As a follow-up, far too many folks have imprisoned themselves in abusive relationships entertaining the notion that "deep down" or "underneath" it all, character disturbed folks are simply hurting and need help and understanding.

I just watched every video you have on manipulation tactics. You helped me finally understand that key difference between the defensive and offensive behavior. Mind blown. Thank you so much for this video series. It's wonderful.

Surrendering oneself to a "higher power" is always an element of constructive change for the character-impaired. But generally, behavior is changed with fairly reliable confrontation or self-monitoring and "correction" of problem thinking patterns and responsibility-obstructive behaviors.

His unbundling of someone making an excuse is brilliant.(4:30 onward) The short version of any excuse is "Fuck-you!" We are beating ourselves up to try to reason, pacify, or negotiate with someone making an excuse. They have admitted to wrong-doing, and everything after that is simply manipulation. I wish I understood that when I was 2yo.

I'm surprised that you don't have more subscribers. Your time is now. Society is so sick.

People can and do change all the time, even some of the more disturbed characters. The motivation has to be right, however, and it also requires a specialized form of CBT. And while many disturbed characters don't think there's anything wrong with their way of doing things, they can under certain circumstances admit some of the shipwrecks their way of doing things has caused. And that's a first step. And a few others actually know at some level that they're dysfunctional.

I sung at a blues club and received a good response from most musicians and the public except one person, a drummer who after the show deconstructed everything i did. in his eyes I was wrong and no matter how hard I tried (humbly) to show I had a good understanding of technical aspects of the craft and progress was a good thing, I was reminded I had no foundation and evertyhing I replied as wrong...

They do know what they are doing is wrong. Its deliberate.

Amazingly perceptive, this; that you not only discern how narcissists/sociopaths are able to portray themselves as 'victims', but how they are then able to parlay that perceptions into a platform from which they can launch an assault on whomsoever they choose in an orgy of self-aggrandizement...terrifying, but it happens every day...thank you so much for posting this series...

You're one of my favorite people on this planet. Thank you for your work!

The worst part is that I did see it coming and accepted.....did nothing.. Thank you for such great work and sharing it.

Wow, this is what I am caught in. Thank you so much!!!! I'm not crazy. It is so exhausting being in a conversation with him. It's always me not seeing it his way. But not about what is going on.

My ex husband did this same to me. It's hurtful to see how much Evil these people can do. Thank you for your explanation of these behaviors.

Thanks so much. The validation means a lot. And I hope you find my other books and writings helpful also.

This is helpful. I've recently been left for someone else by my long time girlfriend whom I loved and trusted with no boundaries. Even though (I believe, or at least I have no clear evidence to the contrary) she decided to leave me before having sex with the other guy, I still felt cheated. Because of course the relation had been developing long before, as she kept spending way too much time with him and telling me not to worry about it. She eventually came back to me just a few weeks ago, telling me she realized she wanted to spend her life with me and work this through. It didn't take long before I realized she just wasn't accepting any responsibility for what happened. I was willing to forgive and move on, but seeing how she wouldn't even be willing to acknowledge her own faults had me walking back on that. In her own words, what really happened is we were no longer spending enough time together, I didn't give her enough attention, and that lead her to this. Her own responsibility goes no further than having failed to communicate her distress in that situation. I was perfectly willing to make some change and work on spending more time together, it's true that I had been busy with other stuff and did some mistakes. And I actually acted on this. But to me that was a red flag. If she couldn't admit that giving up on the relationship we had built for so long to go on a fling with some other guy was actually, in itself, a problem, then surely the chances of that not happening again were quite low. I was baffled to hear these excuses and blame shift. Did she actually, really believe that I was equally guilty of *her* infidelity? It seemed so preposterous that I decided she was probably still working through what had happened, was just "still in denial" and would probably eventually come to her good senses. A few months later, that is, less than a week ago, I decided to end the relationship completely, because she was showing no signs of progress on that front at all, and I had had enough of being blamed for being betrayed. Now I was still struggling with this decision. Would the wise and courageous thing to do be to give her more time? Was this refusal to take responsibility really likely to lead to a repeat? Was I just being egotistic and trashing a potentially happy relationship just because of my need of hearing her admit she wronged me? Now I've been reading a lot on this topic lately and I find these clips very clear. So I'm not crazy. This WILL happen again if I bend to this blame shifting bullshit. All of this had crossed my mind. That these were ways to just stand her grounds, and not concede anything. In the future she would keep being flirtatious with guys and I would keep having to be told I'm just being jealous. I would keep being told "we can't control our feelings" and "my feelings were too strong by that point I couldn't help it" and blahblahblah. Nothing would change, and I'd be stuck in that cycle with the constant threat that if she was ever unfaithful again, it wouldn't be her fault, and would just be evidence that something was wrong with the relationship (read: with something I did that made her feel the need to go find someone else). Thank you.

