Barry Allen and Hal Jordan were not legacy characters. They were rebooted versions of two failed DC characters that hadn’t had titles for years. It’s like calling Vision, Human Torch, and Black Widow legacy characters become before the ‘60s Marvel had some characters with the same names in the ‘40s when they were Timely.

Flash: Jay Garrick Barry Allen Wally West Bart Allen (Record scratch) Barry Allen

Captain America: Steve Rogers John Walker Steve Rogers Bucky Barnes Steve Rogers Sam Wilson Steve Rogers & Sam Wilson

Wonder Woman: Diana Prince Nubia (Record Scratch) Diana Prince Artemis (Record Scratch) Diana Prince Hippolyta (Record Scratch) Diana Prince Donna Troy (Record Scratch) Diana Prince Yara Flor (Record Scratch) Diana Prince Trinity. ………….

@@drewtheunspoken3988 I feel like the official Cap list is waaaay longer than that if you count all the retconned Caps from 1945 to the present.

@@commonsense5199 In my head, I can tolerate certain DC characters sticking around forever while others get replaced. Wonder Woman, being an immortal, is the easiest.

@themultiversalmagpie7827 I liked the Thor stuff but everything else left me cold.

I haven't read X-Men in years so I'll have to take your word for it that Betsy becoming Captain Britain feels soulless, but Betsy did spend time as Captain Britain before she became Psylocke, so it kinda makes sense she'd go back to being Captain Britain once she got her original body back.

@@carlgibson285 Yeah, I known Betsy and Captain Britain are brother and Sister. But the thing is Brain Braddock is still alive. I mean why he has to give his mantle to his sister? He still be Captain Britain and Betsy can go by Kwannon’s mantle, Revanche(that is name Perch and Wes don’t know about nor every say) or her going by Captain Avalon. Ironic too because Avalon relates to lady of the lake.

@@commonsense5199 I wasn't sure if Brian was still around or not since I've not kept up with comics, but yeah, I'd prefer it if he was still Captain Britain. I'm British and I grew up reading the UK Captain Britain comics so he's always been a favourite of mine, but Marvel have been treating him badly for decades. TBH I think I'd prefer Betsy to go by Captain Avalon rather than Revanche, but that's because I was never really a fan of ninja Betsy.

(More of me) Hawkgirl would be the first example. She was a female version of Hawkman and she did starter doing that like issue 15-24 somewhere in there(Of Flash Comics). She was Hawkgirl before there was even Wonder Woman. And, Black Mr. Terrific wasn't Silver Age, that was like the 90s. Maybe you didn't mean he was Silver Age. I don't think people forgot Green Lantern and Flash from golden age when the did the Silver Age Ones. A better example(for the Mr. Terrific) might be Zatana, I don't know how many people knew who Zatara was when they Introduced her in the Silver Age

To touch on a brief point: I really like the Golden Age Vision (and there seems to be an Easter Egg of him in a recent Ultimate book, when the heroes are looting the Maker's catalysts). And I'm almost positive that the Golden Age Vision was a huge influence on the creation of Sleepwalker. They just couldn't, you know, call him The Vision.

people hated jason and damien, people hated kyle reiner, all of these dudes are white and straight, I won't deny some people probably hate them for the reasons you stated, but 9 out of 10 times if a popular character gets replaced people will hate it, it's the reason lesser known characters have an easier time with this, like everyone likes Jaime blue beetle, reye montaya question, stargirl, or Nick Fury. Some characters are just too popular to change ,for example look at how people are arguing about the new Superman suit.

@@Superdude-rd2gs I think the outrage is just a little louder when it’s the reason I mentioned. Especially in today age we’re click baiting and the “culture wars “ is a thing.

Wasn't Barry also from another reality? I would say that also discounts a comparison.

