I think there is monopose, and then there is monopose. If you take the newer of the Ork Boyz kits, for example, there are some very distinctive poses in that kit, which make for very obvious repeats on the tabletop. With the older Boyz kit, it's true that there's less variety in the poses overall, but that actually makes it harder to pick out any specific repeats on the tabletop. Looking at the models individually I think the monopose style kits are probably better, but for the joy of assembling a whole army - say with 60-80 Ork Boyz - then I am much happier with a kit that leans much more towartds being a multipart kit, where there is more customisability (though this doesn't have to mean separate torso and legs, necessarily). Fundamentally, from a deisgn point of view, it's much harder to design models where the intention is that they will be put together in 1000s of different combinations (I think the 6th edition Empire state troops kit had about 27,000 possible combinations). Compared to a model which has been designed as a cohesive whole, the models designed as a whole is always going to look better as an individual model, but for an army, it is repeats that are what people want to avoid, and it is obvious repeats that are the problem, and ironically, it's where there is a greater diversity of poses within the kit, that repeats are more noticeable. Also, for more recent space marine kits - like the assault intercessors, it's notable that GW are now repeating poses within the five in each kit, so you don't have five basic poses to work with, but three. Now, you still have different weapons and heads, etc, so these aren't true monopose models, but it is lazy copy-pasting of computer design assets.

This video just reminded me how much I hate the new website and how much I miss the old one. WHY CANT THEY FIX THE NEW SITE OR ADMIT THE MISTAKE AND BRING THE OLD SITE BACK

I strongly disagree with "if you had fixed body and legs in this kit, there would be no tangible loss" to the van-vets. Nobody says you HAVE to use those legs for van-vets. I myself did not, as dark angels could not *take* van vets at the time, but I wanted a smash captain so I made one. Because the torso's were interchangable I could then make models who weren't necessarily wearing jump packs and were in more of a dynamic running pose with that kit. (I ended up with a lieutenant, some tac marines in running poses, and a company champion) A few crux terminatus' shaved off and they looked perfect too, which took little to not effort. It's not just the ability to swap parts out within the same kit that we lost. It's the ability to swap parts between almost EVERY kit. And in many cases, maintain the rules legality to boot, which simply is not true of primaris. It's blatently untrue that "there was no benefit to not having fixed poses in this kit."

If you started with monopose models you will never understand what it means to get the freedom taken away to assamble the model like you want to. When i started Warhammer all models where made out of tin and when they started doing plastic kits it felt like i have 1000 diffrent ways to build / Pose and kitbash them. It was the greatest time. Monopose models for non characters are a massive step backwards.

Honestly I think the Deathwatch veterans are the best of the split body because the legs aren't bad, they're in the same scale as the Space Marine Heros and MkVI guys, and they can use the old torsos and not be out of place. The worst thing for me about the Primaris Infantry is that it's a lot harder to make them more chapter specific. It would be cool if they made upgrade torsos for intercessors or hell blasters but I don't think they'll ever do that.

I don’t hate new style SM kit design (i don’t buy them bc i don’t like SM in 40k) but I’d disagree with the idea of torso being separate never offering an advantage - as a heresy player i frequently find myself cutting Mk VI torsos at the waist to repose (and sometimes to swap in other torsos for a kind of Mk V armour). i don’t mind doing that cutting but it’s often necessary in order to create more natural poses for kitbashing Legion Veterans or Despoilers, since the poses on Mk V and VI tac marines just don’t look good for melee armed poses and the assault marine kit only goes so far. ball and sockets have their limits but that doesn’t mean there’s no merit to separate torsos and legs

I think the old minis are much better wargaming pieces- easy to customise with part swaps. Modern kits are much nicer as art pieces though!

This is every thought I've had on the monopose criticisms in one video, summed up. As someone who started in the primaris time I don't have the old nostalgia for first born marines, so when I look at their poses all I see is exactly what you said- a bunch of poses that all look relatively similar and don't actually work. I also really liked your point on repetition- it's WARgaming. There's only so many ways a soldier can hold a sword or a gun, you're bound to get repeats in real life AND in miniature form.

