A CHANNEL HAS BEEN DETECTED ALTER COURSE TO INTERCEPT. CHANNEL IDENTIFIED LORE RELOADED PREPARE FOR ASSIMILATION.

Lore Reloaded simply put...I like it.

Video was good. How many weapon trees does the constitution class have? I suspect that photosynthesis is pretty inefficient for any kind of weapon making - unless they cut them down to make hand to hand weapon handles. I could see that. Issue them to ship security like those schools issue mini-bats.

Lore Reloaded Picked on the Oberth long enough now have we? Time for a new target?

Lore Reloaded so does this mean KZfaq has surrendered to the The Lore Reloaded and you are no longer suspended

The torpedolauncher is also right where a butterknife could literally free the ship of its head^^

Star Trek Online: main campaign

@@tongieboi unless you play the TOS intro like a chad.

@@60sspider-man29I’m pretty sure genuinely doing it that way gets you a head start over the others because it’s tutorial campaign is much longer than the Discovery one

@creed8712 I'm pretty sure all of the tutorials get you to level 10 by weighting the xp rewards. So it's really more a choice of how long you can bear tutorials vs what sound effects you want all your ui, transporter, etc to have.

@@tongieboi Signals officer: "Admiral, we've got a message coming in from the... USS Excessive Force. Who... named that thing?" Admiral: "What do they want?" Signals officer: "They say their command crew is dead. Borg attack. What do we do? Should I tell them to come back to Starbase for replacements?" The I'm sure incredibly burnt out admiral overseeing STO crews: *Sips from flask* "Meh, fuck it, who cares. Send them out there. I'm sure it'll be fine."

I believe I remember reading or seeing in a documentary that Roddenberry was opposed to the chapel, but the people in charge in the 60s just didn't think not having religion was acceptable to the viewing public. Which, we see almost every major species having a form of religion, why should humans be one of the few "higher" beings to have moved beyond it.

Afaik, on ships in our past, chapels and religious services tended to be held in places like the galley, or the perhaps the officers wardroom. Why have a chapel taking up space when you can have it serve another purpose as well?

Starfleet officer chaplain like IRE & MASH would be interesting, more interesting if they worship science and they have the catch phrase “science damnit!”

Michael Sue Sounds like they finally get their heads straight by the time they build the Galaxy.

Gareth Fairclough Depends on the ship. A submarine or frigate wouldn't have room for a chapel, but a cruiser might, and a carrier (or battleship if you're in that era) certainly would.

Actually the ship that became the Ent-A (whatever her original name, I've seen several) is widely considered to have been a brand new ship in STIV, not a refit. Backed up by STV, in Scotty's log, and some sourcebooks which claim all the system glitches in that one were because of a bug in the new computers.

@@Lans32485 but why would they build a totally new ship on a design that was considered to be "old"? You think by then NCC-1701-A would have been either an Excelsior class or something between that & the Constitution. Also, considering the costs of building a starship(in materials, hours, and credits ofc since there is no "money" in the future) you'd think that Starfleet would usually keep a ship service for a century & uprade/refit it over the years as new tech developes, which is convenient with modular design. Idk...Star Trek is really a fictional drama, with Science as a prop & space as a backdrop...so much of what as been written & put on screen is...highly illogical.

@@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 The DESIGN wasn't considered old, the Enterprise herself was, she was actually going on 40 counting the pre-TMP stuff. Also there's enough internal differences between the A and the refit designs (bridge, shuttlebay, etc) that point to the Ent-A being even more advanced than the original was after the refit. Besides, the Excelsior class would be in service up through the Dominion war, and the refit design was barely 10 years old so the design wasn't exactly old by Starfleet standards. Also, most sources say the ship that was to be the A was already built at the time the whale probe showed up, they just changed the name and registry for the Enterprise crew.

@@Lans32485 Roddenberry has been quoted as suggesting that the Yorktown became the Enterprise-A, which is a nod to the original series before the first pilot was filmed, in which the hero ship was Yorktown, not Enterprise. Considering that only seven years after The Voyage Home, the Enterprise-A was decommissioned, it seems reasonable that she was also an old ship, otherwise, why throw away such a relatively young starship just because her crew is standing down? I reason that the Enterprise-A by the time of STVI was on her last tour no matter what, having already lived a long life as the NCC-1717 Yorktown.

