Kidnapped by the Comanche: What its like to be captured by North America's most brutal Indian tribe

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Dates and Dead Guys

Dates and Dead Guys

2 жыл бұрын

“Not only did they inflict horrific suffering but by all evidence, they enjoyed it… Making people scream in pain was fun for them….it was an important part of their adult culture, and one they accepted without challenge.”
~ S.C. Gwynne, in Empire of the Summer Moon
I855 a Texas Ranger named Nelson Lee is kidnapped by the Comanche in the American Southwest. This was the reality for many settlers encroaching on and passing through Comanche territory on the wild Great Plains. In the episode we'll take a look at Lee's experience and see what it was like for someone to be captured by a Native American Tribe known to be more brutal than any other on the frontier.
Resources
1. Kidnapped by Indians (Book) edited by Frederick Drimmer
2. Empire of the Summer Moon (Book) by SC Gwynne
3. Three Years Among the Comaches (Book) by Nelson Lee
- The eBook is available online for free books.google.com/books/about/...
4. mapgeeks.org/texas/

Пікірлер: 1 800
@loslobos786
@loslobos786 2 жыл бұрын
As a Native American myself I love these accounts as they destroy the myth of the noble savage. It brings into clear focus the reason why it took Europeans four hundred years to tame the west. Yes we were noble but we were also brutal we loved our tribes and our people but we are people and people can be inhuman to each other. We living in the modern times should remember this so we never repeat it.
@threeoneoh6406
@threeoneoh6406 2 жыл бұрын
I’m Mexican Guatemalan but my dad comes from the K’iche people of the mayans which is in Guatemala, I also love pages like these because I get to learn more about my people throughout the americas even tho we come from different regions of America we are still the same people, our languages and some of our cultures are the same but different in the same time
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
The Great Plains were especially hard to tame. Real tough groups like the Apache and Comanche lived there and the lack of water and timber made it really difficult to settle.
@nathanielovaughn2145
@nathanielovaughn2145 2 жыл бұрын
400 years? .... dude, what calendar do you use? 🤣 try 100, 125 tops
@loslobos786
@loslobos786 2 жыл бұрын
@@nathanielovaughn2145 you're an idiot the first Spanish landings in the Yucatan peninsula started in 1502 the last Native American uprising was in Utah in 1923, that's over 420 years. Math you no understando???
@jasip1000
@jasip1000 2 жыл бұрын
@@nathanielovaughn2145 does the year 1492 say anything to you?
@Anonymous_Passerby
@Anonymous_Passerby 2 жыл бұрын
Most people are ignorant of the true definition of the word savage. It never meant uncivilized or unintelligent. It means especially brutal or violent. When people called the natives “savages” this is what they were referring to.
@johnnolan6777
@johnnolan6777 2 жыл бұрын
BS. It was a term used by colonialists for native peoples (starting in Ireland). It was used to justify colinalisation by dehumanising indegious peoples. Native peoples in Australia were looked on as animals for a while and could be shot.
@qalbi_ibn_lari
@qalbi_ibn_lari Жыл бұрын
So the same thing they did to to Indigenous people?
@sarantsogtmunkhbaatar6974
@sarantsogtmunkhbaatar6974 Жыл бұрын
@@qalbi_ibn_lari "especially brutal or violent". not just any violence u fucking loser.
@liberalbias4462
@liberalbias4462 Жыл бұрын
​@@qalbi_ibn_lari no
@themangarage2203
@themangarage2203 Жыл бұрын
@@qalbi_ibn_lari No, the same things the indians did to other indians as well. Kill, kidnap, enslave, brutalize etc. The same things they did to each other from centuries prior to europeans arriving on the continent.
@moistmike4150
@moistmike4150 Жыл бұрын
As a teenager I was quite interested in tales of the American frontier. At one point I remember reading a book of short histories of the Indian Wars. One story in particular I wish I'd never read was about an American Army officer who was captured sometime in the early 1800's by an Iroquois war party. His own small band of soldiers had been killed during an ambush and he was the only survivor. The story was related by a French trapper who was friendly to the Iroquois in that area, but had no love for the Americans or British. Long story short, the Iroquois braves decided to burn the American alive. When the trapper told the officer that his fate was to be burned, he stated that he "would attempt to bear it bravely", but the trapper told him that it would be nowhere near a quick death, as the Iroquois truly enjoyed the spectacle of burning their captives slowly on a bed of coals where they would tie a man's hands behind his back and then rope him by his neck to a pole, but leave his feet and legs free. Then they'd watch him dance as he'd slowly roast to death over coals with just enough rope to allow him to put part of his body out of the intense heat, but not all of it. This led to a man "favoring" various parts of his body as the rest of him roasted in various places until the thousands of twists and turns to obtain some relief had finally caused every part of the man's surface to become charred, with the exception of his face and head; at which point the Iroquois would shove him to the ground and heap hot coals on his head to finish the deed. The "fun" was to see how long they could keep a man alive during this ordeal. The trapper related that it took this particular officer a day and a half to finally expire. I still have trouble grasping this level of evil and the knowledge that the native peoples of the Americas had been dealing out this sort of treatment to their rivals long before Europeans appeared on the scene has since destroyed any naive ideas of the "Noble Indigenous Peoples" B.S. you might hear from supremely ignorant people in our modern era.
@skdjirrrdjdm3926
@skdjirrrdjdm3926 Жыл бұрын
Geez that's horrific, I kinda wish I could unlearn that now lol
@nirjhar4803
@nirjhar4803 Жыл бұрын
And the Iroquis isnt even close to being the most brutal tribe...
@gib59er56
@gib59er56 Жыл бұрын
@@nirjhar4803 You ain`t shittin. The Tribes west of the Mississippi were less likely to tolerate any whites. I don`t try to compare what type of torture is used, as any form of torture is insanely cruel. I as an angry and violent young man, at times think about the ways that different cultures or countries used very different forms of harming and brutalizing enemies. My family has fought in EVERY war this country ever fought save the Mexican war. We do not talk about combat in my family as a rule. One truth is known though. Asian countries are the most evil and cruel. I am grateful that I was never a P.O.W. in any country. Always save a round in your sidearm is a rule too.
