They were also good a Guile. To keep a force size secret they would cloak and decloak vessels on the enemy border. Thus making it a bitch to count how many ships. Also there Raiding tactics are fairly standardized. one ship decloaks and engages drawing the escort vessel away. another then decloaks while the first attacker draws the escort away.

Get in there, stretch your legs a bit and use your blade. Totally unnecessary unless you want to get into sto-vo-kor I guess

where did the powers that be get the idea from do you think

@@mrbojangles8133 sorry I didn't understand the question could you resend

@@shanenolan8252 they’re saying that was an explicit inspiration for the production team. They’ve talked a fair bit about taking ideas from Vikings and Samurai to make the Klingons.

@@kaitlyn__L oh yes the production team did say that I believe they won an Emmy for the Klingon design , I was talking more about the culture house or clans and the honor system , but some people have compared them the Soviet Russia and the cold war ( undiscovered country)

@@shanenolan8252 yeah, the Soviet comparison was more about the TOS era, and it was TNG Klingons who had the Viking Samurai stuff going on. Of course TUC was made after some of these TNG episodes but they also didn’t give the Romulans a bumpy forehead in that film either, so I’m more than happy to just think of it as finishing off the TOS versions of the states

Ah FASA canon, a man of culture I see.

@@sid2112 Between the Old FASA lore and the New Lore, I'm never wanting for more material as a Trek fan. It's hard not to like the FASA lore given the effort and detail put into it's depictions of the intrigue, doctrine, pitfalls and political maneuvering that goes into a starship's creation. This is doubly so for Klingons given the nature of the relationship between the Empire and the Houses.

Why does everyone forget Worf was a champion in close combat. A TNG episode included Worf winning a trophy for crying out loud.

@@mikewaterfield3599 Evidently Gowron was Worf's equal. If you watch the fight, Gowron comes very close to winning.

@@maisiesummers42 Gowron also defeated the clone of Khaless

@@seskal8595 In fairness that clone had been kept in a tank and fed false memories... it didn't know how to fight.

Yes. I love how little anyone seemed to care that the head of a foreign government was killed on a Starfleet base by a Starfleet officer who then hand picked the most pro-Federation Klingon we’ve ever met across the franchise to succeed him. At that point the once-dangerous Klingon Empire had been well and truly tamed.

The greatest honor is the glory of victory. But in a more traditional view even using a cloak for a sneak attack is dishonorable. Perfect sneaky romulan weapon. Klingon ships should have no close, the strongest weapons and moderate shields with a great self destruct system in case of defeat. For the empire!

Hyenas? Dishonorable? A friend of mine would like his teeth to have a word with your bones :)

I disagree.I believe that due to corruption that was plaguing the empire the rebirth of Kahless was an attempt to slow or reverse the tide.I would put that corruption at the feet of house Duras adopting Romulan like ways in an effort to seek power.With all the different players tying to get to the top,no matter what their goal for the empire was they broke tradition fearing and knowing the other side would abandon such traditions as well.With a continued break down of leadership across the empire you hear them talk of honor but their view of honor is tainted.Mostly it has reduced itself to personal combat and even there it get shaky and i would put that again towards lack of leadership and outside influences.

@@darknightbegins85 HIvmeH Duj So'lu' 'ach quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh. (A ship cloaks in order to attack, however the Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor.) In what way is a the use of a cloaking device dishonorable? Is a scouting mission dishonourable? Is stalking ones prey dishonorable? Must a guard at the gate be clearly seen by the trespasser? There are ideals, and then then there is just being foolish. 'ej qoH vuvbe' SuS. (and the wind does not respect a fool).

The problem is Klingons simply have a different definition of honor than humans do. It's why Worf is such a shit Klingon. He learned his concept of honor from his adoptive human parents and it just doesn't jive with the Empire.

An interesting analysis. It’d only take their opponents having a reliable way to see them cloaked from far enough off, and maintain operational secrecy about that long enough, to take them out, assuming they had the forces.

Yeah, they even love to engage in glorious melee combat, unlike that pesky Tau.

Since if I remember right the Hur'q took the iron age klingon culture and tried to turn it into their own private slave army before they were eradicated by the klingons, they might very well have been the klingon gods that were killed. It certainly seems like that is where the klingons got their space faring technology as well.

