corrections: -Netanyahu was born in Israel -Chiquita is a banana company, not soda lol

The circular reasoning of “we killed their loved ones and then they fought back so we are justified in killing their loved ones because they are violent.”

Tanner is so articulate. He’s exacting and precise about the words he chooses to illustrate ideas and it is helpful for an never-mo, like myself, to understand how doctrine has been rationalized and justified over history. It’s a useful understanding to have bc we can see how it shows up in contemporary life and politic.

"a lack of imagination" is exactly how I've pushed back on people who support mass death as a solution to cultural and political problems. Interesting to hear it here as well.

Constantine not Charlemagne was the Roman emperor who converted to Christianity. Charlemagne is considered to be the father of Germany and France.

56:55 lol you guys seem to be forgetting that Chiquita is the company responsible for the term ‘Banana Republic’. Would love a deep dive on South/Central American neoliberalism from the Mormon and missionary goals perspective.

I NEED to read Braiding Sweekgrass next! My mentor gave it to me after a brutal electoral loss we had, and I know she’s a wise human!

Yesss, I love hearing people shout out braiding sweetgrass!! Robin Wall Kimmerer’s sister was my professor in university and is now a treasured mentor ❤ This author deserves all the hype.

7:23 only this far in, but just wanna say thank you for mentioning how the USA is the biggest propaganda producer. I'd even say Canada is a close 2nd (as someone who lives there).

Braiding Sweetgrass is included as an audiobook in Spotify now! I was able to listen to it there. It was so good!!

Hi friends! Great video, and just wanted to say that I'm Jewish Israeli (pro-Palestinian though) and would love to chat about the topic from the actual Israeli perspective if you'd like more info

Nothing like pregaming church with my parents with some Zelf On the Shelf

President Nelson saying that gathering Israel is the most important thing we should be doing feels so much more terrifying now that I’m away from the church. The church and its 100bilion dollars is unable to recognize this genocide. They are built from the same key components.

Just leaving a comment due to the number of commentors challenging some details of a very open long conversation. I want to say i appreciate you talk that sounded to me like a genuine concern about the use of religious and ethno nationalist talking points that are used to excuse current day conquests. As alway, these discussions are never black and white. And i appreciate you adding to its depth by talking about it from your perspective and personal experience of watching history repeat itself.

Thank you, your perspectives never fail to open up my mind.

I want to comment for the sake of the algorithm, but on this subject, I really feel that I cannot safely contribute without saying something that will not have all the context I want to keep in. So just to say that I appreciated (enjoyed seems a bit light for the subject, but I felt I learned some context, and did enjoy the less directly death-y tangents) this video, I think it is entirely appropriate that this subject takes an hour and half to talk about, even without getting all the way into the weeds, and if you aren't aware of Some More News, I really appreciated (again... enjoyed is a bit much on this subject) their video-essay on all the terrible justifications used in the current word-I'm-not-sure-KZfaq-won't-delete-my-comment-for-but-uneven-conflict. So, basically, thanks, recommendation if you haven't watched or listened to that video-essay, and for the algorithm.

Thank you, thank you for this conversation!! I’ve been thinking how ripe the ex-Mormon/ex-cult space is for this particular subject. High control religions have a direct connection to these other institutions of control (colonialism, capitalism, anti-black racism, etc.) so it seemed a little hypocritical not to at least discuss the genocide of Palestinians and their land. I appreciate it so much!

I’m so glad your speaking up! 🎉thank you!

yeeessssss thank you so much for speaking to this!!!!!!!!!! Lol haven't even watched yet, stoked stoked stoked

Thank you for making this video! I’ve started reading Braiding sweetgrass for your recommendation ❤

Dan reacting to the cat vocalizing and then just petting at the end 😂 love it.

This episode is one of the best. Tanner connected a lot of dots for me and Sam dropped some wisdom. I deeply appreciate you both. I believe the world can change for the better and the work you do is part of creating a better future

Guys. I have a mind blowing correction to offer. Netanyahu is from Philadelphia. As in Philadelphia Pennsylvania USA.

Great video!

Could you do more on deconstructing the state? I really enjoy how insightful you are and how helpful your background is to these conversations!

50:01 the saddest part is that it’s not a lack of hope for humanity that makes them believe that Palestinian civilians and Palestinian children are all (future) terrorists, but lacking to even see the humanity in others you see as your enemy. dehumanizing people has always been a popular way to justify to yourself/to others your genocidal believes.