@ricardorao2012
@ricardorao2012 Жыл бұрын
The bastard desserved. He should stayed in Dublin. If he wasnt invading other people land, he wouldnt find this kind of death.
@troypayne6701
@troypayne6701 Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of my Cherokee grandfather telling stories about how "in the old days," the Cherokee would tie their rivals up in wet leather and watch them die as the leather dried over a low fire squeezing them to death. I agree the natives were savages.
@YouT00ber
@YouT00ber 2 жыл бұрын
There’s a great book called “Indian Depredations in Texas”, which is every Indian encounter in Texas from 1830ish-1870s. It’s wild stuff. These are great stories from the time.
@zachthomas5272
@zachthomas5272 2 жыл бұрын
My question when it comes to books like this is, how can we be sure it documents EVERY account.
@YouT00ber
@YouT00ber 2 жыл бұрын
@@zachthomas5272 surely it’s a bit hard to assume it’s “every account”, but the author seems to have collected various stories(including his brother who survived being scalped) over at least a 40 year period. He seems to have tried to gather as many as he could find and accurately report. It’s like every cowboy & Indian movie you ever saw. It’s on Amazon and super cheap for kindle .
@Seven_Leaf
@Seven_Leaf 2 жыл бұрын
Some of them during that time period, not all of them.
@lindaflegler940
@lindaflegler940 Жыл бұрын
Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text you copy will be saved here.Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text you copy will be saved here.Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text you copy will be saved here.Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text you copy will be saved here.Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text you copy will be saved here
@utubeisazzhoe1413
@utubeisazzhoe1413 Жыл бұрын
The channel Unworthy History reads from that book.
@cobraferrariwars
@cobraferrariwars 2 жыл бұрын
"...never has to worry about serious violence breaking out ever again." Sad comment on human nature. Excellent summation. Thank you.
@StoneColdDonnieBell
@StoneColdDonnieBell 2 жыл бұрын
I love you dry witty humor and the learning experience 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿✊🏿💯‼️
@infinitestarz
@infinitestarz 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this Incredible history piece!
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
That is a very high complement. Thank you. It means a lot.
@TheGravitywerks
@TheGravitywerks 2 жыл бұрын
Nine Years Among The Indians...by Herman Lehmann (captured)....another awesome and eye opening read. Thank you.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the recommendation. These stories are incredible.
@coldenhershey857
@coldenhershey857 Жыл бұрын
I love your use of irony, it is the soul of both history and humor!
@richardoconnor1821
@richardoconnor1821 2 жыл бұрын
Supremely entertaining and well-done!
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that, thank you.
@CptWhit3y
@CptWhit3y Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this. Thank you.
@mctavish23
@mctavish23 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent. First time here. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks.
@Templar1129
@Templar1129 2 жыл бұрын
Goes to show: cruelty, evil, and generally being an asshole are equal opportunity human traits.
@nicholaspowroznick4322
@nicholaspowroznick4322 2 жыл бұрын
but its only talked about nowadays if its white on "insert anyone not white"
@samwilson3997
@samwilson3997 2 жыл бұрын
Good way to end up murdered
@oooof6861
@oooof6861 2 жыл бұрын
@@nicholaspowroznick4322 as a white man, I see that too. But I think we have grown a bit as a species. Just the advent of social media allows people’s from all over the world to “sit on a collective couch” and discuss the direction our culture is going- whether trolling smart asses or serious discussions. Seems it is in its infancy right now, but I can already see 2 main sides are forming. One side is darkness, hate, manipulation- like these olden times where humans are very animalistic. The other side, which is growing out of the ashes of the currently burning down of culture, is the side of light, compassion, respect, and responsibility. I think within 2 generations, most of this racial and gender nonsense will be looked back on and laughed at- “when we were still barbarians”
@indiosveritas
@indiosveritas 2 жыл бұрын
Relativism is cancer.
@fostexfan160
@fostexfan160 2 жыл бұрын
LOL....so true
@serina091975
@serina091975 2 жыл бұрын
Thoroughly enjoyed. Love history ❤️
@Fractal_blip
@Fractal_blip 2 жыл бұрын
awesome video. couldnt stop listening
@yellowrose9355
@yellowrose9355 8 ай бұрын
I truly appreciate the time you put into this audio was a little off. This is a story that should be told & you did it very well.
@kutie216
@kutie216 Жыл бұрын
It’s pretty amazing that the hunters were so willing to help him. Great story. I look forward to more videos!
@2L82Pray1
@2L82Pray1 2 жыл бұрын
I have a cousin from South Dakota and it was incomprehensible to me that many of their neighbors and friends had ill-will toward Native Americans. We were taught in school they were peaceful, noble and agricultural people--all natives were the victims, and the white men were the brutal ones. When I got older I found my birth mother and found out that I'm part native (my grandmother was Shoshone and creek), and started researching. What we did to the Natives was brutal and horrible. But what the natives did to not only the whites, but Mexicans and other tribes, was horrifically cruel and brutal. The Comanche wiped out an entire tribe--complete genocide. They killed, raped and brutalized indiscriminately. It didn't matter to them if a girl was 12 or 20, they would rape and kill them. I'm not saying the white man was any better in some instances, but at least we realize that raping and killing women is wrong. The Comanche (and Apache) didn't seem to care about "right and wrong" or the concept of morality, or even consider those concepts. Those stories were passed down from generation to generation, about babies bashed to death, and little girls being raped and carted off never to be seen again. If they were called "savages" they earned it. Even fighting for your land and way of life is no excuse for some of the things the Comanche and Apache did to other human beings (slavery probably being the least of their sins and we consider slavery to be the worst, which they often, blatantly engaged in). The concept of the "noble savage" is a lie we were fed in school, not the reality. The reality is the West was utterly brutal in every way, with both sides committing atrocities that, today, would earn you the death sentence by lethal injection.