C'mon! You can't expect them being as good as Ship Builders from the Year 2010 (in Stargate)! At least THEY had Internet! The Federation has no Internet anymore!! So yeah, Humanity in Stargate is just smarter and better in every way. They also have more Heroes. Star Trek's Humanity only has Picard, Riker, Data, and some more.

olympicnut and one in little pieces at the battle of Wolf 359

Why wouldn't there be? NX-01 was turned into a museum ship when she was decommissioned. I imagine every major class of vessel to be used by Starfleet would be in some kind of museum after their service life.

@@Tar-Numendil Assuming they're ever decommissioned at all. Some sources claim the Excelsior seen and mentioned in TNG occasionally is the same one from ST3, meaning it's been in service for 100 years.

@@Lans32485 Not implausible. There hasn't been a new B-52 built since 1962, and they're expected to stay in service into the 2050s at least.

One was a training vessel used by star fleet in the 24 century

They call the setting; "New Year's Day."

Stun is best used on most living beings. Ships have energy shields to keep some of the energy from hitting the ship.

William Signs Shithead.

Ansel Ford, They have a point, why send in security to stop a riot when you do it from orbit.

Or if a giant space critter gets a little frisky and you don't want to harm it...

Spock: Whose engrams did you use? Dribbling Nutter: Mine Spock (sotto voce): Of course you did...

Exactly because at the M5 incident, Excalibur was lost. The Constellation was lost with the planet killer, and the Defiant (supposedly most advanced Constitution was lost in the interphase field. And finally the Intrepid, which was an all Vulcan crew was lost with the space amoeba. So that's 4 lost right there. They had to be replaced right? Also, to address the warp speed assessments, I refer to you #1: The Kelvans has drastically modified the ship to travel intergalactic speeds (Warp 11) by utilizing Omega to reinforce the structural integrity field. The black, conical device Scotty found in engineering is in fact an Omega molecule reactor. Hence the higher speeds and nearly 300 year endurance to reach Andromeda, the Kelvan Empire's home galaxy. In another episode, the Enterprise was exploring an artificial planet when it's AI defense system called Losira damaged the matter antimatter integrator which allowed the engines to run wild and for a brief few seconds, the Enterprise hit Warp 14. Due to the Kalandan's transport beam displacing and reintegrating the entire ship nearly 1000 light years away.

Edit: These are canon sources. The dubious one is Star Trek, the Animated Series. They find a dying star with Commodore Robert April and his wife aboard, when a strange ship is diving towards the dying star, Enterprise tries to use a tractor beam to stop it, only to realize Kara Three, I think that was her name was travelling at Warp 32, not 22 and dragging the Enterprise at the same speed. I won't spoil the rest.

@@deathstrike Well,non canon whise starfleet might have been allowed to build 24 Federation class dreadnoughts..so just having 12-13 Constitutions overall would make even less sense :D...As Roddenberry clearly forgot after he started to believe his own propaganda..starfleet is military,and most militarys have more active cruisers than battleships...Unless you are germany in WWII of course...than you have NO really usable cruisers(Hipper class unreliable,Deutschland class being too slow to run away) alongside for a short time 4 rather reliable Battleships...

This is totally normal for anything quasi-military; Officers and enlisted have separate problems, different areas allow them to blow off steam without disrupting the work environment.

Last thing you want when complaining about the jackass commander while you eat lunch is the commander walking in with his lunch.

anulovlos I visited a friend on a military base open day they had a nasty mess hall for the grunts a bit nicer one for your SGTs etc and I got a peek at super posh officers bit.

Just to expound for other's knowledge, commissioned officers are generally better educated and are given more responsibility than their noncommissioned counterparts, and their junior enlisted subordinates. Enlisted crewmembers are around to do the work and be a technical expert in whatever they do, and thusly requiring a much smaller level of education than the officers. Officers are also a much smaller portion of the crew in a normal world. Star Trek for what I assume are story and budgetary reasons, have the same half dozen officers doing just about any/everything.

Malchera but Starfleet is all about everyone being equal so it's kind of hypocrisy to give the enlisted shittier accommodations

"USS Enterprise. NCC-1701, no bloody A, B, C orrrrr D."

After the Third season of TOS, the more they tried to improve it, the uglier (and less worthy of "suspension of disbelief") it became. The interiors looked more and more like the lobby of a Howard Johnson's and the Exteriors looked more like...well...the exteriors of a Howard Johnson's complete with Neon signage.

Well, @@Ricktpt1, since there were only three seasons of TOS, you must be speaking of the movies and subsequent series.

The refit Connie is probably my favorite Trek ship period.

Hoehner Tim must have been fun when the gravity generator conked out.