I’m trying to keep it together while watching this. I just want to say thank you so much. 💛 I really appreciate you guys. I’ve been trying to find ExMormon influencers who agree that there is a genocide happening against the Palestinians. I’m PIMO (Physically In mentally out of the church.) (I’m not able to officially leave the church yet.) I am still unable to leave because, I am chronically ill, mentally ill, also Autistic & have Adhd, unable to work, have to live off of social security, while living with my all true believing Mormon family.) (One of my parents also works for the church leaders directly.) (2 of my siblings also work for the church as as well.) (I will tell them I am leaving once I am somehow able.) I found out the truth about Mormonism in 2022. I now have found out everything possible not only about the church, but also about this genocide. Knowing the truth and not being able to say what I truly feel with the people around me has made me beyond mentally & physically exhausted. (& I’m already exhausted because I’m chronically ill.) So I truly mean it when I say that both of you speaking up about this, has genuinely helped me feel less alone. 💛

TYSM for this video ❤

Zionism is just sparkling manifest destiny. Sincerely, an Indigenous person born in occupied Coast Salish territory

Braiding Sweetgrass is BRILLIANT. A much harder book that faces similar topics & still manages to be empowering is Legacy: Trauma, Story and Indigenous Healing by Suzanne Methot. Definitely have something to cuddle handy but please give it a read!

I appreciate the two of you having this long and thoughtful conversation and for showing how this "issue" is not different or unique or deserving of a completely different standard that we accept for everything else. #freepalestine

Ugh, I tried to “like” Romney too, because your guys’ video was so great, and because my super regressive MAGA father dislikes him so I figured he was doing something right 🙃 but then I found out that Romney is in deep deep cahoots with the troubled teen industry (basically helped found it) so that reaaally slammed my breaks.

I love you guys🐳🌈🌸

Immigrant here from Latin American to the US and looking at NYC or cities like London it’s amazing true feats of engineering and civilization …. Built off the back of imperialism and colonization, exported wealth and resources .

I have never looked forward to a July 4th in my life before, but I soooo am this year! Happy liberation from the Tories Day to you Brits! Labour is being projected to win anywhere from 400-460ish seats of the 650 total seats in the House of Commons. I wish Labour wasn't so TERFy, but it's still miles better than the Tories. Speaking of the Tories, there's a very small chance they might not even be the official opposition, depending on how many seats they lose! There's a small chance the centrist LibDems (who are actually better than Labour on trans people and the EU) might end up w/ more seats than the stupid Tories! (No, I'm not British; just very into politics)

My sister has recommended Braiding Sweetgrass for years. Thanks for the nudge :)

Great video

44:35 I think astrology sucks because everyone needs to create their own religion! They have to tie their meanings to FACTS! But I'm not saying anything about astrology in my personal life! Too much to say about the American exceptionalism delusion!

You tell better stories ❤

40:37 oh! The Bible tells me A LOT about the SUBCONSCIOUS of the people who wrote it!!! 💀💀💀💀💀

Yay, another Zelph video.

The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas And The Dawn of Everything Are two more things to read

omg I love that you listen to binchtopia!!

How many times is saying “literally” necessary?