@malmutetrooper863
@malmutetrooper863 2 жыл бұрын
I can say you are very ignorant in regards to my tribe, the Comanche, and so many more. Morality is a high teaching to Natives, we have story's, and wisdom to how the world works and how those teaching's were given to us to teach our children. I can comfortably say your research is mostly googling thing's, not even checking letter's written from Native chief's to Washington, their speeches recorded in court's, their hand in creating peace or war during a sitting for long periods of time and getting advice from elders, war chiefs, and medicine men. Speaking to their enemies about their disputes and so on. Look up how long it took for eastern tribe's to concluded a decision on war, often including great Britain and French to speak. Preparing food, ceremony, dance etc. For two weeks they would debate and hear all of what everyone thought and wanted to put forth.
@malmutetrooper863
@malmutetrooper863 2 жыл бұрын
@Lavender Raine Never denied it, but pointing out it's embellished with more cruelty by European people than it was, especially when they are the one's telling fake stories like they did during that time. Take a look at each European person you hold in high regard due to history, and see how much they are embellished. Gave them more justification in their minds to do the things they did or to implore others to do so. Like during the Crusades the pope exempting their warriors from sin and to do horrific shit to Muslim people in the name of God. You will see the pattern for each time European people come into contact with new people in the world. They will describe them as barbaric, make up heathen ritual's to justify a holy or rightous war, and take Land on that justification.
@sanderson9338
@sanderson9338 2 жыл бұрын
It was tough times with horrible people on all sides
@Frisbinator
@Frisbinator 2 жыл бұрын
What you said about morality is spot on. When people are trying to be fair they love saying “Both the whites and native Americans committed atrocities” True, but you’ve got to consider if an atrocity (torture, rape) happened, how did the society respond? If the society supported and even cheered torture and rape, without any protest, it deserves condemnation, period. I’ll let anyone reading this (all 3 of you) to draw your own conclusions.
@malmutetrooper863
@malmutetrooper863 2 жыл бұрын
@@Frisbinator Think about how many Americans will respond by saying their ancestor's raped and killed Natives and be proud of it. Think about the Church that was implemented that headed management of Natives and their children, and often raped, molested, and beat those children in church or at boarding schools. Still have a pedophile problem in Christian church to this day. It's sickening those things yet society accepted them or turned a blind eye. But Don't worry I'll let you guy's go back to your White American echo chambers of what you want to hear and tell each other.
@jbos5107
@jbos5107 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your video. I look forward to many more.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate that. The Comanche were a different bunch. It definitely drew my attention.
@ioandavies8576
@ioandavies8576 2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful channel mate. I really hope it goes far these topics are right up my street. Brilliant stuff you deserve more my friend 🙂👍
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate it. I’m doing my best. More to come.
@peterharris38
@peterharris38 2 жыл бұрын
Just found this channel and it's fantastic, the telling of the story is excellent and obviously well researched, thank you.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the support. It’s a lot of fun.
@JimiBLong
@JimiBLong 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys l disagree with Peter Harris, when it comes to the amount of, quote "research", end quote, that you did. lt sounds to me that you just read the book, which l'm sure was highly embellished upon by the author, and made a video about it. Also, if you had any real knowledge about Native American history and cultures, you would have NEVER used the word "squaw" to mean a Native American woman. That's a highly offensive and derogatory term that was made up by some highly offensive white man who saw Native Americans as being less than human 'savages'. lt the equivalent to calling a woman the 'C' word. The type of people who used that term were the type who considered Native American women to be the only thing less human than a Native American man, and were only good for one thing.
@peterking1270
@peterking1270 2 жыл бұрын
Really cool channel, very interestingly done.
@maydanlex
@maydanlex 5 ай бұрын
Love this. A wealth of fascinating information. Thank you.
@mikej1186
@mikej1186 2 жыл бұрын
Read the book Empire of the Summer Moon, the great Comanche Chief Quanah Parker. It was suppose to be made into a movie but it never happened. Great book, hard to put down once you start reading it. The Comanche were the best light infantry in the world in their time. I'm a Vietnam combat veteran, (173 ABN 1966 1967) one of the guys was 99% Comanche, what guy! After all these years, we lost contact. Read the book about 12 years ago, know why he was so good and fearless. Tool point for guys he felt didn't have it that day. Nothing seemed to bother him, all business for him. He even knew when we were the "hunted!"
@brucenorman8904
@brucenorman8904 2 жыл бұрын
Best light cavalry not infantry
@mikej1186
@mikej1186 2 жыл бұрын
@@brucenorman8904: Excuse me !!!! I stand corrected. Being 75 years old, I still remember being Airborne Infantry!
@Mark-gg6iy
@Mark-gg6iy 2 жыл бұрын
"The Comanche were the best light infantry in the world in their time. " Because you are familiar with the Mongols, Chinese and every other fighting force in the world at that time? Trump Univ. School of History?
@mikej1186
@mikej1186 2 жыл бұрын
@@Mark-gg6iy I like your Trump Univ. line, nice to know I'm not the only one who uses it that line! The Comanches "being the best" was in the book "Empire of the Summer Moon." In the book they were compared to all of them also. You should contact the author how he came up with that. Years ago there was a TV program comparing all types of fighters then and now. The Comanches were rated very high. In 1966 I received a free ride to attend the University of SEA which stands for South East Asia. The main Campus was located in South Vietnam. Complaments of the US Government. Didn't cost me or my parents a cent. Paid for everything (food, clothing, housing and etc.) plus paid me very little for attending. My two year degree was with the 173 ABN. In 1968 the GI Bill picked up grad school. The future Dean of Trump U was 4F and to me is still 4F in body and mind.