So spot on! And it's sobering to think of how relatively recent a phenomenon this whole "civilization" thing is in human history. The real key to our future is honestly reckoning with our primal instincts and our tribal past and with full awareness engaging in the hard work of elevating ourselves. As I mention in "Character Disturbance," if we don't get much more honest with ourselves about ourselves and with each other about each other, and pretty soon, we just might not make it.

Thank you sooooo much for this! I have been trying to deal with this for years with no concrete explanation for why this is such a huge indicator that the person will repeat their behavior and why I don't trust them. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!

It is. I have always felt trapped by being involved with an indivdual such as that. The facade is what I fell for, or what I would like to tell myself, because it makes sense to me. Now that time has passed its as if i'm immune and can see how he continues to do it to other people. Its almost like watching a train wreck happen because no one believes how he truly is unless they become victims to his manipulation. Most of the time they don't even know its happened. He's so graceful at it too.

This needs to be taught to ALL therapists. The family court judges need to hear this series as well. When you 'apply' to the courts for a domestic violence restraining order to protect yourself, the courts (in my experience) put you in the defensive position. The family court system further victimizes the victims of domestic violence. I've even been harangued by court appointed therapists! The system is set up to expand the use of manipulation and abuse.

Many folks occasionally use some of these tactics in various kinds of situations. But it's a particular kind of troubling character who prefers the manipulative "style" of interaction, using the entire arsenal of tactics in a wide variety of situations and almost all the time to gain advantage over others.

Thank you, Dr. Simon! So glad I listened to this today. My mother-in-law has all of the characteristics of a "manipulator" and she is ruining our lives. Now, we don't play her game anymore--it frustrates her now because she can no longer manipulate and abuse us.

Don't they understand what they're doing is wrong? YES! THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE AN EXCUSE...if they didn't think it was wrong, they wouldn't offer an excuse! BOOM! Fantastic point!! 4:55

As I explain in my books and online articles on the subject, there is a continuum or spectrum of character disturbance with pure neurosis being at one end and pure character disturbance at the other end. Most folks with character disturbance (those lying toward the end of the spectrum do not "suffer from a condition imposed on them but rather feel "comfortable" with a style of interaction that "fits" their innate tendencies as well as their learned and freely chosen preferences.

The best explanation of the ‘rationalizations’ and ‘’denial’ TACTICS used by ‘character challenged’ individuals on line.

Wow I cannot believe I found your channel, I bought your book many yrs ago "In Sheep's clothing"at a time in my life when I was trapped in an unhappy marriage with a man who manipulated every area of my life it empowered me. I ended the marriage after 20 yrs and I just wanted to thank you because in the dark times you re assured me that I was not going mad, that I had done everything I could have done to make it work. 11 yrs on I am still struggling to get to rid of the defensiveness.(contd)

Thank you for the clarification, it's so liberating, so logical. I was aware of sensing many tactics but I didn't have names for them for long years. I've also bought your book and I'm so thankful for the help it gave me.

