We talked for quite awhile before and after the interview. He went upstairs to fetch a photo he wanted to show me from his office and he bounded up the stairs like a much younger man. When he went outside to move his car to make space for us, he moved really well up and down the stairs to the porch. He was quick mentally with no signs of slowing down.

@@PlantChompers Yeah I don't doubt it, Chris. He's quite a treasure. Cheers for making the vid too, it's a goody.

Raw vegan (or something like 80% raw) seem to do wonders for the body. Though there's also more ways to mess it up than a non restricted whole foods plant based.

@@julioandresgomez3201 It's usually the raw vegan diet that the "ex" vegans on have been on, then they praise keto, paleo or carno for saving their lives. Obviously they've done it wrong. They always seem to be these bobble-headed prom queens for some reason, haha

100%.

It’s never wrong to speak the truth. He’s not responsible for putting Oreos on the market.

If you give such scathing criticism of Nicks approach I should hope you have at least heard him out thoroughly and understand his motivations. But it doesn’t seem to me that you have. If you’re worried about the experiment being taken out of context: that happens with even the most responsible studies. You really can’t use that as an argument to not do an experiment. I think small thought provoking experiments can have a very valid role in science. Demonstrating that theres *something* we don’t fully understand is one of *the* most important steps in the scientific process. When we know there’s something we don’t know, and how to reproduce the confusing results, we can use it to develop new knowledge. Not doing it because you’re worried about how the experiment will be subjectively perceived by a small crowd of people just looking for every opportunity to validate their beliefs? That’s frankly deeply irresponsible. That’s setting us up to not explore the unknown. The bigger work Nick is involved in is frankly incredibly important, because they have indications that there might be *something* we don’t understand about LDL and heart disease. It doesn’t mean that there’s any sign that high LDL in general isn’t a risk, or that statins don’t work. Nick et. al. has been very clear about that. But if the studies and experiments that group is performing can tease out the nuances of the mechanism around ApoB and heart disease, that will be incredibly important for developing more effective treatments, and more individually tailored advice. Let me be a bit provocative: I have the nagging feeling that a high share of people in the Vegan crowd is unhappy about what’s happening here because they’re happy about where our current scientific understanding is. It all points towards it being much easier to be healthy if you avoid meat. What if further research showed us ways where we could eat a significant amount of meat/eggs/dairy while keeping heart disease risk negligible? Would the vegans here be welcoming of such research? Personally I’m the camp of trying to maximise consumption of whole plant foods. But I still see the value of learning more about human biology, no matter what the outcome may be.

- despite how you feel about plant based.

Sincerely, thank you.

Lipid energy model is stupid, lipoproteins do not work that way. FFA are used to traffic energy.

Didn't you mean a DECREASE in LDL-C with the increase in Carbs on a ketogenic diet?

@@kazoz3520really bad typo

From what I have seen it has been mostly that stats are bad too.

​@mrlacksoriginality4877 : I completely agree with you. Really bright and highly trained scientists are often great communicators, I don't think the medical student is. He seems like he speaking at grand rounds and not to a general audience. He was too wordy and too fluffy. Perhaps trying to hard to "impress."

@@weston.weston Most people with PHDs dont know how to talk to lay people. That is my only problem with him. He is wordy because he wants to be precise in what he is saying. Maybe he needs more diagrams to explain himself, I find that they help people explain things that are complex. He did a very good retort of the recent twin study, I fully understood that one.

This kid is just grandstanding something science professionals don't usually do. It appears that he's looking for attention to help fund a project that will be shadowed in controversy because of his personal bias and rest of his team. He has a remedy for his own gut issues and doesn't even recognize genetics as a possible cause or lack of diversity of gut flora instead he thinks it's plants causing his inflammation. He doesn't consider the medications he took as a child or his previous crappy subway sandwich diet when he was at the university either all factors to consider. Not to mention all junk food his parents let me eat as a child so It must have been meat that cured him. I eat meat and veggies but I don't think it's the underlying problem for Chron's or IBS. I still suffer but I've come to the realization that some of it is a genetic disposition. Regardless this OREO skit is just to get peoples attention it's just a distraction side show to the main event which is to fund a goofy study. He doesn't have a real job yet.

