"FFFUUUUU-AHHHHhhhhh!" Nice save, Ian.

Man, the sound of those .308 rounds smacking the plates is really satisfying.

Man Amongst Men shirt, a Rhodesian chest rig, cookie dough pants. Ian is the real vintage operator.

That was a great question there at the beginning of the conclusion. "Aaughau, uagh?"

This is the kind of match I'd like to be a part of. Weapons in their military configuration rather than skeletonized ARs, and not dressing like a nascar driver.

Ian, when I first joined a foreign army a very long time ago, we had SLR's (Brit FALs). We were very thoroughly drilled to only put 18 rounds in the magazines, so that irritation that just happened to you didn't happen to us. Following your phraseology, down-loading magazines was very much "an SLR "thing".

AK74 is best AK. =)

I can't ever remember running into the feed issue. The only time i had hassels with an FN FAL was a very worn one at a fun shoot in the SADF commando's. This was one of the original FN's from the '60's, it's reciever was still one of the brown painted one's with the south african coat of arms stamped on it.

It seems like 50% of the time Ian does that weird lefty thing to clear a malfunction where he cycles the bolt with the gun and ejection port facing upward it doesn't work at all. Maybe tilt it so gravity helps dump out the round? You already know you have a malfunction, and having the ability to see the second malfunction that happens because the round couldn't drop out of the gun doesn't help any. Also, none of these example runs are really "Gun A vs. Gun B" because Karl is a more experienced competitive shooter and he almost always wins regardless of what he's shooting. Karl simply moves faster.

FINALLY! Thank you Karl, for coming into the light regarding the G3!

Roadrunner in the background @ 10:15

FAL vs. AK 74: Conclusion = G3 ;-p

FAL 4 MOA? Having the rear sight on a different "assembly" from the front sight didn't help. However, I learned a thing or two about the L1A1 variant in my younger days. One of these was that "barrel spec" changed over the years. small changes w=ere periodically made to teh chamber, throat, rifling lead-in and nominal bore and groove dimensions and tolerances, as well as rifling land flank anges, etc. tyh elatter as the barrels went from plain stell, to chromed chambers and leades, to bully-chromed interiors. Triggers? usually rather "agricultura"l, BUT, carefully dressed engagement surfaces Use a jig that holds the component AND which guides the diamond lapping stick or fancy Arkansas stone. The principles that work for 1911 trigger tuning are applicable. NEVER decrease the area of the engagement surfaces and NEVER alter thje anlgles, either Body locking / lockup: The components that lock the "lower" fire control group to the upper are rone to wear over time. When that plunger wars, it allows flexong and vertical play. If the plunger spring is "tired", the system WILL flex excessively. FALs and early L1A1s had a lever that was down low on the left rear of the FCG. Later L1A1 type is near vertical just behind the ""shield" through which the carrier extension "rat-tail" contacts the return springs.. This lever is a good indicator of the state of he body locking components. If it is touching the rear face of the aforementioned "plate", things are worn and maintenance is required, The spring inside that drives the body locking catch is also subject to deterioration and failure.. When in doubt, swap it out!. Hinge pin assembly. Same again, wear om the OUTER hinge pin will induce flexing in the critical hinge between body and FCG. Loose hand-guards? Loose flash hider? The old M-14 trick of taper-reaming the flash hider out perfectly coaxial to the bore and then securing it correctly to the barrel works wonders in many cases. Headspace? Military of custom barrel? The proper tools, machinery and gauges to deal with re-head-spacing will cost you more than several times the proce of your rifle. Rear-sight wobbly? Swap it out for a new one. Like may military arms, any tinkering that cannot be done with the issued multi-tool is a WORKSHOP job. Unless you really know your rifle and have the special tools and gauges, leave it to a competent, FAL / :L1A1-savvy gun plumber who SHOULD have the proper manuals AND appropriate jigs and specialist tools. Finally, AKs are not "shake and bake", either. Lots of "olde worlde" skills required to "do it right". The list of tools and gauges for the Finnish RK series is very long and detailed, and, from what I have gleaned from copies of original Soviet technical manuals, there is a LOT going on in field workshops, supporting the frontline Ivans. Back when this part of the world still had a sense of humour, private shooters tried to turn L1A1s into "tace-guns". It was remarkable the difference to be achieved by a carefully-machined, Schultz and Larsen or McMillan barrel and careful attention to my previous points, would make to an otherwise "average", service-grade L1A1. Mine would hold about 1.5 MOA out to 600 metres, (off a rest, and with good ammo and a really good operator).

