Both of Rhaenys' children died in fire. She likely thought about that before thinking about burning all of Alicent's children.

I just hope this gets brought up by the smallfoll during the storming of the Dragonpit to make it feel like it was something that impacted the story

I think it would be weird as heck for literally ANYONE to chose to bust through the floor if a clear opening is available. My take was that things were locked down hard and she couldnt find another way out and decided to just go for it

I also kinda felt like Helena’s prophecy regarding the loom was a way to express how Otto, the Hand, was planning a more violent and extreme coup without Alicent’s knowledge. Which ultimately leads to the two factions taking up arms.

I think your reasoning for Rheanys not killing everyone is spot on. I feel that because a lot of us know how it's all going to turn out, we forget that no-one (except maybe aemond) actually wants a war at this stage in the story.

I loved her little smile when she realized that the crowd she was caught in was being herded toward the dragon pit - where she wanted to go originally. I guess she was wearing armor under her cloak? Thanks for a great analysis. Things are about to get real!

That's what I kind of love about the Dance of the Dragons. A few times, the smallfolk get their "revenge" against these high lords for always playing their games and not worrying about the smallfolk who are losing because of it

I think the “beast beneath the boards” refers to two events: the dragon pit coronation and blood & cheese. This makes more sense because the killers sneak through the Red Keep’s hidden passages before they kill Helena’s son. It also makes sense as to why she seems so upset when she says this line the second time, because the second time this prophecy comes true her child gets killed.

To be fair Meles was in the dragon pit with Sunfrye and he probably told her all about Aegon's hobbies and got grossed out at the prospect of eating him

While they didn't do anything in this episode to give us an idea of Rhaeny's mindset, which I think was needed, they did at least set a foundation of why she had to break out of the dragonpit. Erryk Cargyll told her they weren't allowing dragons to leave the pit. That's why he was taking her another direction. So at least they set up that part of the scene.

Bro, she just killed hundreds of innocent people coming out of the pit. I'd say that's pretty cruel.

Aegon in his Jesus-pose kind of reminded me of Emperor Commodus in Gladiator. Similar kind of character, too.

Godammit I cant believe she couldn't hear me shouting "roast them" through my TV screen 🤣🤣

It would be great to have some small folk POV scenes in the future just see how destructive both sides are in this confilct

I love how there's no straight forward good or evil in most of the characters, none of their hands are completely clean and you can understand things from different characters perspective.

Shoutout to Soundgraden for their surprise cameo appearance - RIP Chris Cornell. 🖤 Always love the hidden music messages David. 🤘

When I watched it, I turned to my buddy and said, “She is smart to leave a terrible king in power”. I saw it as playing the long game. You have the Westerosi Power Couple leading the Blacks and a Cruel Man-Child (who doesn’t want it, initially), leading the Greens.

3:07: Wait. Oh shoot you are right! The High Septon's presence does change the calculation. I mean MAYBE she could have tried to yell at him to "get out of the way". How simple would it have been for her to order Meleys to attack without fire at first? Is that even possible?

Rhaenys: "Dracaryn't." Meleys: ???

I really loved the five reasons. but it was so well done. It worked for me. The look on her face, as she steered her dragon away, read like a warning. I saw it as saying "think twice"

Well of course it would’ve ended the show if she roasted them there but I think people’s point is that the writers didn’t need to include this scene or could’ve done it different. It makes no sense that the other dragons there would feel their riders be threatened and not come up to defend them. That would’ve made more sense and would’ve also provided a logical reason for why Rhaenys decided to get out of there without roasting them.