You’re just biased

Whether or not it was successful isn’t why you can’t compare the two. You can’t compare the two because the Jay Garrick Flash title had failed, there hadn’t been a Flash title for years when they introduced Barry Allen Flash... who was meant to be a completely unrelated character that used the name Flash. For the Ironheart thing to be similar, Tony Stark Iron Man would need to be a failed series that hadn’t been in print for years, and Ironheart would need to be an unreleased revamp that wasn’t meant to be connected to the previous version. Ironheart on the other hand was an out of the blue Iron Man replacement at a time when Iron Man was more popular than ever; just came off as this incredibly cynical product, it felt like it was designed as a concept for a Disney Channel show.

None of the 3 Blue Beetles are Popular, Jaime being more recognizable or popular is a stretch. Stargirl is more a Superman/Supergirl, Batman/Batgirl situation than a Barry Allen/Wally West situation. Ted Knight and Jack Knight are probably a better example for 90s Starman is more popular than 40s Starman but then again, that's the case in the current day. In 1940s was 40s Starman more popular than 90s Starman in the 90s? Things fall out of popularity with age. And Idk if she's more recognizable than Jack Knight Starman, maybe idk she was in the Justice League Unlimited Cartoon, and thy gave her that HBO turned CW show. As far as Batman the Brave and the Bold, obviously 'half the world' was you being hyperbolic, but you might be letting it cloud your judgement. More people were probably introduced to Jaime Reyes from that episode of Smallville than the Batman cartoon. That not even considering the comic knowledge of Ted Kord to Jaime Reyes. Also, Ted Kord was in the Justice League unlimited Comic, I don't recall if he was in the show or not, if he was, that show would have been around as popular as the Batman one. Lastly, People not knowing the original character doesn't really help what you've said about Blue Beetle or Stargirl. Both character being related to characters that were already not popular also doesn't help. Like a Movie could just make a completely different Blue Devil named Teddy Thunder or something and almost no one would know, and people would think Blue Devil is Teddy Thunder, that doesn't make for an Example of anything, just yeah movies are more popular than comics.

@@HonduranHoneymoonhon Jamie Reyes has a movie. Young Justice season 2 focus on Jamie Reyes. When Blue Beetle movie was announced and have trailers WB did advertised Jamie Reyes comics. Thankfully they didn’t recommend New 52 Blue Beelte it is too mean spirited. Both Jamie and Stargirl were in Justice League Action cartoon. Stargirl also appeared in CW’s Legends of Tomorrow show. That version of Stargirl serves at the first person to have the cosmic staff. Even in most recent blue beetle comics it focuses on Jaime Reyes as main character. Even when Ted Kord came back to life, he serves a mentor figure and supporting character to Jamie in Blue Beelte Rebirth. DC also retcon Ted Kord has sister in Blue Beelte graduation day due to thanks to the Blue Beetle movie. I disagree about Stargirl is in same situation as Superman/Supergirl and Batman/Batgirl(in matter of fact Batgirl has a situation with Batgirl). After Jack gave the Staff to Courtney, he retires to superhero life so he raise his son. And he hasn’t return since. Which is a proper ending for Jack Knight. Even Geoff Johns acknowledges the ending in his current JSA series. I am glad Geoff Johns lets Jack to keep his ending. Even Jack Knight was never mentioned by name nor he appears in any outside of comic. Only his dad Ted knight was mentioned by name outside of comics. After Jack Knight retires, Stargirl stayed. As she is more prominent character to the JSA and JSA all stars. She appears in New 52’s Justice league of America that turns into Justice League United. And DC Golden age Geoff John made her part the current JSA comic, he gave Stargirl a spring break one shot and her mini series Stargirl and the Lost Children, where Stargirl and Red arrow goes to find the missing sidekicks. I don’t even remember what other Starman do. Like, two Starman I remember is Will Payton, who recently appeared in Scott Snyder Justice League and Death Metal. And Thomas Kallor from legions of superheros. Last thing I vividly remember from Thomas, he bought all the lemonade from this girl. He paid her a lot of money. Thom Kallor did appear in Justice League vs Fatal Five. Due to Stargirl getting her own show coming out it is marketing wise to reprint her old comics into an omnibus and put the Stargirl from the tv show on the cover of the omnibus, hoping it will would sell. The Jamie Reyes in Smallville came out in 2011. Batman brave and the bold Came out in 2008. I don’t recall Ted Kord appearing in Justice League. I remember booster gold was there as they mistaken him for green lantern. Ted Kord did start to appear more. After Jamie. With later episode of Brave and the bold, where Batman reveals to Jamie he knew Ted Kord. The Ted Kord DC animated showcase written by the Legendary, Jeremy Adams. And Ted Kord appears in DC Superhero girl. Oh The Jamie Reyes movie reveals Ted Kord is alive. Lost somewhere. I am glad Blue Beelte movie has a continuation in animation as I heard. Well there was that Catwoman movie by Hallie Berry. This version is not even Selina Kyle her name is Patience. Also that Constantine movie where They hired Keanu Reeves instead hiring a British guy. But then again there are original characters to debut in cartoon that turn into comic characters. Harley Quinn, Livewire and X-23.