The issue I have with some recent GW kits is the lack of extra more expressive greebles and the added complexity of the new kits makes it a much harder task to make a more interesting and expressive pose. Take the new monopose ork boyz kit, the new scale of the ork boyz is perfect its fantastic I love it, the fact that I cannot easily change the pose and if I wished to field 50 of them I would have 10 of the same pose repeated really irks me. I think that simple but flexible kits are best for repeated infantry because they look better en-masse and allow the hobbyist to if they choose easily make a more interesting and expressive pose.

As a newer player, I won't say I understand the plight of players who love the old style to molding, but I will say I've learned I *love* kitbashing and maximizing value out of a kit where I might get more or different models out of a kit I didnt expected. For example, I bought an old Daemon Prince kit off a friend and managed to milk an entire other DP out of it. Crazy stuff, but the variety of potential options allowed me to do that with just a few improvizational spare bits of plastic and sprue.

For myself. I don’t play much. I’m more into painting minis as a hobby. I totally understand the arguments against especially for customisation and variety of a larger army. But when I saw the newer models start coming out is when I decided to get into the hobby. I really love the models for just painting. It would be awesome if GW could balance the modern dynamic sculpts with interchangeable/customisable parts though.

I agree with you to a point. The posing is undoubtedly better, but some of the fun of the older kits is choice. You’re right that in wargames that your basic soldiers are all going to look broadly the same. But even in the Blood Angel Termie example you gave you can pick which torso you put on which leg set. On the Tactical or the old Sternguard kit you could pick which torso plate your marine got, and Blood Angel tactical squads got different torsos to Ultramarine ones. The problem with Primaris is most e.g. Blood Angels just look like red Ultramarines. The Black Templar kit is very once in terms of faction specific flavour and if other chapters are going to get similar kits then bring it on. But otherwise I still think the old BA Tactical squad is a miles better kit than the current Intercessor kit in terms of army customisation and modelling fun.

I think this is more emblamatic in the xenos races. Take Aeldari models for example. With the old Ball-n-socket models every eldar is planted in a squat with their gun across their chest ect, whereas the new Aeldari models have so much dynamic movement and flow to them that just wasn't possible before monopose. Or the necrons, with the ball-n-socket squatting warriors vs the new warriors that give them the appearance of shambling hordes.

I have no real game in this (2018 started) vit the old kits i have built were really really easy on the brain to build and i do like the idea of the truly enterchangable marine. Though with increased details it was bound to get more complicated models that require certain molding techniques thst would complicated buildi g even if they continued to use ball and socket.

Can't say I agree with you much at all. Instead of writing some boring essay about where and why, I'm going to do the friendly thing of recommending you check out tortuga bay miniatures and their multipart kits. In my opinion the greatest tragedy beyond the primaris design being lame, is that kit to kit compatibility has been devastated.

I almost always want my minis to look like the box anyway so I end up building them that way.

I have bought a total of 3 tactical squads and i managed to pose a few of them in a different way, for example, you dont have to make them hold the boltgun in both hands. You can make for example one with the gun in one hand and a grenade in the other like hes going to throw it.

3D printable versions of the models can be more dynamic and posable.

Those other wargames get away with it because their models are far cheaper but we are paying the ''premium'' for gw

Meanwhile my favorite models are Ogor Mawtribes because they still have these old kits where all goes together. It's a kitbashers dream.

True monopose is terrible but this is not true monopose. The primaris are not monopse. People are complaining about monopose like the ork boyz

I don't like the old philosophy of models being held up as somehow superior. It was monopose legs, then torsos which you could rotate... I suppose. But people think they're somehow not gonna end up looking the same anyway. And sure you get the same pose and body but the old models were literally the same. One needs creativity enough to see a pair of legs and add on a gun and such in a way that the pose works. For example a Primaris standing with legs apart takes on a different meaning and look if you add an aimed bolt rifle vs an outstreched sword and pistol. It's mostly in the head and arms anyways.

For me the monopose isn't the issue so long as there are options. Different heads and such. That's usually the case lately so I am fine. The bad monopose kits are things like the Outriders.

the shock is how much better the Veterans look than those Crusaders. The Sanguinary Guard do look bad.

