be yourself, it's that simple. All things considered, this is just a stupid, dramatic, lose-lose ordeal.

not really related to this particular case but i was wondering.. is there any way to "un f-ck " someones life if they apologized after all that? like is there some sort of a redemption mechanism in place? What if a person has a change of heart all of a sudden and offer a sincere public apology but theyd be unable to make money ? or does it only go one way spreading negativity further and blowing things up even from tete-a-tete conversations?

if people just separated real life from the internet. thing would be so much easier politics, personal opinions, ideology etc etc. keep real life stuff to real life and just be some random guy on the internet.

Everyone involved should be banned for using discord

As long as those things didn't happen in Freedesktop's community then they should care. If he behaved reasonably when he interacted with them in their space (eg bugtrackers repo etc), then they should care what happens in his own space. Unless it was especially egregious and out of line (like whole threads spewing racist stuff).

Software should be about software, not about your orientation, gender, nor your politics and certainly not about hating groups of people or minorities. This world went to shit somehow.

Only if he just used an Ai generated response. Ai is a GREAT PR agent btw! Two kids fighting each other because they are both butthurt over each over. I am sad to see him get banned over Nothing. He hasn't done any criminal acts, sabotaged the project and got banned for acting like a child. I love hyper land and I am sad to see him go, people really got to become more mature. We can't progress if we all fight like little kids and I mean that for both of them.

with all due respect, can we go back to 2000 era? where you can bully and thats it. nothing personal. why people getting soft everyday?

Lyude is a furry. That is all.

I feep that the warning from lyude was fair as vaxrys conduct would have gotten him banned on freedesktop and he was becoming a bigger and bigger face in the DE community. The unnesercary escalation of vaxry certanly shows that vaxry is not mature enough for this position within freedesktop

Ah, I'm not alone! I've never associated sex, race or anything personal with code. I've admired beautiful code without a thought of who is behind it, and I've seen awful code without a thought of who is behind it. Thank you for speaking up. Freedesktop's "political branch" is reducing software quality for all of us.

Reddit users point to apologies being made within six months of the initial incident. This has no place 'hamstringing' GNU-Linux.

So those "weirdos" get mad and decide to lash out on one of the main wlroots developers? how is that going to help wayland support in DE get better in the future?

I don't get it all, but I love hyprland so much. I hope the people sort out their differences and we can all enjoy the goodness.

I don't feel safe watching this video.

nah that’s some bs. OVER A 2 YEAR comment on discord????? cmon man. this person better not be on twitter then

this Drew DeVault character gives me the creeps. I can imagine digging in my heals if DeVault started telling me what's wrong with me

I'm old and don't give two 💩s about someone's pronouns or political affiliations. If they want to ban me, so be it. If they want to cancel me, awesome. I don't try to offend anyone, but it happens from time to time. As I'm sure the post I'm writing here will offend someone. Just my two cents.

So my take is that I don't care about other's pronouns at all BUT I don't like the forcing of them onto anyone. Stay on the topic that the 'forum' is created for, keep all pronouns out of the discussion.. A user profile is 'private/personal' and if a moderator wants to change it, has to ask! unless the TOS for that particular 'forum' explicitly states the right to modify a profile without consent. I see this ban as 'WOKE' toxic behavior. Making a bigger issue from something small. Sure there is an issue here, BUT it should not be affecting other accounts on 'forum(s)/platforms' than the one that the issue was occuring on. IMO Don't force anyone to do a thing. Allow everyone to do their thing. Be respectful to everyone who earned it.. 🌱 😇😎❤️😁

Incredibly disappointed with so much of this. Linux community is comprised so largely of diverse and amazing people, ideas, and identities. Being lgtbq+ myself, and having faced homophobia and transphobia in my day to day, I can only express bitter disappointment in both the Vaxxry and the discord's overall handling of the situation. The "who/cares" thing has also been minimized in so, so many videos covering this issue, and it's becoming sickening because based on nearly every coverage of this event, it starts to become pretty obvious the Hyprland community is not going to care, as they themselves suggest. Pronouns are so simple, how people get so twisted over the basic English language is beyond me, but to go out of their way to actively impress transphobic attitudes and actions onto someone who just wanted to be part of the community- the ban is not only deserved, but I hope a lesson for a lot of these people carrying hateful attitudes and trying to bring those attitudes into FOSS, nonetheless on a scale like that of Hyprland. It seems like most of the coverage is from cis perspectives, so Im not shocked that most attitudes have been "This is drama, this is drama" It is until it isnt. This is someone being harassed. This is many people being harassed. This is many people being harassed by discord individuals who cannot carry the maturity to participate in FOSS. The "cant we all just get along" doesnt apply in a case where one person was just blatantly harassed, or based on the poll wasnt it 40% of persons? If only one side is respectful, while the other side acts in derogatory and hateful ways towards the respectul side, there is no problem of getting along, there is a problem of basic respect, and the onus to fix that is NOT on the one being harassed. If this isnt stopped and addressed, what will prevrnt the hate from spreading to other FOSS communities in the future? Tl;dr long rant over, why does a FOSS project have a discord if the community therein cannot behave in accordance with basic respect for other people, their identities, and their experiences. And to anyone who wants to express that hate in replies, remember there will always be people who are living their lives happily while you live hateful in internet spaces. Not my favorite video talking about this, none of them have been, but at least you cover the topic more succinctly and honestly than most. Best.

