How did Gandalf get his Staff back - How powerful was it?

How did Gandalf get his Staff back - How powerful was it? - Tolkien and LotR Lore

Рет қаралды 108,800

5 жыл бұрын

In The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring Gandalf loses his staff in Moria when fighting the Balrog (Durin's Bane), but how does he get it back or a new one? Also how powerful were the staffs of the Wizards (Istari) in Tolkien's lore? In this episode I try to answer those LotR lore questions, that were posted in my comment section. The answer takes us to Galardriel's realm Lothlórien.
► Social Media & Projects:
➥ linktr.ee/TPhGames
► Mistakes:
- I say that Gandalf after his "death" potentially went to Aman (I mean that he goes to the Halls of Mandos). This was just a theory by me. Ofc he is revived by Eru. From today's perspective I would say, it's unlikely that he enter the Halls of Mandos in Aman.
I also want to thank Niahti again, who allowed me to use her amazing art work:
www.artstation.com/artwork/bxq0r
Feel free to check out her work:
www.artstation.com/niahti
Previous video:
• Death and Afterlife in...
Sources:
Books:
The Lord of The Rings (1954-1955) by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Silmarillion (1977) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Hobbit (1937) by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (1981) by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien
Unfinished Tales (1980) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
Pictures from:
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012)
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013)
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)
Middle-earth: Shadow of War
Niahti:
www.artstation.com/artwork/bxq0r
Maps:
lotrproject.com/map
► Playlists:
If you are interested in Tolkien's legendary fantasy Epic The Lord of the Rings and his related works, here some recommendations:
➥Book/Film Differences Series - • LotR Prologue Explaine...
➥Recommended Lore Videos - • Who are Tolkien's Wiza...
➥Recommended Gaming Videos - • Video
The Philosopher's Games / TPhGames / TPhLore
► Social Media:
➥Twitter (@PhilosophGames): / philosophgames
➥Twitch Channel - / thephilosophersgames
➥Discord Server - / discord
I usually make analytical gaming and Tolkien & LotR lore content. Feel free to check my channel (ThePhilosophersGames) for more:
/ thephilosophersgames

Пікірлер: 464

@zeuskhan91 4 жыл бұрын

I feel like the Valar had nothing to do with Gandalfs spirit more so he was reborn by Illuvatar directly, it states he passed out of space and time which kind of hints at him completly being removed from the entire world.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes he was send back by Eru. I just speculated if he maybe went to the halls of Mandos before Eru called him. I think there you can argue, that he did not enter the halls of Mandos too.

@user-zm1rq6xj9v 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Yea I am also willing to bet his new powers, white staff and raiment were personally granted to him by Eru as well. So maybe this time he became an emissary of Eru as opposed to the Valar since Eru brought him back?

@vexaris1890 4 жыл бұрын

@@user-zm1rq6xj9v He got the clothes in Lothlorien. That's said in LotR.

@user-zm1rq6xj9v 4 жыл бұрын

@@vexaris1890 So did he still have his grey clothes when he came back, or did he show up there naked? xD

@vexaris1890 4 жыл бұрын

@@user-zm1rq6xj9v Apparently he showed up naked, at least that's what we have to assume. Gwaihir picked him up naked and brought him to Lothlorien.

@peterm282 5 жыл бұрын

His new staff was a loot drop off the balrog he slew.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

haha that's probably the best explanation I heard so far ^^

@Anglisc1682 4 жыл бұрын

HAHAHA

@swaghauler8334 4 жыл бұрын

What about when Saruman took it and imprisoned him on top of the tower of Orthanc? It's obvious that the staff is a "power focus" that Gandalf CAN make a new version of at will. This can also be surmised from the fact that his staff was destroyed by Saron in Gal Dalgur yet he had another one later at the battle of the five armies.

@rustyshackleford4545 4 жыл бұрын

His hat has +%50 magic find

@Mechadondada 4 жыл бұрын

My dumb brain first read this as “Balrog Stew”, which sounds pretty good actually.

@huntera978 3 жыл бұрын

Imagine being some random hiker or something while Gandalf was just laying there naked after he was reborn. “I need some of that pipe weed” 🤣🤣

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

@drewwakefield4277 5 жыл бұрын

i can imagine Gandalf going to Galadriel and just being "So I died can I get a staff"

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

while being naked :D

@smackfanxion 3 жыл бұрын

Gandalf: "Iv fallen and I cannot get up! Galadriel! GALADRIEL! Are you there?!" Galadriel: "Here, have a stick." True story.

@bishopthefool 3 жыл бұрын

"Please tell me we don't eat lembas again..."

@vondamn9943 3 жыл бұрын

Despite Gandalf being way superior to Galadriel

@jeltemellema8438 4 жыл бұрын

Gandalf staffs 1. His own (burned by Sauron) 2. He Gets radagast (Saruman steals it) 3. He gets it from Elrond and Galadriel in Rivendell (schatterd when he Fall in moria) 4. Gandalf the white (destroyed by witch king) 5. Gets from galadriel and elrond Again (goes to undieng lands) 4.

@kossend1 3 жыл бұрын

That is all from the films and none of it actually happened except the Moria bit. In the books they barely mention his staff. The same one he presumably had throughout The Hobbit he has when Saruman imprisons him and he escapes Orthanc with it. It breaks on the Bridge of Khazad Dum when he breaks the bridge. When next we meet him it just states he has a staff, presumably given to him by Galadriel when he is clothed in white after being sent back. The Witch-king doesn't destroy it at all and presumably this is the one that he takes to the Undying Lands at the end of the books.

@lordseelenfresserdemonking1168 Жыл бұрын

5 staffs 5 wizards

@Mr._Lister_The_Sister_Phister Жыл бұрын

But how does he get it back from Saruman in order to fight the Balrog? Sure the book version is different but im talking about the film version

@wizardsuth 4 жыл бұрын

The staff is a tool. It has no power of its own, but helps the wizard focus his power, in much the same way as a wrench helps a mechanic turn a bolt, or a brush helps an artist paint a canvas. Sure, in theory one could do the same job without it, but it would be far more difficult.

@Inertia888 4 жыл бұрын

Yes! Just like you say, I have always seen the wizard's staff as an extension of his own body.

@Ganjasmith 4 жыл бұрын

Kinda like a finger up the butt hole

@user-zm1rq6xj9v 4 жыл бұрын

I like this explanation :)

@robertmiller2831 4 жыл бұрын

I feel the same, but I think they also use the staff to disguise the use of power. People believe the staff has some magic power, but it is really them using more of their actual power with an “excuse” on why they can do it.

@brovold72 4 жыл бұрын

i always wondered if the reborn Gandalf found Glamdring and Narya at hand and grasped them when he was retrieved by Gwaihir. One can only deduce so... but maybe best to not overthink those details.