@Mark-gg6iy
@Mark-gg6iy 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikej1186 The Commanches might very well be the top of their class for that time period it's just a burr under my saddle when Americans claim something "American" is the best in the world when I doubt a full worldwide, reputable study was done. I lived in SEA so familiar with the acronym. Yes, Trump U is my go-to snark. cheers.
@htc86752
@htc86752 2 жыл бұрын
Just a suggestion, to improve the audio, hang heavy sheets or blankets all the way around you. It'll cut down on the echo. Bedtimes Stories does the same thing and it sounds really good. Granted, they probably have a really good mike, but they don't use a soundbooth but it still sounds like they do. Enjoyed the story, hope you have some more coming soon!
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tip. I bought a mic the other day but hadn’t considered anything else to dampen the echo.
@kevendrover2442
@kevendrover2442 Жыл бұрын
Just found your site, as a youg man I grew up watching old time cowboys and Indians and now as a older man I am coming to discover my knowledge of those times are greatly flawed on both sides. looking forward for more videos. Thanks stay safe from newfoundland and labrador Canada.
@kickapootrackers7255
@kickapootrackers7255 2 жыл бұрын
Will be watchin, thankya. Great content👍
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Love to hear it. Thank you for the kind words!
@molek5823
@molek5823 Жыл бұрын
Great narration with some tongue in cheek humor!
@rdf4315
@rdf4315 Жыл бұрын
All I can say is the native Americans definitely had some of the best names ever like this big wolf, rolling thunder, crazy horse, sitting Bull, Geronimo, God I love these names .
@saintultra2737
@saintultra2737 7 ай бұрын
A Kiowa chief had the absolute coolest name ever- “Lone Wolf.”
@z-z-z-z
@z-z-z-z 2 ай бұрын
@@saintultra2737 - Comanche Chief Buffalo Hump (Po-cha-na-quar-hip), translated means "erection that won't go down."
@John-mf1sz
@John-mf1sz Ай бұрын
@@z-z-z-zKnow how Geronimo got his name in adulthood? Check it out, that wasn’t always his name. Which was pretty typical in a lot of tribes, being given a name as a child, and being bestowed another as a man. Geronimo gave himself the name, though. Little different, a man worth remembering.
@marvwatkins7029
@marvwatkins7029 2 жыл бұрын
Comanche weren't noble, just savage. Even the Apache feared them, or were at least wary. Theirs was a culture of sadists. Hopefully today's tribal members are a bit more mellow.
@chetawitko1886
@chetawitko1886 2 жыл бұрын
They're still mean as shit. We call them the Comanche "Siŋtéȟla Oyáte" (Rattlesnake Nation)
@mdelizabeth3069
@mdelizabeth3069 Жыл бұрын
@@chetawitko1886 "rattlesnake" is an interesting name and loaded with meaning. Why do you call them that?
@saintultra2737
@saintultra2737 7 ай бұрын
@@mdelizabeth3069Our tribe has lots of mythology and a creation myth (debatable amongst the different bands) centered around snakes. Snakes are sacred and feared animals in our culture.
@harambeuzamaki2985
@harambeuzamaki2985 2 жыл бұрын
This channel is going to blow up
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate it. It’s growing fast.
@patlytle1128
@patlytle1128 Жыл бұрын
Excellent channel!!
@bustavonnutz
@bustavonnutz 2 жыл бұрын
Him getting married & gaining their trust after what they put him through is the craziest part to me. I guess they believed that they had either broken him or gotten him to see himself as a part of their tribe; not exactly the wisest move from the Comanche, but then again this is also a dude who went on an expedition through the middle of Comanche territory. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@collenfisher3635
@collenfisher3635 Жыл бұрын
Indeed....lol
@tribequest9
@tribequest9 Жыл бұрын
The reason they were willing to make it across the Comanche range was because the Comanche were a relatively small tribe, and the range was huge and the Comanche tended to stay to the north east toward Oklahoma. Certain bands did go in other directions but these were raiding parties looking for loot etc.
@jamescole8049
@jamescole8049 2 жыл бұрын
Surprised this popped up. Glad it did. Keep it up and you’ll do great. I’d get yourself a dedicated mic and run with it.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I love the support. I actually bought a mic the other day. Next video should be done in about two weeks and will sound a lot better.
@shaniell.mathur6372
@shaniell.mathur6372 Жыл бұрын
Awesome episode
@husker0415
@husker0415 Жыл бұрын
Love your humor, dude! Great job and keep them coming.
@wilshirewarrior2783
@wilshirewarrior2783 2 жыл бұрын
Most Indians lived by the sword and then were put to the sword…this is the way it goes. The history with no punches pulled and excellent narration with quotes injected effectively makes this a first rate account. People who do not understand the movement of peoples need to understand “Entropy” and the universal presence of it from molecules to tribes or even bands of humans. Nothing is stagnant is this universe.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
We live in a very peaceful time relative to the past and I am very grateful. I appreciate the high praise.
@threeoneoh6406
@threeoneoh6406 2 жыл бұрын
Native American*
@TROll-oe9ng
@TROll-oe9ng 2 жыл бұрын
@@threeoneoh6406 what makes them native?
@threeoneoh6406
@threeoneoh6406 2 жыл бұрын
@@TROll-oe9ng because we’re native to this land, like it’s really not that hard to understand and also we’re not Indians, we don’t come from India my boy
@TROll-oe9ng
@TROll-oe9ng 2 жыл бұрын
@@threeoneoh6406 I never called you an Indian to start. But didn’t these people supposedly emigrate across a land or ice bridge across the Bering strait? So, I ask again, what makes them native?
@OrenBarzilay
@OrenBarzilay Жыл бұрын
Hey ,the episodes on the Native American are truly inspiring,especially the ones with the Apaches ,please more of those,more on that amazing culture and history,much love,oren
@matthewberkowitz8284
@matthewberkowitz8284 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video.....
