The Enterprise not being in the Dominiom War is probably the same as why Pike's Enterprise was left on the sidelines during the Klingon War: Last line of defense

Picard has been shown to suffer from PTSD at this point. They're not putting him on the front lines of a war. Not to mention, he's one of their best diplomats, so if they need to quickly recruit more planets into the Federation, that's exactly where he and the famed flagship should be, to win or woo them over asap.

Worf randomly showing up without much explanation was the writers intentionally saying to audiences... you guys probably don't care THAT MUCH how or why Worf is here... he just has to be here because it's Worf and he is strongly associated with this crew

This movie was an extended episode of the series with a better budget....

Over the last the years, I've come to think that "Insurrection' could've easily been re-tooled as the Liberation of Betazed. We get an action-packed movie with solid lore connections and actual stakes, that complements DS9 but doesn't cheapen it, Lwaxana Troi could've returned (leading a underground resistance), the Enterprise would get to flex it's stuff, and you can't tell me F. Murray Abraham wouldn't make a good vorta.

Everyone's fleets were crumbling in this time due to massive losses during the dominion war. Except for the Romulans. They avoided the scale and scope of military losses that the federation and the Klingons experienced. I'd make a joke about how section 31 in ds9 was looking at Romulus as the next big threat and link that to JJ trek but through star trek online we know the destruction of Romulus really was an inside job.

I feel like The federation might not have gotten the Sovereign class involved because of how high tech and new it was. If it got captured somehow, that would potentially leak secrets to their enemies and if it was destroyed, that would be a phenomenally devastating blow to federation morale. Also the jokes weren't THAT bad, besides, if I was a little nervous about a meeting that might affect the federation's relationship with a new species drastically, i would probably crack shitty jokes too. :p

About the cloak not being used for military applications, it might be that "observation cloaks" only allow for a limited form of invisibility. After all like at 3:10 it's clear tech able to see trough them exists, and is not even that bulky or complex, so they aren't really of any advantage when dealing with other technologically adept factions.

I am beginning to believe in Star Trek: Picard Starfleet became corrupt.

wonder why nobody knew about Worf coming around. No ship meetup, no permission to get onboard asked for, not even Riker as XO... it looks like he just appeared right behind the corner ;P

Subzero: ethical and moral subroutines… activated. Starfleet: ah crap...

When they blew the Defiant up, it killed morale in the fleet. If they didn't keep the Enterprise away before then, they sure would've after. It's a huge target. And let's not forget the Odyssey. A Galaxy class, top of the line for the time. The Dominion aren't afraid to sacrifice bug ships for easy wins.

In Disco, it was revealed the Enterprise 1701 was kept out of the fighting during the Klingon War (Beta cannon says the Enterprise was basically fighting a one ship war in a star cluster). I think it makes sense that the Enterprise is not on the frontlines for two reasons. 1. It would be a massive target on the frontlines. 2. The Enterprise-E is powerful enough to basically fill in for the rest of Starfleet on the exploration and diplomacy missions while they're off fighting the war without the risk of them getting overwhelmed in a fight.

In my head canon this one takes place just after the end of the Dominion War. Worf is tying up loose ends and doing some last jobs for Starfleet before heading to Kronos, the Federation is trying to replenish its ranks with new members now that it has some breathing room, and working with the Son'a (who are at one point in DS9 named as an official ally of the Dominion) which gives Starfleet some real 'US gov't working with Nazi scientists while WWII was barely over' kind of vibes, which I think fits with your whole outlook.

Hey Lore Reloaded, Love you!

Star Trek Insurrection - It's like that one night stand you want to forget about.

Great work as always Lore!

I align with a lot of this video, thanks for making it!

At the point of the opening nobody knew they were rejecting tech as far as we knew they were a less developed culture

People often over look the fact that the Federation , has these kind of colony’s

The whole movie just feels like a overly long TNG episode, where nothing really happens that effects the overall trek universe.