I agree about the fact that a forward assist would have been a great feature for the FAL to have, with my SA58 ive had a few incidences where the bolt didnt go fully into battery and a forward assist would have made remedying the issue much easier. Thats the only real issue I have with the FAL, it is still easily my favorite classic battle rifle.

Love the gun knowledge and experience between you two. Both of you compliment eachother very well, unlike IV888 where its annoying watching Chad always try to one up Eric by just regurgitating what Eric just said but just with an "actually" and add +- 1 to the statistic or topic being discussed.

I think Karl needs a challenge. lol Can you guys do a G3 (Ian) vs FAL(Karl) in the 2G-ACM series?

K-31 mud test would be rad. A well built rifle that never saw action.

I built a FAL on a DSA receiver and parts aside from the lower housing, top cover and flash hider. It tends FTF on the first round in a full mag as well when using the bolt release. If I pull the charging handle all the way back I don't get the malfunction.

I would love to see how the STGW 57 stacks up against the FAL.

Just get stronger and more right handed bro..

Make a two gun match video of ar15 vs ak74! I love these videos keep it up!

My L1A1 has a custom stock, modified FCG, trigger shoe, DSA railed cover, DSA 4 rail forearm, FAL Style Bipod, L2A2 S.U.I.T Trilux with rail adapter, and 20 rd (inch and metric mags) as well as a 50 rd Xproducts Drum Mag.

On the G3 we had the problem that the magazine springs where a little to stiff, making problems with fully loaded magazines. We fixed it by dismanteling the magazines and uncompressed and compressed the spring a couple of times to wear the tension down alittle. could even manage to put a extra round in some of the mags by doing that.

Ian was about to yell "FUUUUUCK" at the end there, but he kept it PG... It came out as 'FUUUUUarghhhh"

Two fav guys, two fav guns

I know no one will get back to me on this, but considering the FAL was originally to be chambered in an intermediate cartridge i wonder if it would still be relevant and potentially in use today, in a heavily modernized format, and how it would stack up to other service rifles if today.

I have all 3 systems, the AK, G3, and FAL. All good. The FAL if I was to shoot a match. I would train on it more. A rifle is only as good as it's operator. Like a soldier. Soldiers are trained specifically on their own issued rifle. We as shooters who own multiple systems tend to forget our manual of arms for each weapon systems. The FAL is one of those systems that I occasionally forget during matches that I have to retrain myself to it many times.

Dem web gear! So nice. Ian's hair as nice as ever!

Ian the falcon arms Trigger Pull Reduction springs and a set of mil surp fire control parts will improve your trigger situation markedly.

nyet- rifles are fine

The DSA top cover and DSA target trigger make a lot of difference. I have a DSA rifle with the 21" barrel and a 1-4x Nikon. My buddy runs a DSA 16" carbine with a fluted barrel, short gas system, and a mk4 1-4x scope, and I like it as well as the scar 17s I've shot. In all fairness, he has nearly as much invested in his DSA as a SCAR costs, though.

Has Ian figured out the feeding issue yet?

I can't help but feel that Karl is not to happy with the FAL :P

I used an FN C1 at the beginning of my career in the CAF in 1986. Never had an issue with 20 round mags. I honestly think you have bad mags. Sorry. I would recommend that you get a C1 pattern FAL. (or FN as we call it up North). You can even load 5 round clips. But to each his own. Cheers

I like the sa58 para carbine's form factor and ergonomics, but I think the magazine design prevents it from feeding reliably. Compare the design of the FAL and the SCAR H (17s) magazines. The fal mag's lips create more friction on the case as it enters the chamber. I also find the FAL carbine more pleasant and accurate to shoot with irons than an Ak in 7.62x39.