@@commonsense5199 This was a long response, my bad Oh, That's right, there was a movie. Did anyone watch it? I looked it up 130 million worldwide. So maybe like 10 million tickets sold. Would it have mattered if if was Ted or Jaime? Probably not. Will anyone remember Jaime or even blue beetle after seeing that movie? Probably not. I don't know how well the Blue Beetle Graduation Day sold. Rebirth was like 18 issue before canceled, and like you said, that was with Ted and Jaime. The Years 'Batman: The Brave and Bold' came out and 'Smallville' came out are irrelevant, maybe we've had some miscommunication. I mentioned Smallville because probably more people saw that episode of Smallville than than Batman: Brave and the Bold. Yeah, the Booster Gold has the Best Episode too, 'The Greatest Story Never Told' I think it was called. You're naming a bunch of different things Jaime has been in. Him being in things, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. DC and Marvel shove characters into a lot of things, even unpopular, unknown, or disliked ones. I'm assuming you like Blue Beetle or Jaime Reyes; you're naming a bunch of things he's in. I didn't watch that movie, or Justice League Action, or Brave and Bold or Young Justice. I didn't read Graduation Day. And the Rebirth Comic sucks, so I stopped reading it. But naming the things he in doesn't mean anything. Maybe we are having a miscommunication. You said "Good examples", "More Popular and Recognizable than their predecessors", and "bet half the human population was first introduced of Blue Beetle is Jaime Reyes". So, I mentioned Smallville, saying more people were probably introduced to Blue Beetle from Smallville than Batman--Dan, Ted, or Jaime. And then, I said, maybe people were introduced from that Justice League Unlimited Comics--as a possible thing more people saw Blue Beetle from than Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but again I was like idk if he was in that i didn't recall, I do recall him being in the Justice League Unlimited Comic. So, you naming things he has been in doesn't make him more popular or more recognizable than Ted Kord. One of my main points for that was that no Blue Beetle is popular, and barely recognizable to people outside of the superhero fan sphere. And then I questioned whether Jaime Reyes is more popular and Recognized than Ted Kord--maybe he is. And then there is the value of the recognition, like in comics ted kord and jamie reyes, versus that movies. "What was the name of that guy from blue beetle?" -"Oh yeah, I saw that movie. I don't know his name."- "What race was he?" -"I think he was latino right?"- "What's his superhero name?" -"Oh, you just said the name of the movie. Um hold on, hold on,. Uhh Blue, Blue oh Yes Blue Beetle."- And then, for "Good examples". Is Jaime being shoved down people's throats a good example. Idk, I'm not a Jaime Reyes fan, so maybe he wasn't shoved down peoples's throats, but that's waht it looks like to me. Who I am a fan of though...is Stargirl, and Jack Knight Starman So, Yes, I know about the storyline and stuff around the Staff from Jack to Stargirl, and the lost children, etc. I didn't know about Legends, I stopped watching movies at the end of 2019 and shows at the end of 2020, but I was cutting back in shows during that year. So barely caught the Stargirl Show(Season 1), I had to though. It was mainly to finish the last Season of Supernatural. Like with Jaime Reyes, you just named a bunch of things she was in, it's not really relevant. I don't think she was shoved down people's throats. More Importantly though it's not