Star wars Episode 3 all over again.

Hudson Ball well more the other way around.

Hoehner Tim or what about those cheeky tv antenna masts/ladders that climb between decks and look like an OSHA nightmare

Faith and science are apparently incompatible concepts for the hipster generation.

Well, kinda unusual, given that in TOS and most of TNG, you never saw any non-commissioned ranks. Those enlisted mess halls, etc. must've been used for storage, or...something...

@@killersalmon4359 I'm thinking most of the red-shirts would have been enlisted... ;)

C'mon! You can't expect them being as good as Ship Builders from the Year 2010 (in Stargate)! At least THEY had Internet! The Federation has no Internet anymore!! So yeah, Humanity in Stargate is just smarter and better in every way. They also have more Heroes. Star Trek's Humanity only has Picard, Riker, Data, and some more.

It works the other way too - enlisted members and civilians need an area where they can blow off steam and grouse about officers out of the eyesight and hearing of officers.

Daniel Haire that makes sense rather than "just twelve" period. I found this from Memory Alpha, I had been trying to remember what TOS talked about concerning starships, and I remembered vaguely an article I read a long time ago. memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Case_of_Jonathan_Doe_Starship The Case of Jonathan Doe Starship was an article about starship registries, published in the fanzine T-Negative #27 of April, 1973 and written by Greg Jein as a "Trekkie", long before he became an official, long-serving, Star Trek studio modelbuilder. The article had apparently been circulating among fans for some time prior to that date, as it was sent in to the magazine by several people, including Jein himself, as a response to a reader question in an earlier issue of the magazine. With most of its contents adopted and elevated into canon by the Star Trek franchise, Jein's article became one of the very few, but most influential nonetheless, pieces of "fan fiction", to be adopted by the official franchise. www.trekplace.com/article10.html (Original article by Greg Jein)

The registries are supposedly out of order, but that was something of a personal theory by one production member. Franz Joseph did used 1700 range numbers in his Technical Manual, but then he added WAY too many in total, to about 50.

I'd have to check, but over the course of their career, about 50-60 Connies sounds about right for the final end numbers of the Constitution I class. Constitution II probably had similar before they started being retired. Remember that these were the principle heavy cruiser/explorer of the Federation during its time with the sole surviving ship of the class dieing at Wolf 359.

Depends on fleet size total, I guess. 30 also sounds reasonable.

Chris sonofPear what's funny is GR said the FZ registries and the Tech Manual were official at one time before they began to bicker about content.

that was one of the reasons for ST success, while other shows were had people flying around in rockets this had a ship. It had a bow, port and starboard, a bridge, a sickbay and engineering and a ship-to-shore shuttle. People could instantly relate to that.

There were 14 original Constitution Class Starships. 2 had been lost in episodes before Kirk says that their are only 12 in the fleet.

The number could also be related to the number of colonies that came together to form the United States and the Constitution. 12 ratified it more or less right away, a couple of others did within a few years. The carrier argument is interesting, but certainly they would have needed far more given the amount of space they had to patrol. However, some allies did have their own fleets which would have made up some of that need. The show probably didn't show the Constitutions working in battlegroups of other cruisers and destroyers because of the cost and difficulty at time of building and working with the models.

That seems Logical, as only 5 models of space ships were only ever shown on TOS. Still there were 14 names and the under modelers messed up the hull numbers creating that fiasco.

14 colonies eventually ratified the Constitution. Two of them did so a year or two after the 12 did. Some of the old technical books about the Original Series listed a few ship classes. These included scouts, destroyers, I think a cruiser class aside from the Constitution, and even a battleship class. Around the time the movies were coming out there was a tabletop starship combat game. That originally came with only a few ships statted out, but other books had many Federation ships, as well as other books for the Klingon and Romulans. It even had a system by which you could design custom ships for the game. Not sure if I still have that or not after all this time. Suffice it to say, the federation would have had more ships than just what was shown in the shows and movies. They would also have had to be in much larger numbers if only because of the long transit times.

In TNG religion is constantly attacked.. and Starfleet was supposed to make everyone equal..thus the light jab..I know that in real life it works that way

Anthony Dukes in port we do yes

You know, as dumb as federation bridge placement is, it's at least consistent. Plus they are borderline pacifists relatively speaking. What gets me is that klingon, romulan and Cardassian ships seem to create variations of the exact same vulerability! Where is the bridge on a bird of prey or vor'cha class? How about it's placement on a romulan warbird? It's almost like a universal rule that the command centre has to be in a vulnerable exterior location...