@merlin4real 4 жыл бұрын

As a wizard I feel like weighing in on this. A staff is a useful tool for many reasons. In the movies it is mostly used as a weapon but it is much more accurate to think of it as a tool, even if it is great for clobbering. The thing it gets used the most for is a portable place to hang herbs while they dry, Gandalf had tobacco, and other things that were likely dried for use hanging from his staff. As far as for support, besides walking a staff is great for stabilization while bathing in a current, guiding a raft in shallow water, or as a balancing weight on a narrow passage. Some staffs are crafted incorporating items that energy, luck, or other things can be stored in like a trickle charger for a battery, only to be released when it is needed. To make your own staff: Choose a wood that has the properties you would like to see in your self on your travels. Find the tree, select and remove a branch, then strip the bark. On ariverside, dig a trench large enough to bed the branch in the shallows, and anchor it with rocks, leave it for one moon cycle then retrieve it. Build a fire and add dry leaves form the tree the branch originated from. Turn the branch in the smoke until it dries, focussing the energy you wish it to embody, being patient and grounded. Once dry, find as salt rich soil as possable, and bury it for one moon cycle. Retrieve it, clean it, decorate it using only metals, plant matter, animal products, or other natural items. Nothing store bought, no adhesive that you didn't make your self from items you collect from nature. Tie knots instead it's easier. Last step: give it a name, one you have never heard attached to any other thing is best.

@joeyschuchardt8695 4 жыл бұрын

I practice magic too. Whst about you?

@merlin4real 4 жыл бұрын

@@joeyschuchardt8695 define magic

@merlin4real 4 жыл бұрын

@@joeyschuchardt8695 I practice wizardry, which includes a wide range of skills. Some of it could be called magic.

@joeyschuchardt8695 4 жыл бұрын

@@merlin4real I'm a born again Christian prophet so I tend to stick bible based practices like hoodoo and southern conjure folk magic. But recently I've begun practicing primitive shamanism. Nice to meet another practitioner.

@jucxox 4 жыл бұрын

This is amazing

@philipclayberg4928 4 жыл бұрын

His first staff was a quarter-staff. After killing the Balrog, he upgraded to a buck-and-a-quarter-quarter-staff.

@wizardsuth 3 жыл бұрын

Ho! Ha-ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!

@philipclayberg4928 3 жыл бұрын

@@wizardsuth I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that you're the real Gandalf. Don't bother. I'll join you. Just call me Friar Duck.

@joshogden9191 4 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't Glorfifindel be the elf that best understands his journey, I mean, he even died fighting a balrog!

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

That is ofc correct, but Glorfindel is also on a mission coming from Aman (like Gandalf) and he is not established in Middle-earth too. In a sense he is just a "lone ranger" or a "guest" in Middle-earth too. Galadriel had her own realm and he knew where to find her and that she could help him, giving him cloth and a new staff.

@ThorSonOfOdin85 4 жыл бұрын

Lets clear one thing Gandalf when he slayed the balrog he died, and he never went to aman, he went to the hall of illuvatar, becasue only hes got the power over life and death. and illuvatar him self sent him back to middle earth. not the valar.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes he definitely was sent back by Eru. I worded that very carefully, because I speculated that he might have entered the Halls of Mandos first and then "to" Eru, but after further looking into the texts, I would agree, he almost certain did not go there.

@Reisboy_PhD 4 жыл бұрын

yet, we know the Valar could do something about death, since Luthien "died" and was sent back by them, albeit with Iluvatar's permission, though I don't think it was explicit.

@1mol831 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if Eru represents true neutral.

@jucxox 4 жыл бұрын

I love that you made a video of this. I’ve always wondered how tf did he always get his staff back??

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes this was a question I got a lot and I thought it was a fun topic to cover. I should have mentioned that in the books Gandalf only loses his staff once though, while in the films he loses it all the time.

@MrJmuno 3 жыл бұрын

The real question is how did he get a staff after held captive in isengard....

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

in the book Saruman did not take it. In Frodo's vision at Tom Bombadils's house of Gandalf escaping from Isengard, he sees his staff. For the film we don't know.

@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773 5 жыл бұрын

I honestly was beginning to really wonder this myself recently, and I find it awesome that this video popped up on my notifications just in time!!!! I find it quite interesting (and quite brilliant) that the staffs of The Istari were more symbolic among other small things then actually being objects to practice Magic through (though they of course can still do that if the Istari wanted their own staffs to of course as shown in this video). It really beings an interesting dynamic to them imo, and is one of the main reasons why the "Wizards" of Middle-Earth are my most favorite out of all of Fantasy Fiction! :)

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Yes, I think it's an interesting topic too. I maybe could have went through all scenes, when Gandalf uses his staff, but it would not change my point I guess (I also plan to make that for another video about magic, that I will make at some point). I really like how Tolkien handles magic in general in his works. It's quite subtle and well implemented into his world. It has some thought behind it, but also offers enough mystery.

@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773 5 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames I couldn't agree more! Tolkien's use of magic really is quite unique and subtle and is brilliantly implemented into his world, cannot wait to see your video on it! :)

@Quentonic 5 жыл бұрын

I still can't get enough of your content over the years.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) happy you enjoyed my videos for so long. Can't believe how fast the time went ^^

@Quentonic 5 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames same here

@TheCalimehtar 5 жыл бұрын

I share your interpretation on the Istari and their staves: a symbol of authority from the west, not necessarily needed to perform "magic" but used nonetheless as a statement that the power used is in accordance to their mission. A statement so powerful that when it's clearly misused, like Saruman did, the staff needs to be broken and the member expelled. And furthermore, again as we see with Saruman, a total rejection from the powers in Aman in case of death. Great video, as always. Thank you!

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

That was well worded! Thank you :)

@whitealliance9540 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames hey the dark prophet of youtube also has a staff. Hes gonna do a real life lord of the rings movie soon. Click me to see some of his older writing

@michellebeckham5310 Жыл бұрын

I agree, there are also scepters some leaders use, Manwe, Numenor kings, etc...

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

This one was a bit rushed, but I had some technical difficulties and voice recording wasn't really smooth. I hope you still enjoy it :) Please post new lore questions, if you like ^^ Also I sometimes use the British pronunciation of "staff" and sometimes the US one, sadly I noticed too late =/ To be fair this stuff is also confusing for a not native speaker :P

@zuzanafenclova5827 5 жыл бұрын

Since you encourage asking lore questions, I would like to take advantage of it and propose a topic which has been bothering me for quite sometime: Why do the elves in Middle Earth have so few children? We all know about seven sons of Feanor but apart from that it has been one to three sons or daughters at the most. Isn't there simply not enough souls in the halls of Mandos or do the elves wish to be reborn in Aman instead of Middle Earth? Or do they have fertility problems? :) Thanks for your time and effort which you put in making videos for this channel. I really enjoy them and your philosophical approach to Tolkien's work.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

No problem and thank you for watching. According to the History of Middle-earth books (mainly Morgoth's Ring if I recall correctly) the elves have something like different life cycles. In their first they marry and get children at some point and then this desire to have children goes away and they enter their second where they probably focus on greater things and third where they are getting "old", e.g. male elves can have a beard like Círdan. Usually they have like 2-5 children in this first cycle and 7 with Finwë (who took a new wife, after his first wife "died" when she gave birth to his first son Fëanor (her spirit was weary and a bit after giving birth left her body)) was quite an exception among elves. This is also debated at length in Morgoth's Ring. Another component could be, that they had no health issues, well developed societies and were basically immortal. We see a comparable phenomenon in our world too. The more developed a country is and the older people get on average there, the smaller is the birthrate. There might be some cultural differences too, but Japan or e.g. Germany have very low birthrates. People become parents quite late compared too 50-70 years ago. I think this phenomenon could apply to elves too. They have all the time and focus on all kind of other things of self fulfillment, so that having children is not a priority (e.g. for their species to survive). And probably when they get close to their second life cycle, it's too late. And they only have few or no children. They probably also don't need that many children, because elves are around for some time ^^ At some point Aman would be over populated.