I have trouble listening to Nick for more than a few minutes. All that plus he slurs his words often and pauses to swallow his spit throat.

There seems to be a particular response in people with ketogenic diets when they deplete the glycogen stores in the liver. These people are of healthy BMI, have low tryglicerides na good / high levels of HDL. This response is such that the LDL-C particles shoot up to like crazy levels, like 200 - 400. The proposed reason is that the energy is distributed around through tryglicerides which are inside VLDLs, but as these get depleted, the VLDLs split / become LDLs. This response is called 'lean mass hyper responders' - LMHR. His test was to show that when adding carbs to his ketogenic diet as he is in this LMHR state, the LDL will actually go down. Processed carbs are normally not very good with LDL anyway.

Hopefully the full discussion will give Prof Willett’s interpretation of the drop in ldl when Oreos were in Nick’s diet

I believe this is just a clip from a soon to come longer version of their discussion. I suppose this is mostly intended to get Nick’s thoughts/reasons and protocol out on the table.

Willett is a criminal

Nick is wiley. I'm pretty sure his hypothesis is that this unhealthy intervention which apparently caused a supposedly positive outcome will unveil some of the fallacies that are the basis (many servings of greens and grains) of the food pyramid that the establishment has foisted upon an unwitting population.

Yep. I'm with you I find it utterly bizarre too

Nick has IBD which is highly aggravated by the fiber in sweet potatoes. He needed a carb source that wasn't full of fiber and one that he could know the exact nutritional values each time he ate them. He didn't even change the flavor of the oreos for his study. Of course he isn't stating oreos are healthy. It was available, quick and relatively inexpensive for his test.

ok so how did the oreos lower LDL double what the statin did?

Oxalates are only a problem if you have gut permeability. Restore you gut's mucous lining and the oxalates will cease to bother you. I suggest either a ketogenic diet for this, or a very high carb, no fats/oils (none!), and no salt diet (essentially only raw fruits, fruit juice, and vegetables, no avocados). Stay on for 30 days and see if you can tolerate oxalate rich foods. I've been researching dietary interventions and it is my belief that both of these types of interventions achieve the same thing - homeostasis of inflammation.

You need to be eating low carb for the lean mass hyper responder phenotype to occur.

@@Hades-nf6tk phenotype does not just occur. Read the definition of phenotype

You might be interested in checking out Dr Sean Omara.

Thanks! Chris is great! So kind!

Vegetarian is not enough, WFPB is the way.

@@erastvandoren How old are you? How long have you been entirely plant based?

Go strict carnivore and all things - including clarity - will resolve.

@@althe I would probably starve to death before I ate one bite of meat.

Thanks for your story, humble! I've been vegetarian for 50 years. When my ldl started rising 20 years ago, I basically ignored it. When the number was pretty high last summer, I figured it was probably some inflamation going on. My Vit D was chronically low despite my daily hours outside without sunscreen. I added extra Vit. D of course, and boswellia which helps with inflamation. After a couple of months, I added glycine, taurine and nac (powdered, mixed all of it in water each morning). My numbers were much improved by January. I do take mangnesium malate and Vit K2. I the only dairy I eat are eggs and a little cheese here and there and that always comes from K2 cows (European, UK). 😊

Yes, but something tells me he likes to be "stuck" with keto. I could be wrong.

From previous podcasts, I think Nick has tried everything to fix his ibd. People usually try keto meat based last as there's so much negative press about it. It's often the last diet that works. Definitely for me in my 50s now.

​@@carinaekstrom1why can't we honest as adults. These are the same people who as children find vegetables disgusting and want to hear good news about their bad habits. Lol. Truth is sometimes the only way.

Except his current diet works

Nick has tried WFPB and it did not help his Ulcerative Cloitis, which was quite bad including spending time in ICU. I believe he finished his PHd education from a hospital bed.

In this experiment while eating the Oreos, his trigs decreased.

What cinnamon is a wonder health food???I’ll have to try that sprinkled on Oreos. 🥠

Eating fat doesn't make your LDL go up, are you even paying attention?

On the ketogenic diet about a 1/3 of people see their LDL decrease, 1/3 see their LDL remain the same, and 1/3 see their LDL increase. Some see their LDL significantly increase. Not every person who eat a ketogenic diet is a LMHR.

