The 30 year old comment is James saying "you are old enough to know better". You guys took it as "you are too old"

It is crazy Growl making the defense that Nerf saying "Yo, don't overlap my stuns" and "I hate playing with this healer" or asking "which global did you just press" is not barking but JPC and Ellesmere saying "You didn't call it" is barking. Nerf called them out for their mistake, they called him out on his, and then he turned into a 5 year old with a tantrum. Nerf was the toxic one in this interaction - not the rest of the people. Even if Nerf got tilted from being called out on being non-verbal in an easy key, it is wild to just completely ignore them the rest of the key and after. It was clear JPC was fed up with Nerf being a baby.

I don't think telling someone to act their age is out of line when they are acting like a little child.

Was the "30 Years old" comment meant to come across as calling him old? I interpreted it more as "You're an adult, don't just mute, be mature about it"

I've been watching Ellesmere's stream on and off for some time now and whenever this sort of situation happens he has to take the brunt of the crap, the amount of shit he got thrown in his direction is beyond me

the age comment from James definitely came from the context of "you should act more mature about this" rather than plainly calling him old

cant wrap my head around thinking the "ur 30" comment is super toxic. hes just saying hes a grown man with kids acting like a child.

Let's be real we've all had a m+ gigga tilt for absolutely no reason

Big disagree with Growl here. I watch Ellesmere's stream on a regular basis and nerf is usually a giant dick and elles always rolls with the punches and tries to stay positive but honestly nerf is so toxic that Im surprised it did even last that long.

It doesn't matter what happened if Nerf was right or wrong. The fact is he was completely immature in his response.

My take after watching this hour long video on people I don't even know. Some tank named Nerf took an L and Growl took a bigger L.

Ellesmere seems like the glue holding this together, dude is a beast

WoW players being grown ass adults challenge impossible

as a healer i can say that when some one says "im dead" i do infact pull out everything in the book at them to be like but did you die? it is some sort of healing flex

The funniest part of this entire situation for me is that nothing even happened when they overlapped CCs lol. Didn't cause a death, wipe, deplete or anything and Nerf had a breakdown over it kek

Growl hitting that copium extra hard lol.

I love Growl, but he was trying way to hard to deflect the blame to "chat being ignorant." It doesn't take being a professional M+ player to see the issues that were going on here.

Yeah Growl is straight gaslighting here. Nothing that occurred deserved the offending action (going mic off headphones out). If Nerf was having such a tough time with the barking then he needs to be adult about it, either leave the team or share the growing frustration. Also, the fact that Growl feels he needs to come on and "explain" doesn't show loyalty, it shows this behavior is standard for this Nerf dude.

I don’t understand why any one thinks saying “you’re 30 years old…” is a crazy wrong thing to say. He’s literally just saying act your age, imagine being at your job and your co-worker just gives you the silent treatment? Dudes acting like a child, James was just saying like bro what are you doing? Get it together, you’re 30 years old not 17… y’all are super soft lol. This whole thing is stupid though tbh.

What I have noticed from watching a LOT of ellesmere keys; Nerf is great to he around when everyone is locked in, but he also loves going in on people for little mistakes, and loves to poke at people, but cannot take it at all.

Growl talks about the known bug that happens every key tilting the tank. What about when the tank told the healer to use another global instead of tiger palm to heal him, when he was on full HP with no instant vivify charge up or external up, while tiger palm is part of his healing, then told him to say every global he wants to use. Then made a single mistake the next pull by stunning in a moment of panic and got his head snapped off when it truly wasn't called. Then after pointing that out was told "I hate playing with you all the time". That's probably the most tilting shit you can have happen in a key as a healer, tanks being dumbasses who think you have to play perfectly to cover them, even when you truly had nothing left to move their hp. You have to remember most heals are balanced to heal DPS health bars, not tank ones which are generally 3-4x bigger. Honestly it just seems like the communication needs active work. It's fine to say things are hard, the way to fix it is to talk about what is happening, assign some responsibility. If Ellesmere is always accidently stunning first, and that's shitting you. Maybe move his stun to be first, or maybe micromanage it for him for a while, and accept that when you're not something is going to slip occasionally. Responsibility isn't about assinging fault or blame, it's about trying to solve a problem.

Growl acting like it being a high lvl M+ changes basic human social skills. Touch grass.

The irony of Max not understanding the 30+ y/o with kids comment is palpable

Important to get Growl on so I can know what the absolute worst fucking take on planet Earth is.

The amount of gaslighting Growl tried to do us UNREAL. Nerf in the wrong. End of story.

It doesnt even matter who messed up the CC. The reaction to the situation is what matters. Looking how they reacted to the mistake, its hard to not see that Nerf was in the wrong. Literal temper tantrum, toxic behavior. And then growl is explaining why Nerf got upset, but who cares? All temper tantrums come from someone being upset, but you're supposed to stop reacting like a child, as they explained, well before the time you're 30+ 😂

I have been a lawyer for 12 years and have never heard a worse argument than the one Growl made in this video.