In addition to the Hightowers in Oldtown likely attempting to crown Daeron the Soon-to-be-Daring if Rhaenys roasts the Greens, there'd likely be a faction led by the remaining Kingsguard and maybe even Larys that would prop up Aegon's son Jahaerys as the next King. Would have been a really interesting turn of events and certainly wouldn't have prevented the Dance of the Dragons

Ok the reasons 5-2 were funny but 1 has to be the corniest dad joke which is why its the most funny lol

I kinda like how all the smallfolk had to be there and cheered for Aegon when at the beginning of the series when Rhaenyra saw the smallfolk not a fan of her as hier. And Daemon said they're onion matters!

wish the episode would of just ended with a shot of aegons face looking scary drunk with power. episode 9's deserve an ending where the writing isnt whats in question

My immediate reaction was "You just killed and maimed all these people, why so squeamish about roasting these fools!". I get all the reasons why she didn't, but I just don't know that the scene should have been executed that way because I feel like a lot of people didn't get it and felt it was cheap to have her so close to ending it before it starts only to fly away. Like maybe she could have been under fire or something and needed to flee with no time to DracAttack anybody. Idk. Just doesn't seem well received.

Listen I get the points that are being made, but the same time it’s like the writers can write whatever they want, they didn’t even have to put her in that position in the first place. They could’ve just had her bust out of there and I think it would’ve made for just as cool of a scene! That’s my problem with the scene and some other scenes from the episode. And they basically admit it on the behind the scenes that they were just trying to do cool stuff for the penultimate episode. That’s what bothers me about it other than that I still think the show is great and the episode was great.

She had no problem killing 100’s of common folk though …

How did she burst through the floor and sustain all that debris without injury? Not even a helmet. You'd think at best, hit in the head by a giant stone, or worst, shmooshed while sitting on top of the dragon as it pushes upwards into the stone ceiling.

Help me out here fans. So she couldn't get to the dragon because it was under guard until it wasn't? Why would they leave what amounted to a nuclear weapon unguarded for one second? When and how did the guards leave and why on earth would they do that?

By not killing everyone here she also sets a precendent for mercy, not only is she not the first spilling blood, her act will also be remembered by the other side. I can see the biographical factor as well, Rhaenys lost a lot, her husband right now is clinging to life, wounded in war. She knows loss and might not be willing to inflict it. Also she never pushed her claim in war. She was worried about her child's safety first in a political advantagous marriage. She is not a warlike person.

Spot on and exactly all my thoughts, especially that this gives weight to a future event. I have found it interesting how people have insisted that this actually ruined the future event and also was simply fan service. As much as I would have loved a green BBQ, I absolutely understand why she did not and how this was both a show of power and restraint, something the greens will not show next week.

"The queen who didn't" i can't stoplaughing 😭😭

Rhaenys was never made queen so as much as she may have thought it could avoid war.... She couldn't have known how Rhaenyra would have responded to it. For all she knows, Rhaenyra may bend the knee so she wasn't going to stop a war by starting a war. The whole dragon pit cheered for Aegon so it definitely would have started something.

If that intro wasn't peak comedy within this fandom I don't know what is.

I think its just bad writing to have a character murder a few dozen innocent strangers for no stated reason, and then refuse to kill the group of people that are actively seeking to disinherit, and will most likely seek to execute at least your grandsons in law if not your whole family. The inside the episode at the end outright stated that they basically just wanted a popcorn moment for Rhaenys. You can fabricate some post hoc justification sure, or you can just accept that it is a pretty terrible plot hole in an otherwise very well written show. And while we are talking about this scene, how is Rhaenys not jelly? She really should have been crushed by rubble or pasted between her dragon and the ceiling on her way out.

The Stanis "fewer" joke will always get me...😆😆

I'd rather have Rhaenys escape through one of the 40+ hillside exits to the dragonpit while maybe killing some gold cloaks in the process thus avoiding the unecessary staredown and subsequent questioning by viewers.

I definitely find it weird that people think her not killing them is completely irrational. I could see thinking she should have, but to act like it's outside the realm of human logic, especially making that decision in the moment, doesn't make sense to me. She would have been a kin-slayer (and kingslayer unless you think everyone in the realm will say it's illegitimate), she would have been starting a war that could be negotiated over like you said, it's not like she's sworn to Rhaenyra's side to the point where she'd throw her life away for her (although I've heard people say now her kids are more in danger, which I understand). Then there's the sympathy for Alicent angle, which makes slightly less sense to me, but I get it. I do think the scene would have been more logical and better if you just see Rhaenys and her dragon break out however they could and just fly away with the small folk running outside to see her go. Because if the goal is really just to get the hell out of there, then that makes the most sense and would still be really cool. And we as the viewers know exactly what she's doing.