As someone who used to play the violin, it absolutely jars my strings when actors depict violinists playing on the fingerboard rather than by the bridge. It shows that even after so many years, directors and actors don't know to ask the simple question: where do bow? Just a small detail.

Thank you for the mortal combat bit it have me a much needed laugh!

Lore: "something that has han solo in it is not startrek" Thadiun Okona: "am i a joke to you?" trekkies everywhere: "well........"

Damn bro I need one of those 7 hour epics you been putting out!!!

Humor is always so subjective. I actually enjoyed it in this scene. Though one thought I only just hit on; the Dominion has shown an ability to hit behind Starfleet lines. So as flawed as the thinking may be, you may want to send your biggest, strongest ships on "simple" diplomatic missions like this for safety. If the Dominion attack, they're much more likely to survive that ambush without a large escort that could make such missions far more difficult. Just look at the DS9 episode "Starship Down". I'm the first to admit it's no where near the same, but I'd argue it's an example of how/where the thinking could have come from. Not saying it's a good reason, but it's a thought none the less. Oh, and they're not using a "cloak" in the traditional sense. At least not for this. It's a holo-projection system. I doubt it would hide from even sensors we use today. But for a pre-industrial civilization? Totally works. Though I've often wondered; no one notices footprints in the dirt? The sound of footsteps? No one ever runs into one of the researchers?

Nice a good vid as always to enjoy on me brake

5:03 Did anyone else notice the observation post was two filing cabinets with shelving inbetween?

Another great video, keep it up! I have noticed with videos that copywrite trolls mark there are no ads. When played there were ads so no trolls yet. Always enjoy your videos!

"We don't want technology." "Alrighty, hand over your hammers, hoes, plows, anything that uses wheels or pulleys, and forges and we'll help you on your way to using no technology."

The Enterprise-E has been repeatedly refereed to in canon and alternative media as the "Federation Flagship" and is also the lead ship of her class as far as I'm aware. In 20th century navies it was very common for such ships to be used for statecraft and diplomatic liasons - Its power and presence can be used to make lesser nations awestruck, and in cases where you have allies re-assure them that despite tensions in the area powerful assets are still on hand and can be spared for their sector With the timing of the movie, I would pose that this is likely some time immediately before the Romulan entry in the war - with the Enterprise intentionally doing tours in regions with limited presence like HMS Hood did around Africa Its simple presence sends a message to the Romulans not to interfere with an area as the Federation is interested in the region

Part of me wondered if it was cause with the Enterprise E being the flagship of Starfleet, they knew if it was lost the morale of the fleet would be crippled along with that PR thing you mentioned so it was kept off the frontlines.

Star Trek :Insurrection i thought it was bad until Alex Kurtzman Trek came around. After Picard TNG Season 1 and this have become decent.

Bro, you just said “idyllistic” instead of “idyllic” just to get me to comment to correct your spelling. Well played. 😎

“That is.. Not the best...” - I mean, that’s one way to put it

Dear Mr. Lore, you are a genius. This is so perfect and I love the way of your analysis! This movie is forever different to me. I enjoy connections between this video and the one(s) studying the results of the Dominion war. I see the federation in this time as more akin the DS9 and I can almost hear the words of Quark describing the savage humans.

As Nostalgia Critic so eliquently put it "Thanks for saving us with your technology by the way we hate technology."

Regarding your opening points about technology: Yes, I completely agree that the scene, well in fact the whole setting of the movie, is a not very subtle manipulation about "the good old days" and how everything was better then than now. But I think there is also a very clever point made here: Star Trek is an utopian setting where technology has advanced humanity to the point where human work isn't required anymore. Computers, machines and robots are capable of running everything. Heck, even without them the replicator technology alone would provide humanity with everything they need. The Ba'ku not decided to get rid of technology but they choose the limit it to the kind of technology that helps us, that advance our capability. They banned the kind of technology that made us obsolete. I think this a very clever commentary on the questions that our society will face very soon. I' m looking forward to the answers we will find to this questions..