If Nerf wasnt toxic every single Ellesmeres stream I watch I would agree with Growl. But since he is toxic its kinda funny 🙂

Growl taking Nerf's side is baffling. Nerf was 100% in the wrong from the start.

Growl takes literally the worst in this video, what even

I'm confused that JPCs comment about nerf being in is 30s is taken so harshly. I am also in my late 30s, but I just took it as JPC calling out that he should act his age and maybe be more mature about this rather than calling him ancient or something.

If the overlap wasnt a big deal, then why does nerf initiate the argument. Saying its not a big deal cause its a routine key then why call it out, people know not to overlap, there is no reason to call it out at that point. Its no wonder people respond with the same energy he gave out. But he dished it and couldnt take it. Everyone else tried to be respectful afterwards by trying to complete the key, James was even somewhat respectful in the way he decided not to stay in the group, and ellesmere took responsibility for the little mistake that was way overblown. But nerf didnt try to resolve the conflict he instead escalated it by leaving and ignoring his team. While its resonable to understand some of the frustration he feels as presented by Growl, its just not a mature way to deal with your peers.

I don't think the 30 year old comment is as big a flame as it was made out to be. I interpret it closer to you are to old to act like this. Not a dig at him being older.

The craziest thing is the whole video to me is Growl insisting that people don't apologize for mistakes. That seems like a super normal thing to me

Growl defending nerf is wild

The growl take is rough cause if he isnt going to call his stun out then its either person's guess who it should be, but Nerf blames Ellesmere immediately. It isnt a bullying thing, its just laziness on Nerf's end

holy shit, 20 mins of Growl just stroking Nerf lmao

Growl taking a huge L with his takes on this one. The entire basis of Growl's argument is surrounded with "probablys" even though this is consistent behavior that Nerf exhibits. Nerf was literally the first person to start freaking out about the overlapped stuns and then he starts making up scenarios in his head about what he did/didn't say after being called out for freaking out. And then going on to say that this team has been playing together for a long time, or at least some members of it, and the dude can't handle being called out for something and his response is to mute, unplug his headphones, completely silent, is totally childish. I wouldn't want to play with someone who has such a fragile ego like that regardless of how good they are. What gathering from this whole thing is that M+ players are completely unhinged and should maybe take some time away from the game to read a book or something.

Growls take was awful, imo. I know he wants to defend Nerf, but there just isn't any defending his actions there. Even in Nerfs own defense he called out why there's as much drama as there is. "Accountability". Now, as Max said, we don't know if they actually spoke to each other off stream, and if they did, great! If not, and he wants to call "chat" out for being low IO due to lack of accountability, seems like a case of hypocrisy. Growl calling out "chat" because most of us aren't doing 30+ keys is kind of cringe as well. It's true, 99.9% of us aren't doing keys at his level, but that doesn't mean we don't play in a similar fashion with people. Most people are playing with others that are around the same skill level. If that level is 25s or 16s, kind of beside the point. If a peer of mine, just as good as me, made a mistake, and I went non verbal comms for the rest of the key/night, you bet your ass they'd be pissed. Key level has nothing to do with it. He was acting childish by pulling that stunt. Also, when JPC made that comment about being "30 years old", that's exactly what he meant, stop acting like a bitch, own up to the mistake, and move on.

Never admit to being wrong, always gaslight the weak willed into thinking they were wrong

If we completely take out the fact that this is WoW or a video game, it's clear that Growl and Nerf are just terrible communicators and the people around them have just adjusted and gotten used to their toxicity. Constantly referring to the fact that people who aren't a high io just don't understand, and especially Growl referencing people not wanting to add rando's to their friends list is just a ton of deflection. When you're doing literally anything at a high level it's critical that you get feedback from your team if you want to improve. So Growl and Nerf repeatedly saying stuff like "Well yeah obviously we have to call things out when people make a mistake!!" is not untrue, but both of them are completely refusing to acknowledge HOW you give feedback. If you give valid feedback, but say it like a complete asshole and then mute yourself right after that's just terrible communication. You can tell someone they made a mistake without being a complete asshole about it, and 90% of the time people don't remember what exactly you said, they remember how you said it or how it made them feel. Nerf talking about people in chat not taking responsibility while simultaneously not acknowledging one single mistake he made in that interaction is wild.

Max modeling mature behavior is always my favorite. "When I'm wrong I instantly say it, and I'm not afraid of saying it" - this is turbo something I'm still working on, and we could probably all do better at 🙏

How did I know growl was gunna come in here and defend childlike behavior

Max is right about the tanks flaming healer thing. Sometimes healers could've done better and kept a tank alive, but almost never for DKs or DHs is that true while also them playing better wouldn't have made them survive too. Sucks to play those tanks and get those moments, but hating on the healer is just going to make them more stressed and probably toss the tank more heals than is needed, which is cringe for the dps.