That scene didn't feel right to me, We know there was no way she could've killed the greens because that will end the show, so why put Rhaenys in a position that looked like she could've killed the greens only to say she somehow had a change of heart, After killing hundreds of people let it be for something other than to stare at greens like a boss and then fly away. It's like she was trying to prove that viserys the peaceful was always a better choice than her. It would've been better for her to use another exit maybe kill a few guards blocking her way. If it was necessary for us to see a dragon in action we could've seen Sunfyre at least. Not killing the greens doesn't mean she's not cruel, Aegon has never really harmed his family but we say he's cruel for what he's done to other people who are not from the royal family, and Rhaenys has done something worse in a few minutes in my books she's cruel.

Well it would have changed the outcome that was in Fire and Blood for one. The other, she showed compassion and knew that their deaths would have confirmed a war. Lord Hightower would have no other choice but to go to war. This way there is a chance for negotiation for peace.

I like the idea that there were so many people cheering Aegon II's coronation, that Rhaenys was reminded of how people cheered for Viserys instead of her. In that moment she must have known that even if Rhaenyra was the rightful heir, she would never be queen in the eyes of the people. They accepted Aegon II as their king, and killing him after that wouldn't achieve a single thing. Rhaenys has shown herself to be pretty good at accepting a fait accompli.

What was Rhaenys doing in KL in the first place? Why is Baela not with her? Why couldn’t she just flee through the normal exit? How is she not heavily wounded by all the debris?

I'm sorry bro, the showrunners themselves said this was all just a girlboss moment for spectacle's sake. We're filling in gaps that shouldn't be there because the writers decided to pull a Season 8 real quick. She walked offscreen for two seconds, splattered a bunch of civilians, rawred, and pissed off into the sky because it's the penultimate episode and they needed to contrive something shocking. And hey, we're all talking about it, so it worked!

She killed tens or hundreds inside the pit for no reason, why everybody is acting like she is this level headed person?

the soundgarden burst was so perfect. I was cry laughing

Those poor dang smallfolk

I could be wrong, but I had the impression Helaena’s prophecy was referring to Otto, Larys, or Alicent’s handmaid or even the White Worm. There is clearly discord amongst the Greens where none of them truly trust each other and are unsure what game each are playing.

Solid take! I did think the showrunners explanation was a bit light as well. Im ok with part of it having to do with a motherly moment between Alicent & Rhaenys, but not souly because of that. Rhaenys is the Queen who never was, not the Cruel. Also, how bout that Armor of hers 🔥

Loved every episode so far but this one. Cole killing Beesbury in that manner wasn't believable at all, it was silly & ridiculous. In my opinion that set the tone for the whole episode, silly & ridiculous. With Rhaenys killing a bunch of innocent people seems out of character, however I can see how that will lead to something else later in the story. Won't hate on it too much, not ready to jump ship like Galadriel yet... 😝

Maybe it would have worked if Aegon called for Sunfyre to protect him, Sunfyre puts himself between the greens and Meleys forcing Reyes to flee

In the book I believe they also choose the dragonpit because they say it's easier to defend? Also Rhaenys burning them is like a modern day dropping of a nuke as dragons are weapons of mass destruction. She's not going to do that with the information she has at the time.

I'm glad you made a video, it was like 50 people asking this question over and over on your live

I think Rhaenys couldn't possibly pull the trigger because it would have been totally out of character, for all the reasons LML said. But I think Ryan Condal made a good point as well that Rhaenys has new-found respect for Alicent and that was part of the reason why Rhaenys spared the Greens. Rhaenys, being the shrewdest politician of the whole lot, would also be well aware that nuking the Greens then and there would put herself in a completely indefensible position. She would have been a kinslayer (several times over), a kingslayer, and a mass murderer (even if setting aside the smallfolk collateral damage). At that point, who would even defend her? Would Rhaenyra or Daemon or any other power player even come to Rhaenys's defense? Or would they just say, hey nothing to do with us, we didn't even know what was happening, and let Rhaenys take all the blame? More than likely the latter. So burning the Greens at that point would have been a really bad political move for Rhaenys with all kinds of blowback.