@hutchinsong1979
@hutchinsong1979 2 жыл бұрын
A guy called willie mckay who was born near maghera in Northern Ireland was also captured. There's a book about him called 'beyond the wild missouri' it tells the story of how he eventually became chief of the tride. I live about a mile from where he was born
@YouT00ber
@YouT00ber 2 жыл бұрын
Wild stuff
@thechiefwildhorse4651
@thechiefwildhorse4651 2 жыл бұрын
There was never a Caucasian that was Chief of my Nation. -COMANCHE NATION
@religionisatragedy8537
@religionisatragedy8537 Жыл бұрын
@@thechiefwildhorse4651 well your greatest chief was half white,close enough
@thechiefwildhorse4651
@thechiefwildhorse4651 Жыл бұрын
@@religionisatragedy8537 I'm not white at all. And I'm the Chief -COMANCHE NATION
@CrossTimbersSon
@CrossTimbersSon 2 жыл бұрын
The similarities of the Viking culture, eight hundred years earlier in Europe are astounding. The only way the Comanche could be overcome was the post civil war union government paid to slaughter all of the Buffalo. William Tecumseh Sherman led the Indian wars and wiped out their food source as he had done to the confederates in the south. (Odd that his middle name was after a Shawnee chief who was known as a peace keeper)
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
The colt revolver played a massive role too. Standard muzzle loaders didn’t offer much advantage to a bow once a shot was fired but when Texas rangers started to have a bunch of chambered rounds the technology changed the way fighting took place.
@et76039
@et76039 2 жыл бұрын
On the other hand, during the Civil War Union officers paid the Plains tribes to steal Texas cattle. The cattle raids in question numbered in the hundreds or thousands, and were sometimes being seen taken south, fueling speculation that they were being sold in Mexico. These numbers far exceeded needs for nourishment, at that time, anyway. This was a factor in the conflicts that occurred afterwards. To check this, read the local histories of counties in central Texas, and the family histories of the ranch owners.
@et76039
@et76039 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys, before repeating arms were brought in, an Indian with bow and arrow had a weapon advantage over a soldier with a gun.
@debraprince4511
@debraprince4511 2 жыл бұрын
Sherman was a sadistic brute. But, since he was a Union soldier, his big statue still stands in D.C.
@timothydhudson64
@timothydhudson64 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t think the famous Shawnee leader, Tecumseh, was ever known a peace keeper, but rather a staunch advocate of his people.
@sierrasix5479
@sierrasix5479 2 жыл бұрын
Well done!
@eileentaylor1691
@eileentaylor1691 2 жыл бұрын
excellant ...well done!
@zenster1097
@zenster1097 Жыл бұрын
I laughed when you mentioned about serious violence breaking out again and the Civil War. Poor Lee, can't catch a break.
@kebler414
@kebler414 2 жыл бұрын
My great grandmother Tomasa, was captured by the Comanches. Later sold to the Mexicans. She then escaped with her brother and found her way back to the Tribe.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
That’s an eventful life! How has your family been able to preserve that story?
@petermcculloch4933
@petermcculloch4933 2 жыл бұрын
Is her story published?
@tiahnarodriguez3809
@tiahnarodriguez3809 2 жыл бұрын
Please share more of your grandmothers story. I’m black and like most black people my ancestors were slaves, but not just to white Americans, also to the Cherokee. My dad has a picture of some of our ancestors, and we even know the name of one of them. I did some research and was appalled at how brutal they were treated. I also found a bunch of documented first hand accounts on line from black slaves that were owned by Native American tribes and they were all very similar to my family’s story.
@timonthetube92
@timonthetube92 Жыл бұрын
"A broad hands width......that'll work" Love the delivery.
@jonahpedersen5429
@jonahpedersen5429 2 жыл бұрын
Terrific story telling.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much.
@kaylamarie8309
@kaylamarie8309 Жыл бұрын
Very well done Sir.
@kelvindickson5675
@kelvindickson5675 Жыл бұрын
Kayla How are you doing hope you're fine and staying safe?
@kaylamarie8309
@kaylamarie8309 Жыл бұрын
@@kelvindickson5675 I am indeed..hope you are too.
@jimred5700
@jimred5700 2 жыл бұрын
The phrase " A fate worse than death", comes from this period of American history. It`s how the settlers described being captured by The Comanche.
@yoso585
@yoso585 2 жыл бұрын
The phrase is pure fantasy, or speculation at best, when it come to death.
@tomeggleston367
@tomeggleston367 2 жыл бұрын
Gibbon’s 1781 ‘Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire’.
@jimred5700
@jimred5700 2 жыл бұрын
@@tomeggleston367 The phrase from Gibbon`s work is "The matrons and virgins of Rome were exposed to injuries more dreadful, in the apprehension of chastity, than death itself." This phrase is not the same as " A fate worse than death", which is how settlers in 1800`s Texas described being taken by The Comanche.
@tomeggleston367
@tomeggleston367 2 жыл бұрын
​@@jimred5700 - agreed that Gibbon first wrote of the concept (if not the word-for-word phrase in use today). But do you have any evidence/examples then for your claim that 'The phrase "A fate worse than death", comes from this period of American history.'? Word-for-word , Jim.
@jimred5700
@jimred5700 2 жыл бұрын
@@tomeggleston367 Tom....there WAS no "concept", that is the point. There is NO connection between what Gibbon wrote and what the settlers said /experienced in Texas 100 years later. Gibbon was referring to an Historical concept as he perceived it to be. The settlers in 1800`s Texas were describing something that happened on a weekly / monthly basis. Make NO mistake Tom,..........The Comanche could SOON make ANYONE aware of the difference between historical reference and reality. THAT is why the Texas Rangers came into being,.......THEY were tough,...............NOT in the same league as the Comanche,......but nevertheless............seriously tough cookies.