Completely disagree with Growl here. Nerf can communicate like an adult, and admit he's having a tough time.

"No way you proc cheat on a trash pull and mute your mic for the rest of the whole fucking day." HAHAHAHAH I'm dead

How da hell is growl going to say OH chat doesn't have social skills! And then say it's too high of a standard to take accountability for your actions and behavior

Sounds like a "ok, not today it seems"-problem but not a disband. Completely irrelevant who was wrong though. The fuse was lit ;)

Nerf tanks the key, Ellesmere tanks Nerf.

The moment you said Driney goes silent when he gets tilted made my friend and I laugh. Our friend group used to raid with him way back in WOD and we still keep in touch. When you all got the world first Castle Nathria, he came on our giga dead server and flexed it for reactions. People not following the race thought it was fake lol

I have watched Ellesmere and crew A LOT and Nerf is just really bad at accepting any kind of responsibility for stuff going wrong. He will basically always blame Ellesmere, no matter what actually happened. JPC used to be bad as well, those 2 basically feeding into each other but he has gotten a lot better recently.

Growl is just straight up gaslighting here... I could have related to what Nerf has been going through if this stuff had happened for the first time. Nerf has literally harassed Ellesmere numerous times on stream, and he didn't respond to it. My guy has an iron mental, and Nerf using it like a punching bag is not justifiable.

What Dorki says around 49:30 is so SO true. Normally I dislike his takes but the state of M+ requiring so many kicks and stuns and has so many 1 shots is god-awful especially for a healer. M+ was better when it was just a race to get it done in the timer.

Nerfs points are mainly his, his and his wrongs makes my wrong a right. Also the team chemestry might be in the bin when someone berates the others on a daily basis. Just go back to any wods and listen... Ellesmere gets soo much crap thrown his way every stream. Its a one way street most of the time. Someone needs to act as an adult

Nerf has a perfect punchable voice. He sounds so cocky.

So Growl think it's okay for Nerf to respond by muting himself, but the way James responded back is wrong ? And Nerf might be his "boy" but good friends keep each other acountable and dont enable this behaviour. Also saying "the people" not being able to relate to this is dead wrong. Yes, the level that these streamers/pro-players play in is a level I will probably never reach. But the same focus, pressure, intensity that they experience in a +30, a player can also have the same in a +15.

Bro I can't take the nasally voice at all it just made me laugh the whole time 😂😂😂

Growl has a weird complex... so focused on what chat is saying. Has he had a bad experience?

Max during next RWF: “I’m muting myself for the rest of the boss” 😂

28:18 "at the end of the day they wake up" truest gamer hour statement

no clue who growl is but his comments on the matter are awful lol

Growl is so incredibly biased in this take. Saying that Elles and JPC barked at Nerf is crazy. Changing his story several times to fit his narrative when Max pushes back. I get that you think Nerf is not completely at fault, and I agree, but the take is still so far off. I honestly questioned his sanity at times listening to him. Maybe its a streamer thing since they do not have to deal with the general public out in the world as much? (Outside of chat, which is a different beast.) It honestly feels like Growl is great at the M+ side of WoW and not so much the social side of it. Never change though, I need the M+ tips.

Some context that really needs to be mentioned is that this key was immediately following a 31 wcm that was bricked due to an endless debuff bug on triad. So they are already tilted from the very beginning

47:20 is why I knew I would love this video. Did not disappoint.

as a 41 year old, the whole 30 being old discourse ....lemme get my walker....

James is like what 27/28? So highly doubt the "you're 30" comment was toxic. It was more about that he should act like an adult, no?

10:21 LOL too real. I was thinking "this is the most manchild interaction I've seen in at least a couple weeks and they are STILL on pace to time a +30 if they'd just get over it". Insane

Best Quote, "All you high end mythic +ers need therapy," - max 2024 @maximum

Ellesmere gets shit on more than any of them in that group. I don't know how tf he tolerates it.

"Chat is so stupid for loving dramas." *Streamer proceeds to make video about drama"

so basically a bunch of adults act like children and stop communicating with each other and instead have a collective tantrum lmao this did not need to be an hour long video

Growl would like chat to be chill and to be literally his therapist, he needs one

Justin was accurate, dude acted like a child instead of a 30 year old dad. And then deflects blame like a child. Feel bad for his kids that’s some type of role model for him.

maybe i'm toxic or have thicker skin than most WoW gamers, but I don't think it would be over the line if someone brought up my age if they were trying to say that I was acting like a man-child.