Sorry, intercessors arent monopose. New ork boyz are monopose. The new chaos cultists are monopose. They are dynamic and can be excellent models but when i want 20 boyz or cultists in a squad. They shouldnt be that restrictive

New Ork Boyz are the worst when it comes to monopose. G.W. choice to make head, sholder and arm as ONE part f.e. is ridiculous. It makes it inpossible to even make the slightest variety in a squad.

5:15 i dont see an issue with the poses given the proportions of the marines.

Kinda surprised you didn't show Imperial Guard as an exemple. Veteran Guardsmen kit (Kriegers) for exemple is monopose bodies but it's so damn good looking and still has a lot of customization with arms and guns and little tidbits, backpacks, decorations... Even the new cadians are the same. They look amazing compared to the old Cadians that had legs and bodies separate... Those old models poses were awful and basic.

I think the real hatred of monopose comes from a low-moderate skill kitbasher perspective. It requires a lot more cutting and sculpting to make basic arm or weapon swaps work with the new monopose models because arms are so often sculpted in, and contact points aren’t consistent across kits.

The only people who winge about monopose are kitbashers who represent

Because people build their models the exact same and don't convert, so you play against guys with the same exact models over and over and over with MAYBE a different color scheme

I agree.

I never got why people are complaing about the new primaris models. They offer a lot of different arm positions and other stuff like different accessories, heads and shoulder pads to provide a good amount of different looks. I guess what most people are complaining about are monopose models like the ones from the Indomitus or Leviathan box and some HQ models. But I don't have a big issue with these either because there are often ways to customize even these models (although these solution may require some (Greenstuff) Work)

I agree with everything stated here. I started this hobby in 2021, and therefore have no nostalgia to blur my perspective. Ball and socket marines look terrible compared to new models. I started a World Eater's list, and the new berzerkers look so, so much better than the old sqautty ball and socket ones. And they are still poseable. I choose which arms, skulls, guns, weapons, helmets, and kitbashes to do. If GW were still doing crappy ball and socket models, I'd probably have stayed away from the hobby. I look forward to the day my Crisis Suits, Fire Warriors, Tyranid Warriors, and such become "mono"pose. Because they will look so much better.

New orks boys I am done

All the complaining about Primaris and monoposing but those people still bought them anyway. 😂

There are no artistic constraints here. If GW made good posable models they would look good. All it takes is looking at non miniatures miltary art for a second and you see dozens and dozens of poses. I dont want old models back because they are old. We started mono pose and people hated it. It made conversion, piece reuse and kitbashing impossibly hard. Games workshop created new posible models that were better at the time and dynamic. We gained a great deal of creative freedom at nearly no cost. Now they are creating better looking models that remove that freedom. So were giving up freedom for better sculpts. Except therer is no realson to not make poseable models with good sculpts. They can still include best build guides in such kits for people who dont care for the flexibility. Its just sad. Art is dynamic. Three squads of guys who all leap exaclty the same way with the same parts in the same spots is nothing like real life at all.

It seems that the reason why you "don't get" the criticism of the monopose devolution of GW is because you don't get what "monopose" means. Sure, the intercessors and their monoblock body and legs have greatly reduced the posability of the minies, but this is not what people mean when they talk about "monoposes". A monopose miniature is one that, as the name imply, as ONE pose, things like the new Heroes of the Chapter which are a salvage from the Leviathan starter box and the two characters coming with it (or most character these days tbh) are what people mean when they talk about monopose. Miniatures with ZERO conversion posibility, to the point that even the legs, backpack and arms can't be swaped around.

sad you didnt bring up the Dark Angel Veterans,.. worst kit ever.. they literally look like they were designed in 1993

You could always take the monopose models and separte them differently, for example into legs and torso. The problem is that achieving good poses is WORK, and these days it's GW that is doing this work for you. It limits your options but also enables and forces you to have good poses with barely any work. Even more, models with very dynamic poses would have a high risk of being assembled horribly. Therefore, monopose. Seeing other people's models is probably the best advertising for GW, and if they look horrible it's not good advertising. Another reason why firstborn kits are being phased out. I really like the most recent way GW is doing things with the company heroes captain, or multipart terminator captain for example. Many wargear and cosmetic options but a fixed pose, and they look great. And btw, GW even officially explained their leg-torso philosophy in a WH community article, about Leviathan terminators if I recall correctly.