@theidahotraveler
@theidahotraveler 2 жыл бұрын
So glad k just found your channel. Thanks so much. I'm from Idaho so she have a lot of Shoshone and bannock natives here
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Happy you like it!
@SerZachariah
@SerZachariah 2 жыл бұрын
Look at this channel! Wow , uh thank you sir.
@dazhibernian
@dazhibernian 2 жыл бұрын
They were American Mongols basically.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I thought about that quite a bit actually. There are absolutely parallels. The most obvious being that both were hyper talented horse archers who could travel massive distances in short periods. Their culture was organized strongly around horses. And both obviously had the capacity for great violence. Even the Mongolian Steppe is comparable to the Great Plains I’m that there is massive lands for pasture.
@dougcampbell4402
@dougcampbell4402 Жыл бұрын
Very informative, and well done. ( learned a lot!). Note: Add background textiles or sound absorption materials to the surrounding area and that will get rid of one warehouse, tinny sound on the audio (cheap also). Really enjoyed it otherwise and will subscribe!
@ginahamlyn2569
@ginahamlyn2569 Жыл бұрын
This was so interesting especially coming from South Africa where we mainly have seen and heard about the Native Americans via film.
@quintonscholz3656
@quintonscholz3656 2 жыл бұрын
Thx...courageous man.
@miketracy5603
@miketracy5603 2 жыл бұрын
I like to hear more of these stories are there any more like this?
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I have made some things on similar topics. The one closest in time period and content is probably my video on Lewis Wetzel, a frontiersman from the Ohio Valley in the late 1700s who was known for fighting and killing Native Americans. I’ll link it below if you would like to take a look. A lot of my recent videos have been around Early American history from the time of exploration an conquest. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qcdxib1yzbuyfGQ.html
@miketracy5603
@miketracy5603 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys Thanks i appreciate it....
@bondvagabond42
@bondvagabond42 2 жыл бұрын
On his escape, his limbs swelling and weakness, poor wound healing, are lesser known scurvy symptoms.
@earljohnson2676
@earljohnson2676 2 жыл бұрын
Cool story it’s so amazing and I’m glad I’m here today with all these crazies but it’s really violent
@calliefisher8558
@calliefisher8558 2 жыл бұрын
Ohhhh! I loved this!
@prestonsmith9824
@prestonsmith9824 2 жыл бұрын
Hello, there! How are you doing? I hope you are fine and staying safe?
@calliefisher8558
@calliefisher8558 2 жыл бұрын
@@prestonsmith9824 I’m doing well. You?
@jono8884
@jono8884 2 жыл бұрын
To Los Lobos's point...all peoples across the globe have had their various histories of warfare, slavery , cruelty. The Native Americans were busy fighting each other....as were the Europeans, Africans, Asians etc. at the time of discovery and conquest. The Iroquois were wiping out tribes in the east, the Comanche establishing their lands in the southern plains, the Aztec and Inca had established dominance over tribute tribes.
@billwoods5406
@billwoods5406 Жыл бұрын
And now in these days different gangs ,political groups,news outlets,ect are trying to stir up race wars in the United States. If you can get people to hate each other you ,they will become weak by the decision. Therefore easier to conquer their Land.
@CrossTimbersSon
@CrossTimbersSon 2 жыл бұрын
Great history! The “Boy captives” is also a good book by Clinton L. Smith that tells of him and his brother being taken captive by the Comanche and the years that followed.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
There are an incredible amount of these narratives that survive and a ton to learn from them.
@Brad45420
@Brad45420 2 жыл бұрын
i would love a video like this on the history of the native Americans rite b4 and the immediate period after the spanish came up til the western expansion. seeing those maps was amazing as well. little known period id love to learn about. also the eastern usa when it was primarily natives ofand that history. i know it's prob not documented but I can hope 🤣.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I just finished a really fun book on this called “The First Frontier” by Scott Weidensaul. It talks a lot about it. My next video (probably two weeks until its done) is kind of about this topic. I’m researching Francisco de Orellana’s first journey down the Amazon and his experiences with the uncontacted people. The research has been a trip and If what was reported is true there is an amazing amount history has forgotten.
@chriswhite2151
@chriswhite2151 2 жыл бұрын
Another good one is the Olive Oatman story.
@armoody
@armoody 8 ай бұрын
Clinton L. Smith was my great-grandfather. I was raised by his son, Allen Smith, my grandfather, and grew up hearing lots of stories about my great-grandfather both while a captive and in his latter years. Growing up I knew three of his sons and two of his daughters in addition to my grandfather. Several of his grandchildren are still alive, as is a daughter-in-law. The point his, these stories are not ancient history and continue to influence our Texas culture. After reading Empire of the Summer Moon, I realized that my great-grandfather's book is very much the PG version of these Indian stories, probably because, as my great-grandfather hinted in his book, many of his compadres where still alive when his book was published. When asked if he ever killed a white man while with the Comanches, he would only say, "I was an Indian."@@datesanddeadguys
@hudsondolezal3553
@hudsondolezal3553 Жыл бұрын
Great channel
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys Жыл бұрын
Channels been getting a fair bit of compliments the last few days. It’s genuinely appreciated. Thank you.
@mesomemore97
@mesomemore97 2 жыл бұрын
Good job. Told it flat and square.
@zebadiahmusser8648
@zebadiahmusser8648 Жыл бұрын
Great account very well written and spoken . You deserve more followers bro .
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys Жыл бұрын
That’s very kind. When I made this video I had about 20 subscribers. It’s growing.
@mikedean5707
@mikedean5707 2 жыл бұрын
Matamoros is in Mexico, just south across the border from Brownsville, Tx. This makes sense if Lee was headed out of Corpus Christi. Distance between the 2 cities is 167 miles.
@thyslop1737
@thyslop1737 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! What a story.
@hanksmith4065
@hanksmith4065 Жыл бұрын
I Read the book about this many many Years ago. A very well told and detailed account. Totally fascinating, very hard to put down. How some of the women were kind to him and very beautiful. Some tears when he was traded to others.