the same with Stargirl as Jaime. You said you don't agree with the SupermanSupergirl vs Barry Allen/Walley West. So, I said it because How do you distinguish between Flash and Flash, Starman and Starman, Spider-Man and Spider-Man, By saying their names, Barry and Wally, Ted and Jack, Peter and Miles. Superman and Supergirl, oh that's how. Star Spangled Kid and Stargirl, Starman and Stargirl, oh that's how. What I said had nothing to do with passing off the staff, but I can see why you disagreed with it. I don't know why you mentioned the Stargirl Omnibus, maybe it's our failure in communication. I don't know why you mentioned the other Starmans, the only thing relevant to Ted Knight was to give a comparison. Like, Is Stargirl more popular and recognizable than the Star Spangled Kid, yeah, it's not the 1940s anymore. So I gave Ted Knight as a 'in the 1940s was he more popular than Jack Knight was in the 90s'. Idk the answer to that, but certainly Jack Knight was more popular than ted Knight was in the 90s. So in 2024, is Stargirl more popular than Jack Knight and Ted Kord, yeah. Among the movie and show crowd, definitely. Among the comic audience, Popular, I don't know which one is more popular. Recognition, Stargirl would win, she has a costume. In the Late 90s Early 2000s, is Stargirl more recognizable and popular than Jack Knight? Maybe, I don't think so. Maybe the JSA comic might have put her over. These "good examples" like the example to follow is to what? Just put a character into things until the people tha remember the original character die off and then try to make the knockoff character the more popular one. Idk if that's a a good example. Then Catwoman Movies doesn't apply to the Movies more Popular thing because people already knew even outside of comics, Catwoman. Maybe it could apply to that 60s Batman show, but not that moive. Also I don't know how many people even registered that it was someone other than Catwoman, If that makes sense. The Constantine Movie also wouldn't apply because that was still supposed to be Constantine, accent or not. But In 2004 or whenever that movie came out, yeah, Keanu Constantine was probably more famous than comics Constantine. So it wouldn't apply as a counterpoint to Movies not being more popualr than the comics. It was a general statement anyways, so even if Keanu and Hallie Movies applied, they would just be exceptions. I don't know who Livewire is, is that the girl from that episode of Supergirl show that went into the lampost? Idk. X-23 isn't an original character, and She first appeared in something other than comics? Did she not first come from comics? Idk I don't care about Marvel. And I don't know why Harly Quinn would be mentioned. Like if she's an original character, why would she come up in this conversation, unless i'm just not picking up on what you're trying to communicate. If she's not an original character, and is just a knockoff joker, by way of Female Joker, or by way of Legacy Joker, then she would't apply because Joker is still more recognizable and more popular than Harley. If the point was she was like Constantine and Catwoman, then Joker was also in movies and stuff, so it wouldn't apply. Now if you take away the more popular and more recognition thing, yeah Harley Quin would be a good example, as in she's a character people have accepted and is her own entity Same with Stargirl. IDk about Jaime again I don't know if he does stand as his own entity, and Stargirl and Harley are Girls like Supergirl(If Harley doesn't count as a legaacy). You're the first Jaime Reyes Fan I've ever come across.

