Not the Stalin lovers 😢

Who?

I both love and hate that this is a very real possibility

Riding one of the worm gods?

We’ve killed him so many times over destiny 1 - destiny 2 and I swear the traveler slipped him a ghost while we weren’t looking.

In theory yes but lore wise it was said the the traveler is the gardener, the witness was the knife and the winnowner is the veil but why was the witness the knife and who is the true bigger threat would that mean who ever is the winnowner could possibly be a way bigger threat then we think and when?

@@btkdarkness3756well, you see, Randal is just The Winnower in disguise. It’s why he always comes back

Kelgorath bros about to feast

@@xadiret8452it would be funny if Kelgorath surpasses Xivu

Not gonna lie I’d love if Kelgorath is just that guy who never gives up and does become the best no matter how hard we try tbh I’d love that there’s an enemy who refuses to stay down and then starts making good arguments against us while rallying forces

​@@peterdubinsky5389 Kelgorath is beginning to get real, like him somehow being capable of FCKING WIELDING HIMSELF, him now being a taken but still maybe retaining his "self".

We need Taniks and Kelgorath to go to War. They would never truly die.

Ah so that's what Black Hot has been doing.

Bhulk, The First Disciple

Not gonna lie, that be pretty sweet 😂

The Witness but Dummy Thicc. They could rule the universe.

The swolness

I want a civil war in the city that'd be so cool

I completely agree. The Yet Bigger Death Star has proven not to be effective, just frustrating at best

I dont think what you said makes sense lore wise no other antagonist is as big as the witness and in sol there will be almost always be someone trying to rule it. Same thing in real life it wouldnt make sense to have none of these power hungry species not try and take over and everyone needs a leader thats why armys have generals and countrys have presidents or rulers just because a president dies or dictator dies does that mean its forced to have another one?

@@GKelpy The point of beating the witness is the guardians become the ruling force in the Sol system. It is not uncommon in war for a movement to fall apart after their figurehead is killed or defeated. Sure, it doesn't all come to a complete stop, but what's left becomes fractured and disorganised until they just kinda give up. This is how wars end. No one wants to fight just to keep losing. And on a more important note... It's just boring to keep making up bigger badder things to kill. It creates a never ending treadmill of problems that halt the sense of narrative progression. As long as destiny has been around, guardians have been fighting back the darkness to take back the Sol system. It would be nice if that actually happened. Otherwise what's the point in having a story if it never moves forward?

I agree with this. The thing to remember is that we didn’t even know of The Witness until Witch Queen. Of course there was “The Darkness”, but until Witch Queen we’ve basically had a continuous series of smaller figurehead antagonists rather than one big bad. Granted two of those were Savathun and Oryx, two of the most powerful beings in the universe, but the rest have basically been a series of fairly mundane, mortal enemies. There’s no reason we can’t go back to that. If the universe is always in existential peril, it’s never in existential peril.

It seems like it would be pretty hard to code that. It would be like an AI crucible, right? Unless the enemy guardians transform into big bosses for final fights.

@@ClaraDunn-rf4pf Savathun and the Hive lightbearers are a good example of how it could be done. The difference is that they would be human/exo/awoken and perhaps be able to use any subclass and perhaps some exotics. It would be kind of similar to AI Crucible, but with changes. I don't know how to code, but I guess it's possible, since they did something similar with the Lucent Hive.

dumb idea. we dont need warlords v2

@AnyOther-Name powerful guardians will be all that's left after the witness get clapped

That would change the game’s rating, which means it’s almost definitely never going to happen

Mannnnn, I wanted her to be my ghost. Imagine having a borderlands character as your buddy.

The Typhon Imperator

I remember making a similar observation a few years back haha. Think it was just before the time Rasputin shot down The Almighty which was also just kinda hanging out there before they sent it plummeting towards Earth lol. Had the distinct impression that we were starting to accumulate random ships just littering the system.

I believe that Wyverns are actually true combat units

@@gavinhendricks8689 What he means is a true military force as a whole. But yes, you are right the Wyverns are combat units.