The issue I am waiting to be explained is the relationship between this story and that of the Son'a working with the Dominion to make ketracel white near the end of the Dominion War (DS9 "Penumbra")

I'm guessing the 'cloaking devices' used by the observers only work with visible light (I mean, in Trek this probably means human visible plus IR and UV), so they get around the Treaty of Algeron by simply doing nothing to hide the user from passive sensors in any other part of the EM spectrum.

Don’t you think the Baku’s penchant for Artisinal living coupled with their longer timeframes due to slow aging explains the superior cultivation of their environment? Also i got the impression they have tech it’s just hidden away or integrated into their living seamlessly.

5:04 That's the stuff.

My favorite scene was probably Worf going through puberty once more and Data giving him tips.

The RLM browns and beige reference.... nice lol.

Federation cloaking devices? Doesn't that violate the Treaty of Algeron or something?

Ok, off topic I know, this is going to be a long one. The last few days I have decided to let the geek out of his box, Anyway I think that I have fixed the Borg (head canon only) this explains the reason why the Borg went from a terrifying unstoppable force into a shadow of their former selves and were able to be defeated and also may help the whole "Borg farming earth theory". So we start with Q throwing the Enterprise into system J-25 into the path of the first Borg cube, at this point the Borg are exactly as described by Guinan in other words they are only interested in technology not people, anyway they encounter the enterprise and would have probably just assimilated the ship and crew and left it at that, but Q decided to save the enterprise and sends it back home, but from the Borgs point of view the ship just up and Disappeared right in front of them, and at this point they have already "sampled" the ship and crew and found nothing that could cause the enterprise to disappear, so start heading for earth. skip to about two years later and the Borg reach federation space and assimilate the colony on New Providence where they find nothing that helps explain why the enterprise disappeared in front of them, so they start to think about how the answer may be found in human physiology so they assimilate the highest ranking person in the colony (a mayor or governor maybe) and give her the ability to speak for and control the Borg, but still find no answers, so they head further into federation space and encounter the enterprise again where its decided that they will create a counterpart for the now Borg Queen and thus assimilate Picard and create Locutus, given the level of individuality that they allowed to remain in the Borg queen introduces human ego into the Borg collective and this obviously causes the collective to start making mistakes and ends up with a severely weakened Borg to encounter Voyager and this brings In their downfall.

I feel like Insurrection and the internal politics is similar to America today. It's a fascinating essay opportunity. I look forward to watching your views.

New series... I recently rewatched the movie and I didn't think it was half as bad as I considered it to be in my memory 😅

1:30 I would attribute the pristine clothes issue to a costuming oversight.

My beef with this movie is the premise basically. The federation is dying and billions of lives are at stake. Here he has the opportunity to move people without harming them and save billions. Isn't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few a thing in star trek? What makes this worse is in TNG picard didn't seem to have an issue with literally relocating native americans (for lack of a better term). Oh the hypocrisy. I understand the ends do not justify the means. The reason they don't is you can't determine the ends when the means are selected. The stakes are what justify the means. Saving billions justifies forced relocating people. I know that sounds so not PC of me to say. But I'm right. Picard asks for a number. How many does it take? I don't know the line. But exercising your sovereign authority over your land as a government to save billions without causing bodily or monetary harm to hundreds is on the right side of wherever that line is. In this movie picard is the bad guy and he wins.

The DS9 Episode "Paradise" did the rejecting technology theme the best. It outlined the hypocrisy that they use technology to create a eutopia, then abandon it, as well as using technology to quell technology.

The blacksmith doesn't even break a sweat.