The 30 years old comment is saying "Act your age and quit acting like a child." Why did every one think this was so brutal? He's not calling him an old geezer he's just saying "Act your age"

Growl defending nerf is wild to me, bro was acting like a child, don't shot call for months and then suddenly stop and get mad when someone fucks up.

i've watched ellesmere play with nerf for some years now and it's banter 99.9% of the time. Tho, that "can i get one heal" is something he just says for the lols, that overlap tho, that's definitely something else.

I listened back and he did say that he stunned but it was right when the monk came up and casted leg kick, So he could of clarified that he was stunning first way before then lol. Edit: also now knowing he shotcalls for them it was def his fault there for not calling out he was getting first stun lmao.

HOLY Dorki aware moment right at the start

After watching this, I'm convinced Nerf started Team SoloMid under another alias

@growl because Nerf always makes the calls so just because it's a "homework" key why all of a sudden not make the calls? That is why they blamed Nerf's fault for not calling like he normally does.

growl was NOT cooking, get him out of the kitchen

God, the bit at the end about RBG flame, is SO true. Good lord, the flame in pvp has always been wild west.

If its a "chill" key like Growls trying to defend then why open your mouth and say anything about the overlap? If what Growl is saying is true then it should be so "chill" that nothing needs to be said from Nerf either. You can talk your shit in the "chill" key but the guys cant say nothing back? He keeps saying they barked at nerf yet nerf literally "barked" first lmfao...What a shit defense about the whole thing.

Can't believe JPC had the patience to go back to that team tbh.

Is that shot caller weak aura available anywhere? It looks really usefull

The leg sweep heard round the world 🫡

The glazing from growl is insane. Yeah, it's ok for Nerf to be upset or annoyed. No, it's not remotely ok for him to turn off comms in the middle of a key and just fuck over his team. That's only marginally better than literally hearthing. The problem wasn't that stuns were overlapped, or that people snapped at each other over it (esp when he snapped first). The problem is that he's trying to play something at a serious competitive level and is acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

that's the content i need ti deplete my 10s to.

As a 44 Year old Tank who plays wow since day 1 of release my guild groups get sometimes the silent-mode treatment. A lot of effort to adjust Pulls and call outs with diffrent compositions is not apprecieated. Its like taking granted by many for a tank to do the call outs and stuff. On the other side : I also play aswell with 70 Year old People ... they appreciate the effort with plan and call outs i put into for getting a 20 key intime with them. Those runs are the most vaulable in my view, since they are happy to get/have the feeling to get a high key done intime without feeling to be carried, but to be part of the success.

Still don't know the full picture of the drama, not sure why a m+ group internal issue can turn into a such big thing. However, neither Growl nor Nerf gave any explanation on Nerf not opening mic after the run after he said "I will mute for the rest of the run". All those shit talk can be put as the routine for the group which is not included in the context. But if there's something that I will be pissed off from this drama, that will be the the refusal of communication after the run, even though he specifically said the mute duration is just for this run. All the explanation of how current M+ is helpful for the context, but keep muting after the run makes Nerf 1. refusing to communicate. and 2. a person who cannot keep his words.

that "ur 30 years old" comment was goated

I guess this is why Echo keeps beating us in m+. They just mute mics scream oddly specific Baltic slurs at each other that are from beefs from 1k years ago then move on.

Growl is reaching hard lol

Muting yourself for an entire key after anything is manchild behaviour. We’ve all been there, but the majority of us apologize for it afterwards. We don’t just say best of luck in the future.

It doesn’t make sense to have a healer do the first cc. If you’re relying on the tank to be the shot caller, then it’s your L if you don’t wait for the call to CC. Also I’m just gonna say it for the haters, that’s still no reason to behave like a child and mute your mic and almost throw the key on lady waycrest. 😅😅😅 it’s only pixels

lmao Growl's entire whining session about always having to apologise being a tank is completely undermined by the fact that Ellesmere owned up to the mistake immediately after the key

In my experience tanks are raidleaders because both roles pretty much require 100% attendance. You can maybe substitute 1 tank but in the end your raidleader always has to be there and so does your tank. So naturally raidleaders sooner or later start tanking.

growl is kinda cooked here. nerf was very toxic there, you can tilt and that happens but your reaction is what matters. deafening is not a mature response

The initial comment by Growl about "These bugged mobs are the source of his frustration." It doesn't matter. In any capacity, it does not matter. If you are the shotcaller, you don't get to take out frustrations in game design on other people in your group. If you are not able to redirect that frustration to somewhere besides your group, you should not be shotcalling. Full stop. Maybe he generally doesn't and he was just having a bad day. Again, doesn't matter. If he's in that mindset at the time, he should be able to recognize it and adjust shotcallers. People in positions where they're in charge of other people don't get the luxury of not being self reflective. That's how you get bad leaders.