@tupacaclyps 5 жыл бұрын

I certainly wasn't expecting to see my name called out when I clicked this video XD very nicely put video too. I really like your take on it and I agree on your points too. This is what I really love about the Middle Earth series, as even though so much is explained, it still allows for so much personal interpretation on certain parts

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, happy you liked it :) It also was a good question and even before I started the vote for the topics, I knew that I would combine those questions. A perfect fit. Yes agreed. It generates some mystery, which is interesting for the reader and fits into the field of "mythology", but also encourages to make your own thoughts (it's also interesting that I answered something quite similar to another comment just a few minutes ago ^^).

@trevorreid4082 5 жыл бұрын

Very informative and fun, as always. Thank you so much for the effort you put into these videos! Wishing you happy holidays!

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Also happy holidays to you ^^

@SunnyLovetts 4 жыл бұрын

Such amazing content! Thank you for the fascinating lore!

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, happy you enjoyed my videos :)

@SunnyLovetts 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames have you ever played “the third age total war”? It would be epic if you eventually make a review of the game if you have. :)

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Not yet. I plan to do a War in the North Review, maybe after that ^^

@SunnyLovetts 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames Sounds awesome I’ll stay tuned! 😊

@hrperformance 5 жыл бұрын

Another fantastic video. I love the passion and quality of analysis. The interesting, friendly conversations that are sparked are also great to read. Once I'm on summer holiday, I am absolutely 100% going to read the books XD. Thank you so much for these videos ThePhilosophersGames. All the best man! Can anyone suggest where to start? I am assuming The Silmarillion?

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for you kind words :) I'm always happy, when people enjoy my videos. The Silmarillion can be a tough read. I would say starting with The Lord of the Ring and The Hobbit is the best way. You will notice that The Hobbit feels a bit different compared to LotR, because originally it was not part of the LotR universe, but Tolkien changed this with the Second Edition (some small changes here and there). So that's something to keep in mind. After those I think it's the LotR Appendices (at least the lore ones) and then the Silmarillion and then maybe Unfinished Tales. I originally used the Silmarillion as some kind of Compendium to understand the lore of LotR and to find answers for my lore questions. It looks like a short book, but the information is so condensed in it, it's like a history book. After all of this you can also check the 12 History of Middle-earth books if you still hadn't enough ^^ They are about the creation process of the books (esp. the Silmarillion) and discuss Tolkien's later notes and ideas + special cases. It's imo difficult to define what's canon and what's not with them. I hope that helps ^^

@hrperformance 5 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames thanks man, really appreciate the thorough advice. I'm very glad I asked! The Hobbit is where I'll start then, thanks again

@ClintonAllenAnderson 4 жыл бұрын

"How Gandalf Got His Staff Back" is the Spike Lee joint every LOTR fan wants to see

@IrishCarney 4 жыл бұрын

You mentioned how the staffs are symbol of authority. Also notice how the Kings of Numenor are always described as inheriting or taking control of a sceptre, never a crown.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

yes good point

@TheKulu42 3 жыл бұрын

I suspect that the wizards made their own staffs, binding the tools to them.

@FantasticExplorers 4 жыл бұрын

Good video!

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

@BlueBoxRevan 3 жыл бұрын

His new staff was the last attacking bonus :))

@JohnAPrescott 3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget Wormtounge was worried about his staff and told the guards not to admit him with it on his person.

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

That is true, but what does Wormtongue know? He may know it has some use, but I think Gandalf without it defeating a Balrog, a being so powerful that it could end the most powerful Dwarf Kingdom in History alone, is a pretty good argument ^^

@DaRollinThunder 5 жыл бұрын

Great Video :D! I for one would like to see some video game videos from you. I usually find you have a nice perspective on them. I did remember Gandalf losing his staff but it never crossed my mind to question how he got it back. He's my favorite character next to Faramir so I chalked it up to him just being (for lack of a better term) a general bad ass. Also I don't expect a video on this because it's honestly far too silly but do you think since the giant eagle mentioned that Gandalf felt weightless, that he can wal on top of the snow without falling through it like Legolas?

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Also happy you enjoy my gaming related videos, I like making them too. Agreed I would have not thought about the question, but when I red it, I thought not a bad topic at all, so i made the video ^^ That also an interesting question. I would say yes. Gwaihir also says, that the sun shines through him: ‘‘A burden you have been,’’ he answered, ‘‘but not so now. Light as a swan’s feather in my claw you are. The Sun shines through you. Indeed I do not think you need me any more: were I to let you fall, you would float upon the wind.’’

@Whitefish81 5 жыл бұрын

Great video as usual! I'm looking forward to your top gaming list video if you choose to make it. There have been so many great games that came out this past year, and I would be fascinated to get your take on them. Lore question for you: We know that the Ishtari and Balrogs (and Eagles) are Maiar. Are there other Maiar on Middle Earth as well? Can we assume that lesser spirits are also from Aman?

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) Yes, this year was insane and sadly I didn't play too many games (I also play on PC only), still happy to hear that some people enjoy my gaming content, too! Also great question. I wrote it down into my notes ^^

@AnthonyDGreen 4 жыл бұрын

This makes sense and answers the first question I had when watching The Fellowship of the Ring on film: when Gandalf escapes the roof of Orthanc astride Gwaihir, "How did he get another staff if Saruman took his at the end of their wizard duel?". A friend said "he probably just had a bunch of spares lying around" but a better answer is: "Doesn't matter, staff doesn't do anything". In fact, across the films Gandalf loses his staff more often than Jedi lose their lightsabers. Sauron disintegrates his staff in the 3rd Hobbit film, as does the Witch King of Angmar in Return of the King. After each encounter he appears again with a new staff. Sometimes a tree branch is just a branch?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes maybe should have included it, but in the book he only loses his staff once in Moria (it shatters when he hits the bridge with it, which funnily enough does not happen in the film ^^). After that he gets a new one. But e.g. in Orthanc he is imprisoned by Saruman and his guards, but Gandalf keeps his staff. In the films he loses them constantly (as you said). So he seems to have some spare staffs there, but I have no lore explanation for it ^^ He only gets one new staff in Lothlórien, when Gwaihir flies him there after he awakes as Gandalf the White.