NIIIIIGHT CREEEEWWWW!! Beer me!

Donald camp pretty unlikely a submarine would have a dedicated chapel

I'm here for you..

I rather liked how in Star Trek New Visions "Mister Chekov" (a Star Trek photo comic) it was revealed that the "Bowling Alley" was actually a nickname for a very long corridor filled with sphere like high capacity batteries. Scotty found the nickname rather disrespectful.

It's a pretty awesome go kart.

Virginia Hansen your dead on in that statement. I had a commander get relief for cause in Iraq because being friends with enlisted soldiers was her priority over maintaining good order and discipline.

Mixing officers and enlisted men together was attempted during the French Revolution, in the early days of the USSR and in China post 1950. They very quickly realised that not having ranks and making military decisions by commitee didn't work. It's less about privilege for the sake of privilege and more about discipline and doing things in the most professional and efficient manner possible.

Well said. The sad sorry truth is that as a military commander (and even as an NCO) you may find yourself in a position where you must order them to certain death. You can respect your personnel, you can even like them, but you must never become too attached to them. They must be, unfortunately, expendable assets. As you, yourself, are. Comes with the job, and I never envied the Officers that responsibility.

Even in TNG where we see the bridge crew becoming friends, they still maintain a certain level of personal separation from each other and their discipline. Especially Picard. I think it gets brought up once in the show. The reason after the Borg, Picard had to go home to heal. Only in the privacy of his farm and family could he break down and show his weakness. Onboard ship, he has a certain image he must maintain to his crew.

In terms of warfare, a layout like a Battlestar would make the most sense since the most important parts(bridge, engineering, etc) would be in the deepest parts of the ship)

Yes, you are correct. However, I think they are all so reliant on shields that they don't bother. I think the Dominion ships are designed with a central bridge, but I can't think of any others in Trek.

Good point, except that the captain and department heads tend to stay on the bridge even during battle, even when the shields are down (seen several times), even when that place is getting wrecked (as seen in ST Nemesis). The only exception I can think of is the "battle bridge" in ST:TNG which is, you guessed it, right at the top of the battle section (faceplam). IRL, the bridge of a battleship (been to some) has an armored conning tower. Most of the bridge is unarmored, to save weight, except for the part of that tower running through it, where the captain and navigator have their battle stations. That part has a foot of steel between it and everything else. Newer warships than battleships have a CIC, which is sensibly in the middle of the ship. In short, ST is dumb about command functions.

We've seen ships with their shields down destroyed in one shot, and we've seen torpedoes rip straight through the whole ship. Plot shields are the only things that really protect anyone, but since most TOS firefights are face to face and slightly downwards, the bridge was probably very secure.

Yeah. Of course the writers are in charge of everything, and to your other point some of the filler detail in TWOK (right when they go to yellow alert) shows some extra protection for the bridge. I still think it's silly (in a solely practical sense, as Trek almost never shows this happening) to stay there versus one of the other 3 locations where those controls are duplicated and it's more secure.

The Constitutions were primarily made to be explorers. There likely wasn't a way to convert them into support roles or transports without gutting them and doing a second refit. Why make the attempt at that point when you have Mirandas and other ships already filling that role? The Excelsiors may well have been much more modular than the Constitution classes allowing them to be repurposed without a lot of time in spacedock.

There is no canonical information to tell us when all of the Constitutions were phased out. It's possible Starfleet was still laying down Constitution keels all the way til 2300, as escorts for the big new Excelsior battlewagons.

The writing was on the wall with the advent of the Excelsior. It was supposed to be heads and tails above the Constitution in every way. Look at the attitude guys at Starfleet Command gave to the Enterprise with 'the great experiment' berthed right beside her. When transwarp failed, there was likely some time needed to convert the Excelsior to a standard warp, drop the NX, and get hulls churning out. The Constitutions were likely kept around long enough to see this through then were decommissioned. The original Enterprise, pride of the Federation, had been relegated to a training ship. She was heavily damaged yet still functional, yet Starfleet decided to scrap her rather than effect repairs. This after she had just saved the Federation from the terror of a madman with a planet destroying weapon. The end of TUC pretty well spells this out by having the old Captain give a final farewell to the new, the old ship flying off into the sunset while the new went on to new adventures. And then we have the age of the Enterprise A. She was commissioned in 2286, meaning she was a keel-up construction rather than another refit. She was due to be retired only 7 years later in 2293. That's a VERY short lifespan for a starship. Given how long the original Enterprise served, it seems next to impossible that the A would function for less than a decade. The Stargazer was already being touted by Picard as rather rundown by 2333, 40 years after the decommissioning of the Enterprise A. She was also doing pretty much the same work as the Constitution Class. It therefore is pretty cut and dry that the Constellation Class was the replacement for the Constitution. All good things come to an end. The Big E of WWII fame was eventually sold for scrap instead of even getting the recognition of being preserved as a museum. That doesn't mean that Enterprise wasn't a great carrier or crucial to the efforts in the Pacific. But like Star Trek's Enterprise she was outclassed by newer vessels and her obsolescence resulted in her being taken out of action.