I can give you my own loose N1 experiment I ran. I ate very low carb, near carnivore. My LDL was up to about 247, but my HDL/Trig ratio was < 1. I added some potatoes to my diet, 1-2 a day, LDL went down to about 172 in a month. Trigs stays mostly the same, while my HDL went down by some 10 points. Then I went on vacation where I ate a bunch of candy, crackers, and other nonsense, ate significantly less meat, about the same vegetation. I tested lipids again about a month after the last test and my LDL was 126, while my trigs shot up to 71. My fasting glucose was also up about 20 points. Like Nick, I'm not convinced LDL is the fire is it assumed to be.

Dave Feldman did this with white break and saw the same result.

On a recent video on Nicholas’s channel he explains the choice.

Actually, 50% of calories in Oreos are from fat.

There will definitely be people who will hear this and apply it incorrectly. With that said, one of Nick’s interesting questions is that lean individuals on a keto (the strict definition) diet the fat source matters little compared to the leanness and lifestyle. His LDLc was at the highest with a very high ratio of unsaturated fats to saturated. There also is some variance between lifestyle in that endurance training seems to drive accelerate this scenario, while strength training blunts it.

@@ZachBitterUltra with all honesty I admit that...I am not sure how to apply it all correctly. Nutrition topic becomes more and more complex with often contradicting messages/opinions. And it also often sounds so dramatic...if you eat meat/saturated fat/animal protein - you will die from heart disease, cancer. But if you replace it with plant foods, whole grains - you will get more carbs, and cancer feeds from carbs, so you also die.

Thanks, @Physionic. I saw a comment of yours in a prev episode about getting the book Idiot's Guide to Epidemiology and I meant to respond but didn't get a chance. I was thinking the better books for you would be more advanced and better edited-that idiot's guide is interesting imo but I think it needs a 50% trimming. I spoke to Walter about his book, which I studied carefully, Nutritional Epidemiology, and asked when he might come out with an update (it's 11 years old). He groaned and said "so much to do!" That book is great but nutritional epi has advanced a lot over the 11 years and we have much better data to show as examples now, which he def agreed with. I spoke to him quite a bit about the lack of chemical exposures in his book like PFAS, which are becoming quite a thing. He really doesn't know much about PFAS but he has been looking for an answer to the mystery of why fish is doing poorly in his studies with American cohorts, and in European studies, but well in Oz and Asia. My hypothesis is it's probably related to PFAS contamination, which is so much higher in the U.S. and Europe in fish. He found that idea fascinating.

I did end up skipping about half of the beginning, because it went over really basic principles (to be expected), but I think I'll still get a lot of value from it. I have a lot to learn in that world. It is an intriguing idea. Wouldn't surprise me if that were the case - I wonder if this will be a new frontier of health in the next decade or two...@@PlantChompers

Um, I'm friends with Nick, but I took away the exact same thing you did. Don't hate me for it Nick!!

Thanks for all the time you put into this channel @@PlantChompers

He also pointed out that we know saturated fats raise LDL. And oils like canola has been shown to lower it. There's 2g palm oil in an oreo, but 5g canola. So some junk plant foods can obviously lower LDL, but other things, when overeating junk foods, can affect heart health long term.

That's your impression because you're biased in favor of plant-based eating. You're reading into his statements something that isn't there.

The n=1 is not generalisable but not useless. What's useless though is Walter's associational research with its broad conclusions on causation

Yes, that's the problem, the Carnivore and Low-Carb communitiea are jumping on this "study" to claim: Looooook high LDL level are the most healthy thing on earth. In fact, that was the ultimate purpose of the individual "scientist" who ran this experiment on himself.... Pure propaganda for his "diet tribe "

If you pay attention to how Norwitz controls the conversation around his study, that's exactly the notion hes attempting to push.

My conclusion is not that LDL cholesterol measurements are meaningless measures of health, but that a ketogenic diet results in high LDL levels, and can be mitigated with any kind of carbohydrates; even simple ones like Oreos. It should be obvious that whole foods with complex carbohydrates would be even better, especially in the long term and that ketogenic diets are harmful in the long run. The health outcomes of epileptic patients who did long term keto demonstrated that fact.