Pet theory on the why sovereign E. was being used for diplomatic instead of Frontline deployment. 1] is mostly morale. If they deployed this ship into battles that are known to find down while fleets into 20% casualty and lose her the damage to morale could be huge. A real world example is the Japanese giant battleship ijn Yamato was berthed in Tokyo Bay for much of the war until deployed near the last months of of desperation. 2] others have pointed out that the trch may be too brand new and dangerous to fall into enemy hands at this point of the war. 3] this late in the war the breen weapon may still be in play and there just wasn't any mentions of the Dominion war deployment of the Big E are subdued or very vague. [Not my strongest point, I think I missed dialogue mentioning this in the video] 4] the big E is being held in reserve because of both the breen season AND in case there needs to be a reactionary emergency force from some other incursion like the borg or Another breen attack on earth. Always close enough to be near earth or the core systems within hours to shore up the defensive fleet or take command of the emergency support fleet as the ships stream in all hiddely piddely.

All the highly experienced officers may have been on those Mirandas or Galaxy classes that got blown up fighting the Dominion. Perhaps in this regard Starfleet did some soul searching and mobilized into a wartime entity, lowering standards for officers and sending them to the front line while keeping veterans (Such as Picard and his crew) to do necessary but delicate work that would be blundered by other, inexperienced crews.

I have read in a Star trek Forum is that reason. The Enterprise E was not in the Dominion War was because it would be essentially have a Huge Target painted on its Hull. Since it is the Enterprise and a Sovereign Class Starship.

The out post could of been pre constructed and transported down during the night, as for the enterprise E the ship might of been brand new fresh off the shipyards and going though shakedowns to see if there was any errors in assembly, or bugs in the computer you just don't build a new ship and push it off to war especially not a new design.

You may critizise this scene with the staff doing all these bad puns, but honestly, that's exactly how I would expect the most experienced staff to act in such a situation. You may see them as officials and experienced officers, but funny enough all of these are long-time friends at the same time and these bad puns, honestly, in my peer we do them all the time, especially when there's stress up ahead or we're in the middle. This scene is brilliant for what it is, as it is just... normal. Another, simple reason for ships being held back during wartime is, well, there are other enemies around. Having relatively poweful ships patroling as usual and answering to events could be nothing but a show of force to such potential enemies, which are likely to take advantage of an all-out war. This may sound strange, but specifically rather independent ships with crisis-experienced crews may be perfect for this kind of assignment. As they could handle situations without consulting with the council, which is occupied with the whole Dominion affair. This, obviously, is out of the ordinary for the Federation, but we know that the Dominion war has changed the Federation deeply. And we don't just know it from ST:Picard, but it already was a topic for DS9. Sure, the Federation had faced enemies before, Klingons and Romulans and even the Borg, yet the Borg-Conflict does not really fit the description of "war" in a traditional way. And, as established, the Borg always do the minimum. The Dominion on the other hand is a a "control through power"-faction. They sent in the amount needed to end a conflict quickly if necessary. And they did something that hasn't occured for a long time. They attacked earth. Sure, the Borg tried the same, but the Borg failed, though the victory was costly, but importantly, the attack failed. The Breen were successful. I urge you to play stellaris against a normal player and then during a war launch a suprise attack against his homeworld. Even if that world is neither politically or economically important, most people will react to it in a rush. And they if they repell the enemy force, they will endure high costs to prevent such a event from happening again. And Earth is the core of the Federation, as it was said during DS9, Earth is the Federations problem. A paradise world on which nothing seem to go wrong. It would be logical to assume that the war and especially the attack on Earth and the following devastation would change priorities within certain aspects of the Federation, and these changes could, in the long run, very much be for the worse.

Given that the Sona are mentioned as producing ketra kel white for the dominion in DS9 episode Penumbra and need help protecting it from the federation that would indicate that Insurrection happened sometime before said episode timeline wise.

I know this video is old but a interesting idea was about a serie about the federation and how is in decay and the new powers are a new revitalize Klingon Empire and the Ferengi Alliance

We need more clips of the enterprise crew walking in the corridors! 😜

Honestly. Keeping your most famed and prized and arguably most powerful ship away from enemy lines is not completly unheard of in human history. The famous Yamato while saw combat action many times during the war, was largely kept at port not only because it was very resource consuming to keep that beast running but due to overall morale back home. Basically as long as Yamato was home everything is fine because we don't need to use this massive beast. Aka it is not the time for the boss to stand up form his chair and grab his sword to cut down the enemy...yet. SO keeping the enterprise relatively safe and away from the bulk of the fighting is not illogical.