Glad you enjoy

That's pretty much my thinking. Rather like the current Los Angeles class submarines have 3 separate 'flights', but are all the same class.

or that is the inital production run of the class then they more.

Which fits nicely with what I said. :P

Years ago, I had a plastic model kit of the Constitution class. There were 12 hull numbers you could put onto it.

Oh God, nerd sniped again. The Starfleet Technical manual by Franz Joseph had 14 in the original Constitution class (which would fit Kirk's 12 if one or two were lost at that point), but also a bunch of other classes of heavy cruisers, a couple of hundred ships in total IIRC. This would also fit fairly well with MSGTTE stating that the ships would be constructed at "4 per year" if the ships were produced from the 2240's through the 2280's.

You'd think that a way to non-lethally take out large groups of people on a planetside would be at the forefront of TNG's tactics.

You would, wouldn't you. But TNG was somewhat...stupid about a lot of stuff, especially in the early seasons. I could honestly have seen it coming back in DS9, but we only ever saw destructive planetary bombardments in that show.

canisblack yea like Riker saying combat is a small province of a starship Captain’s duty so why prepare by doing drills. Smh. Reason so much stupidity was there because of Roddenberry dreamworld.

TOS and the TOS era movies didn't have Rodenberry in creative control. It's why Starfleet there was much more militaristic. When talking about Trek you do have to keep in mind that there are three distinct eras: TOS through Motion Picture. Star Trek II through Star Trek VI and TNG. There's some overlap in these eras, but for the most part they are very different in terms of how Starfleet is approached and portrayed. TOS I think is the most balanced. Starfleet is a combined defensive and exploratory arm. They're keenly aware that the galaxy is neither nice nor safe, but they're still determined to go out and explore peacefully...if they can. TOS Movies (2-6) has a much more militaristic Starfleet which, given the way the Klingons are saber rattling, makes sense. Finally you have TNG where Rodenberry went fully commie ham with no one to reign him in. DS9 and Voyager are both set in the TNG-era and show it. Even in the Dominion War-arc I still recall the "Starfleet isn't a military" rhetoric being alluded to if not stated outright.

When was there a slushie machine?

How many carriers does the US Navy operate? Those are the centerpieces of their organization, yet their numbers are dwarfed by the destroyers, cruisers, and submarines that do most of the work beyond saber rattling. Similarly, the Constitutions could easily be the face of the Federation exploration but there could be thousands upon thousands of ships used for patrol, transport, and other tasks milling throughout Federation space.

flyboymb The Enterprise was the heavy cruiser of its day. Not the carrier.

The function of the ship is not the point, the strategic limitations on the number of those ships is. If the carrier is the most powerful ship in the world right now, why not make all navies nothing but carriers? Logistics and money aside, it is because the carrier is way too much ship to use for a solo patrol of the Caribbean and if you park one in the Persian Gulf, it will cause a lot more stink than a frigate or destroyer. Similarly, you're not going to put a Constitution on a patrol run of trade routes that haven't been hit by Orions in 3 years. And if you put one on the border of the Neutral Zone, you can expect that the Romulans would increase their force by at least an equal amount and the situation is that much more tense. It therefore makes sense to have a large number of smaller ships to do the small work and stand guard while you have relatively few capital ships to do the heavy lifting and carry the large sticks. This also allows you to have a larger and more robust fleet. If the resources, crew, and construction time to create a Constitution could be used to make 2 Saladins, you now have the ability to be in 2 places at once and the enemy destroys a ship, you have a 2nd still flying. Even if a Saladin was just heavily damaged, it would likely take less time to repair than a Constitution resulting in an overall stronger fleet during a war. It's the same reason the Death Star was a horrible idea for the Empire. No matter how powerful a ship is, the risk of having all your eggs in one basket just isn't worth it.