(contd) after spending all my adult life with Panic disorder and depression.. its hard when your 52 to undo a lot of the things you believe about yourself still. I need a starting point I guess. Thank you so much for your book It really saved me that is no exaggeration I always thought I was going mad but then I read your book it was insightful and truly put into words what I lived with on a day to day basis. There was power in your words just wanted you to know x x

reacting angrily - do something constructive & actually work on being a better person & doing good things. I absolutely don't think it's normal, healthy, or good for a person to keep on making excuses. And George Simon is right - when someone keeps on making excuses & rationalizes their bad, painful, hurtful behaviors & actions to others - that means that they in their heart don't want to change as a person - EVEN though many people around them & almost the whole world is telling him that that

These are excerpts from a series soon to be available on DVD and as a "webinar."

'Rationalization, tactic of excuse making, the purpose of getting others to see your point of view, explaining away your behavior into convincing enough way that somebody who wants to confront you about that behavior will be swayed and think that you are totally and completely justified in doing it so it's basically a manipulation tactic. You know for sure that the behavior is going to happen again'' ' I'm just trying to justify that what I did was okay even though it was not okay.' ' 'What's the excuse for it!!!??''There is no excuse!!' but the disturbed character is making the case. trying to still look good and getting you to concede the point, manipulating you into buying the reason.They have to know that they have violated a standard.when they know there is no justification for it. People in problem relationships they get all these clues, Things are not going to change. They may get worse.' THIS IS SO TRUE!! IT GETS WORSE. NOW I REALLY NEED TO SPOT ON THIS DISTURBANCE CHARACTERS -MANIPULATORS IMMEDIATELY.

Second & third relationships, I had NO abuse at all - no emotional or verbal abuse because those two men never tried to control me & they DIDN'T set any rules, which is healthy. Anyways, what George Simon is saying is applicable to many people in some relationships. To me, it's a red flag when someone keeps on making excuses. When almost every interaction with that person is him making another excuse until it reaches to the point that he has written a book or encyclopedia full of excuses.

Mine said to the flipping judge in court.."SHE made me do it". Luckily the judge was onto him..and threatened him with contempt of court and a free pass to the big house if he continued along those lines. These people are evil!

You're welcome. I hope you've found them informative and helpful.

I resent people telling me what my level of gratitude for whatever reason should be. I don't know why someone might need to tell me that unless they disagree with what my perception should be. They often make excuses for the other party in their absence and sometimes there is no ability to confront the other party in a one on one conversation.

They have an excuse for everything they're doing wrong! I believe these are called self-righteous justifications!

I consider these behaviors emotional violence.

I agree, but I tend to see these people "as" the tactic, it is so completely internalized for them. They are walking like zombies through life, merely approximating human gestures and behaviours. And they have absolutely no incentive ( in fact, a negative incentive, or "dis-incentive") to have actual insight into their behaviour. Because they have learned to survive on these tactics as though their lives depended on them, which they do. These have been strategies that have always won for them. And they are constantly engrossed in polishing their act. It is their actual nature to do so, being dis-incentivized to ever take responsiblities for their actions and the harm they cause, If they actually were able to be in any way reflective on their behaviours, they would accrue responsibility for their behaviours, and that is of no interest to them at all. That is never going to happen. Like Stanilavsky said is his Method Acting: "What's the motivation?"!.

You're my hero Dr. S you're so brilliant. Wish I would have read your work ages ago.

I have always found his knowledge in regards to these behaviors useful and have helped me recognize these behaviors and tactics to be able to protect myself. I have many family member's and a ex friend who uses these tactic's of manipulation and it is hard to deal with, but I am better at seeing it and calling on it for what it is.

is controlling you with a litany of excuses making up most of his communication. People like that need GOOD QUALITY counselors AND they NEED to stop their bad habits of making excuses all the time. It needs to stop. Sorry for the long post. This video is good. Thank you for this video, George Simon. blkhillsgma - I feel for you. And the people who have poured their heart out on this page, I feel for you. And yes, many people including me have dealt with manipulative people who have made excuses.