Yeah so clearly Hyprland now is the based wayland compositor.

Imagine being of such weak internal fortitude that you are triggered and completely thrown off by someone calling you the wrong pronouns. So many crybabies out there.

i wish i could install hyprland and set it up but i don't have a GPU so.. i will get a GPU especially for hyprland because it breaks in endeavor os

My whole classroom uses discord and its all Drama, Entertainment for me :)

Good to know Hyprland's dev's power level is over 9000

We should all listen to Linus Torvalds. He was right all along. Now we'll never see the year of the Linux desktop. Also, everyone should trash Discord

My personal summary, as a suckless DWM user: Right wingers write better window managers :-)

i get a full blue screen activate windows notification and i can't close it for 5 seconds,then when i want to close its open the settings.Its really annoing when gaming.(i used a spoofer before and reinstalled the windows ).Can you help me?

What a bunch of babies.... good lord.

Merit should always triumph over opinion. Seems like there's no malice in the comments, just some edgy jokes. Huge over reaction from subpar admin who doesn't maintain anything in reality but rather there just to be moral police. Bunch of children

watching it on hyprland 🤣

I am going to support Hyprland even more now. That who/cares is fucking gold.

When hating minorities is just a political thing lol.

Yikes

You deleted your Discord?

Vaxry responded exactly how I would have, we need to rout these Jacobin cancelers out and let them know where they can go.

Chris, don't waste your time on stories about people and community drama it isn't worth anyone's time.

So is this again related to LGBT like that last week's drama on the Arch discord?

I don't agree with proliferation of pronouns being in profiles, but changing someone's profile as a mod is tacky and unprofessional.

Mad respect to Hyperland dev. Agree or not his code is good, I dont care whats his opinion about other.

They/them cause May/hem

At this point because he's been banned? Does that mean wlroots and the fsf can steal / use his code?

That sucks, it's just a two side of the same coin situation and both side sucks. I hope this doesn't lead to the product(code) being cared less, and instead the priority being "which side are you on". This is literally a kindergarten fight between the two biggest losers in the school thinking one of them is the best. In situations like that, you always lose.

freedesktop acting like some fascists lol how ironic

It absolitely saddens me how bad of a rep discord as a platform has now.

who/cares??? i may not want to fuck with they/them but if they/them write good software i will use it despite fucks or no fucks

Just because the maintainer of sway commented on what's going on with Vaxry doesn't mean he trying to win some popularity contest. The key details are in the beginning of the post where DeVault explicitly states he tried to reach out to Vaxry multiple times. Now Vaxry is having a meltdown on his blog over everything. Quite frankly, his blog posts are anything but mature, and that goes for more than just this "drama." He tried to clap back (which never ends well) in response to Lyude and that's what ultimately resulted in his ban. I would also like to point out that bans for violation of codes of conduct or terms of service outside of the platform 100% happen all the time. Twitch, for example, has a policy in place for things like that; if your behavior on Twitter is in violation of Twitch's guidelines, they will ban you from their platform for however long. Twitter used to do the same thing but then Elon fired the moderation team so yeah...but I digress.

Hyprland Won

(who/cares) couldn't agree more. Never apologize

Why would you need to write your pronouns down? Is it common to forget them?

Michael Jordan once said this: Republicans buy sneakers too. It seems people don't understand what he meant still by this statement.

Man, where are the simpler times, where internet was a "wild-west", where anyone was able to say anything they want, and everyone around wouldn't care. What in the hell happened to the internet? How does large % of humanity been degrated? Why is everyone so soft these days????

I wouldn't say it's that simple: 1. The extend of freedesktop's CoC. The CoC does not extend to random discords, but all actions made publicly by someone can lend them in trouble, in this case varxy 2. It's not just a fail in moderation, there is more to that. Varxy used the t slur a bunch of times on his diskord, and he also reaffirmed claims from Lynduk, and posted some conspiracy theories about RedHat. You should check out the Nicco Loves Linux'es vid