They did, as the retcon of Disco shows, along with NAR and other older ships.

@@kyle857 You'll notice that outside of the Star Fleet Universe game series, there are no carriers, or X-Wing or Viper analogues in Star Trek. At the moment, when the US government wants to swing it's dick around, it sends a carrier group. When Star Fleet needs to show it's swinging dick(in TOS era, anyway), that's when the Constitution class rocks up in a system. It's about escalation. The only way to up the stakes when you've deployed a full carrier group is to deploy another. Same thing with Enterprise.

I was reminded of an episode in which they "extend the shields" to provide cover for another ship

Likely the bubble shields require more power to sustain. The episode mentioned by Brian had the Enterprise blowing out their power system maintaining their shields at that distance. It could be that the old style deflectors were a step up from the polarized hull plating of early Earth ships in that local emitters projected a localized field right above the hull instead of some central emitter making the bubble. TWOK and TSFS showed numerous small dots lining the ship. If these represented the individual segments covered by the emitters, then it would be more akin to stronger versions of the navigational deflector than TNG shields. While this would allow more bleed through from hits (TNG still has plenty of sparks flying though), it would be easier to cover down on a small gap from a destroyed emitter than for the whole shield system to fail if the bubble producing emitter was knocked out.

I think it's got BOTH. The bubble is the main deflector system, the shields close to the hull are not only a second line of defense but also help maintain structural integrity and keep the air in if the hull gets any sort of leaks (or big holes!). It may be those secondary shields are an evolution of the earlier polizerized plating.

IIRC, impulse drive can achieve very high sublight speeds, up to near lightspeed, but is capped at 25% lightspeed to avoid relativistic effects

Thanks for the info!

See my post concerning the speed factor.

Just to help those who just don't feel like looking it up. The speed of light which as stated above is warp 1 is often estimated to be about 300,000,000 meters per second. Or To be specific 299,792,458 meters per second. This translates into 186,000 miles per second. ( It also travels 173 air per day or 1 foot per nanosecond. ) So going warp 0.8 would be about 240,000 km/s or 148,000 mi/s

No. Warp factor 1 is about 1 1/2 to 2 times the speed of light. Depends on your engine.

glad you enjoyed

Did Gene Roddenberry make the Command colours red in TNG and Voyager just to symbolize the captains in the newer age probably never would have survived back in the TOS era?

We360 that is a good question. I hadn't considered that

No. It is because they realized that the red shirts had the highest % of survivors. Outside the main cast who had plot armor that made them immortal, red shirts had the best odds of surviving and gold had the worst.

Gold shirts represent command, including piloting and navigation. Blue shirts are for science officer. This includes medics, who are technically biological-scientists. Red shirts are engineering. This included security, as they had to be familiar with demolitions. It also included communications, which is why Uhura wore red. BTW: Since the Gelato machine would need regular maintenance, the person running it would in fact be a red-shirt.

Amanda Harper I know we see Excelsior class ships a LOT in NG, but with a hazy "could be" a Constitution class ship at Wolfe 359, when do we see any Connie's? IDR any.

I have a vague memory of seeing one in Sacrifice of Angels, but I could be mistaken.

Ex Astris Scientia shows seperate saucer and secondary hull wreckage at Wolf 359 in screencaps. Would be to the left of the image shown on the video. DS9 showed kitbashed designs, including a Constitution saucer and neck connected to two close together nacelles.

Chris sonofPear an article on EAS about Wolfe 359 claims the Constitution class ship debris is from the studio model from The Search for Spock. www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm (Way down the page under "Status of Identification")

It could be that long range ships like the Constitution just weren't overly necessary in a resource rich institution like the Federation. You have your warships on the border of the Neutral Zone and various support fleets centered around major planets. Not every heavy cruiser has to be able to take on a 5 year mission to go out into uncharted space with minimal support. Perhaps the Constitutions were Starfleet's first steps into making massive jumps in space exploration and so not many of them were made?

Couple of reasons, they could be willing to fight CBS when I'm not currently in a position to. They could also have a special status through a network that bypasses the content ID system

I know Ex Astris broke it down - but to that detail, i don't know..

Here’s a pdf of the ship listing page from the original Star Fleet Technical Manual released in 1975: www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sftm/heavy-cruiser.jpg It was created by Franz Joseph but it doesn’t quite jive with TOS. The Defiant from The Tholian Web isn’t listed (though it lists a ‘Defiance’ as a latter built ship). The Valiant from the pilot wasn’t supposed to be a Constitution class. Most of all it lists the original group of Constitution class as consisting of 14 ships, not 12..