This man is 💯 correct. Brilliant!

Now how you "go about" facilitating change is simple: YOU DON'T do any of the work. You simply INSIST (with definite consequences for non-compliance) that THEY do the work. That is, they seek out a properly trained, specialized CBT therapist and get busy. You just hold them accountable for the results. There - that was easy, wasn't it?

I explain the process of "corrective emotional and behavioral experience" in my book "Character Disturbance."

This is extremely important information and clarification. Thank you very much!

This is gold. I whish i discovered your channel before going to psychotherapy...

If you need to vent, then you can talk to me. I'm your friend. I'm sorry that it took you 15 years to realize & get out of that abusive relationship. But I believe you will find your happiness again in the future. To George Simon, thanks for your video. This is the 1st time I've seen this. If it wasn't for my friend here, I wouldn't have known this video existed. I've been lucky that I've NEVER been physically abused by any guy. But I've gone through some emotional & verbal abuse by a few guys.

Talk more about how to stop/defeat the aggressors or how to keep the aggressors from controlling others and damaging others. That would be most helpful, Dr. Simon. Thank you.

If this individual is "using" the knowledge in the way you suggest, it's more than just a bad prognostic sign, it's a sign that he possibly has the most severe form of character disturbance, currently untreatable.

My brother asked my Dad 30 years later why he hit our Mum and my Dad said he should have hit her a bit more to get better results. To this day I do not contact my Dad.

Thank you, Mr George Simon for this information. I watch it over and over again and understand what my abuser is doing. He has involved others to try and manipulate me using God. How sick is that.

These ideas are so insightful, thanks so much!

their energy in being positive & doing nice, good, caring, loving things for others. I feel that being aware & knowing what you should do for your friends, loved ones, etc. is one thing - BUT actually doing the actions that other people request & want from you is another thing.To me, being aware, having the knowledge & know-how on what you should do means absolutely nothng UNLESS you actually DO something GOOD & ACT on the knowledge & knowhow & what people are telling you. Instead of leaving or

I believe the key to not being like the common laymen and optimistically overlooking their lies, is to truly change the things they complain over if you feel its a justified criticism. Without a plan or direction for my future i absorbed the abuse deceiving myself that regular scolding is what i deserved from an old school foreigner birthparents. But once I followed through every step to escape the stagnation of non prodroductiveness, I realized the disrespect still kept getting hurled at me with no consideration for 4 years of extreme reform, and its just the result of their unquestioned comfort of demeaning others, and I realized, I don't deserve this anymore the way they claim, a lot has changed, and if i don't stick up for myself they will think their insulting demeaning behavior is a justified one, I set limits and protest any unjustified words of disservice to the improved mentality and life I'm setting for myself. An abusive cycle will not be allowed to continue when real change and improvement has been proven real and lived though, its not fair and i have awoken to want better in my day to day psyche and know how to defend it from labels of worthlessness. No one can take or remove me from assurance i know i can have for myself, despite what little they allow themselves to think of me, times change and ambitions for a harmonious life grows, however unchecked power and unjustified dominance will be removed because we refuse to be naive like that ever again.

I appreciate your insight and understanding of bible principles, people forget they were designed for us humans to know how to live the way we were designed to live , thank you for sharing, it has helped me to understand how I came to be in an abusive relationship, iam out now 5 months , and trying to get myself back ! It’s hard work , I want you to know I just discovered you , and have been watching many of your videos , I really loved the one on what real love looks like , my heart knows you are absolutely right , but you don’t see it very often , isn’t that sad !

I wish you would write a book for those who still struggle with feeling like a victim, I struggle in relationships with my daughters (all grown women now) because I still hear echo's of their father, he did a good job on them too and my reactions to most people if I am honest are very defensive. I mistrust people's motives all the time. I don't like the word victim I lean towards the word Damaged and a little lost and I have suffered with Agoraphobia for 10 yrs. (contd)

Could it be possible, or have you even encountered someone who was not only surrounded by everyone around them that appeared to be in the same mindset or it could possibly be that his reality is so warped that he has the ability to manipulate people around him. For instance, his family members. They all think the same. It's almost like they're all disturbed. They all appear to be nice and kind but are just focused on doing what they do in order to win or gain something for their benefit.