" "if oreos (that are definitely unhealthy) lower cholesterol, then cholesterol values are a meaningless measurement of health"" which is correct.

@@someguy2135 " but that a ketogenic diet results in high LDL levels, and can be mitigated" Studies on the way which will very likely show that high LDL in the context of a ketogenic diet is healthy and should not be mitigated. The only reason why high LDL-C sometimes is associated with bad health is because it is a symptom of mitochondrial dysfunction / insulin resistance.

Yes.

​@@PlantChompers Where's the second part?

@@jaysanto611 This is the only part Nick asked me to publish at the time.

This isn't supposed to be meaningful to most people. This is a public test/demonstration of his Lipid Energy Model done in a way to garner attention to his work so more studies can be done around the model.

Exactly my point. I personally have people claiming they are a LMHR sending me his videos so that they can now eat buffalo chicken wings covered in blue cheese and claim they are eating healthy. This is borderline dangerous quackery. Many many people will perish from heart attacks from this "research of 1". That's the real tragedy.

​@@billdublewhopper3064 It will be fewer deaths that veganism produces.

Most of all - nobody has shown that LDL is somehow less damaging for the so called LMHR

@@saintwithatiedoes feel like a tendency towards attention seeking behaviour, where science is coming in a distant second place to clicks… but I suppose it’s the nature of the beast now, and at least he’s being open about it here.

No, nothing was controlled for. Not even caloric intake or expenditure. There was no control group. No randomised double blind. Not much can be concluded. It could be that he ended up metabolising less calories overall, due to being satiated by the oreos, leading to reduction in LDL. Also oreos contain too many ingredients - maybe the cocoa also reduced the LDL. He could have just eaten 100g refined sugar per day to better control for that.

I completely agree with this. He’s focused on the ldl not on what apparently has fixed his major issue.

@@chuckv8838 he tried numerous diets and only keto worked for his ibs

I seem to remember him saying he was going to try doing just that in a previous you tube video.

I don't understand either. Arguably LDLc isn't a problem if it does not contain massive amounts of oxydized linoleic acid, so our models seem to be different here, but I don't understand Nick's point of view either. Somehow I thought this Oreo study was about carbs and still, he didn't use plain table sugar, which would have been as effective as Oreo in terms of "marketing" and also would added no PUFA to the diet, which only confuses things further.

People forget that for decades (the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s), while Americans were leaner than they are today, heart disease killed more Americans than anything else. Today, although many Americans are overweight or obese, heart disease STILL kills more Americans than anything else. Nick and others may be lulling themselves into complacency regarding heart disease because they are lean. (It'd be great if Nick consulted Dr. Will Bulsiewicz to see if he could safely incorporate more healthy plant foods in his diet.)

@@aureliaglenn2220 Heart disease actually went down immensely since the 1960s, thanks to lower consumption of animal fats and statins. 2011, the trend stopped thanks to people like Taubes.

@@aureliaglenn2220Smoking. That’s what killed my father and many of his generation.

@@stargazerbird Yes, smoking is not healthy, and caused (and causes) many deaths directly, and aggravates and contributes to many other conditions, such as heart disease. Still, heart disease has been the greatest killer in recent decades in industrialized nations.

@@erastvandoren While it may be true that the percentage of people dying from heart disease may have gone down in recent years because of interventions and somewhat reduced consumption of animal fats, it was still the overall killer of more Americans than any other single disease. You're right that Taubes' efforts have made things even worse.

The media sensationalizes science research to turn heads. They often do this in a dishonest way. Nick has decided he wants to produce this dishonest content himself rather than leave it to the journalists. I'm not sure he technically lies and I see no problems with his research, but he creates a lot of click bait and cloudy content that results in misinformed consumers of his content. He then add disclaimers like only 3 in 90,000 are LMHR's to keep himself in the clear. Keto dieters who consume his content walk away believing high LDL is not a problem, maybe even healthy. Most keto dieters are overweight and often have T2DM. That's why they are on the diet. This will not likely end well for a lot of people believing high LDL is healthy. I have very little respect for this guy. I don't care how smart he is with his Oxford and Harvard education, that doesn't make him ethical, although I won't put him in the same category as Ted Kaczynski.