@AnthonyDGreen 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Well if Saruman lets him keep it in the book it's another indication that it's not actually a threat. Does Wormtongue insist they "get the Wizard's staff!" in the book?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes that is in the book too. There are some slight differences in the film I guess, but that is basically what happens.

@willybillyshow 5 жыл бұрын

Actually, when Gandalf gets in the first fight with Saruman he already loses his staff. When he is hold captive on top of Isengard he does not have the staff, neither does he when he flies of on his eagle, but then when they are having the council in Rivendell his staff is suddenly back in his arms...

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Yes. He has probably multiple of them (they also look different in some scenes). Can't remember how it was in the books. There Saruman and Gandalf do not fight. Possible that Saruman still took it away from him.

@jamestreanor4361 3 жыл бұрын

After the Balrog was defeated Gandalf obviously went to Diagon Alley behind the Leaky Cauldron's Prancing Pony.

@palantir135 5 жыл бұрын

Another nice one.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

@TheDarkalkymist 4 жыл бұрын

my general take on the staffs are that they are more props than useful, if you pay close attention it is the crystal Gandalf attaches to the staff that grants light not the staff itself

@mythrilsentinel1 4 жыл бұрын

Loth Lorien was supposed to be the place where the fey realm met the material world. At least, this was the case for Titania, and the Queen of Air and Darkness were concerned. The wizard's staff is typically used as a magical focus. Much like the wands in the Potter series.

@cpmf2112 3 жыл бұрын

I think the staff is just a focusing device for their magic.

@thestraightroad305 4 жыл бұрын

I found the discussion of Gandalf and his sojourn in Lothlorien very inspiring and insightful. Related to the knowledge of the Wise...how did Galadriel know that she must send Gwaihir to find him? The last she had heard that we read, he had fallen into darkness. She must have gotten word somehow from Aman? What was her relationship to Aman now that she renounced the Ring? It might be a good video to trace Galadriel and her relationship to the Valar...her childhood, her names, her betrayal by Feanor, her desire for her own kingdom...and her restoration to the Blessed Realm. It might be a longer video, but so worth it!! I agree with what you say about the staves as symbols of authority. And I believe they are conduits of that authority, used to conduct and direct the power of their owner...whether in small ways, like the light, or greater, as in conflict. I’m only halfway through this video so maybe you have made this point by the time I am through.

@howHumam 4 жыл бұрын

Im a bit rusty on Tolkien, so apologies if im stupid. The Mirror of Galadriel shows many things, though it wouldn't tell her directly she must have been able to divine that Gandalf went into a dark place from which he did not return. She knew of Gandalf's purpose, of Saruman's corruption, and what might happen. I've always been confused by Saruman the White maintaining his position after Sauron corrupted him.

@thestraightroad305 4 жыл бұрын

WeedyistFlame420 Great point about the Mirror. It may have shown her that he had returned and perhaps even where he was so she could send Gwaihir after him. What do you mean about Saruman retaining his position after being corrupted?

@Reisboy_PhD 4 жыл бұрын

@@thestraightroad305 might be why wasn't he expelled or something. If so, the answer is simple: the others did not know.

@aaronkaczmarek5032 4 жыл бұрын

I think the staff's maybe help them to channel their powers while in their current form. Because if it was just a symbol then it wouldnt look like they were using the staff to perform magic like expelling saruman from theoden, shaft of light against nazgul, light etc. At least in the film's anyway and saruman was powerless magically speaking in the books during the scouring of the shire after his staff had beem broken...

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

He still had some power after Gandalf broke his staff. I think it was Eru who gave Gandalf the White the authority to "break his staff". In this Saruman lost his authority, visible for all. All could see how his staff broke. How can he be powerful if Gandalf just breaks what is in his hands by speaking some words. I think the staffs were more like tools. Maybe they also helped the Istari to channel some power or express their authority over parts of the world, but as explained Gandalf was still able to fight a Balrog for several days without it. The fight between Gandalf and Saruman is also not not in the books, but I think it works better visually esp. with the staffs.

@whitealliance9540 4 жыл бұрын

"There i lay, staring upward. While the stars wheeled over, and each day was as long as a lifeage of the earth." Gimli: [spits on the ground] I'd say that you were gone for a month, give or take a couple of days. Did you bring me a shiny axe? 😂😂😂

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

haha ^^

@masterranger167 5 жыл бұрын

What is most commonly thought of as "magic" in fantasy to most other things like harry potter or D&D is very different in Tolkien's Legendarium, which makes it all the better in my opinion. Thank you for this great video, I will show my buddies so they can learn more.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Agreed magic in Tolkien's work is really different, which I like a lot. It's quite interesting, that while all the great works you listed are definitely inspired by Tolkien to some degree, none of them took too much inspiration in the nature of magic (maybe in terminology). No problem, thank you too for watching, commenting and recommending my content ^^

@OldDood 3 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed your video...I even Subscribed... I wanted to add that I look at the Staffs as a 'Lens'. A object in order to 'Focus' the Wizards Power. They still have power with out them but the Staff helps them concentrate their power better...

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, happy you liked it and that you even subbed ^^ Much appreciated :) Yes this theory I got a few times here in the comments. It could be like a lens. Definitely a valid theory.

@lorenabell4713 4 жыл бұрын

Haha naked Gandalf flying through the sky on a giant eagle.

@vladimirsuigetsu6167 3 жыл бұрын

When Gandalf dies he respawns back at home base without his gear

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

lol

@thedoc4114 3 жыл бұрын

Saruman took his staff when he was trapped in orthanc in the movies. Always wondered how he got it back

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

interestingly it seems in the book Saruman did not take his staff, when he imprisoned Gandalf. There's a hint in a dream/vision of Frodo (I think in Tom Bombadil's house), where Frodo sees Gandalf escape, but here he has his staff. The films seem not explain how he got it back though, but Gandalf seems to have some spare staffs ^^

@deejayxcrypt 4 жыл бұрын

It dropped on his head from the sky while wandering around in a forest. Where could it have come from? It's a miracle I tell you!!

@00huntr00 5 жыл бұрын

I ENJOYED THIS

@brovold72 3 жыл бұрын

I don't recall the staff being used at all in Gondor -- the rescue of Faramir scene told of light stabbing upward from his upraised hand and during the confrontation with the Witch King at the gate no weapon was indicated. I think he had grown beyond these props by then.

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

Yes good point. The staff is definitely mentioned less. Here's the passage again from the Siege of Gondor: "One wheeled towards him; but it seemed to Pippin that he raised his hand, and from it a shaft of white light stabbed upwards. The Nazgûl gave a long wailing cry and swerved away"

@SlideRulePirate 5 жыл бұрын

Perhaps Gandalf's Staff is like Normy's Sword. It's not so much 'need' as a simple "I like it".