It wasn’t Kahless who killed the gods, it was the first Klingon (their version of our Adam). That Voyager episode gave him a name, Kor’Tar or something. Additionally, Kahless’ unification came a few centuries before the Hur’q invasion. He would’ve been long-dead before any Klingons saw any spaceships. No, I’m afraid I’m in the camp that thinks the Hur’q were simply the Klingons’ original source of warp drive tech. However, it would be really nice and tied-together if Kahless was the one who killed the gods, and if they really were the Hur’q. Even moreso if the Klingons had been genetically engineered by the Hur’q instead of merely invaded by them. So I gave your comment a like anyway because it is very poetic. (Just not borne out by the various dates we’re given.)

@@kaitlyn__L ...I appreciate how incredibly nerdy this is :D

@@notoriouswhitemoth Thanks! I often put these shows on as background noise while I do other things; seems a lot of this stuff has filtered into my memory, hah. I rarely bother to look up stuff on Memory Alpha; when I do it’s stuff like wanting confirmation when I recognise an actor (such as Odo’s dad also being Future Alexander). Honestly I find that Voyager episode somewhat unsatisfying - why does he drive the Barge of the Dead as eternal punishment if the killing of the gods was previously presented as universally good? It never sounded like the Klingon gods had any say in which afterlife you went into, because they were already dead. But that’s how Ron D Moore chose to flesh out the mythology, and since he’d already made like 95% of it anyway I guess it was his right.

@@kaitlyn__L is correct about her lore. It was Kortar and his mate, the first Klingons (whose story is told in the wedding ceremony) who destroyed their creators, proving they were the strongest force in the universe. They did not do so out of malice, but because they were Klingons, and it was their nature. Modern Klingons often say their ancestors slew their gods "because they were too much trouble." @Rembanspellsong may not be wrong that the myth may have arisen from the Hurq invasion, but the two events would be separated by thousands of years, and the Hurq Invasion does seem to have occurred after the time of Kahless. Just to put that in perspective, that would be like the story of the flood in Genesis (in the Bible, not the terraforming device) being inspired by events that occurred after the Crucifixion. Possible, but ... maybe more trouble than it's worth to conceptualize. Another theory I personally hold is that the "gods" were actually the ancient humanoids, the so-called Progenitors, that were revealed in TNG "The Chase," who may or may not have been the same entities as "The Preservers." Again, it's just a theory ... a LORE theory .. - er, sorry. Wrong channel.

I was honestly surprised that he didn't reference Klingon Academy in this video. I find it to be a definitive treatise on Klingon tactics especially considering that it was taught be General Chang.

It's not easy to find copies anymore of it and even digging up the cutscenes can be tricky sometimes. And just the cutscenes don't awlays tell the whole story - presuming one can dig up the game, make it work, etc might take too long to do a playthrough. But yes, I consider that game a showcase of Klingon tactics and showcases how well they play back and forth. Turning Starfleet's strengths against them and blitzing through the Core.

@@Arrow32172 Yeah but Chang was a bit of a Terranophile, doubt many other Klingons studied Terrans as much as Chang did.

Ezri’s little speech to Worf is always one of my favourite things.

I believe that line comes from the TNG episode with the cloned Kahless. Worf is describing why Boreth was founded.

@@kaitlyn__L Ya, that's what I was thinking of, just couldn't remember which series it was in.

Ooh!

Cowards eh

@@jamp12008 only cowardly if the ship has no offensive weaponry, taking an enemy unawares is a strategic victory.

ThAnks. I’m ultimately not worried about the stats in the end it’s just.. yet another way youtube doesn’t care .. not that I would expect them too

if I remember right, the Hur'q wanted an easily conquered primitive but highly violent race to use as disposable shock troops, and they choose the klingons who at that time were in the iron age and extremely violent. the Hur'q attempted to mold the klingons into the force they wanted, but in return their presence in the alpha quadrant was annihilated by the very troops it was trying to create. It is very hard to kill something that has basically a back up for every major system and most organs in the body.

@@Rembanspellsong I guess that works, but why keep Kahless’s sword? Maybe it helped them keep control over the Klingons for a time, but surely it was no use to them afterward.