If you're physically healthy & have a heart & a brain - then you should know that always giving excuses is never good to the people who spend time & converse with you. With all the energy spent making excuses - that cumulative energy could've been spent doing nice things & spending quality time with the people you care about & the people who care about you. I feel that those who keep on making excuses have mis-spent & mis-used their energy. Instead of doing negative things - they could've used

I do my best to explain the "whys" for this in my book "Character Disturbance."

'Offense tactic'. This has big implications for the understanding of personality disorders.

You are very smart!! This describes my ex exactly. I really appreciate your insight. It’s helped me so much. Thank you!!

Thank you...Awsome!

You do a great job at explaining the steps as to the disturbed characters way of thinking but as from my own personal experience, I was wanting to know if there is a way to change a person, assuming that they have good intentions or want to for that matter. Would CBT or perhaps a behavioral modification plan work? If so how would you go about it? I'm guessing that would go hand in hand with the individual as to not wanting to change as they believe there is nothing wrong with them.

been living with a women like this went to therapy and was told it was a defense mechanism the person when we had a conflict didn't talk to me for 6 weeks. i always saw this as aggression she new i could not handle this and that this behavior would wear me down. over the years she's realized I've checked the score so we have now split up. i have a 6 year old with her and am worried that she will breed this behavior pattern to him. she got it from her mother. thanks stay calm

Another amazing video!!!! Amazing!!

In my experience most conniving people have conniving faces (facial expressions and mannerisms).

Thank you so much!!

Example of excuses being offered to people: "I am here after my wife told me our son told of a story that a teacher of his by the name of [] told him to stand up so he could turn his desk over onto the floor [And if he didn't stand up in a salute that teacher would have like he did to other students start to try and turn it over while the student was still in it]. I was told the teacher did so because his desk was so disorganized with things often falling out of his desk. To be honest I am at my wits end with how my wife is so crazy most of the time and unable to do much of anything around the house and so my son doesn't see anything wrong keeping his desk messy. However, I do not believe that turning our sons desk over to make him clean it up is going to help. I know you are busy right now so could we talk more at length about this over dinner"

Thanks for such kind words, Maria.

Ur brilliant. I'm bongewat hi g you u speak to the heart and soul of a person. Ty. Ur wife's a very lucky woman I'm getting yo book I knew yo book b4 I actually saw u in my time line . Wow. I'm Soo blessed. Ty.

You are good.

Thank you. Very helpful and true.

thank you for uploading these videos.

I really love the book, "In Sheep's Clothing", by Dr. George Simon. ----- Good clarification on aspects of values and different tactics of manipulation, and excuse making in this video. On a related complex situation of likely, or suspected manipulation, and complex deception from someone who is actually a mental health professional, there are some concerns and important questions. So, these questions are in this context. Has anyone come across a psychologist or psychiatrist that they highly suspect they are a sociopath? If so, what were some traits and actions that you noticed? I have met one, which I only realized later that he was likely a sociopath, but even at first I had an uneasy feeling about him, and how he seemed to encourage a dialogue of vanity, in which he was vain and seemed to expect me to talk in a vain way. Also, based on his horrible actual work of his profession as a psychologist, he appeared that he may really enjoy fooling either other people, or even himself to respect him as a psychologist, even though he really is not, which was made clear by his avoidance of using specifics, and not following ethical codes of conduct for psychologists. Later, he was also putting down other doctors and mental health professionals, even though one in particular is much more credentialed than him. Anyway, if you have come across anyone who actually works as a mental health professional, but may actually be a sociopath, please share your observations. ----- P.S. : One of the better books on the subject is The Sociopath Next Door, www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828 ; and in that book the author gives some good practical advice and considerable caution. One advice she gives is "Question Authority!". I do not necessarily agree with everything in the book, but overall it is very good and helps drive further analysis in a subject often overlooked.