@@gibster9624and not even the scary ones

Who are the vex? Aren’t they those metal guys who are randomly thrown into season and dlc with little to no story reason? The same guys with a really distinct art style for their architecture, terraformed entire worlds, who now are more synthwave tron people? Ah sorry the vex have always been my favorite faction but it’s so depressing to see them just kinda exist to throw some variation into a season and have never had a true focus placed on them. My worst fear is that will happen after Final Shape which personally I’m not going to be playing

The vex suddenly becoming the main villains is laughable. They of all races should have a major role in the LvD saga due to the Sol divisions lore on the Gardner and widower plus they were the last enemies we fought at the end of D1's campaign. Making them just randomly appear to fight us with no real story significance and then suddenly making them the main villains is poor writing.

We have a spy in the lines

Lol, scribbling by who? Aint nobody left

Ah yes the all mighty telesto we got to be careful and not make it mad or it will break all of destiny forever

He might also have things to do with psions uprising, they kinda have shared history

@@nankaq9909if he’s one of the bosses in the raid then maybe he’ll try and take over the Monolith with pure psychic powers, and remember he commands the Nightmares too

Nun of them truly die death I’d irrelevant when u scale above it

I do hope we see more of Nezarec. I'm wondering if he'll ever get his OG body back... lol. To be honest, I was not too psyched with the design we got in Root of Nightmares. It wasn't... horrible, y'know, but there were more than a few times when I'd look at him running around our DPS plate and couldn't help but think that he legit looked like some kinda chicken or a fat dude in a red jumpsuit. His is a character that had a lot of speculation built around him over the years. Heck I remember people theorycrafting about him since vanilla D2. Over the years we had a few hints here and there, very ominous stuff, but nothing huge until close to Lightfall and we gathered some of his body parts n everything... So I figured, if he did show up, he'd be a tad more intimidating... lol.

It'd also be funny if Banshee just woke up on a random tuesday remembering some access code to a backup warmind that he kept in case Rasputin failed

There is something about Rasputins code being inside the dog we found

@@nankaq9909I don’t know if Rasputin would’ve planned that far ahead. But he did make protocols and contingency plans. Maybe he made one for us to rebuild the Warsats after his death? He can process information and make calculations in nanoseconds, so it’s not too far fetch’d to imagine he’d made blueprints and instructions left for Ana to find, in his last days alive. But yeah, considering how Banshee remembers and forgets stuff, it’d be a funny coincidence.

I love this idea. We could build a new Warmind. It wouldn't be as powerful as Rasputin but it'd definetly serve well as surveilance and early warning system at least. I propose we name it "Fellwinter" after Rasputin's son.

I could see Toland learning to wield Stasis, and whatever the final, third darkness power will be. Not Strand, as it requires one to relinquish control and let ones will flow freely, without worry, and see the connectivity between themselves, and others. Toland wouldn’t subscribe to such views. So he could become a Hive God that would wield Stasis, Hive magic, and whatever the final darkness element may be. The Worm Gods would be looking to a new god they can count on to protect them, empower them, and act in their behalf. They may have begun to lose faith in Xivu, while Savathun is a heretic. The Worms could be desperate enough to reform his body and soul, and make him a Hive god that takes over Xivu’s Throneworld after we slay her, and kill off most of her forces on Torrobaital. The only question left is, what god would he be? I doubt a Hive god of war. Doesn’t seem like Toland’s style. Perhaps a Hive God of Chaos? Toland was mad, and chaos and madness often coincide.

@@garrettviewegh9028 In the lore we've seen Toland referred to as both a Void Walker, and a Sunsinger; combine that with his apparent mastery of death, and assuming he learned Stasis on Luna before his death... He'd be pretty far along on mastering many of the elements. In several lore tabs Eris is pretty angry that Toland never told anyone about the Lunar Pyramid cause he had to have known before he led them down into the pit. I've had a theory for a while based on the lore of the Deathsingers and Toland that long story short, I think the death song is used to "take" things by ripping their souls out of them. I think Toland "Took" himself as part of his obsession with knowledge. The death song lyrics in their few instances in lore all include the names of the Worm Gods, like it's a sacrificial mechanism. What greater act of 'Stasis born control' could there be than taking your own soul? He's been very upfront that he's using us for some purpose and leading us to slaughter like a lamb, but... the proverbial slaughter keeps not happening... unless we're not strong enough yet for him to outlast us and prove his superiority, in much the same way Eris took Savathun's power. I agree Stand isn't in keeping with his character, but Void+Solar+Stasis+SoulFire= Profit? Most of Toland's rants end up being annoyed that people don't understand the ontological truth about the universe that "Things of higher stability survive than their lower stability counterparts." It's the same concept as Evolution by Natural selection, and close but not the same as Sword Logic. It might seem an academic dispute, but sword logic requires killing; outlasting the other party because you're just that much better than them that you don't need to kill them is...elegant. A soul that exists because it defined itself to exist is a pretty elegant para-causal tautology to circumvent that whole pesky natural world, and right in line with what the forger of the Bad Juju would find hilarious.