This guy has an ax to grind because he needs to feel good about the personal choices he's made and how to support them. So fear is part of the equation but I also think it's ego driven because of his age. The less bias he seems to have the more bias he becomes. I wouldn't trust his research with a ten foot pole even a stupid person can see what's happening here.

​@@videoartsproductions1 Yikes...

@@videoartsproductions1I think it’s pretty obvious that you know virtually nothing about Nick. He healed his own autoimmune disorder by following a ketogenic diet as have millions of us. Might want to get out of your echo chamber and challenge your ideology. I think Walter Willett is a danger to society but I read his papers and always try to see things from his viewpoint in order to make a more informed decision. He when comparing him to other more rigorous studies and valid science has helped me to see what NOT to do.

@@YourLifeRedefined eactly! well said. Too many are stuck in their beliefs. Nick is open

I'm not sure about that. All med schools rely on financial support. The biggest supporters are the pharma industry.

Agreed. His "study", unless he can pin down the why's and wherefore, is almost useless, especially because of the medical "category" he is in.

50% of energy in Oreos comes from fat. "Sugary stuff" 😂

@@erastvandorenyou’ll actually store the fat and burn the carbs for energy. The body works incredibly hard to lower blood sugar because it causes oxidation and is toxic in large doses.

@@erastvandoren How does that not mean Oreos are sugary? Sugar is the first item in the ingredients list.

@@erastvandoren The fats in Oreos are seed oils e.g. PALM OIL, SOYBEAN AND/OR CANOLA OIL.

Hahaha, when I started Plant Chompers 3 years ago, I bought two Twinkies and they have been sitting on the counter unchanged ever since. We get ant invasions and some flies and cockroaches, but none have touched the Twinkies. They aren't stupid.

While I'm on the keto side of things, I must admit it's funny that I'm wearing a Twinkies t-shirt while seeing this today.

Oreo guy is Nicholas. Please give him a name.

You do realize the healthy carb is an oxymoron, right?

You do realize that not all carbohydrates function the same based on context and make up right?

You wouldn't see any difference from baseline eating oreo's with someone on "healthy carbs" because glycogen would not be depleted as in Nick's case, so LDL would not need to be mobilized and therefore wouldn't be elevated.

Same result is to be expected, meaning potato, banana, etc. What nuances would you expect? More or less impact on LDL?

I'm sure there would be better results long term, especially if calories were adjusted to actual needs.

Especially when one sides views will lead to the deaths of millions upon millions of people yearly. I think it's okay to be a bit agitated.

I agree. Nutrition science is very complex and is far from one size fits all. We are on a long road to find the answers and retreating into various tribes and putting our blinders on will just make that road much longer.

👍@@Beatrice-nx5ld

👍@@johnow7

@@Beatrice-nx5ld which means we can do it all which means I´m healthy vegan (proven) for twenty years and many are (adventist health study) so whe can thrive plantbased. Great!

Good question. I've been following Nick for several years and know that better understanding long-term answers is a key focus of his research. He's' not implying that a LMHR lowering LDL via Oreos is a good thing. Rather, since Oreos did lower his LDL more than a statin, the question is "Why?"

@@reynmike Because it's from plants and has different fats. It's nothing new.

@@carinaekstrom1 different fats than what? Nick does not eat a high saturated fat diet.

In this experiment, his triglycerides went down while eating Oreos.

​@@reinerschafer1708 So what is it in his diet that pushes his LDL so high? Obviously it goes down when he eats plants.

I eat meat it's not a religion nor is eating plants so why wouldn't you not visit this channel because of being a meat eater? I'm Jewish but I still watch shows about science that doesn't mean I'm not religious though many of these scientist are atheist.

Thanks for watching!

Best to wait for the paper to drop. Under review. Of course, wasn't my call to preview the data prior to publication. But, we are where we are. The baseline data should drop soon (maybe Feb), and the prospective trial also will complete in Feb and then those data need to be written up and published. Thanks in advance for your patience...

Reason?

@@AnneMB955 APO(b) is causal for CVD, are these hyper-responders actaully better off with high trigs or LDL? Both are wrapped in the same lipo-protein APO(b) that has been determined to be causal for CVD.