@@aperson22222 they may have taken it to control them originally, but then when they were losing they might of decided to take it to spite them. kind of a 'you may kill us, but you lose this treasure forever' kind of thinking.

If you look at many of the large scale battles we see them in, it would be madness not to have weapons aft. Once the two fleets get in amongst each other, some of the enemy _will_ see your back no matter what you do. You don’t need to be a coward for a squadron of Jem’Hadar fighters to maneuver around and wind up on your tail, and I can’t imagine their honor code demands they just let those fighters kill them.

To Klingon method of promotion does not always ensure that the most qualified Klingon is promoted

@@jamesricker3997 Unless it is Worf doing the Promoting 😁

Only excuse I can provide (besides not wanting to spend sfx time & money on that) is that it was commented on how Odo is comparatively "stunted" in his abilities to shift form like you're describing, at least until the Female Founder gets all "liquid form" with him and shows him some stuff. Even Laas made his arm into a metallic death-spike. Along your point, you'd think a Founder morphing into a death blob would run the Klingons off, or at least kill them faster. STO has some hilarious animations for Founders when you fight them in melee or with weapons.

Odo using a neck pinch in “Paradise Lost” is another one. Besides budget.... why? Ooh, and, in Dramatis Personae, he just grabs onto a cargo container with his hands instead of morphing to hold everyone securely.

@@kaitlyn__L In “Paradise Lost” it just might have been a subtle rebuke of the hysteria that the Founders had caused. You people hate and fear shapeshifters? Fine, I won’t shapeshift, since it makes you so uncomfortable. I will however very casually demonstrate how many other ways there are to undermine your illusions of security without shapeshifting. Maybe there are other people you should be distrusting? “Dramatis Personae” I had completely forgotten about. If he wanted to avoid going out the airlock he should have turned into something sticky. Or he could have just gone out the airlock; we know vacuum exposure isn’t that big a deal for him. But he should have done something to keep the others from going out. Maybe turned himself into an object that would jam itself against the open airlock, leaving gaps large enough for the bad juju to get sucked out but too small for adult humanoids. (The physics of that would have been shaky, but I think most people would have willingly suspended disbelief under the circumstances.)

@@aperson22222 that’s a fair enough interpretation of the former, although of course it was scripted for Odo to shapeshift in that scene, so if they hadn’t made the season opener a big Klingon fight instead, we’d have seen that rather than just a neck pinch.

Odo is playing it smart if he acted too effective in hand to hand combat they'd just shoot him with their disruptors, Klingons are only foolhardy to a point.

when you can generally beam troops to where you need them, moving them around in armored transports seems needlessly dangerous since it exposes them to being bombarded from orbit while being bunched together in a relatively slow moving transport. They touch on the problem with that in one of the episodes of DS9 where the klingons are using transporter scramblers, forcing the federation to use 'hoppers' which get blown up quite regularly from what is said.

Glory and gets us to stovakor and honor gives your house glory and maybe a seat on the council

@@cedrictaylor08 whatever makes one feel good

Which source did you see that?

@@LoreReloaded it was physical media a weekly series of files called the star trek fact files during the run of deep space 9 , it covered everything from tos , tng , ds9 and Voyager and the movies it took years a friend of mine had them all , this is in Europe I assume it was licensed from paramount by a publisher but it was formatted exactly like the lcars computer screen data and it was a collectable item . They also had thing like federation military doctrine and other races and information about federation ship yards and economic military industrial policy , I think the design team staff wrote it like the production design and star ship designers ,

It could be the term for calvary was lost for the centuries. Technically, tanks in NATO armies are classified as Armored Calvary, but Former Warsaw Pact Member as well as books/movies use the term Tank Companys/Battalion, etc. So, it's possible

@@alexandercaires5921 but even so, the term isn't what's important. The tactic, a cavalry charge, was unfamiliar to Martok. Even though they use those kinds of tactics. I just found it interesting.