It's a sidearm that fires rockets

Pragmatic allied vex under the passive suggestion of Asher maybe?

@@iamoctonatepretty sure Asher was erased in a lore tab after the Vexcaliber mission. Might have misread/misremembered it though

@@NightshadeDE Misraaks said he went into the vex nexus and said Asher likely would make it but Asher is probably still around.

"That's a gambit the Nine would have to foot the bill for and I doubt they would willingly give up that kind of power"- My Hunter

It sounds crazy but I think the drifter works for the pyramid fleet and he is playing two sides of the war or the nine are working with him who work for the witness I think he is an outright traitor without showing it

Idk if it's even possible to kill condensed spirits into one person

We never grow in power as guardians really thats how we can go from killing Oryx and still having trouble with people like Eramis y'know? Our power really is just prep time and exploiting weaknesses rather than just being uber powerful I mean we are powerful but we aren't like Oryx or Xivu casually shitting on planets.

My guess is that the raid will involve us shattering the Witness' component souls back into the aether. Darkness and Light are re-released into the universe instead of being concentrated in to two entities, and now we have to deal with all the smaller factions that want to take advantage of that. Use all the characters we have to build up new smaller-scale but still important threats. Crow finds out the Sol Divisive are using the energy bursts to try and create a new Black Garden. Clovis Bray's head creates a plan to use the Darkness and Radiolara to copy himself to all the Exos so we need to help Ana and Elsie to stop him. Eramis and Misraaks find a lost colony of Eliksni who had isolated themselves on Pluto worshipping a Darkness artifact that's been reactivated.

Not exactly after all it takes 6 guardians to fight a raid boss. But there are other things out there in the universe. The witness is the strongest but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other contenders out there.

This can be fixed with one simple solution: un-retconning the Gardener and Winnower.

the nine are not related to the awoken nor related to the Distributary, the Nine have their own metaphysical thought realm and are infact strings of primordial dark matter that thread throughout the solar system each being a representation of the major celestial bodies of the solar system. the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus. strictly speaking Mara has had dealings with the Nine through Orin and Xur in regard to Skolas, the Rabid

@@fangslore9988 i did not say they are related to the Awokrn, I was talking Bout the Awoken overlords that were left behind in the Distributary

@@MW2proification the distributary is sealed from the parent uiniverse the guardian lives in, it was only Mara who was able to bring back her loyal awoken from the distributary other awoken don't have that power, her exposure to light and dark has gifted her with amazing and powerful paracausle abilities as she is the first awoken and the one who remade all the others on her ship into awoken when they reached the distributary, and remember she created the distributary from the chaos of light and dark. and there are no awoken overlords the awoken in the distributary are led by Mara's mother

Night King? Is he from Game of Thrones? Or WoW?

There is speculation that the ahkmakara (probably butchered that) are coming back which could be just as big a threat

Agreed. Once we found out the Witness wasn’t a primordial being I surmised Bungo opened a window to write some primordial/elder god/s into the lore

@@ILUVsSUNDROP There’s some Final Shape collectors edition lore where Misrax’s daughter Eido observes a conversation that took place before the Witness was formed by a faction called the Consensus, that is separate from the Witnesses

The Winnower is a concept invented by the Witness's people that they desired & would embody the concept once they became the Witness, & Eris (in Arrivals) treats them as the same, as do others. Even if "the Winnower" is a separate Entity (an Entity at all) it doesn't make sense for it to show up when the Light & Dark saga is over