person has some issues & problems that is affecting many people emotionally & that he really needs to work on being a better person. I agree with George Simon - there is NO excuse for making SO MANY excuses. When a person makes so many excuses - it's a poor reflection on that person & the guilt, blame, & problems honestly lies with the SOURCE of the problems - the guy who is being emotionally abusive, physically abusive, or

Dr. Simon, How much of these behaviors, in your opinion, are rooted in narcissistic tendencies and borderline personality disorder?

See how rational thought gets a black eye through habit? Rationalization is actually irrationalizing !!!!

THANK YOU! What a great GIFT!

One question. Is it common to for non-manipulative people to exhibit these tactics when engaging manipulative people? I ask because I can see some of this applying to me in some scenarios where I have been in arguments with people, but also to my opponent who was really the aggressor (from my pov)

I just want to say, "Thank God for you!" I have a husband who is in the Federal Prison at the age of 52, and will not be out until he is 55. He has been in and out his entire life. We have been married for 6 yrs and only 2 of the yrs we have been physically together. Honestly, I have been miserable with him the entire time because he everything he does wrong (cheating, criminal behaviors, demanding sex because I'm his wife,etc.) He has shown me who he is so what is it about me that keeps me here

Sorry for pouring my heart out, but it makes me feel stagnant because I'm always worried about him being mad or disappointed with me. According to him, everything he does is justifiable. He reminds me of how much he has done for me and the household at every phone call, and constantly complains about he doesnt have in prison because I havent been able to send money like I use to. Although Im experiencing financial hardship, i feel more relaxed. Is that wrong to feel that way? Thank you!

I am in a disturbed relationship with my husband. I don't know if I will survive too long. Pray for me and my daughter to get out alive. The manipulation deception and constant misbehavior is unbearable

Thank you so much for this

Right after discovering I had been a life-long victim of narcissistic abuse (clinically diagnosed with PTSD, Adrenal fatigue...dissasociation...)-- I began to exhibit several highly neurotic behaviors in my heightened survival state...possibly some psychosis as well. My poor-boundried outgoing, bubbly, talkative self shutdown....and I became fearful of everyone (I mean EVERYONE)--so I isolated myself and went through "a dark 'year' of the soul" kind of existence... When some of my ccognitive dissonance became less...uhmmm...dissonant (don't know the term for this action...possibly "aware", or "integrated", or "clarity")..anger then took place of my dissonance (don't know if that anger was always there...repressed--but I had never felt so much anger on a conscious level before). In my anger (and no healthy support system)-- I made the unhealthy choice to feed my anger by actively manipulating my manipulators (this shook me out of the victim mentality I was experiencing and into some sense of empowerment)...I knew it wasn't healthy--but I also knew it was less harmful for me than the victim mindset I had been in...(And I knew my answer was in this thing called "boundries"--but I didn't have the tools to understand what that actually meant (felt like I was being told I need to build a rocket and launch myself to Venus!)... I deliberately and egregiously lied and manipulated my manipulators for several months...I was dealing w/ all covert manipulators--and my deliberate manipulations were not-so-covert...and they were increasing in severity...I finally got to a place where I broke down and thought "What am I DOING? Who am I BECOMING? This ISN''T me! This isn't who I want to be...So I got off that crazy-train... I own that I chose to behave the way I did (and I'm not even sure if I feel guilt or shame about it...It's just incredibly sad and unfortunate for all involved--but I think I see it as a lesson in my messy, uncomfortable, gut-wrenching, soul-stretching evolution of healing myself....still flushing this idea out, though. And now I am currently in the middle of an ugly divorce...and I want to tell my attorney about my unhealthy, manipulative behaviors during my 8-month crazy-train experience....BUT I don't know how to do this without sounding legitimately insane...the only way I can think of doing this is by providing a detailed explanation...kind of like I'm doing here... I believe my behavior was reactive towards my long-term manipulators (and possibly reactive to my own PTSD imaginatIion....not sure...)...but I believe the root cause to be the abuse of my manipulators--and that if I accept any root cause responsibility (which was my OLD codependent behavior) then I might just be gaslighting myself. I don't know.... So my question is...when is an "explanation" considered to be an "excuse?"