There is hardly any difference

​@@erastvandorenThe confusion is between LDL-C vs LDL/apob.

Under rated comment. Good point!

He didn't swap them, the oreos are in addition to his normal diet. I'm not so sure there's any evidence that PUFA's drop LDL when added on top of normal calories, I think these studies have only compared replacing other fats with PUFAs, and I don't think the effect was anything close to this large. Happy to be corrected if you have the studies.

@@mcmcpoi-ra7405 Okay I didn't know he was adding the Oreos. I take for granted that unsaturated fats lowered LDL by themselves or at least polyunsaturated fat, as I've heard Dr Greger, Gil from Nutrition Made simple, and Dr Matthew Nagra clearly say it but I haven't been able to find a good study. The only thing I've found that somewhat shows that is this study (Nut consumption and blood lipid levels: a pooled analysis of 25 intervention trials) which Dr Greger talks about in his' video titled "nuts and bolts for cholesterol lowering"

I've seen the nut thing as well, I heard in on Simon Hill Proof podcast where additional nut fat on top of existing calories does lower LDL. It was with Ferman or whatever his name is

Very important comment. I just don't understand the logic of this study. This n=1 study has 1 guy eats PUFA-ridden cookies, gains 1.5kg and somehow it's a new thing? PUFA lowers LDL, that's the *only reason they have been mistakenly recommended for decades (arguably when in excess you store extra SFA and turns PUFA into ketones). Why didn't they just use plain sugar if all they cared about was carbs? Why does it only last 3 weeks? Why couldn't they make it at least n=5? Since when is LDL more important than actual outcome? Maybe I'm missing something important here, but I just don't get it.

Totally agree.

but he is already healthy without reducing fat intake, with high LDL and without carbs.

Totally not the point. Keep listening.

Not for people like Nick who have to do strict keto for their health.

than eating Oreos? ... I'd but this in the category "duh" ;)

I believe Nick's findings suggest that LDL being the "bad cholesterol" is an over-simplification. Oxidized LDL is what leads to arterial plaque. There is an abundance of evidence suggesting a ketogenic diet is cardio-protective because it stabilizes the body's cholesterol response, so Nick's high LDL might appear worrisome but unless that LDL is oxidized, it's not an issue and more a marker of switch to a fat-burning metabolic pathway. A diet high in healthy carbs, low in fats, with adequate protein is a very healthy diet indeed, but many people have comprised glucose pathways due to inflammation. This is why ketogenic diets are so effective against chronic inflammation.

Wrong. The total amount of cholesterol delivered to the foam cells matters.

I don't know of high LDL/ApoB being good for anyone, though. Despite Norwitz wishes.

Eating alot of yams or potatoes also lowers cholesterol better than ststins. Not much money in that for bigpharma though.

That's what i take away from this. It's not general nutrition advice. It means anyone with low BMI with the lean mass hyper responder phenotype really should avoid low carb diets. One of those people suddenly switching to an extreme low carb or carnivore diet is a pretty bad idea. It could also mean that those same people being included in low carb diet studies makes those diets seem worse than they are for other people. It means those diets could be healthful for some people and not others, and suggests diets shouldn't always be taken as "catch all answers" when individual body type makes so much of a difference.

​@@carinaekstrom1You don't know a lot of things.

​@@sammyjones6730The whole point of the experiment is to point to the fact that the Lipid Energy Model accurately predicted the results that were produced. Models that can predict, tend to be models that are "correct." In other words, every study that validates the accuracy of the Lipid Energy Model chips away are the idea that high LDL I bad.

LDL and ApoB are almost the same thing as it is just to sell more tests so don't be fooled by this. The most important thing is to have a high ApoA1 and low Triglycerides but they hide this from the public since there are no meds to correct this. The least important is LDL but they mention this the most because meds can lower this but it won't help the real problem.