Good well rounded takes, I really like your style of content so far

I'm just here to remind everyone that Matt Smith aka Daemon Targaryen played Patrick Bateman in the West End production of the American Psycho musical a few years back lol...our boy is a multi-hyphenate

I think haelenas beast references may have been foreseeing other events as well

Why would she? Not even book Rhaenyra wanted her siblings dead. Show Rhaenyra would be furious if Rhaenys roasted Rhaenyras brothers and sister. This isn’t the war of fire and blood yet. This is only the war of ravens. Both sides hope for a clean win without killing family. The real war only starts once a Targaryen kills another Targaryen. The greens have made themselves a home in the red keep, they have hundreds of friends. Even though king Aegon would be dead they’d still have many rebels and team greens in kingslanding and across the realm. These are my thoughts

I feel like after someone’s bonded with their dragon, there’s nothing they wouldn’t do to rescue, just as their dragon would do for them. Understandably, to me anyway. But after that, she could take a bit more neutral stance because she felt it wasn’t her place to purposefully massacre everyone in the throne room. And I think you’re saying something like that 😊if I got you right.

Thank you for the shout out Dave! I love doing these streams and look forward to the finale. And all the stuff to watch out for during the wait for season 2.

This is an excellent video and great breakdown / explanation.

I have the "Stark Wolf" version of the cup you have beside you. Nice. I liked the analysis on this one as well.

I enjoyed green aegon and ham more than I reasonably should have

While I have to admit that the Rharnys scene bothered me on the first watch through, now after having watched the episode again, after reading comments online, and of course watching this video, I've realized that it makes a lot of sense. From displaying what a great queen Rhaenys would have made because of her restraint from foreshadowing the big event in the Dragonpit that's still to come. Great way to end the episode. Can't wait to see what happens next Sunday!

just an aside: I love how Rhaenys leaned over to command Meleys to exit the pit... so intimate with dragon and rider...

The problem for me was less “why didn’t she dracarys” but more “why would they add this scene if she couldn’t dracarys” sure she needed to make her escape but if she had no intention to end the war before it started why not wait little longer in the basement until the crowd at least dispersed a little. Killing hundreds of people just for the optics seems so cruel and in complete disregard of civilian lives, and out of character for Rhaenys especially in an episode where they say she would have been a good queen. It just felt like it was done for the spectacle and not motivated by character or plot and the writers have said as much, we all just have war flashbacks from season 8 😂

@11:15 I love you man! That song came straight into my head when I was watching it.

I understand her not killing them, but why did she even showed up at the coronation with Meleys? She could've just LEFT King's Landing couldn't she?

You make so many interesting points!

I swear the "Shepherd" was born in that episode and bring the finale on! Awesome video as ever ❤️

Oh my Gods in Seven Hells! This episode is beyond Thunderdome genius. That last minute is pregnant with profundity. The writing, directing and acting is stupendous. You used the word "Powerful" -- I agree and PROFOUND There is so much happening in Rhaenys' passivity; with her 'non-action' she actually did so much. Philosophically some would say that 'she did nothing' compared to the bloodshed and burning that she could've done. In that, yes: 'She did nothing' But she did do something: She put the fear of dragons in them. She gave them a hard reality check: My dragon can end all of your lives right now in 5 seconds. And without uttering any words -- said to them: YOU are starting a war. And this war is gonna be fought with dragons. Here's a little peek of what that might look like for you. We can go on and on about why she should've Dracarys-ed their asses and why she should NOT. We can argue for or against that for days -- from all angles of logic, rules of war, rules of succession, morality, mental health, right/wrong, loyalty, duty ... They whisper this perpetual pondering into our minds and hearts every Episode: What is good/bad? What is right/wrong? What is justice/unfair? And every argument will end like this: No matter what she did, the outcome would be a shitty one. THAT is the genius of this show! (the writing! The humanity, the reality, the fantasy IS reality) If Rhaenys escaped with Meyles without bursting through the boards and not harming a single Small Folk -- war will still follow. If Rhaenys did Dracarys their asses -- war will still follow. If Rhaenys did or -- war will still follow. The writers/creators give me hope in humanity. The story/show is so human and compassionate. But it makes me pointlessly ponder: "what really happened?" in that memorable moment in history ... whose memory? the people, their circumstances, their mental mindset ... what really happened? I want to learn more about the people behind the history instead of the most important events in history.