​@@BrazarBthe Light and Dark come from one reality level above us, Unveiling doesn't disprove that

@@BrazarB Not true, nowhere is the Winnower stated to be a concept created by the pyramid race. Mara Sov, Saint 14, and Eris morn (in her hive form), all tell of the Winnower on their independent discovery in conversations not speaking about the Witness race, Mara says her father is the darkness, In Saint’s dream his mother(Gardener) says his violent nature comes from his father (the creator of the sword logic), and Eris after engaging heavily in the sword logic can hear a voice in the deep, that isn’t the Witness otherwise she would have pointed it out, so the Winnower is eluded to on his own, separate from the Witness race. As for the next saga, the Gardener might die in the Final Shape as Imaru can hear her screams, and we can hear them in Garden of Salvation’s mini clarity statue, the Witness will probably kill her, or we might? leaving the Winnower to gain supreme control over the universe

I hope so. Tne Nine kidnapped a human to communicate for them, I believe Vex are more than capable of finding such metodes, if they need

I could see lucent hive trading light with the worshipping vex in order to achieve a greater goal, which might lead to vex getting a bit more access to the light than it's safe for the entire universe

The Vex hate anyone who isn’t them. That’s why they terraform everything into cubes. They followed the Witness because Vex are the best contenders in a Dark world. They’ll do the same with Light. They were able to kill Saint, they might do another light draining mind.

They'd probably be called the Sol Ascendance and be lead by Asher.

"No reason to fight him except for self-preservation." ...? Are you just ignoring the part where the Final Shape will erase everything the Witness deems to not have a purpose in its designs? Here what that sounds like: " The big bad has not done anything to ME, personally. Why should I stop him from rewriting reality in its image?"

@@Catalyst375 I hear you, but not quite what I mean. When I say "he hasn't done anything," I'm referring to the witness as a character, and his reputation as a villain. Think of Negan from the walking dead. One of the greatest villains in the series, imo. But that was because of the build-up of everything he did before the final fight. The witness just doesn't come of as that big of a threat. It didn't have to be "personal," just impactful. Something to make fans WANT to see him get beaten. And yes, "self-preservation." Preservation for themselves, their friends, families, homes, and way of life. Rather than just submitting to what the witness wants. The same goes for the awoken, cabal, and eliksni. Zavala, and many others have lost faith, and stopped relying solely on the traveler. Especially since many of them lost people they care about, and it did nothing in response. So why would anyone fight for it now?

Toland for Prez too.

I'm unironically a fan of this idea, but imagine this: The major villians in Destiny's franchise: - A civilization merged into entity, seeking purpouse in this world and seeing it in ending all changes in the world - A horse(?)

My bet is on the Nine, I'm sure their attention will no longer be needed elsewhere when there's an army for adoption in sol

Maybe. Maybe Bungie has Guardians fighting new and old threats that try to claim this power vacuum. But, it also feels like we may explore worlds beyond Sol as well. Whatever threats and challenges we face after the Final Shape, this new saga would be the perfect excuse for Bungie to go beyond Sol, and see just what new threats await us, and what worlds ravaged by the Hive, lie in wait.

@@garrettviewegh9028 see that and what I purposed goes hand in hand, there's so much potential with a darkness civil war and plenty to explore. Ruins of torobatl and maybe a source of the vex, so on

This might, suprisingly, turn out to be more interesting than wars of numerous tractions

... and then they'd backstab us as soon as they gather enough data on the light to effectively destroy it

I believe he wasn't in the trailers because they were out before the season finale

@@nankaq9909 yeah you re probably right

Say it louder please, for ones in the back

He could use certain resources, like the Vex, or Neomuna’s technology, to become greater than the machine god he’d envisioned himself as via Rasputin. Utilizing the darkness somehow, Clovis could command the Vex from inside the CloudArk. Then again, a contender to him, could be the rumored Vex AI copy of Maya Sundaresh, which could be stronger than Clovis. She’d have the Veil, a portion of the Vex, and maybe even the Taken, under her command. Keep in mind, this could end up being a copy of the Maya that went mad with obsession as Clovis did. Not the original Maya that was also mad, but went into the Vexnetwork.

Episode of Mad Golden Age Scientists?