Man this makes it look even worse. That is a fairly complex line, so I dont think anyone should fault them for not seeing it right away. Thanks for the indepth breakdown, I've pinned it to the top.

Love u art ❤❤

@@THEcowboybob_MTG Are you the guy in the video?

I sure am!!

Tried to get ahold of u the day u posted but I couldn’t and gave up lol 😂

Lol yeah it happens to all of us. Theres a ton of stuff to track in edh, even for the best of players.

As the storm player and resident Archenemy of the playgroup, this is totally true. Sometimes I've sat looking at my boardstate for a solid 10 minutes until I find a line that wins me that turn

I'm kicking myself for forgetting Bowmasters made a orc army (to block a najeela warrior) and me losing to lethal "I didn't see the line" but I had it on next turn

@@CommanderReplayas the guy who “lied” I’m sick and have been playing 12 hours I didn’t see it until I started playing the cards lol

The context according to Fervent Alchemist is "He said he wouldn't win and he did anyway". Seems like a poor sport to me. Cowboy Bob didn't help his side either by immediately appoligising and saying we're in top cut. The whole game he kept giving information without being asked apparently and they wanted him to not win when he said he wouldn't. Cedh is full of weirdos it seems like.

Indeed theres an incredible lack of context. Any small detail could make me change how I feel about the situation, but based on what I see right now, Im just seeing someone salty about losing.

@@deadNdivine12 I think the apology is better than not giving one. I was going to breakdown the "top cut" sentence, but i cut it for time reasons. They were already griefing him at that point, that seemed like a very easy rebuttal without really escalating the situation. But we'll never really know how much was genuine, or how much was an antic disposition if you will.

I agree also. I did not like it, and for me its what kind of drew into making this vid.

For sure. I dont know if you'd call it checks and balancers per say, but at least you have me to make him look like a clown youtube.

I used to look up to kai too.... Smh.... Poor guy thought he could pub stomp a tourney..... Get good..... Sorry not sorry

@@stormtrooperjeepjk So I dont know him personally, but even the best of us do have our bad days of magic so I wouldnt necessarily judge his character on this alone. Now if theres a history, then thats a different story.

@@CommanderReplay good point.....

Yeah agree. Now there are any number of details that we dont have, that could make me change my mind, but based on what we know, i think we got a case of the sore loser.

Bluffing is different than blatently lying. Bluffing is more of making ut seems as though you can or cant do something about something, whereas lying would be directly giving that information to straight up make your opponents know incorrect information. Saying you dont ahve a win in a politics based multiplayer game and then turning around and winning agaisnt people who possibly had resources to use on you, who didnt because there was a bigger fish and they decided to think you were a honest person, is really scummy.

@@B3A5TorSomething No its not chalice checking is way more "scummy" than that. I will gladly sit at a table with 3 people who make me a better player by not telling every out they have and trying to deceive me than 3 players who never try to trick and complain when anyone else does.

@@elm0damian166 I would play with people who bluff but I don't want to play at a table where we all lie because I'm not gonna do any political plays at all, which is the most fun part of multi for me. That and his lie is possibly the only reason he won due to everyone holding up interaction for the guy who was gonna win

@@B3A5TorSomething what he did obviously wasn't politics it was straight up deceiving his opponents, our mouths are a part of the game we are playing just like picking up a pencil to make an opponent think you aren't going to block then putting it down when they full swing. Its all part of this great game.

I agree for the most part. The only thing i would say is that while this is a game, there are stakes to it. Once you add stakes such as money, you are no longer playing just to have fun or have a good time. You are playing to win. Sportmanship applies only to following the rules of engagement as to not gain an unfair advantage by breaking rules set forth. As long as they are not breaking any rules, they are engaging fairly. In a game with stakes, you must take all info you get with a grain of salt.

Haha. Good call.

Lol yep. "Thanks for the prize packs suckas"

Sure, we have a surprisingly small amount of information and context with this clip. I did read through a number of comments to try and increase my understanding and recapped as much as I could in the video. A few extra details could certainly change my mind pretty quickly about the situation if they emerged.

Plus if the dude ripped sevines off the top in his draw step or something, AFTER he said he wasnt gonna win then you cant fault a guy for changing his actions based on new information.

Kind of scummy is irrelevant in a competitive game that relies on politicking. This should never be competitive lol

When it comes to playing a game with money on the line; it's not really scummy, it's good information control. If bob was able to convince kai in that scenario, then it is kai's fault for not being more cautious in a game where the main goal is to win money, not just to have fun. If this were just a casual game or just no stakes, then sure, itd be in poor taste. But in a game with stakes, you need to be more discerning with what you believe. Once money is involved, it's like playing poker. You cant be mad when you get outplayed and believing lies is a form of outplay. Even if he wasnt lying, with how much luck can play a factor in the game, you never believe someone has lost until they scoop their cards up

Haha yeah those can happen. The "i dont care if I win, but im going to make sure you dont win" ive got a few names on my spite play list :)

Misrepresenting public information is just straight up against the rules. If you asks how many cards are left in your opponents deck and they say 10 when it’s actually 15, that’s a rules violation and you should call a judge.