Honestly this episode to me was probably the weakest (still ok) because of how different it was to the book. The Green Council, Otto plotting behind Alicent's back, Rhaenys and Meleys at the Dragonpit, the drawn out plot to get Aegon. It just felt a bit jarring to me. That Rhaenys and Meleys scene felt like more style over substance (GOT season 8) I do love the complexity of Alicent's character though. Looking forward to episode 10 for a certain "showdown"

I don't like Allicent but I have to admit she's brave. She parked herself in front of Aegon convinced R was going to roast them. Maybe R really wants A to feel she and her family are only alive because of R's mercy

Green aegon and ham 🤣🤣🤣🤣

your channel is awesome man, currently going through your TWoW prediction series with quin and its great, thanks for the great content

King Slayer is the worst crime committed in the realm. It's a cursed title and not easily forgiven. The only way that killing the King is justified is during combat after a declaration of war has been declared. If she would of killed them then most of the realm would of turned on the Black's and diplomatically gaining the Iron Throne would of been almost impossible.

I still think that they should have not added this scene. The benefits of getting rid of the riders of all 3 of the greens' biggest dragons, ESPECIALLY of Vhagar are too great. Vhagar is the big trump card the greens have in the war. Tessarion alone would stand no chance. Furthermore, Rhaenys probably had an atleast decent possibility of taking Aegons kids as hostages, as they probably are in the red keep at the time. That would have been an excellent tool preventing any green/Hightower uprising. Wether the common people would rise up for a lost cause by usurpers is very questionable also. And lastly, Rhaenyra would NOT have been directly involved in killing all the usurpers, Rhaenys would have killed them. If a need for it would arise, the Queen could symbolically punish Rhaenys still. Everyone at the time knew that war was at least VERY LIKELY, and the greens were actively couping the government and usurping the throne, it would imo be very easy to show how they were guilty of high treason (which they definitely are afterall!), and therefore deserved the death of traitors. For people who support Rhaenyras cause already, like Rhaenys, the case of usurpation is clear without the shadow of a doubt in particular. I can understand a few reasonings given as to why she didnt do it, even though most of them are either questionable or outright weak. But what is most important: Wether one now thinks that Rhaenys did the right and honorable thing or not, *what I think is without doubt true is that the scene is too questionable to add in.* They should have kept to GRRMs version imo, much better, much less questionable. And even for the goal of adding bad ass scenes for Rhaenys (which I am all for!), they could have atleast done it better. Give her better reasons not to burn them than "honor" compared to incredible advantages in the highly possible war, advantages against enemies that are definitely guilty of provoking the war themselves, if not nearly on their own causing it, and also definitely guilty of usurping the throne.