Depends on the ship. The US Ohio class and British Vanquish class have a Ward Room for the officers and two mess decks; one for the senior ratings (Petty Officer and above) and one for the junior ratings. Generally, only smaller vessels will have a Ward Room and one mess deck. I've never been on the floating cities that Americans use as aircraft carriers, but I imagine they have even more mess decks (I heard rumours that they have McDonalds and a Wal-Mart), and possibly multiple Ward Rooms segregated by rank.

I remember that as one of the perks of serving on Alert status when I was in SAC... the chow hall had to be up to Officer's standards... the food was so good the Wing Commander usually had breakfast there. :D

Gigas0101 or maybe the number mentioned is the active ones while the other Constitutions are in reserve, just literally parked with caretaker crews all across the Federation because "don't want to look war like with all these advanced, heavily armed ships running about".

I don't really see any way there could only be twelve unless they were somehow difficult to construct compared to others. The fleet could've been comprised of many easier to build and crew ships and the Connie's were more resource intensive or demanded too high a crew complement. In some ways the Connie was almost as much a failure as the Galaxy Class would later be considering they destroyed or lost at least 4 during the TOS run. I know off the top of my head the Constellation, Intrepid, Exeter, and Defiant were lost during those three years. That's 1/3 of all the Connie's. Another was implied to be lost in The Ultimate Computer but I interpreted that one as just being severely damaged but salvageable.

The Connie seems more believable than the Galaxy class... I'm so taken aback by that statement I don't even know where to start. No. Just... no.

TJ347 maybe referencing the bringing the families with children situation.

4 Connies lost in 3 years is faster than they went through Galaxy Class ships.

Oh thank god, I thought this whole shebang was going to burn to the ground.. thank god you've come to educate me - being the natural idiot that i am.

Not an idiot, only some mistakes. For example, based on the Star Fleet Technical Manual from the 1970s, there are three appropriations of Constitution Class Starships. Appropriations 2 and 3 had more than 13 each. There are a few others, but understand, we all have mistakes.

The Technical manual, unfortunately, is not considered canon - though i would like to get that back in its original form - because i think it has some great insight.

YAYAYAYAY

Ardy Head got custard? Souix did.

Hudson Ball the chapel is on the ship because even 250 years in the future religion exists. I’m sure even some alien ambassadors occasionally use the chapel for their own religious needs. Of course Klingons have no need for a chapel since they killed their God’s long ago. Earth’s gods ended up all being aliens themselves (even ‘God’ himself in the fifth movie) so the Klingons may have literally killed their gods in the distant past.

I like EckhartsLadder :D I do try to stay Alpha Canon or make it abundantly clear I'm looking at other sources if I'm not.. It seems the best way to stay consistent.

I like Eckhart's Ladder for non-Star Wars Sci-Fi. But *everything* Star Wars they do is Legends now, which has no relevance to the modern canon.

Sure does, given how much is still BORROWED from Legends. With canon, I notice a LOT of ships are being resized almost arbitrarily, mostly the TIE Fighters. A lot of the new ones seem to come from some model-making book for kids, rather than actual set details and film crew notes.

Quoting the bible isnt relevant.. I dont have an issue with it.. the writers of tng do..which I was highlighting.

The top reason TOS is my favorite Star Trek.

glad to have you back ;) And no big deal man, just glad we can interact and such

Originally, the engineering room was supposed to be at the back of the saucer, but the episode 'Day of the Dove' implied it was in the middle of lower hull.

"Engineering" is in both places, according to the FJ plans and MSGTTE. The original set was implied to be near the impulse engine, but that was changed later during The Original Series because Gene wanted those functions to be more below deck. It makes sense to me that there would be two rooms anyway, one near each engine. The "intermix tube" in TMP through TSFS runs vertically from the dome on the impulse engine all the way down through the secondary hull (implied to nearly the bottom, where the fuel is also implied to be) and horizontally straight back from there at the top of the secondary hull to where it breaks off into the pylons and presumably to the warp engines, this is visible in TMP and TWOK, and you can infer exactly that's at the top of the secondary hull by the curvature of the ceiling. Quite a beautiful set. In ST VI they used the set from TNG, so that's a bit fuzzier for the Enterprise-A. Through most of the secondary hull-ish? Maybe? no plans were given.

The "Warp Core" was a next generation creation. A stupid one in opinion. Now it's the catch all, eject the warp core.