@jamesburns2232
@jamesburns2232 2 жыл бұрын
The only thing that saved Lee's life when he was captured was his pocket watch's alarm feature. Something to remember the next time you go shopping for survival gear. ;-)
@brianjenkins352
@brianjenkins352 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Another fascinating story is that of Simon Kenton's capture by the Shawnee. Trafficked from village to village as a great prize he was forced to run the gauntlet 9 times and survived.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I read about that in my research for this video. Simon Kenton is an intriguing figure along with a bunch of frontiersman. I had already anticipated picking a book up on him at some point if you have any recommendations.
@brianjenkins352
@brianjenkins352 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys The Frontiersman by Allan Eckert holds an incredibly detailed account of his capture. I would recommend anything by Eckert if you're interested in the expansion into the Northwest Territory between like 1750 - 1820. "Follow the River" by Thom is another incredible escape story.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome. Frontiersman is already on my audible wish list. I appreciate it.
@jerryjones188
@jerryjones188 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys The Frontiersman by Allan Eckert is excellent, and That Dark And Bloody River by the same author is also excellent. You won't be sorry, but they both are long reads. Great writing and well researched facts make them worthwhile. You might change your mind, or at least add a few tribes to the list of most brutal Indians. The atrocities of some of the settlers is very equal in brutality within the books. Those were some hardy peoples back then, Indian and settler alike!
@jerryjones188
@jerryjones188 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys Also, great video. I enjoyed it.
@garygregory5794
@garygregory5794 2 жыл бұрын
really enjoyed your summary of this interesting account/book. Thanks, great job
@Nnip9
@Nnip9 Жыл бұрын
Here's my 2 cents. I read that when visitors/tourists would visit the Apache Geronimo, some would ask if he regretted some of the atrocities he committed. He was said to have replied that he had trouble sleeping because he would see the faces of the children he had killed. After an attack in which the Apache had captured 2 teenage boys, they reached enough distance where the chief gave the order to his 2 second-in-commands to kill the 2 teenagers. They went to the back of the raiding party where the two boys were being held and released them. It's speculated why but nothing happened to the 2 second-in-commands.
@fredarobertsonhall1532
@fredarobertsonhall1532 2 жыл бұрын
My 2nd great grandmother Elizabeth Hayley was kidnapped by the Comanche when she was 11 years old During the civil war. Here family didn’t have the money to pay their ransom until a year after the war ended She was 14 years. In history books her nickname was Squirrel tooth Alice.
@mctavish23
@mctavish23 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for that.
@ReasonAboveEverything
@ReasonAboveEverything 2 жыл бұрын
Lmao. Did the Cherokee name her Squirrel tooth?
@kelvindickson5675
@kelvindickson5675 Жыл бұрын
Freda How are you doing hope you're fine and staying safe?
@brianhankins9992
@brianhankins9992 11 ай бұрын
wait what's a "2nd" great grandmother?
@fredarobertsonhall1532
@fredarobertsonhall1532 11 ай бұрын
@@brianhankins9992 My Grandmother’s Grandmother. Or my Dad’s Great grandmother. Every generation before your Grandmother you add a great, 1st great grandmother 2nd great grandmother etc.
@haleyguthrie3113
@haleyguthrie3113 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for being respectful with our ancestors.
@NewTheoryMagazine
@NewTheoryMagazine Жыл бұрын
New subscriber
@cathryncampbell8555
@cathryncampbell8555 2 жыл бұрын
I *Loved* your closing sentence! Talk about Irony....
@calvinmcbride8562
@calvinmcbride8562 2 жыл бұрын
Great granddad was a Texas ranger 1870- 80s. He kept a diary and the commanches were definitely the meanest mfers ever..
@daughterofdiaspora
@daughterofdiaspora 2 жыл бұрын
“Ever” is a stretch wouldn’t you say? The Celts The Spartans The Roman empire The Vikings I mean, the list goes on…
@calvinmcbride8562
@calvinmcbride8562 2 жыл бұрын
@@daughterofdiaspora true, but in the 1880s the Comanches were only ones torturing Americans .
@tiahnarodriguez3809
@tiahnarodriguez3809 2 жыл бұрын
@@daughterofdiaspora Your KZfaq name says a lot, but to answer your question they’re mean in comparison to other tribes. How can you possibly be this dense? And funny how you only list white groups. I’m black myself and even I know that we could be just as bad as any of those groups.
@maxwellsaxon9995
@maxwellsaxon9995 2 жыл бұрын
Living in New York City, now that's real torture!!
@manaaki3038
@manaaki3038 Жыл бұрын
Empire of the Summer Moon is an awesome read.
@DJOzYBoY
@DJOzYBoY 2 жыл бұрын
Subbed and good luck from a fellow youtuber
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate it, brother. And now I know where to go if I need to 80s jams.
@ladystarr4373
@ladystarr4373 2 жыл бұрын
Matamoros Mexico is south of Brownsville TX, directly across the border. Cynthia Ann Parker is my cousin, her father trekked to TX & my grandfather established the Parker-Hickman Homestead. the Homestead is now part of the Buffalo River National Park.
@kelliethomas8171
@kelliethomas8171 2 жыл бұрын
VW Star, Cynthia Ann Parker is my cousin too. My brother has a book that has a few stories of the family. Cynthia and her son Quanna are in the book. My grandfather and mother are also in the book.
@hannibalheyes339
@hannibalheyes339 2 жыл бұрын
Y'all familiar with Crowell Tx?
@anpowicasta2135
@anpowicasta2135 2 жыл бұрын
You and me are probably distantly related and cousins.