19 rounds in SLR L1A1 was doctrine in British army. Ostensibly to save the mag springs. But who ever believes what the sergeant tells you? Our 7.62 Bren mags (28 rnds) and SLR mags worked in both weapons. Might try your Bren mag for that competition Ian.

Ian shooting the most right hand biased rifle as a leftie.

I have a DSA SA58 and a Para-Congo and can't recall a magazine feed issue with either rifle, whether inserted with a closed bolt and then charged or inserted with the bolt open and then released. I have at least three different types of steal magazines and one aluminum type.

G3 vs FAL.

Karl, have you tried lubricating the cocking tube assembly of your G3 with axel grease? It makes running the bolt way easier. You could do the same to the bolt carrier but I'd stick to lighter oils on the bolt head and locking piece.

I always thought an updated FAL with an optics rail and something like the Millett DMR 1-4x would be a good combo. A 1.5-5x straight scope would be good too (I have one on a Savage 99 in 308). Doesn't the StG58 that Karl always refers to have a heavier barrel, for SAW use? Thought i heard previous mention of that. Great videos. Love them

@ karl or @ ian at 10:25 to 10:45 under the tress at the back of you are they roadrunners birds ???? love these videos great work keep them coming guys

i have many hour's with the norwegian ag3. i got to say: i like it more than the hk416. its easy to fix if it misfires because it have a thumb groove on the ejector.

+InRangeTV Ian could get himself an israeli charging handle and either do a simple mod to his bolt carrier or get an israeli one. He would then have a forward assist. I'm sure he's aware of that though.

Ian if you have an inch mag catch you should start off with an L4 Bren mag.

"The AK74 is the equal of the AR15." @InRangeTV It's 2022. Do you still believe that?

Will you ever use a PTR 32 in one of your two gun matches? I think it's an interesting combo of eastern and western features, has all the advantages of an G3 but far more managale recoil. And I can't own it here in my country, so I'm afraid you have to test it for me :-)

Ian, are you guys using DSA mags or surplus mags? I've never had a DSA mag that ran reliably, I've used the followers, floorplates and springs in surplus bodies with no troubles. Hope this helps.

Ian: [does AK reacharound on FAL] Dieudonne: What gaucherie is this?!?

Do you guys plan to do this with the M1A as well? If you have in the past and I just didn't see it, would you mind linking the video? I spent a long time looking through various .308 "battle rifles" before settling on the M1A. I can shoot it really well and even my sister (for whom the M1A was the first rifle she'd ever shot) shot a 1.5" 5 shot group at 50 yards with the M1A off her shoulder the first time she shot it. I haven't used mine in competition (I'm a firm believer in AK/AR for 3 gun matches) but I would be interested to see you guys' take on it. Reloading the M1A is my biggest complaint with it. I can't ever do a clean reload with that gun, always have to fiddle with the mag a bit first.

Fal has been very successful battle rifle for many years... I would say the fal is better then ak variants of its time

Particularly on Ian's run, it looked to me that there were a considerable number of ricochets off the steel targets that flew a surprising distance back in the direction of the shooter. I'm not a Patreon supporter (sorry, business isn't good enough at the moment), but I do wonder if a discussion on ricochets off steel targets and safe range/course design in general might be a good subject for one of your Q&A videos, or even a video in it's own right.

Williams trigger? Cool video

Two roadrunners in the background of the conclusions 8-)

Why the ak-74? Isn't the ak-47 a better match in terms of calibre and 'generation' of design?

I am not a shooter, I have spent a day on a range with an SLR when I was 17 and it just beat me up. I have noticed that during the gun matches the magazines are often run dry, requiring a round to be chambered. Could Ian have changed magazines in between stations two and three giving him twenty rounds to close out without having to manually chamber a round?

strange malfunction own a original steyr stg 58 always load full mags an haze a excellent crisp heavy trigger

Ian needs a 805 bren, fnc ,or scar 16 or 17 for the next match.

The dsa rail is super for the fal.