fuck yall are eloquent

I appreciate your good intentions, but you kind of spoiled it. I didnt expect much, but the title refers to a some very interesting connections between “mormonism, zionism and white supremecy”. But as Samantha said - you guys are not well informed on the palestinian-israeli conflict. It really shows.. as to mormonism&zionism -you can look into orson hyde and byu jerusalem - stick to your niche… It is ok that you are not educated on the conflict, but before standing on the podium and “baring your testimony” on opinions that make you feel good, you should do your reaserch. Wikipedia could save embarressement on netanyahu not been born in israel, which was corrected in the comments (his father imigrated from poland when the father was 10. No “financial investment firms” where involved). This is Not a great example of “settler collonialism” - but of basing opinions on poor factual foundations. The following claim at 31:30 is blatently false - and while not being sure of your claim, you settle on it as being factual. No settlements are being built on “newly genocided land” in gaza. Btw, you can not “genocide” a land. What you are alleging is called “ethnic clensing”. As to the genocide clame: no, israel is not committing genocide. Don’t believe me. Belive the international criminal court who rulled on the subject. Yes, what is happening in gaza is horrific, and Must end. The carnage is caused by carelessness and reclessnes, but also due to battlefield conditions created by hamas. The history of jews in palestine is long and complicated. They where never under “roman colloniasation” -they where under imperial rule, and the distinction is important. As imperialism continued in palestine untill 1948. Roman, byzantine, arab, mongolian, crusader ottoman and brittish. The use of the “collonialism” prism is incorrect for the middle east. When zionism began, palestine was under the rule of the ottoman empire. One cannot colonize an empire, as one cannot colonize the usa. During this time the “indigenous” jews lived in the cities and not agrarian communities. European jews who “collonised” palestine setteled on lands bought from their owners - mostly in the uninhabitable lowlands infested my malaria. This continued under british rule untill 1948, when the british left behind a civil war between jews and palestinians. When the war ended, lines where drawn on maps between israel, lebanon, syria, jordan and egypt. What is now known as “palestine” was concoured and occupied by egypt and jordan. A lot of people where displaced, mostly palestinians - yet israel became a mixed nation - and no jews survived when their settlements were conquored. These are the internationaly undisputed “1949 ceace fire boarders” accepted for the 2 state solution. After the war israel was floded by jewish refugees (from an actaul genocide). Yes, they setteled on palestinian lands. That was the way of the world back then. In 1967 esscalation lead to war, and israel coqoured what is now expected to become the palestinian state, including gaza. These lands where settled by israelis, which is considered by most countries as a war crime. Gaza was settled but all israeli settlments in the gaza strip where dismantled when the israeli occupation of gaza ended in 2005 (the occupation ended, yet israel kept a choke on gaza, surrounding it from three sides. The forth side is controlled by egypt). Now is the time to mention - israel is not exterminating and is not at war with palestine or the palestinian people. In 2007 HAMAS took control of the gaza strip by force. After winning a majority in parlament in 2006, they erradicated the opposition by bloodsheed and terror, becoming the gazan dictatorship. Israel hendeled it wrong since then. I cannot justify the policies of israel towards gaza in the following years, most of them under Benjamin Netanyahu. Do you know who Yihia Sinwar is? He is the head of HAMASin gaza. The dictator. A fundementalist religious zealot. A jihadist with actual aspirations for genocide. He rose throgh the ranks as an enforcer, personally murdering suspected spies and homosexuals within the Hamas, with his own hands. Oh tanner, you would be executed within days if you where a palestinian in gaza. Keep that in mind. You can see Hamas pretty much as ISIS. The name HAMAS means “the islamic resistance”. Not freeing palestine - islamic jihad. Hamas rose and raised Benjamin Netanyahu in the 90’s - bombing busses in israel in order to sabotage the peace process between israel and palestine leading toa two state solution. Israel became disillusioned about peace and was consumed by hate and nationalism, and netanyahu used devide and conqour between FATAH ruled west bank and HAMAS rulled gaza to sabatoge a palestinian state. Even a year ago, few israelis could contemplate a peacefull solution, while palestinians in gaza grew desperate and angryunder Hamas rule and israeli sanctions. In the past few years a peace treaty was cooking between israel and saudi arabia. Hamas would not have this. Sabotaging peace between israel and saudi arabia is considered a major factor in Hamas’s choice of date for Yihia Sinwar’s masterplan - invading israel, conquoring land, and exterminating the jews. At dawn of october 7th, on a jewish holiday, thousands of HAMAS warriors crossed the border, disabled idf defences and proceeded to invade the nearby israeli towns, jewish and arab, and massacre defenceless citizens in their homes. Men, woman, childeren and the elderly were brutally murderd. Shot, decapitated, burnt, raped and posted on social media. People where forced at gunpoint to unlock their phones and access facebook so their killers could brocast their killing live to all their contacts. Or to brodcast live a teenager forced to go door to door, knocking, begging his neighbours to open, only for them to be murdered. Than came the civilian masses to loot the towns. In gaza, people celebrated in the streets. Hundreds of people where taken hostage back to gaza. Among them Kfir Bibas - a baby, who had lived free for 262 days. He has been a prisoner for 265 days, at the time of writing. Towns were decimated, entire families murdered. Wholesale rape and murder. The following day israel was attacked from lebanon, syria, iraq, iran and yemen. Over 100,000 israelis are now refugees as well, as entire regions of israel are still under daily bombardment, mostly from lebanon. My town was attacked by drones from iraq just two nights ago. Israel did not decide to go colonising and building high rises on new land. We literally are fighting for our lives. We did not “enter a refugee campin disguise just to massacre” - you are referring to a hostage release operation that escalated. Hostages who were been prisoners of a doctor, and a journalist, reporting live from gaza. This is a brutal neighborhood, and war is allways barbaric. Hamas built expansive military infrastructure at he expence of their own people, in and under their homes, heavily leaning on schools and hospitals for their tunnes, rocket launchers, factoris and bunkers. They have not worn uniforms since october 7th, hiding among civilians, not using them as human sheilds but as human sacrifices. Hamas is well stocked with shelter, food, fuel and ammunition for their army, while leaving the civilians at israels mercy. Israel is careless and recless with palestinian lifes, and is irresponsible with hamanitarian issues and seems to have no plan for restoring peace and wealfare in gaza when the war ends. Furthermore, netanyahu seems to be making decisions based on political survival. The situation is complicated. There are many evils and countless tragedies that must end yesterday. Apllying simple black and white narratives to complex issues will not help anyone understand better, and will not help bring forth peace. I focused more on the israelli narrative here, but i am well aware of the many injustices inflicted upon the palestinian people by zionism. Im not sure you are.. and yes, many israelis, evan in the government are “jewish supremacists” and do fantasise about genocide and real estate. They are a major problem. But i think uninformed conversastion just falls back on our own biases, and may even make things worse.. I don’t expect anyone to care much (or read this mormon-stories-length reply), but if anyone would like and honest discussion - here i am

