No problem 👍

Chain drive will always have a place because of cost. These pinion gears will never sell volumes like chain drive.

@@2WheelsGood.01 true, in my humble opinion they are aiming at the high price segment. Cost of ownership + time invested maintaining the system over lifetime should definetly be considered when purchasing an expensive bike and many will do so.

Chain drives will also win on efficiency

@@mcoadynh not on mtb with stupid 1x in 34-50 combo with a dirty chain. Not efficient at all.

Unfortunately don't have time for that! But they'll be some more shots of the gear actuator in the next video or so. This was straight off the camera in airport WiFi

You think? This design is a joke. The fake engineering channel for wokesters.

There are two gear selection, one from the cranks to the intermediate shaft with 4 ratio dealing with legs torque, and the other from intermediate to output with 3 ratios, dealing with legs troque +motor. I suspect these shift to take more time as there is more torque to deal with.

Great question. I tried it. Shifting was very smooth, and silent BUT not instantaneous. Engineer confirmed they time it for low torque event (crank at 0, 180 deg) to help achieve smooth shifting. Still, it felt very fast apart from at low cadence when this becomes more obvious. The inward pulling pawls on the cam help this, unlike the outward engaging pawls on something like the effigear.

@@PeakTorque previous generations required that you consciously stopped your pedaling to shift, even though it only shifts at 12 and 6 o'clock, do you have to slow your pedalstroke or is it unnoticeable?

@@dvoob unnoticeable. I was banging through the gears like Colin McRae. However, it was a flat tarmac test ground, so not much torque. Should have tried it with the brakes on and some load. However, the motor assist in the top mode 'FLY' felt jerky. Not very smooth, quite on/off.

It makes these crappy 1x systems that we're all getting forced to adopt look a big pile of expensive sh1t i agree.

@@PeakTorque I know a bunch of people with newly bought gravel bikes where I live ... the people with stock 1x setups almost never ride them. Either they struggle to keep pace on the flat, don't have low enough gears for off road walls, or get sick of huge cadence jumps if there's a true wide range setup. The sensible bought or changed to 2x and ride their bikes. I hate the gearing on my 1x XC / DC bike, but we're not being given a choice. I'd much prefer 2x.

@@pmcmpc I will be going 2x on my gravel bike for this reason!

@@PeakTorque FYI, Shimano GRX 11s 2x will work with a 50-34 (using road FD) and 11/40, 11/42, or even in extremis an 11-46 (with a goat link) ... it works miles beyond the Shimano spec - albeit you lose 1 sprocket in each ring (big/big & small/small won't work). Very useful because Shimano 48/31 grx chainset has non-existent / dog shit power meter options.

Its an off the shelf in runner. Looks closely at the windings and you can probably identify it and answer those questions!

@@PeakTorque I looked at the images on my monitor. It looks like its a Brushless DC Motor. The concentrated winding leads me to believe its a brushless dc motor with trapezoidal back EMF. Control method is likely a 6 step commutation. What is interesting is when you compare Pinion to BOSCH. The BOSCH ebike motor is wound to produce a sinusoidal back EMF. This enables BOSCH to use a much more advanced motor control technique. They appear to use Field Oriented Control which squeezes every bit of performance out of the motor.

no, the electric motor power arrives at the intermediate shaft. Theres 3 different ratio between it and the whell.

Not as "heavy" as you but a few years experience now with Harmonic drives. 160:1 ratio and zero backlash is pretty fun. Turn a small DC motor into a lifting beast in a single stage. Whoever invented the harmonic drive is a mad/crazy legend. For anyone who cares, it's an egg shaped bearing forced to rotate in a flexible steel cup!

@@PeakTorqueYes I used to do maintenance on the wave generator. The grease we used for that application was £1,000 for a pot of about 500ml if I remember correctly. 😅 Like you I have great admiration for the designer of that gearbox.

harmonic drive is used on tq motor i think

@@godtux It is indeed!

Absolutely. But, it probably isn't 'enabled' as such. Not sure.

@@PeakTorque It would be great to have the power meter readings available for head units, since pinion gear boxes need pinion cranks. Otherwise only power meter pedals can be used or a power meter at the hub. I hope they do open the data feed.

If it’s anything like the normal Pinion gearbox, you certainly could.

Apparently there’s approximately 1,000 gear changes available once the battery has gone down.