Even as a viewer It is becoming clear that failing to download a mag by a round or two is asking for trouble. The odds that you will have a jam on one end or the other is too great.

that FAL is FU*Ked up. every properly built FAL ive ever known is 100% reliable and functional with fully loaded magazines. either the rifle or the mags are defective. i ran several CQB courses with my 21" FAL with both an Eotech and a Burris tac-30 1-4x optic and actually did well. 3rd overall. i got lots of laughs and i was tired by the end of the day but i made that long ass rifle run like a sewing machine and when we got to the 50 and 100 yd stages i smoked the others. i think you should each run the course with each rifle and average the results. your not comparing rifle vs rifle as much as shooter vs shooter. it was interesting though. btw the FAL isnt "more difficult to scope". there are half a dozen of very good pic rail top covers that slide on and bolt up. they are effective and inexpensive-$65-$125. the DSA heavy duty FAL receiver scope mount is the best imo. once mounted you can easily mount any optic you like just like any AR. also while FALs arent generally super accurate, in my experience they typically are 2" to 3" rifles and occasionally youll find a real shooter. mine would produce 1.1" 5-rd groups at 100 yds with its favorite factory load though 1.5" to 2.5" was the norm.

Ian you need better mags get some of keep shooting.com fal mags the best I've found anywhere and a reasonable price.

FAL all the way needs some doctoring. DSA mount and red dot

10:30 ish are those road runners in the tree line?

Why is the AK47 so popular but not the AK74?

it is possible to get forward assist mod kits for FALs (based off the israeli fal I think) correct?

Does the side rail on the AK keep zero after removing/reattaching optics?

Poor Ian...just one shot away

In the Greek army, we always put only 19 bullets in the 20 mag- FN FAL - it is a known issue - I did my duty 25 years ago. We used also G3. Great battle rifle but fragile. FN FAL is a beats and it is the weapon I prefer if I ever go to war. In urban warfare I will always go with a shotgun.

AK 74 vs. M 16 next?

Funny how the forward assist on the AR is a worthless piece of crap but it is beneficial on other rifles.

would a 9mm carbine (with a 16 inch barrel) be sufficient to run these kinds of drills?

did you guys ever considered to test a G36 in the Mud?

Ian loses time when he carries the rifle by the fore end, in his left hand, transferring his grip as he moves out, and again, as he prepares to fire...and, yes, it's pretty useless trying to clear the thing with the port facing up, and, reaching around the rifle to handle the charging handle...

Great comparison. I remember having to wield an FN/FAL C1A1 when I was in army cadets up here in Canada. Like, Ian, I'm a southpaw...really hated having to cock the rifle with my weaker hand. :(

What about an ar-10?

Its cute when someone tries to say an ak is "as good" as an AR.

Poor Ian!

DeAss and Malf

Someone needs to send or loan you guys a HCAR from Ohio Ordinance to test and review.

would be neet to see if you or anyone can shoot out of a moving truck....you know like the movies

FAL, G3, I'd go for a SCAR-H.

If I am in Ian shoes I just give up of Fal.

4 moa is a musket not a rifle.

Hmmm left hand shoot look not good :(

2:59

My DSA FAL won't even run a mag reliably. That's after going to the factory for "repairs". My Century C308, G3 clone is 100% at half the cost. I think I'd have to agree I'd rather have a G3 type rifle for serious situations. The Fal is the rifle you want to love but just can't.

road runners!!!!!! to the left of karl

Use a stg44 next time

Ian, your problem is that you wait to long to shoot. Site in and shoot.

or Ian needs to learn how to shoot or shoot a left hand fal!

FAL is no challenge for AK-74.... Obsolete POS. There ain't nuffin outmatching the 74 inside 150m anyway. Dat no recoil and that quick sight picture are top. The stupidly godly reliability (reciprocating carrier and godly magazines of 30 or 45 rd) is unmatched. And most AK-74s (rus mil) will shoot 2-3 moa with 7N10, sometimes

Once again, you are testing the shooters more than the weapons. Ian, bless his heart, doesn't even know how to operate the weapon; witness; he charges the rifle with the wrong hand, at times flipping the gun over just to charge it. So really, it's a meaningless comparison.

I wish I could block this channel like I can block people off my Facebook.

Fal more like FAIL