Bill Gates ex wife, Melina is awsome. I recently saw Elon Musk complaining about her giving away too much money.

I like you guys, and I don’t like Netanyahu or the Israeli gov or military+settler violence at all, but your understanding of Jewish and Israeli history is poor and reductive. It wasn’t just a handful of ‘agrarian communities’. I personally know Jews whose families have been in Jerusalem for hundreds of years at least. And the rest weren’t just ‘investors and military’ - the vast majority were fleeing persecution in various other lands, mostly North Africa and Middle East, but yes, also Europe. Refugees, stateless, many victims of violence, pogroms and genocide in those places. Whether or not Zionism as an idea was originally conceived as a framework born out of European nationalisms by a handful of ideologues (in the dire and desperate context of a Europe increasingly hostile to the very idea of Jews even remaining alive) says nothing whatsoever about the actual reality of how most Jews came to be there in that land today - which was certainly not as privileged white settlers. It just feels unfair and disingenuous to act like it’s anything like the same as ‘white colonialism’, even if it’s fashionable to say so, when so many Israelis have recent family histories of fleeing horrors in so many places. You can rightly be concerned about current events but this kind of rewriting of modern Jewish history is painful to hear you repeat.

I feel like the repeated suggestions that Israeli Jews are analogous to American settlers are deeply misleading. Jews are indigenous to the region. Whatever the historicity of King David and Solomon, Jews certainly lived there. I honestly don’t understand how Christianity is described as a religious response to Roman colonialism in the same video that Jewish ties to the land are denied. Christianity emerged from a colonized Jewish state. While I do believe that the settler colonial paradigm in reference to Israel can be accurate (though it gets strained when discussing whiteness), it is not really accurate in the way you’ve described it here.

I have somehow, without trying, avoided most real information about this war. I feel conflicted about if I should feel good or bad about that. I've seen a video from Carah about it, but most of what I've seen is coming from Sam Harris, who is one saying that there is actually Palestinian propaganda that's spreading a lot, including in reports of the number of people who have died. I'm curious to watch this since I've felt, even as a pretty liberal person, somewhat in favor of Israel, though not completely. Admittedly, this is mostly based on Sam Harris' views, since I haven't had a lot of exposure to much else. I'll be watching with an open mind. I know most around me support Palestine and I'm just assuming they've seen a lot that I haven't.

KZfaq is definitely gonna shadow ban this one.

Is this a gay and lesbian thing?

8:46 she admitted she knows very little about Israeli politics yet she’s talking about Israel and the war like shes an expert, typical hamasnic behavior

ok bye! learn what genocide means and maybe i will come back. this is just wrong