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Yes that's a possibility too ^^

@kirbymarchbarcena 4 жыл бұрын

As I recall, Gandalf lost four staffs in the Peter Jackson movies...3 in the LOTR and one destroyed by Sauron in The Hobbit part 2. I don't think these power staffs got warranties,right?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes he "loses" a lot of them ^^ haha good question. Does he have warranty on the staffs or maybe an insurance?

@GanonGhidorah 4 жыл бұрын

I know he loses his staff in Fellowship, and then again against the Witch King in Return of the King, so that's twice...but when was the third time he lost it in the LOTR trilogy?

@LewisThomas19980405 4 жыл бұрын

GanonGhidorah doesn’t he lose it during his fight vs Saruman at Isengard?

@waynepurcell6058 4 жыл бұрын

@Captain Caveman That was the Harbor Freight staff?

@Rampagedd 4 жыл бұрын

Love that durins bane took down so many. Until he met gandalf :D

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes that's a good point. He destroyed everyone he met until he met Gandalf.

@Rincewind19 3 жыл бұрын

A staff is a conduit through which powers may be channeled by those with power who reside in a physical body.

@Faayde 4 жыл бұрын

Galadriel is knowledgable in all things the velar taught the elves. Perhaps staff crafting?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

That's a good point.

@keithhinke3277 3 ай бұрын

In the movies they definitely have the staff as powerful magic. Either with innate power or as a channeling device.

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 ай бұрын

Yes in the movies for sure, esp. the fight between Saruman and Gandalf indicates this. In the books it seems a bit different though.

@Faayde 3 жыл бұрын

Regardless of how much power it has, it is something that had to be crafted. The most knowedgeable person in every art/knowledge of the valar, by lore, is Galadriel. This would include crafting of powerful items including her mirror. So whether it was an artifact of great power, or an item to channel power through, Galadriel would be one of the few people in all of middle earth, if not the only one, who could craft such an item.

@matthewbreytenbach4483 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Fun fact, in the Hobbit Gandalf is described as using a wand for a large amount of the book.

@jaygozer3883 4 жыл бұрын

this is why the 2 blue wizards are gandalf and radagast

@pemo2676 3 жыл бұрын

Imagine you're travelling near the mountains, and see a naked man with white hair running around towards the forest

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

haha :D

@Prince_the_One 3 жыл бұрын

Lol he flew with an eagle he didn't wander naked

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

@@Prince_the_One haha yes, but he flew on it naked 😅 And he had to land in Lothlórien to get new clothes

@Prince_the_One 3 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames in my mind the eagle took him directly to Galadriel and she knew he was coming anyway because she the Lady of the Wood and she had some robes ready lol

@asb2s 4 жыл бұрын

How did Gandalf get his staff back when he escaped Orthanc? Saruman took it from him before he was imprisoned on top of the tower. His new one was literally an exact replica or the same staff somehow. Seems like Gandalf has a few backups lying around.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

I sadly don't have a very interensting answer. In the book Saruman does not take Gandalf's staff away. So he does not lose it here. In the films - as you say - he seems to have several backup staffs ^^

@xtheory 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames Doesn’t it seem weird that he would allow him to keep his staff?

@collinstorlie7296 3 жыл бұрын

Good video my dude. What about a video concerning the mortal beings who depart for Valinor at the end of the third age? I'd like to know your thoughts on whether Bilbo/Frodo/Samwise/Gimli have a fate apart from the rest of their kin? Do they live forever, or eventually pass to the Halls of Mandos?

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you :) I have a somewhat related video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mK9ndL2T3NHOpnk.html No I don't think that they have a different fate or become immortal. They will die at some point and follow the fate of their people. (Hobbits are counted towards Men). It's just a special honour for them to go to Aman and heal from their burdens. Gimli is an interesting case, because Dwarves are probably not banned from Aman (which is different for Men).

@richardstroh9284 4 жыл бұрын

I think the staff was simlar to a wand a wand isnt the source of power but its a object that allows them to use their powers it isnt the source of their magic ,it just helps them cast spells and use their powers

@smackfanxion 3 жыл бұрын

Am I the only one that was picturing the Witch King moment from the movies when reading the title?(I know, it was a movie goof and not a 'canon' moment)

@darkbloxjr 4 жыл бұрын

In the book, Gandalf’s staff shatters not long before he dies, in the movie Saroman’s staff shatters not long before he dies. I personally think their staves are tied to their life force in some way.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

That's an interesting thought.

@mikadsu 4 жыл бұрын

But in some video it was said that the balrog did not die. Not sure if that was referring to the undying lands also, but the balrog just wont get back from there or something.

@jssandler 4 жыл бұрын

In the extended Return of the King, Gandalf's staff was destroyed by the Witch King in the battle of Minas Tirith. Later, he had it back. I don't recall if this happened in the book.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes it's only in the extended version and also one of the few changes I don't really understand. It's not in the book (the Witchking hears Rohan's army arriving and leaves Gandalf be). Gandalf actually only loses his staff once in the book and that is in Moria, where it shatters, when he destroys the bridge with the Balrog on it. Interestingly the staff does not shatter in the film ^^

@robertvecchiarello4863 4 жыл бұрын

The staves were tools to focus the will of Illuvatar. Surprised you didn’t mention Wyrmtongues disdain when discovering the House guards of Rohan let Gandalf in the throne room with his staff.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

I think that's a weird one, because the books imply that Théoden was poisoned by Gríma too. Ofc th staff is mentioned, but it still represents his authority and is a useful tool.

@robertvecchiarello4863 4 жыл бұрын

Gandalf was allowed entrance like the others but without their weapons. Clearly Wyrmtongue considered the staff as dangerous as the rest of the company’s arsenal

@thestraightroad305 4 жыл бұрын

Robert Vecchiarello He would know that from his service to Saruman. I agree.

@Alandennis1 4 жыл бұрын

I always believed Gandalf got a new staff made for him by elves since they may have been able to help strengthen the magic but also because it greatly resembled Elvin structures (like the white and rounded roves or canopies in Rivendell).

@Zikuth 4 жыл бұрын

Galadriel was just a good friend in the way and had information. All the others were there before as well after Moria

@gregorybrown7179 4 жыл бұрын

I didn't know Wolfgang Puck was such a LOTR fan

@aidkik580 3 жыл бұрын

Gandalf actually went up to her an was like, " you kno everytime you die and resurect you gain 5 inches and I was no slouch before I died 😏😎😈

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

wow ^^'

@sarikatimmi 4 жыл бұрын

why is it that such iconic lines are always remembered incorrectly (vader to luke, gandalf to the balrog)

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Did I quote a line wrong? For LotR Quotes sometimes the lines are slightly different in the book (I usually go with the book quote). I guess when you haven't seen scene for a long time you mind changes it a bit in it's memory and in social media other people have this too and quite it wrong, so the effect gets amplified because you read the wrong quote a lot. PS: I'm also bad a memorizing quotes precisely.