In general, simply targeting ApoB is adequate. I don't bother with a normal lipid profile. One time Lp(a) and if negative, then targeting ApoB in the 70's long term is a sensible approach (if someone really had a need to disease regression, maybe more aggressively), and if Lp(a) is elevated, then targeting ApoB in the 50 or slightly lower range. Triglycerides are not an independent factor for vascular disease, but certainly for pancreatitis as they get really elevated. They certainly indicate some other issues with your metabolism that might need managing, but this is on a case by case assessment. This is my general approach as a physician - but there are obviously nuances and other factors to consider depending upon pre-existing disease and overall risks. I'm not sure we gain much by getting particle sizes, and even bothering to do a standard lipid profile.

@@gfmd123 If you have high triglycerides then you will have a bad sdLDL test which is why low triglycerides and a high HDL are the most important. Your Lipoprotein(a) levels mean nothing to a human which is why you see centenarians with high Lp(a) levels and some people with very low levels and they get heart attacks young. There are some anorexics who have very high cholesterol levels to protect the body. Notice how the body does not lower cholesterol levels to protect the body?

@@gfmd123 I agree that the evidence suggests that, in isolation, ApoB is better than non-HDL-cholesterol is better than LDL-C. These new studies suggest that LDL-C/ApoB is better than either. The results suggest that if ApoB is low, higher LDL-C might actually be better. There are two recent (late 2023) papers that look pretty convincing. The recent papers were confined to "normal" LDL-C (< 130) but earlier papers show the same result for higher risk people with metabolic or CVD. I'm curious what the LMHR have. They stipulate the ApoB is up, but if it is up substantially less than LDL-C, that might be important.

Sorry will be more hostile and arrogant next time ;)

@@nicknorwitzPhDOf course debates don’t have to be “arrogant and hostile” to be debates, but that didn’t seem like a debate to me either and it looks like Plant Chompers might have changed the video’s title to “Discuss”. It did seem Prof Willet wasn’t impressed with a short term 1 person study, he added “we have lots of evidence that the type of fat we consume is very important”.

Take a statin.

Are you tracking your fat/fiber intake? Cholesterol is naturally high in my family. I went plant-based to lower it (among it's other health benefits). Though I was eating plant based, my fat intake was a lot higher than I realized! What is measured is managed. I use Cronometer and stick to under 30g of unsaturated fat a day and at least 30 grams of fiber (preferably 40+). I walk at least 8,000 steps per day (usually I get 10-12,000) and strength train 3x per week. I don't eat after 5pm. Including these practices has lowered my cholesterol from over 200 to 155. The little tweaks do make a difference over time. Best of luck to you!

There’s no reason to lower your cholesterol. The data shows that if you lower it you won’t live any longer. Just avoid becoming insulin resistant (metabolic syndrome). That increases your chance of a heart attack.

@@cmorte5 I eat whole food plant based no added oil or sugar. My fiber intake is very high with no saturated fats, the only fat I get is from veggies, nuts, seeds, flax and hemp. The month I I tried to be very diligent I ate 1 1/2 avocados, no nuts, seeds, flax, or hemp. My triglycerides are low. I’ve added niacin to see if that will help.

@@cmorte5 30g of unsaturated fat is a lot. I keep it under 3 g/day. My total fat intake is lower than 30 grams.

I heard Nick talk about this in the past. His symptoms went away quite quickly when adopting a ketogenic diet. For himself, he says he has to stay at a minimum ketone level to keep symptoms at bay. That's why he was taking the exogenous ketones during the experiment. He also recently had another colonoscopy and was cleared of any sign of IBD, which considering he must have been in quite a bad state that he was in ICU with the UC, is really quite incredible. For most its a lifelong condition.

Imagine eating a grenade...

I would love to hear you speculate on why this happens. 4/5 of my family cannot eat sweets ... or else. @@nicknorwitzPhD

Interesting. I got rid of my IBS within 6 months of being on a whole food plant based diet so......

@@reinerschafer1708 Thanks :)

"How not to die" by Michael Greger. "Fiber Fueled" by Will Bulsiewicz. "Mastering Diabetes" by Cyrus Khambatta and Robby Barbaro.

@@erastvandoren thank you ❤️

You could also read some science based online reports which are less easy to read but won't cost you a penny since they are free to read and download. For example, it's over 20 years old now but still valid, 'Diet, nutrition and the prevention of chronic diseases: report of a joint WHO/FAO expert consultation;'. A little more recent is 'Chapter 44 Prevention of Chronic Disease by Means of Diet and Lifestyle Changes' by Walter Willett. Then there is 'Diet, Nutrition, Physical Activity and Cancer: a Global Perspective' by the World Cancer Research Fund. The Canadian Dietary Guidelines are also useful. If you want to buy a book, then Willett's 'Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating' might be worth considering.