Playing Star Wars RPG table top WotC 3.5e system, PC rebels vs PC imperials battle in an unknown region, in the middle of battle the GM/ game master " DM/ story teller " plays the Klingon theme soundtrack and two dozen Klingon style warship decloak. Everyone at the table nearly lost their zhit. Spaceport ghost stories the shippers were talking about a new raider fleet of Y-shape ships leaving no survivors, so half the Rebel fleet made double effort to get away from the star destroyer indicator to jump into hyper space. Three D7 fired off three heavy concussion missiles each and their disrupters/ heavy twin turret blaster cannons. The dice dmg rolls didn't favor the imperials, the star destroyer was dusted in a single 6second action round of play. The third group of players PCing the Klingon fleet of three D7 and a dozen brel class wipe out everyone that didn't run from the fight. The D7 with the heavy blaster cannon orbital gun didn't even get the chance to fire once. All cripple ships were then boarded and got bat'leth ...

Yeah, I think that's what we call plot firepower....

I was under the impression they made that model for the DS9 s4 opener. Maybe I’ll have to go look over it again and see.

Dont anylize STD. More you diging more crap see the sunlight

Don’t bother. Std is not canon to TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT anyway so just ignore it.

They’re there to fight, not there to win, which is why they use impractical bladed weapons and armor that can’t stop someone from punching them out

Unless you are cardassian 😅

@@paul-demetriusgagnon4762 considering the tech level difference, the cardassians did very well

They haven't mastered it yet They tend to be reactionary and have a tendency to disobey orders.

Swarming and overwhelming only works when you’ve got numbers on your side, and the Klingons stop being one of the Quadrant’s largest powers very early in the chronology. You’d think they would have had to adapt.

@@aperson22222 They seem to have that advantage any time they put themselves up against the Federation. (Discovery Season 1 War, Yesterday's Enterprise, DS9 Dominion Cold War) The Dominion only seems to meet or exceed that. Speaking of which, think about the USS Prometheus. You have a single ship that splits in 3 to counter Dominion swarm tactics, but why do that when you could just send in 3 K'tingas?

@@joshualau4070 “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is an alternate timeline. And even then, the Klingons only went into that battle up 3-2, though it might as well have been 3-1 since the other Starfleet ship would have been pretty toothless even if it hadn’t been trying to get sucked into an anomaly (which the Klingons had no way of knowing). According to Picard’s pep talk, the Ent-D could have sent all three Klingons packing if it hadn’t had to protect the Ent-C. In DS9 you got a similar thing on a much larger scale. Starfleet was pulling its punches because they knew that a total war would make both nations easy pickings for the Jem’Hadar. In DSC you’re right, but the Federation was much smaller then. (At least on balance; you could find plenty of stray statements that would seem to contradict that scattered here and there across the franchise.) By the 24th century the Feds had expanded rapidly while the Klingons stood still, so that they seem to have roughly three or four times as many Class M planets to draw on as the Empire. Yes, the Feds devote a far smaller fraction of production to defense than the Klingons do, but only when there are no existential threats on the horizon. If the Klingons’ early victories in the 2370s had been as decisive as those in the 2250s, they would have found their initial numbers advantage negated long before they could threaten core Fed planets. The _Prometheus_ is stupid as hell, which I have to think is why it was never actually deployed. It’s possible Starfleet was more comfortable knowing it could do everything on its own and didn’t want to _have_ to rely on the Klingons (remember, Gowron-who was only mildly friendly to the Federation at the best of times-held back support for Operation Return till the last possible second) but even then a squadron of Defiants could do everything the _Prometheus_ could.

@@aperson22222 Yeah the Federation seems to favour their ships being able to engage multiple targets at once where as Klingon ships tend to favour delivering maximum firepower to a single target.

As Kolos noted in ENT, Klingon society has not always been as much focused on the ideal of being warriors, and second, even in the 24th century, not all Klingons are full-time warriors. They always had and still have their own engineers and scientists, like Kurak, a warp field specialist seen in TNG. Furthermore, as indicated in the video, it is entirely possible that the basis of their technical development could be traced back to technology left behind by the Hurq.

@@Strash1892 This seems like hey stretch of rationalization

There's also the argument that war can be a driving force for technological innovation. If that's something a warrior culture believes, then the sciences become a tool in their arsenal and a worthy pursuit in their own right. I don't think the Klingons have ever been written with that idea in mind, but it could be an interesting take on the inner workings of their society.