@sarikatimmi 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames no no not you! i was wondering aloud simply bc ppl often forget “you shall not pass” was the second line from gandalf (therefore not the only), and “i am your father, luke” is the line i believe; not the one most quote as “luke, i am your father”. nothing at all to do w you, your vids are fantastic!

@christiancook2784 3 жыл бұрын

However, (at least in the movies) Grima gets upset in The Two Towers when they did not take Gandalf's staff, making it appear that he needs to use it as a catalyst for his power... Gandalf and Saruman fought and when he lost his staff to Saruman, he was no longer able to fight back... Saurman did not attack once his staff was broken... when the Witch King broke the new staff, Gandalf only used his sword from that point and no magic..... not once did they show an actual power being performed without his staff - in the movies... have not read all of the books

@sandorsbox 4 жыл бұрын

You would be incorrect I’m assuming that the staff is only a symbol. After Saruman’s staff is broken, he can no longer use his magical powers. He still retained his persuasive nature but not his magic. Because if this I think it is clear that the staves, whole perhaps not magical, must be at least conduits of their power. Gandalf defeats the Balrog without his, but doing so essentially burns out his body

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Isn't this a contradiction? > After Saruman’s staff is broken, he can no longer use his magical powers. > Gandalf defeats the Balrog without his, but doing so essentially burns out his body Why should there be other rules for Gandalf? "Burns out his body" is also your interpretation of what happens. Quote from LotR: "I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin. Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell." This is all we know. But if the staff is needed, why can he defeat a Balrog? We can even read: Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. So Gandalf not having power without his staff makes no sense. It's factually wrong. So what's with Saruman? How about Saruman can't use his power because he was officially expelled from the order by Gandalf the White who was sent back by Eru himself? The staff was for sure convenient. Maybe even to "channel" power, but it was definitely not necessary for at least Gandalf. There is no greater magical deed than fighting a Balrog for 10 days and killing it (without his staff).

@worldtraveler930 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Yea I am going to agree with ThePhilosopherGames on this one

@sandorsbox 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames The point concerning a lack of supporting textual evidence for Gandalf burning himself out without his staff is firmly conceded. But bear in mind that Saruman losing his power because he was cast from the order also has no textual evidence. The one correlating factor is the loss of his staff. As a counter point, however, Gandalf DID possess the Ring of Fire, Narya. This could explain why he was able to call upon lightning to strike the Balrog. After all, Gandalf was known for his affinity with fire and lights. His possession of Narya could have influenced this and even allowed him greater control. I know that Elrond said The Three "were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power" but that may not mean they cannot be used to enhance the wearer's power in that regard.

@briarhawkins1684 4 жыл бұрын

How did Gandalf the Grey get his staff back after being rescued from Orthanc...?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

The answer is pretty boring ^^ In the books he did not lose it in Orthanc and Saruman and Gandalf do not fight. Saruman and I assume his guards (it's just stated "they") took Gandalf to the top of Orthanc over a narrow stair, where he was imprisoned. The vision/dream Frodo has of this in Tom Bombadil's house indicates, that Gandalf had indeed still his staff on top of Orthanc (it's described in the vision/dream). How he gets it back in the film nobody knows though ^^

@edienandy 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames he didn’t get his staff back in the film, he just got a new one. They look kinda similar but if you look closely you can see they’re very different.

@billylyons7212 Жыл бұрын

Wizard/shaman staff's are upside down little trees. The roots are connected to the upper realm and the wizard/shaman brings the power and wisdom down to the rest of us. The fancy staff's in the movies are obviously designed to look more magical instead of based on real mystical tools.

@ThePhilosophersGames Жыл бұрын

oh pretty interesting point 👍

@alexdokonaly2778 4 жыл бұрын

and idk if its true but there are theries like the staff of saruman gives him a enchant on his power of words and stuff

@issakelly8071 4 жыл бұрын

Gandalf did not go to the Undying Lands when he met his end. Tolkein confirms it----"He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. 'Naked I was sent back - for a time, until my task is done'. Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the 'gods' whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed 'out of thought and time'."

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

That's a very good point. I always assumed this means: he did not go to the Valar (or council with them), but to Eru. So it was not the power of the Valar that sent him back. Imo he could have gone to Eru through the Halls of Mandos too (like Men do in a sense), so I assumed he would go there first and then to e.g. the Timeless Halls. But you are probably right. Another detail is ofc that this is from a draft letter, that seems not to be sent.

@issakelly8071 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames I sometimes wonder if the Valar would have even bothered to send Gandalf back if they could; given that their emissaries up till that point weren't doing such a bang up job. I don't think they would have the power to create such a drastic change in Gandalf as seen in Gandalf the white. There was something different about Gandalf than a mere increase in power. Merry and Pippin noted a sort of shift in his personality.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

I fully agree imo it's really important that Eru brings Gandalf back. I don't think the Valar would have the power to "change" Gandalf in this way. And who knows, the story could have taken a different end, if the Valar would have sent him back. In addition Gollum's fate of tripping and falling down into the fiery pits of Mount Doom was also Eru's work. So Eru intervened in the events of The Lord of the Rings quite massively.

@sarikatimmi 4 жыл бұрын

i have tried to make it through the silmarillion so many times. perhaps i’ll try again to better understand this all

@darthjaymoonstar6 4 жыл бұрын

his staff did brake in the movie when he slammed it down it brock at the bottom

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

In Khazad-dûm/Moria? No it was still intact after slamming it on the ground. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o7CKjbF5ytGpgas.html

@JamesJrChi 4 жыл бұрын

Walmart. He got it at a discount.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

lol

@seldonwright4345 4 жыл бұрын

Bulk discount maybe

@coffeebreakhero3743 5 жыл бұрын

can you analyze shelob's connection to sauron in the books, movies and games?

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Noted it. In case you can't wait, I have a bit of it in my SoW lore comparison video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5OXqbVoztWumnU.html (there should be times in the description)

@tadstar6194 4 жыл бұрын

gandalf fell into the chasm in moria and ended up on a mountain top somewhere? how high were was he when he fell?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

I think we don't know an exact number, but it was so deep, that there we nobody before (Gandalf saw "Nameless Things", that not even Sauron knew about). The dwarves however once build a staircase to a very low region, which the Balrog knew the way to. these stairs led from far below the earth up to the top of the mountain.

@alexandergabel9208 4 жыл бұрын

What if radagast the brown found the one ring instead of Bilbo baggins during TheHobbit how would this change the story going forward through the Lord of the rings and from when Bilbo baggins finds the ring in The Hobbit?

@losthor1zon 5 жыл бұрын

The question isn't how he got his staff after Moria, the question is (in the movie) how he gets it back after his imprisonment on Orthanc, because Saruman has taken it away from him. In the book it's not an issue, because he never loses it in the first place. After Moria, the Elves in Lothlorien make him a new staff, so that's never even a question.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Yes, in the books, Saruman does not take away Gandalf's staff, when he is imprisoned on the top of Orthanc. In the films he has (I think) 2 different staffs as Gandalf the Grey. One with his pipe on it (but no crystal) and then the one with the crystal (which also appears in the Hobbit if I recall correctly).