I had always been under the impression that Insurrection took place not too long after the Dominion War and Picard's diplomatic tango with a new species was Starfleet fast tracking new membership to rebuild what had already been lost. Not ad a means to gain more bodies and resources to end the Dominion War. Starfleet holding back not just the Enterprise but what seems like all of their Sovereign class ships was cautionary. I believe it was literally their newest line of ship that they probably didn't want to hand over to the Dominion by making it a priority target on the frontlines.

I'd already liked the vid BEFORE you hit us with the MORTAL KOMBAT music!

Speaking of RLM have you seen their top 20 or whatever they're up to now trek episodes videos? Listening to Mike and Rich chat makes me think about how awesome it would be for you to chat with them sometime.

its you i like there is no person in the world like you and i like you just the way you are you made this day a special day by just you being you and the best person you can ever be is your honest self! as jon luc picard says warp drive engage!

If this is during the war, how is the UFP allied w the So'na who were producers of Ketracel White? That would not make sense as much as a project Paperclip alliance after the fact.

I always had the sensation, by the dialogue, that this movie happened in some point before the Dominion War started, not in the war itself.

"...ain't no one winning an Oscar for the JC Penny spring fashion look..." 😆 -- Mr Plinkett, @redlettermedia

Is Starfleet Crumbling? Looking at Picard and Lower Decks, both of which offer different looks at different aspects of the Federation, both of which are pretty grim, I'd say that this movie does show signs that the Federation is fraying around the edges, something also hinted at in DS9. It fits with a very important aspect of humanity, the cycle of empires. Growth, golden age, decay, and then a collapse into the Long Night.

I heard that they cut some dialog in scene where Worf shows up, about congratulating him on his wedding (that none of them bothered to attend) and the reason for that cut is because of messy timing...this movie takes place while Worf is still married to Jadzia - BUT, the movie itself wouldn't be in theaters until after the episode with Jadzia's murder aired on TV. Might have been nice to have SOME mention of it. Like, Troi telling Worf, on the down low, that she is sorry for his loss, and if he needs to talk, anytime, her door is always open. Maybe *encouraging* him to come see her. Or if they didn't want to go there, just a "We are so sorry we miss your wedding, we were all very excited to attend, but as you know the Dominion...blah...blah...and we had to...blah...blah..." Maybe they could tie it to the occupation of Bajor. Like the Enterprise having to protect a refuge convoy from Betazed. As for HOW Worf got there...Imma say that he used one of DS9's three mini starships - aka "Runabouts". Plenty of room in either of the Enterprise E's massive shuttle bays.

You know for the timeline, trying to figure out when this is. Didn't the Sona ships start showing up with the Breen and Cardassian ships in combined fleets? So this movie is probably set not long before those episodes. Specifically Weyoun mentions the So'na in Penumbra, so probably around that episode.

What is the difference between Starfleet members and Starfleet protectorates? I think the Bajor wanted to join the federation and not become only a protected area of unknown level of bilateral influence.

What Ive heard the official lore stated that the Sovereigns and other high tech ships were held back from the frontlines as to have a battlegroup ready for any Borg incursions

Don't forget the conversations with Dougherty and the Son'a!

I thought this was set after the Dominion war, I mean, I remember them saying that the people they're negotiating with here were part of the Ketracel white production in the alpha quadrant. (Which is a little odd that it sticks in my mind, because the first time I Saw the movie, I hadn't seen DS9 yet) However... Worf is here... At the end of the Dominion war, didn't he kinda retire from starfleet and become the federation ambassador to Q'nos? if that's the case, why would be be on the enterprise? Likewise, if it was during the war, wouldn't he be on the Defiant? He was on the Defiant during the First Contact movie, so that was set during the Dominion war... I guess, to me, This movie makes sense to be taking place immediately following (Within a year or two) of the Dominion war.