@@tomgoff7887 Can't recommend the last one. For example, he writes: "Eating more protein and cutting back on carbohydrates, especially refined carbohydrates, improves blood pressure, blood triglycerides, and protective HDL, all of which may reduce your odds of having a heart attack, stroke, or other form of cardiovascular disease". Sorry, but this is BS.

@@erastvandoren He;s much better up on the science than I am but I am aware that there is quite a bit of evidence that increased plant protein intake is associated with significantly lower mortality risk eg 'During a median follow-up of 11.3 years, 483 deaths were documented. Higher intakes of plant proteins (HR = 0.64, 95% CI 0.46, 0.91) and animal proteins (HR = 1.52, 95% CI 1.13, 2.05) were associated with a decreased and increased risk of mortality, respectively. Additional adjustment for some mediators did not considerably affect the associations for animal protein (HR = 1.55, 95% CI 1.15, 2.09), whereas led to a tendency towards lower risk for plant protein in the top quintile compared with the bottom one (HR = 0.67, 95% CI 0.48, 0.95; P trend = 0.06). Among specific major sources, higher intakes of nuts and fish were associated with a 27% (95% CI 0.58, 0.93) and 21% (95% CI 0.62, 1.01) lower risk of mortality, respectively. The inverse association between plant protein and mortality risk might be mediated by some metabolic disorders. However, our results suggest an independent positive association for animal protein and all-cause mortality.' From 'Differences in all-cause mortality risk associated with animal and plant dietary protein sources consumption' published Feb 23

@@boskomuleeat a lot of oreos for days on end and tell me there aren’t negative side effects from those either, I know they wreak havoc on my intestines. I’m glad that I’m not diabetic but if I would need statins I would prefer them over gastric issues.

His IBD has gone though. He had a scan and there was no sign.

These are flare ups, so if he eats any plant foods that has fibre in it you'll see another flare up as he mentions. He loves sweet potatoes, but can't have them because he'll get a flare up like crohn's disease. It sad, but this is the reality we are living in where people cant eat a strawberry without their whole digestive track falling apart or dying. The first time I heard of food allergies was in 1996, and the first time I heard somebody could die of a peanut allergy was in 2004, only then I knew something humanity was in deep trouble. People are losing their ability to digest plant matter as our microbiome our little bug friends are being decimated by our environment which causes all of these weird conditions like IBD, IBS, food sensitivities, food allergies, colitis, crohn's disease, and everything after that as all illness starts in the gut. This guy with IBS still has the disease or he would be eating plants again, but unfortunately if he does he gets flare ups.@@stargazerbird

Actually, everything works as intended - high fat diet raises cholesterol and kills people. Nothing wrong with the current state of science.

Well, the only real problem in life is to be ignored, right? 😁 I feel like I'm in good company with Gil Carvalho, Christopher Gardner, etc.

@@PlantChompers​​⁠Definitely - an impressive cohort and powerhouse of community service! You guys are amazing and very appreciated.

It’s in willies best interest (as he knows) to continue to ignore Bart Kay.

Bart Kay is funny. He has a place on this platform.

As I recall from watching some of his videos a few years ago, he has oppositional defiant disorder. He's an acquired taste that I have not acquired.

YES!! Thanks for pointing that out

Haha, are you serious? Zero correlation when keto gurus have to consider 200 and more of cholesterol in blood as something normal or even healthier? And all the studies with animal models increasing and decreasing blood cholesterol with egg yolks?

Doesn't make money for advertisers.

You can thrive lifelong on potatoes.

@@erastvandoren yes if lifelong is shorter than necessary. There is a difference if lifelong is 50 or lifelong is 100.

@@Top12Boardsport you can thrive 120 years on potatoes

@@erastvandoren any evidence of that ? There is scientific evidence of the opposite.

​@@erastvandoren Yes, boiled potatoes with skin on. Chipped potatoes deep-fried in fat are another matter.

Seed oils are innocent