@@commonsense5199 My bad for the long reply, also i had put '-' on both sides of the dialogue to distinguish different people talking apparently that makes it cross it out.

@@HonduranHoneymoonhon Blue Beetle Graduation day was a mini series. It did into Blue Beetle solo by Josh Trujillo lasted 11 issues. I don’t like Jaime Reyes because he things. I still like him because he good character. He make have the spider man forumla. But he still stand out and come on his own as something unique. Has his own entity differentiated himself from his predecessors. His comics before New 52 are the best. His rebirth series it was in fact stupid the make his Scarab magic(and wish they did more with JL 3000). But I still appreciate that Ted was around giving advice Jamie Reyes. It was cool Ted still have his costume and gadgets. But Josh Trujillo did fix that Jamie’ Scarab is not magic is went back to alien origins I mentioned the Starman because you said Stargirl is in situation of Superman and Supergirl and Batman and Batgirl. The different is Both Superman and Supergirl are active heroes, while Jack Knight is retired and Courtney is only one who has the Cosmic staff. No one else is using a cosmic staff or a cosmic rod other than Courtney. I distinguish it by character that no longer active and only is active. The reason I say batgirl has a situation with batgirl because there are too many batgirls. Like Barbara is both Batgirl and Oracle and that is annoying. And Spoiler goes by batgirl both pre and post new 52. What is so bad being Spoiler. I mean yeah her dad is behind bars but does Stephanie need to be Batgirl? Cassandra Cain is the best batgirl but somehow Barbara Gordon is more popular than her. Despite Cassandra Cain has the longest comic run. Barbara Gordon kept getting relaunches. I bring up the other Starman because they were active while Jack Knight is retired. Thomas Kallor Starman from Legion of superheroes was on the same JSA team as Stargirl. The are Starman and Stargirl that both active but don’t remember them interacting with each other. I believe Thomas was at Stargirl’s birthday party. I don’t remember Thom and Courtney team up like how she, Pat and Jack teamed up in issue 0 of Star spangled kid. But Thomas Kallor did meet Jack Knight in Jack Knight’s run. I think Thomas Kallor, you know the latest Starman left JSA. The name Starman was given to a lot characters in DC just like how marvel give the name Marvel to anyone like Marvel girl, Captain marvel. marvel boy. Like I can see Jack Knight and Courtney Withmore the same with Barry and Wally, and Zatara and Zatanna(I say your reply in my other comment) because Wally, Zatanna and Courtney started out as younger heroes that had organic progression that fill take the roles of their predecessors. Heck, Zatanna has a cousin name Zachary Zatara. No one know who he is. I don’t think Modern DC comic do not use Zachary Zatara. Zatanna outranks her predecessor and her successor. I mentioned about the Stargirl Omnibus from 2020, I said it is marketing wise to advertise the older comics of a character gets reprint because their adaptation to get more of an audience. DC has done it with Blue Beetle, Stargirl and Black Adam. Image comics do that too. You know about Invincible having a Tv show, yes? Image comics reprint Invincible Trade books but with the new cover of the Invincible from the tv show. Even Deadly Class has done as well only on their first volume. SYFY cancelled the show. Even books and comics has the cover or a stick mention that their are the source material of the adaptation. *Marvel comics does it wrong* by changing the Marvel character to be in sync with MCU. I hate that. The reason why Danny Rand was replace by Swordmaster because the Backlash of Iron Fist tv show, because Danny Rand is white. Also the biggest offender of Marvel retcons Kamala to be a mutant. Now Kamala is more shove down throat unlike Jamie Reyes. I only read 12 issue of Kamala’s story she’s fine like 7 out of 10 but she feels off after Civil War 2. Like it piss me off that Saladin Ahmed gave Kamala a symbiote knockoff suit. When you mentioned about Blue Devil having a different name. It just made me remember Catwoman by Hallie Berry. People hate that movie. But then again this Catwoman literally ingrained herself into Batman. So it wouldn’t matter. I am not sure the reaction about Keanu Reeves’ movie. I know Constantine with Matt Ryan is has a cult following. It popular enough he survive and joins The Arrowverse. Matt Ryan even voices act Constantine in animation as well. Livewire debut in Superman animated series in the 90’s. She move into mainstream dc comics continuity in 2006. X-23 first appearance was in X Men Evolution cartoon in 2003. Her first comic appearance was NYX 2004. That is my point there are breakout and fan favorite characters from movie, tv and animation they go into mainstream into comics just like Harley Quinn. She didn’t first appear in the comics she made her first appearance in Batman the animated series. Appearing outside of comic does still leave an impact.