@losthor1zon 5 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Hmm... maybe. I thought he put the crystal in place as they entered Moria, for illumination.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

yes, that's possible too, have to re-watch this scene at some point ^^

@edienandy 4 жыл бұрын

losthor1zon he has two different staffs in FOTR. The one he loses to Saruman and the one he replaces the previous one with. They’re very similar looking but if you look closely you can see they’re two different objects. You’re right though, he does place the crystal in the staff to illuminate the mines of Moria.

@edienandy 4 жыл бұрын

ThePhilosophersGames the staff Gandalf has in The Hobbit is a different one from the two that appear in FOTR.

@toonsis 4 жыл бұрын

It was a tree limb....the Istair did not need a magic stick. …….Can we ask where did he get his magic pointy hat back ?

@user-zm1rq6xj9v 4 жыл бұрын

A way of showing Sauron he was cast from the order/disgraced... Also notice Gandalf's new staff clerely was the same color as his new garb... while Saruman's staff was always a color dfferent from his own garbs.. almost like to show that Gandalf was higher than him now.

@bevoburn 5 жыл бұрын

This whole time i thought Gandalf bought his replacement staff from eBay.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

lol you mean MeBay? :P

@losthor1zon 5 жыл бұрын

IKEA.

@17Watman 5 жыл бұрын

Not eBay, Amazon.

@jondoes8222 4 жыл бұрын

In the bible Moses carried a powerful staff.

@Toviyah 4 жыл бұрын

Ron Delby actually his staff wasn’t strong it was a base so Gods power could go through it to do all the miracles that Moses showed through his staff

@pkhjdlkfjandljfn 4 жыл бұрын

It was a snake disguised, possibly by a polymorph spell, into a Staff. There's a difference.... >.

@brovold72 3 жыл бұрын

Would it be powerful had someone else picked it up? Like a Sorcerer's Apprentice situation? My guess is no.

@willyg2k10 3 жыл бұрын

Moses was a wizard confirmed

@mrcarl4855 3 жыл бұрын

@@willyg2k10 hahaha yeah

@cameroncowles407 3 жыл бұрын

He gets a staff so they can sell it as a toy (merchandising)

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

lol in these days that would be kind of true 😅

@tfcwow 5 жыл бұрын

Why tom bombadil wasn't more usefull? I know his like nature and he dont fight but why he dont help the istari and others with his knowlage of the world? Great video Stay awsome!

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

I write the question down. It's also Difficult question, but I plan on doing a video about him in the near future anyway. PS: Thank you, I'll try :)

@jasonweaver4102 5 жыл бұрын

Tom Bombadil did render aid in his own way when he aided the hobbits. But as a possible Maier, I believe he was forbidden to act directly by the Valar. The use of his abilities would have seriously upset the balance of natural life in Middle Earth. Especially seeing he had more power and dominance of will than the One Ring.

@nunya___ 4 жыл бұрын

Tom IMO was lord of his manor and old reflection of Tolkien's time; A man's rule ends at his property.

@phillawrence5148 2 жыл бұрын

How di dh get his staff back off Saruman or is that a new staff?

@ThePhilosophersGames 2 жыл бұрын

Surprisingly in the books Saruman did not take his staff, so he still had it when he was picked up by Gwaihir. In the films it's different, but not explained. he probably got a new staff.

@phillawrence5148 2 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames Thanks for the quick response, prob just a continuity error lol. Thanks again :)

@ThePhilosophersGames 2 жыл бұрын

no problem ^^ Yes you are right, probably just a continuity error. Funnily enough in the book, Gandalf's staff explodes when he hits and splits the bridge of Khazad-dûm with it, but in the film that does not happen 😂

@thomasgilsfeldt9003 4 жыл бұрын

How did he get it back from Saruman after being rescued by the eagle from the top of Orphanc? At that time, he was still Gandalf the Grey and at the council at Rivendell, he's got his staff (at least in the movie)...

@thomasgilsfeldt9003 4 жыл бұрын

Great channel btw - very informative and entertaining 👌

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, happy you like it :) The answer is probably very unspectacular, but in the book Gandalf simply does not lose his staff. He is led by "them" (I assume Saruman and some guards) up to the tower over a narrow stair and has to stay there. In a dream/vision Frodo has of this in Tom Bombadil's house he sees how Gandalf is picked up by a Great Eagle at night and he also his staff is mentioned in this dream/vision. Then Gwaihir flew him to Edoras (Rohan), where Gandalf took Shadowfax and rode back to the Shire from there. I think the next mention of his staff is in Rivendell during the council. But it seems he never lost his staff there and the films just porreyed it very differently. I think I mention it in my LotR films and books references and differences series, if you are interested. But I dont know what episode. I think it's in episode 12 or 13: kzfaq.info/sun/PLvqIed90tYZoiZZ-mAGxp6NnUrdURe0Uq

@Mistanyycguy 3 жыл бұрын

Would love to see movies of Morgoth era

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

yes first age in a series or films would be great.

@GuTRoT-OwN 4 жыл бұрын

What about when Gandalf borrows Radagasts staff and Radagast tells him "It works, you just have to fiddle with the top." Then later when going into battle he tries to do what he did against the balrog and bangs the staff on the ground, twice, and it won't work because Radagasts staff isn't working properly?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

I don't think that they would borrow staffs ^^

@GuTRoT-OwN 4 жыл бұрын

Was this just a liberty taken by the film makers then? I just rewatched the hobbit trilogy extended cut and Radagast loans his staff to Gandalf

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, Radagast is only mentioned by Bëorn once in the Hobbit book and the Dol Guldur story is actually from the LotR Appendices, but Radagast does not appear in it. Interestingly Radagast actually appears in the LotR main story very shortly (he gives Gandalf message from Saruman to meet with the White Wizard in Isengard). But not mention of Radagast's staff.

@GuTRoT-OwN 4 жыл бұрын

Ahh ok so basically it's a case of the Movie straying away from the truth, possibly misrepresenting the nature of the Staffs for what ever reason. Of course I would always side with the books and Tolkens original vision. Ty

@KenDelloSandro7565 4 жыл бұрын

Tolkien was a Catholic and if anyone grew up as a traditional Catholic they would understand all these symbols throughout the books probably a little better than others. Gandolf is like a Bishop, the staff his crozier. If you notice he mimics a Bishop in soo many ways. Giving advice to guide, and like a Bishop, he crowns the King. Also leading the requiem ( funeral ) of Thorin the dwarf king, etc.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Yes good point. Ofc Gandalf also has many similarities to e.g. Odin (and Tolkien was very familiar with the mythology too). He definitely had multiple inspirations.