Internal gearbox, ebike motor and gear box all in one

Correct ☝️. This is a motor and 12 gears combined. In not much bigger package than just a motor unit.

I'm aware of that. However I was not aware that integrating the gearbox in the motor casing would bring such a negligible packaging penalty

If you were being very critical you may say that the latest Shimano packaging is internally quite spacious! Edit: from what I've seen Shimano use a smaller in-runner DC motor than this, so need a bigger speed reduction, which has its benefits but takes up some space. I can feel this as a slippery slope of analysing ebike systems. Not my cup of tea but similar to my 'work'.

Hardly revolutionary, you'd see highschool robotics teams run something similar to this, but it is pretty cool to see on a bike.

'high school robotics'? You mean with 3d printer, hot glue and an Arduino? Jeez

@@HoshinoMirai Lmao 🤦🏻‍♂️

I thought the same thing. The gears appear to be over kill for the power applied. However what’s not known is the quality of the steel and are they planning to upgrade with a more powerful motor in the future.

@@keithnewton1966it’s pretty much the same gearbox that Pinion use in their non motored gearbox.

Good point. Elf and sayfty m8. I once went to a Chinese engineering trade fair where they had laser etching machines running unguarded In their booths!

@@PeakTorque wild stuff ... usually german diarrhea shits their pants on savety, usually where it doesn't matter, while other stuff remains dangerous

@@PeakTorqueIt’s common in Asia, especially in Japan. I have seen factories where robots are working next to humans without any cell walls. (Unlike in Europe) simply because if you tell a Japanese guy not to cross a yellow and black tape on the floor he won’t… in the UK if you ask someone not to do something they say “what like this?” And do it anyway. 😅

@@PeakTorque That same display stand in NYC you'd have people lining up with their attorney on the phone demanding their liability check.

Reading this 8 month after the show, I still remember cutting my index finger on the razor sharp cut out st the side when „feeling it out“. I didn’t realize it till I wondered where all the red juice suddenly came from🫣😝

Mech probably higher peak efficiency (if clean and new chain). But this is just impressive.

@@PeakTorque likely the future. Been on mechs what 55 odd years. Maybe 65 odd years

If you really hate doing maintenance, this + belt drive would be a godsend. Could be a valuable thing for the casuals

@@invisiblescout6335and commuting bikes where users may not be enthusiasts and dependability and long term reliability are of paramount importance.

​@@invisiblescout6335 I think that an XC hardtail with a non ebike version of this + a simple to service fork may be the endgame of n+1. Although I think for me to make the switch I'd want a system that shifts under load and has a built in dynamo that charges the batteries required to shift. Big ask, but in a perfect world both things are attainable. WIth a continuous dynamo the battery could also be much lighter which is a plus.

They said they are coming out with an electronic shifting unit without a motor. But there is still efficiency loss and higher weight so you probably won't see it used for racing. For touring and bikepacking it would be great.

They make the P and C series already. Typically have gates carbon drive. But not sealed.

Stop clouding the issue up with facts!lol!

Because Nuvinci is 5 to 10% less efficient and weighs lot more.

Its the way the industry is going

New bicycles are now more expensive than new motorcycles.

@@PeakTorque It is true....i'm even seeing motorcyles...I mean bicyles....on the paths now. Nothing better than getting clipped by a person doing 25MPH during a run because they thought shouting "on your left" with ~1 second to spare was good enough.

Pinion have been used in quite a few mountain bikes. A friend of mine has one. There’s no lack of engagement problems. When used with the motor combined it removes the fragile derailleur and drastically increases the life of the drivetrain. Plus you can use a belt drive if you want.

@@streddaz There absolutely is a huge engagement problem. Anyone saying otherwise I question if you've every actually seen one. I call bullshit.

@@cjohnson3836 well I beg to differ as I’ve ridden my friends Zerode with a Pinion gearbox and the engagement is no worse than any standard 18 tooth free hub.

@@streddaz I don't give a fuck what you beg. Geometry is objectively measurable and pinion engagement angle is significantly higher than derailleur options. Not sure why you think comparing it to the lowest quality tooth count is actually stating highly of the product. But hey, when you can break the physical laws of reality, come back and I might give a shit. Until then, you're simply wrong.

@@cjohnson3836 here a proper review of the new Pinion MGU, no mention of this terrible engagement problem. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zs9ldNZ239m0Zo0.html