Incorrect. It is explicitly visible in ST TMP, a decade before. Again in ST:TWOK, using the same sets but a few years later. Interestingly, "warp core breach!" and "eject the warp core" hadn't happened in either movie. In both cases there were enough (writer unbreeched) fail safes that neither seemed to even be an idea. Instead of exploding the ship, Scotty turned off the warp engines. Twice in TWOK. "Warp core" problems where they couldn't do something like, I don't know, turn off the engine, or in extreme cases, physically cut off the one-millionth-of-a-second-of-fuel-in-the-engine are too much for the thousand or so people on board..."FIve minutes 'till a warp core breach, nothing I can do!" *(ST-Generations) Of course, there is eject the antimatter. Explicitly available option, per the ST:TNG technical manual. Nor was ejecting the core entirely (which would include the remaining antimatter fuel of the ship). So, it becomes "I can eject this whole motherfucker in a second and a half, but somehow I can't, but you've got five minutes or so ish to contemplate your lives and my incompetence with no explanation!" Yeah, call MST3K on it if you want, except that I thought that very thing WHEN I FIRST SAW IT IN THE THEATRE. AS GEORDI WAY SAYING IT And, for the writers, I can think of half a dozen ways to accomplish the same result without that kind of stupidity. It struck the same nerve in me that the rocket boots to deck ninety-fucktheplans had in ST-V.But I digress. No, do not credit TNG with the one vaguely interesting tech idea that you think they might have had. It was way earlier. And very much more well considered. I have very similar problems with speed II. Is there someone with an engineering degree out there? or (not to diminish engineering degrees) experience as a mechanic? or (not to diminish experience) any knowledge of how engines work AT ALL?!?! I"m an IT guy, Give me a wrench and a minute and I'll stop the fuck out of your engine, computer controlled or not. There are many with this superpower, and I would suggest that those in charge of said engine could do the same.... see what I'm saying?

Kirk lists them off in one episode; tubes 1, 3 & 5 then 2, 4, 6.

The number was clearly modeled on submarine torpedo tube counts.

Supposedly 4 on the upper saucer and two on the lower. the Defiant had an aft tube also.

As I remember my stats, the Connie had 4 forward facing tubes, not 6. As well as either 4 or 6 phaser banks. I think each two nozzles counted as one bank.

Glad you liked it

I honestly didn't realize how 'salty' it was till folks pointed it out

We all have those days :)

It was my understanding that the Enterprise and the Lexington were the only ones of the original Constitution-class line to make it back to Earth under their own power, while all the others were either destroyed, or crippled beyond repair (or lost, in the case of the Defiant). Hence why future ships with both names got letter designations with the old registry numbers instead of new registry numbers.

Brian Webber Yeah but im curious where that was mentioned in alpha canon though.

I'm pretty sure the A is supposed to be the Yorktown, but renamed. The thing is, between TOS and the late TMP era, we see only Mirandas and Oberths. This leads me to believe that Starfleet dropped the heavy cruiser concept for a while in favour of Mirandas. Either that, or they kept making more Connies. They certainly didn't do another design.

I think it was in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, a licensed book that the Okudas worked on with Paramount's approval, but I lost my copy when I last moved.

The Yorktown thing was Gene's idea for that, but Shatner ignored it for Star Trek V. :/ I think we all know how well THAT turned out. I'm not usually one to hold Gene's ideas as sacrosanct, as my occasional clashes with Discovery haters shows, but that doesn't mean I never stand up for the man's ideas. Especially the ones that aren't stupid.

All the ships listed on TOS besides the Antares, Valiant and Carolina basically. The Republic and the Eagle do not have to be of the same class though, being unseen.

Don't forget the Constellation, Intrepid, and Potemkin!

Yes. Considering that at one point during the first season of TOS, 'Dilithium' was the 'fuel' for the ship but that later evolved and changed as they figured out how the engines were supposed to work. At best I think we can assume that the powerplant, wasn't a separate reactor as we see in other iterations, but an integral part of the ship structure at that point.

glad you enjoyed and welcome!

Theists are cognitive crack addicts via the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* and a living testimony to it's power (evolutionary treadmill).

He doesn't even understand how Shields work so what do you expect

@@bleirdo_dude says the guy with a literal puppet as his Avatar

Well might want to do more research before you make yourself look silly

@@LoreReloaded research what exactly, its a statement about your tone in this video

@@Kenny4AG my videos

glad you enjoyed

Mistakes and inconsistencies are my bain!

glad you enjoy