@@d.b.4671 now your making sense

Yea that wa sa bit..convenient.

They were out of UT minutes on the subspace service provider package.

The ship's computer is programmed to have a flair for the dramatic.

And anyway one copuld imagine that particular phrase would be widely familiar in the original, just out of being so culturally prominent and frequently invoked.

Discovery is written by moronic plagiarists.

@@DASRH Amen! 👍

Because the tactics mean jack with out it alas

@@LoreReloaded not entirely true. Tactics are, in absurd simplicity, the method of fighting a battle and they are pretty much universal, regardless of cultural or political background. It can be readily discovered here on Earth. During the era when swords and spears were the main weapons, tactics involved maneuvering large, dense blocks of soldiers into position and basically pushing the enemy away. Early gunpowder weapons shifted tactical doctrines towards long, thin lines of men to maximize firepower. More modern tactics involve smaller, more dispersed units to maximize survivability against machine guns and artillery rounds. What can be determined through cultural and political exploration is the strategy which may be employed by a particular group. A Roman would not prosecute a war in the same way as his Chinese counterpart. Similarly, while the Klingons and the Federation would mostly utilize similar tactics due to similar offensive and defensive technologies, the main difference would be strategic.

Klingon strategy would involve lightning raids on targets behind the lines with Birds of Prey, searching for weaknesses to be exploited, while the larger cruisers were held in reserve until a decisive battle could be brought. Klingon culture indicates a predisposition towards all in efforts. Once Klingon raids uncover a weakness, the Klingon Empire will divert ALL of its available strength to that weakness and they will push until they break through. This can be readily exploited by feigning weaknesses at points in the line so that you can isolate and destroy large Klingon fleets. Alternatively, you could feign weak points specifically to draw Klingon forces away from areas that YOU want to attack, allowing you to strike the Klingons while the bulk of their forces are engaged. In contrast, the Romulans are a more reserved enemy. They will engage in lightning raids behind the lines but will do so while attempting to pin the blame on a different group. In doing so they would hope to dilute your strength in the region they are interested in, giving them the opportunity for a smash and grab type offensive while you are distracted with their patsy. The Romulans never show their full hand and never go all in. They are patient, willing to play the long game. Even if it takes a dozen lifetimes to achieve their ends, they will pursue it with proper patience and persistence. And if the plan somehow goes awry, they will simply disavow whoever is caught and weather the storm until a fresh opportunity arises. As another point of contrast, the Cardassians are culturally inclined to strategic games. Nothing is ever what it seems with a Cardassian. If they show weakness, that is their strongest point but it could just as easily be their weakest and they let you see it because they want you to believe it is stronger than it really is. Likewise, if you see strength, that is weakness but could also be strength that you are allowed to see in hopes that you believe the position is weaker than it actually is. For a Cardassian, trickery and subterfuge are second nature. For a Cardassian, the Maskirovka is a way of life. As you can see, the strategy of these three powers are culturally distinct. The aggressive Klingons will test the waters initially, seeking a point of advantage before putting all effort into a single, killer blow. The calculating Romulans will duck and weave, serving small cuts from unexpected directions until you collapse from bloodloss, the victim of a thousand tiny nicks. And the tricky Cardassians will never be telling you the whole truth. Everything you see, hear, feel, smell, and taste from them will be a kernel of truth inside of an omission wrapped in a lie topped with a half-truth.

They are real Trek and canon alas

@@LoreReloaded you dishonor the very name of Star Trek.

Won’t be the first time x.x

Man, if you have such a negative opinion of me - why not just stop watching? That said, I like Venom Geek Media and would suggest anyone watch it. As someone who apparently 'knows me' - you should look at my back catalogue as i pain stakingly break down each individual ship of the empire. It's not the comment I dislike, it's the ignorance behind it.. and a bit of its sass.

@@LoreReloaded Some people have nothing better to do apparenty.

It could be that the KDF is a joint force that owes its allegiance to the chancellor, not the houses. Add in the idea it can only be called into service by vote of the high council to protect the overall empire, it makes sense. (Imo)

Nothing in this statement is wrong

Plant-Based Space Boyz

It can't be dangerous if it doesn't look aggressive