@georgerolfs9004
@georgerolfs9004 2 жыл бұрын
Do you have any idea or speculation as to what happened to the watch? My assumption is that the Comanches were in possession of it when Lee made a run for it. It would make a great museum piece.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t. Lee doesn’t mention it after his escape
@Black43Rose
@Black43Rose 11 ай бұрын
He survived because of the watch, but more importantly, he stayed quiet. To scream in pain is a weakness!
@aguy559
@aguy559 2 жыл бұрын
This should be a movie.
@IMBrute-ir7gz
@IMBrute-ir7gz 2 жыл бұрын
My only complaint is your vocal audio. Too much "echo" from your surroundings in that room. Different acoustics? Different microphone?
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
Mic is the problem. It’s being fixed.
@darinzadina6671
@darinzadina6671 2 жыл бұрын
You’ll have to read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. Probably best novel I’ve ever read. Great stuff and channel the content/pace/personality/ although you’ll have to get a mic to take away that echo bounce hard on my ears (@.20 seconds how can I find that art work?) Looks like a Comanche Chief/Warrior?
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the recommendation. The mic is a common and very valid critique. I bought one last night. It should make my next video sound better. I read the description of blood Meridian. Sounds awesome. Same author as No Country for Old Men so that’s a good sign. I believe the painting is done by H.C. Zachry. It’s on the cover of a book called Frontier Texas. If you are looking for a good version of the image the following link includes it. twitter.com/shipoffoolcast/status/1523290275564908546?s=21&t=iMmjz4u6mvX-3KdTXsUhFA
@darinzadina6671
@darinzadina6671 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys Awesome. Thank you for the info! Yeah Blood meridian is a masterpiece of art. He’s better or just as good as Shakespeare. They are finally talking about him in lit/lectures. BM is difficult you don’t just read once it’s (has everything) but that’s the brilliance. The guy is Genius at Dialect/protagonist/atmosphere just wait until u read The Judge..the overture of work that guy has is mind blowing. Suttree by Cormac is a favorite to me and many but difficult as well. Maybe start with no country to read..maybe all the pretty horses too.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
You could write reviews for this guy. Very high praise. I’m sold. I have a long drive this weekend. If Blood Meridian has a good narrator that’s gonna be my listen.
@darinzadina6671
@darinzadina6671 2 жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys safe travels. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sKeUdZWi29qwaIU.html
@emcollier
@emcollier 2 жыл бұрын
He also wrote The Road
@barbaracharette6923
@barbaracharette6923 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating!
@SuperHyee
@SuperHyee 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks !
@strangetex
@strangetex 2 жыл бұрын
The Matamoros you pointed to on the map is directly south of Corpus Christi about 100 miles as the crow flies on the gulf side of modern day Mexico and nowhere near Baja California. And if any Corpus Christi resident were to hear you say "some town called corpus christi...". It wouldn't be good.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
It was a silly mistake. I misread Lee’s story. I thought he had said he traveled west from Corpus Christie to Matamoros is California. In reality in traveled from Corpus Christie to Matamoros then west toward California. I thought he meant a different spot. Careless error but not overly important to the story.
@bartle6168
@bartle6168 2 жыл бұрын
I like your work but, the microphone echo is horrendous, you can correct this by suspending carpet vertically behind the camera and by using audio foam. Well researched, just very poor audio.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I bought a microphone the other day. Hopefully the next one will sound better. Thank you.
@SharonLaBolle
@SharonLaBolle 6 ай бұрын
Fascinating story. Those were some tough dudes !
@marvinwilliams2056
@marvinwilliams2056 Жыл бұрын
You are very knowledgeable in these things im a cree but yes you know alot
@SJam491
@SJam491 2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff -- just give this man a better microphone, please.
@nevbarnes1034
@nevbarnes1034 2 жыл бұрын
The microphone is fine. The problem is the room acoustics.
@jraticusmaximus3720
@jraticusmaximus3720 2 жыл бұрын
Hey maybe I heard this incorrectly but at about 6:12 mark your talking about the trip after they Comanche raided the camp. You then said the Cherokee taunted them with their tomahawks still bloodied from the night before. I think you mistakenly said Cherokee instead of Comanche.
@datesanddeadguys
@datesanddeadguys 2 жыл бұрын
I misspoke. I actually caught it in editing, but at the time the channel had something like 16 subscribers and I lazily decided a mistake like that wouldn’t be noticed by the 20 viewers it got. I have tried to be more mindful since.
@doctorhayo7976
@doctorhayo7976 Жыл бұрын
@@datesanddeadguys Wow such integrity in broadcasting
@stevegaines3590
@stevegaines3590 Жыл бұрын
great job......& love the satire...
@revelation5577
@revelation5577 Жыл бұрын
TRUTH...Well done
@leemarquette171
@leemarquette171 2 жыл бұрын
nez Pearce had extensive herds of horses when Louis and Clark came through in 1703 they talked about them in their journel also Russian traders brought horses to the coast traded for furs in the 1600's and maybe before tribes did get horses from the Spanish too theirs a book called ghost wind stallions about early trade with the Russians
@steveelder5306
@steveelder5306 2 жыл бұрын
at one point there was an estimated 400'000 wild horses in the late 1800's early 1900's in Oregon.
@tommurphree5630
@tommurphree5630 2 жыл бұрын
I read a biography of Kit Carson . I read that on one occasion , smiling Comanches cut out a captives liver , then ate it raw while the dying victim watched .
@BipolarAyatollah
@BipolarAyatollah 2 жыл бұрын
They must have been really hungry.
@tommurphree5630
@tommurphree5630 2 жыл бұрын
@@BipolarAyatollah I'm assuming so . I like cooked liver and onions .
@BipolarAyatollah
@BipolarAyatollah 2 жыл бұрын
@@tommurphree5630 Me, I like onions. 😁
@marcbergeron8690
@marcbergeron8690 2 жыл бұрын
Truely terrifying!
@rexcowan9209
@rexcowan9209 2 жыл бұрын
Great video but there was a bit of echo in the sound made it a little hard to hear.
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