That's hilarious

Haha, based on what I see here, I believe it. Thanks for sharing!

Yep theres a ton of things to track in commander, its easy to lose track of something.

Eh i probably would too. Im sure he's getting flamed right now.

its a diplomatic casual game.

But it isn't, it's a tournament with prizes, right?

@@stevefink2824 samethinf in a poker tournament, should realize everyone wants to win and trust isn't part of the game.

Im not aware of it being posted anywhere. That said, I didnt look real hard other than through the twitter post and the comments. Im not sure if the whole thing was filmed or not....with the amount of coverage on it I wonder if it shows up after the fact.

Im not sure actually. Could probably use about 60 seconds of video before the clip starts for better understanding.

It is up to all players to be more vigilant however, if I were in this tournament and seeing the other decks, I would probably ask for graveyards and board state every turn so it goes both ways

It's me.....I'm those judges!!! (This is always in my opening announcements)

I dont know that the full video is available anywhere. But yes theres any number of details that could make me change how I feel about the situation.

Yeah I agree. I like looking at it from the 1v1 angle, also the other sports. When applied in those situations its just dumb. I like the one comment that said hey we get hustled in magic once in a while, try not to let it happen again.

What would the verdict be if the player pulls some sort of hostage holding?

@@bwahchannel9746 That's a delay of game which is a penalized action according to the actual rules of the game they're playing. there is no rule about lying to your opponents (outside of lying or concealing what cards you have in public areas such as the battlefield or graveyard or the printed text on said cards.)

Both are pos imo. the call out more than bob

@@dmany13 nah I play with bob and he does this often, he needs to be called out because it cost the other players a chance for top 4 but also those players have played with bob before and they know what and how he plays

Lol. Its for dramatic effect. :)

Bluffing is a fundemental part of politics in edh. If you want to make lying a cheat in magic. You are going to open floodgates. Imaging after that I ask my opponent if he has a thassas Oracle in his hand and he says no, then proceeds to win with one in his hand. I bet if you were on that table, you would be the first snowflake to call a judge and say he lied and to kick em out.

That is what we aim for here at commander replay.

Yeah I agree. I really think that just about every other format in magic is a better competitive format than commander.

So if I’m in a poker table and my opponent asks me if I win with what’s on the table and I lie to him to make him fold, I’m unsporstman? Come on man. It’s a competition. You have to always assume the worst, bluffing is lying, and lying is a form of bluff. And no one is mad when the blue player keeps his two islands untap while only holding a creature on hand

@@mistercleff8819 yes I would call that unsportsmanlike. Are there grey areas yes but saying something flat out untrue is not one of them for me and for many others. 2 untapped blue mana does imply the possibly of a counterspell but it is factually not the same as me verbally saying I have a counterspell while not having one . Because one is an assumption that my opponent made based upon the board state, and one is me giving information to intentionally mislead them. I’m willing to admit that those solutions are similar, but there are for me key differences and if you disagree, that’s fine but that’s my peace on that. I’ve tried running a good response for the last bit about lying and bluffing like four times in each time I feel like I’m trying to dance around the issue, so I guess I’ll just save us. There’s a reason why we have lying and bluffing while they are connected they are not always the same thing I feel like you understand this your response does kind of imply that I think we just disagree on where that distinction is because for me, and this is a personal take I think lying should just be against the rules and that’s why we have bluffing instead of lying. An example being your opponent goes to attacks you pick up your pen and then they declare their attacks. If they decided to full swing into you because they assumed that you were not going to block any of it because you picked up your pen, that is an assumption they make versus you saying I am not going to block on a previous turn then proceeding to block. I’m not even of the opinion that you have to keep your word just that’s those are different and should be treated differently. I would say one is lying and one is bluffing and that’s basically how I see the situation. you’re welcome to disagree but I’m gonna stand on the point of this felt very unsportsmanlike, which is my real issue with the situation.

Its cool we dont all need to agree on this one. I will say that theres any number of details that could emerge that would make me feel very differently about the situation. But based on what I know right now, this is how I feel about it.

​@@ARK-ep4bb you sure write a lot of words to be wrong and in the end say nothing

Yeah like I said, we dont all need to agree on this one. I feel how I felt about it, but others can choose to feel how they want :)