I thought they said in the movie that the doninion negotiations were ongoing That to me and made me think that dominion war was over

It definitely takes places in the final days of the dominion war. In the first episode of the final ten episode countdown of DS9, weyoun mentions the Sona allying with the Dominion right before the breen alliance.

The Enterprise was also first and foremost a diplomatic ship, which is why it's basically a luxury liner, a luxury liner that fight. Having it still perform missions of alliance building during war time still makes some sense. Although it might not be the best use of it.

This movie really clashes with the fact that the Dominion War is, well, happening. But it reeks of the Starfleet admirality we saw in DS9's Paradise Lost.

Considering what happened to the Odyssey it would not surprise me that Starfleet keeps their flagship away from trouble as a loss would be a massive hit to the fleet's moral. Diminishing moral being a significant problem is mentioned several times during DS9 as the war progressed.

I think if Worf is doing other jobs, it would have to be just after the Dominion War, but before he becomes an ambassador to the Klingons. If it was during the war he would still be there not messing with some ceremony

I forget where I read it, but I saw somewhere that they only allowed limited Dominion and DS9 references because they were worried that not everyone who watched the movie would have watched DS9. There was supposedly going to be a scene where Worf mentioned the death of Jadzia, but they cut that for that reason. They were worried about people being confused about Worf having a dead wife

I just thought of this. We find out that the Baku do actually understand and have advanced technology. Yet they had no idea of the invisible people studying them. I find that strange.

Apparently leaving important ships off the frontlines is a Starfleet thing, Pike's Enterprise was exploring during the Klingon War on Discovery.

Well, the Millennium Falcon was in First Contact... So Hans Solo *is* Trek. ;)

👏

I’d say this movie isn’t really showing the federation crumbling, but more it’s post war reconstruction (they probably knew by this point that they would end up being the victors of the war, so they preemptively started rebuilding.)

Damn. Sanja Milkovic Hays is probably my distant cauisn!

Securing a planet is a big win for one ship, probably more useful than being in a task force with 100s of ships even if it is an amazing ship. There are also lots of examples in history of high end capital ships being too risky to put in harms way, for example the Yamato. Yamato was only used in desperation near the end of the war.

Didn't this take place during the dominion cold war?

Hi

I have given up all tech

Well, at least in pre-industrial times, we didn't have the Lucida typeface, so one cause of nausea and mental dysfunction was absent.

Browns and Beige!!

I think the Enterprise leading the fleet to try and route out the Dominion on Betazed would have been an interesting story. Could have been Dominion War drive and could have been close to home to counsellor Troi. Moments of empathy from Riker in how hard the occupation of her home world is hitting her could have been a much better bridge for their renewed relationship than "hormones".

they could be keeping it back for the same reason why 20th century battleships rarely fought each other. They don’t want to risk losing the Enterprise E or any other Sovereign to a Dominion ship, in battle sometimes all it takes is one lucky shot (or unlucky hit), just ask the hood, and the pride of the fleet is going up in flames. But for any attacks on a core world they probably wouldn’t of had a choice but to use them, can’t remember the timeline on the sovereign and when the breen entered the war, but I’d imagine at least one sovereign at least responded offscreen to the breen attack of earth and starfleet hq. Obviously thats just speculation.

You know what they could have done? Since the final attack on the dominion was an all out assault, they could have shown the Enterprise commanding another task force, doing their own separate mission to, I don't know, sabotage some awfull new breen/son'a superweapon that was being developed somewhere in their territory, and eventually stop it from reaching cardassia prime, ending the movie with their mission complete and the war approaching its end

Picard - the Milli Vanilli years.

0:14 Jonathan Frakes looks really young

Lore this species is brought up in DS9 . They Allie with the Dominion Sisko bring’s them up in passing