Agreed with everything youve said here. Spot on 💯🔥👏🏾 What I keep saying is that while people seem to think killing the Greens would have prevented war, we are saying that from the POV of people who know that there will be a Dance of Dragons aka war. This isn't necessarily apparent to the characters at this point in the show and as you say, Rhaenys kin slaying the late King's true born children and wife would very much likely have started war faster rather than prevented it. In addition, remember that Otto had been planning Aegon's ascension literally since he was born and they no doubt had several houses backing them. It's been noted several times in the show that many in the realm still don't accept Rhaenyra since she's a woman and even those who swore fealty to her would be fine with switching their support to Daeron after his family had been massacred. Rhaenys would come off as a woman who was denied the thrown in service of another woman who they want to deny the thrown. The propoganda would read them as two uppity, female Targaryens and kin slayers who don't know their place. NO, the only way war could have been prevented is: 1. Helaena marries Jace 2. Viserys never names Rhaenyra as heir It really is actually a great scene and the way the writers tried to explain it was absolutely trash lmao. This wasn't a "girl boss" moment as some of the incels like to conclude. It's so much more complicated than that.

"Green Aegon's and Ham" is Top 10 Game of Thrones puns all time.

I saw The Mara Volta last weekend and they were incredible. Cedric has definitely upped his vocal game. Hope you have a blast!

3:26 Nice catch!! Didn't notice that in the intro about Daeron!

Regarding "the boards" - architecturally, the dragon pit would probably NEED wooden boards to support the floor. You can't built a "layer" of stone floor, since it doesn't have the tensile strength (despite excellent compressive strength). You could get around that with arches, like in vaulted ceilings, but we see tiles (not chunks) flying everywhere when Meleys bursts out. Historically it was far easier and cheaper to use wood a layer of wood, since it has excellent tensile strength (i.e. it can bend quite a lot before breaking, while stone just crumbles). You could put tiles on top of that, up to a certain weight limit. I think that's the only design that makes sense architecturally, physically and logically within the story.

There is absolutely no way someone hated season eight of GOT but somehow stan this useless and forced scene. Absolutely no way .

I think Aegon hiding under the altar could possibly be the "beast beneath the boards". He's not a literal beast, but a "beast" like Beast Rabban from Dune or the Beast in the Book of Revelation.

Thank you for that analysis David , I was thinking that they had really dropped a clanger in this Episode . How you explained Rhaenyras behaviour made a lot of sense , I now have full faith in the show runners again

There is a lot of HotD content out there and LML has been tops from day one! Absolutely so excited for the finale afterparty 💃

Let's not forget about her granddaughter back in Dragonstone (I presume) either. Saying princess Rhaenys cares about her granddaughters is an understatement.

I believe that when all is eventually known that Helaena's scenes in the show will be among the most important. She's the one speaking the truth, but, as with all prophecy in the series, the problem lays in how to interpret it. There's a temptation to fall into the trap of confirmation bias. We believe something to be true and see prophecies as confirming them, when in fact they mean something else entirely. And that's not just true of prophecy. In a series largely told to us by unreliable narrators and historians who may have their own agenda (as historians often do), it is easy to start to telling ourselves a story that we like while drifting further and further from the truth.

Dear David I like your production videos and super lame jokes, impersonations and voice overs. Please keep them going. If you think they are funny, I find the frickin hilarious. All the best and looking forward to more.

The Queen who never was reminds me of my mom who passed away in January. I love Rhaenys. She's such a strong beautiful woman. Hey Morfyyd? Take notes.

Thank you lightbringer For waiting for the episode to drop before commenting on it . I really hate that KZfaqrs are doing reviews already it really kills a lot for me .Just wait for damn Sunday my god

Green Aegons and ham. That's a classic already.

hey David, if you and Minty are coming to the city today, let me take you guys out for a late lunch or drinks before the performance.

What I would give to see a series about maegor.

This is a great explanation, of all d one's I have heard so far

Reason: Plot Armor Plausibility given the character's motivations and circumstances: Unbelievable.

Since I was seeing clips of Eve as Rhaenys and then when I saw her in the episodes I was thinking it sucks that this woman doesn’t have more screen time. Even in the books she goes to flight and does the dance with whoever killed her but she was never truly fleshed out. I’m so happy to have seen her in these moments even though I know her end. She truly was a Queen. I wish “Long Lived Queen Rhaenys” 🔥🔥&🩸🩸🐉🐉❤️❤️❤️

Agree. Great video, ty ❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

First 45 seconds ".... I think David has joined with House Kar*snark*" and 😆😆