Great video thank you

I disagree here, sometimes the excuses are legitimate. Sometimes instigating a provocation results in a man beating his wife, and their wife does not realize that SHE DID DO SOMETHING WRONG. So you cant really have it ALL or ONE.

I believe a lot of human behavior is from the animal kingdom. read "Naked Ape". It really helped me understand a lot. Dominance, territoriality especially the out of line male attitude seems to fit the dominant show in the animal world. What to do about it is another story. If a pet is acting up put them on a leash, set limits, take away a prized item.

How do I determine the difffernce between someone’s who playfully selfish here or there....and someone who’s a consciousness manipulater by nature?

what about when it's a teenage child who has learned this from witnessing and being on the receiving end by a disordered parent? i am noticing some of this with my son. I am a divorced (ex-husband NPD) single mother and my 16year old is now with me full time after being a victim of his fathers rage. My son is a good kid, and struggles mightily with an anxiety disorder. But i am seeing some of these tactics in him, and not sure how to respond. i have enormous compassion, as well as newly developed fear of enabling it.

Forgive, but avoid and move on.

wish I could talk to u my ex wont admit hes ex 1st of all and does all this stuff u said and other things too.. I live beside him so I have to see him and ive tried being friends there is a bit of time not much but then hes a jerk ball again... cant go more into it on here

Your welcome :o) Can you suggest any of your other books? I need help healing and moving on! thanks x x

Thank you for the videos...

yes, very, thank you

Dr., are people who have "character disturbance" deep down unhappy? Are they "suffering" from their disorder as do the neurotic? I'm a bit neurotic and these types of people wreak hell in my love life. Are women more likely to have this character disturbance, as they were also the more neurotic ones a 100 or so years ago? PLEASE respond. I've been hanging on your words. I was brow beat like you wouldn't believe growing up, and finally, thanks to you, I'm beginning to understand others.

I help this guy on a voluntary basis, he took it to another level and started asking me for rides so he could meet his girlfriend so that she wouldn't have to drive another ten miles to meet up with him. NO! He's an idiot. Next I helped him out one evening and he said, "You saved me, your my savior." I'm no ones savior. He's an idiot! Then he tried to get me to drive sixty miles one evening at 7:30, again I told him no. The reason behind his request was because his girlfriend was uncomfortable and so I should make her comfortable. Not my job!

...planning to buy your book!!

That's why they are making an excuse . how sick these people are ...WOW!

So my question is, if you are around a manipulator and they want to change, is the best way to put them on a spiritual path...how is the behavior changed?

OK Doctor Simon, The reverse psychology of your example is also No excuse when used as a cover, giving an excuse or rationalization, & repeatedly denying what they do > driving a person crazy with their childish antics, pushing buttons they know is "wrong".. they have been told a zillion times not to "tell me how to drive or where to go when I've been a million times" -- type of example. They make up (out of no where - schemed) that you asked where to go, and NOT so! These tactics are crazy making for arguments... not good while you are driving to DISTRACT the driver. Almost got into a deadly accident over this tactic. Is it manipulation, control or just bad childish behavior of the irrational narcissist?

This individual does see a therapist. Well, a batterers group. But like you said, therapist are notorious for becoming fooled into thinking that their excuses are just. Making themselves out to be the victim. So the therapist will show that he's "made progress" or is "improving" but he's not. I believe that he is just using the knowledge of the sessions to make himself more knowledgable to avoid taking responsibity or change for that matter. But I agree. They have to WANT to change.