@HarryVoyager 4 жыл бұрын

This just struck me, if the staffs are sort of the Istari's symbol of office, I wonder if Gandalf broke his staff as a way to symbolize that he was unable to maintain the guidelines of the Istari and still oppose the Balrog? It's just striking that he does that right before he goes into an all out confrontation with a being of comparable raw power to Sauron himself.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

That's a very nice theory. I like it. How likely it is is hard to say though. I think not getting away was not Gandalf's plan, but maybe he saw it coming. I guess it was his fate. Maybe with this his fate was sealed, who knows.

@shaggycan 4 жыл бұрын

Their staffs seem to be used to focus their power. Not necessary, but as a staff's normal purpose, it helps you do something you can already do. Normally walking, but in this case; magic.

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the late answer. Almost overlooked you comment =/ Yes that's a good point and common use for magic in fantasy (I also like the analogy). In LotR this is possible too, but there are multiple observations of magic without using a staff. E.g. Elrond is not described to have a staff (it's ofc not known how he summons the flood, but a staff would come out of nowhere), neither is Galadriel. In many cases song, the spoken word, command or will is used to "cast" magic and Maiar are often even more powerful than elves. Sauron is known to change is form and use songs to cast his magic. The Istari are the only (or one of the few) magic users, who have staffs at all and as explained, there are many instances where e.g. Gandalf uses magic without a staff.

@ernavill3261 4 жыл бұрын

Perhaps the sticks were used to be trusted by humans; Elves were very familiar with magic after all and would not be surprised by sudden magic. For men, on the other hand, it might help to make it seem as if the staff is the magical presence in the room not the person. I'm not terribly familiar with the books but I remember in the films, when Gandalf walks into Edoras, Grima is furious they didn't take his staff. So if this is the same in the books he clearly believed a wizard's power comes from his staff. By making them think the staff is the source of a wizard's magic, the wizards let men feel in control and less threatened by a wizard's presence (as illustrated by Sam's fear of being turned into a toad after being caught eavesdropping).

@albertlabriola36 5 жыл бұрын

I think they are more like Transitors for the Vala Powers and Authority.

@ThePhilosophersGames 5 жыл бұрын

Yes, you could interpret it like this ^^

@hotmale5221 4 жыл бұрын

You said something to the effect that there were only two elves in Middle-earth that had seen the light of Aman. I assume you meant Galadriel & Glorfindel. I would suggest that they are the only two we know of. What about Gildor Inglorion, that the hobbits met in the Shire? He was of the house of Finarfin (Galadriel's father) & made pilgrimages to the Tower Hills to look in the palantir that was kept there to gaze at Tol Eressea. The fate of Maglor, son of Feanor is not known. After casting the Silmaril in the sea, some tales say he still wanders the coasts of Middle-earth, endlessly singing and lamenting. I would also assume that other Noldor that fled Valinor were still living in Rivendell, Lothlorien, and at the Havens with Cirdan at the end of the Third Age. I doubt that all the Noldor of Celebrimbor in Eregion were completely annihilated. I think you could make a great video about this.....just my humble opinion...but you make really great videos about things like this....

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, you are right. I worded it like this: "She is one of two known elves in Middle-earth in the Third Age, who have seen Aman, the Undying Lands, with their own eyes." We only know about Galadriel and Glorfindel. Gildor could be. I think he was intended once intended to be the son of Finrod. In this case it depends on when he was born. Galadriel's child was born probably early Second Age, so one could argue it could be a similar time for him (but it was changed by Tolkien anyway). The idea, that he want to Elbereth could mean both. That he never has seen Aman and wants to see it or that he misses it. There could be some evidence that he is an Exile, but i would need to look deeper into it. Would be indeed an interesting topic for a video ^^ When it comes to other elves: my argument would be, that they probably left Middle-earth by now. Galadriel also has this exile story (Tolkien changed his mind several times here) going on, which indicates a bit, that an Elf of her age would have left Middle-earth already. In this sense maybe only the "First Age of the Years of the Sun Elves" are left. Still there could be other. E.g. it is indicated, that the White Council maybe had other members. So ofc there could be more Elvish lords of old, but we don't know about them.

@hotmale5221 4 жыл бұрын

Ah. You say twice in your reply that Tolkien changed his mind. I think that's what I love about Tolkien most: his ever-changing mythos & the contradictions he left for us to ponder. Perhaps you're correct & Gildor was once supposed to be the son of Finrod. But what Tolkien left for us was that Finrod never married & that's what he turned Nargathrond over to his brother Orodreth. And since Finrod died to protect Beren in the First Age, he couldn't have possibly fathered a son in the Second Age. And yes, I've always wondered about the White Council members. The movies lead us to believe that it consisted of Saruman, Gandalf, Galadriel & Elrond. But the books include Cirdan & Glorfindel. I've always wondered about Erestor, Radagast, Celeborn, Thranduil & others. I guess I'll always have to wonder...LOL!

@ernavill3261 4 жыл бұрын

@@hotmale5221 well isn't that the sign of a true mythology. It is actually a shame the Tolkien estate guards what is considered canon so closely as it goes completely against the idea of mythology. Mythology are origin stories that change over time and are different for everyone who knows them, people give them their own spin when retelling. People nowadays seem too obsessed with 'the true story' to get the magic of a mythology. It has to be covered in mystery and shrouded in the unknown; after all it's mythology, not history. The two usually overlap but descerning the history from mythology is difficult and usually imprecise. Look, for example, at all the effort historians have gone through to find the real city of Troy.

@baddmatt9588 4 жыл бұрын

The real question is how did Gandalf the Grey get his staff back from Saruman the White after he was imprisoned by him?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

Interestingly in the book Saruman does not take it away from him. At least this is hinted in a vision/dream of Frodo, where he sees him escape. I think the films there are simply multiple staffs. So Gandalf has some spare staffs ^^

@ganeshjain88 4 жыл бұрын

Who was the other elf apart from Galadriel who had seen the Aman and seen the light of the two trees and was still alive in the third age?

@ThePhilosophersGames 4 жыл бұрын

According to the lore Maglor (the last surviving son of Fëanor; foster father of Elrond) is still alive, wandering the shores of Middle-earth in despair and regret after he tossed his Silmaril into the ocean. PS: I'm doing desearch for a video right now and your comment came back to my mind. I totally forgot another very important Elf Lord: Glorfindel. he was born in Aman and is present during the Third Age (probably even during half of the Second Age). So there are three Elves. He actually might be the other Elf I meant in the staff video ^^ In addition I found this quote: "And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas." - The Lord of the Rings, Many Meetings This hints at more unnamed Elf-lords from Aman

@ganeshjain88 4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePhilosophersGames thanks for your answer 👍

@Lengsel7 3 жыл бұрын

2:37 Sounded like it was going to... "...It's interesting that he goes to Galadriel, because she is one of the two known elves in Middle-earth in the Third Age who have seen a man naked..."

@ThePhilosophersGames 3 жыл бұрын

lol