RINGS OF POWER Showrunners Continue To LIE About Tolkien's Work

Рет қаралды 26,894

Жыл бұрын

Despite the revelation that Amazon’s Rings of Power series is not a direct adaptation of Tolkien’s second age stories, the showrunners Payne and McKay continue to vehemently push back against any who attempt to point this out. In this video I examine the showrunners’ remarks given at the Television Critic Association’s semi-annual press tour panel as covered by an article from the The Hollywood Reporter and consider the reasons why Amazon refuses to be up front and honest about the many liberties and deviations they are making from Tolkien’s works.
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Пікірлер: 646

@divineglitch9550 Жыл бұрын

Really sad what they are doing to Tolkien but sadder still is the hubris and ego to think they are on his level at all.

@VishnuZutaten Жыл бұрын

They had the response readied. And Im leaning into thinking the question was a setup also so they could spew that garbage.

@chadbennett7873 Жыл бұрын

They couldn't reach his level with 12 Atlas rockets! Film-makers ALWAYS think they can write a better story than the original. That's why LOTR won "Book of the Century" and "Book of the Millennium", and they won't be considered for anything other than a Razzie. Anybody who reads Tolkien extensively, and wants to change things, is either a Narcissist or an ignorant fool. Go to Mordor, you bastards!

@jessehamm3573 Жыл бұрын

That's what happens when talentless hacks are surrounded by an echo chamber of "yes men" who will do nothing but relentlessly bombard them with unconditional praise, constantly telling them what "geniuses" they supposedly are. I suppose if Ed Wood had been confined to his own little safe space with people constantly declaring him to be a "far better director than Alfred Hitchcock", that might go to his head, too.

@xskrish Жыл бұрын

the background music is so soothing yet the entire video is pure annihilation of the showrunners lmfao

@di3486 Жыл бұрын

Just genius 😂

@christianefiorito3204 Жыл бұрын

They deserve it

@priscillamontoya Жыл бұрын

Her voice is soothing too! Love.

@fclefjefff4041 Жыл бұрын

@@priscillamontoya it's hilarious that someone who's obviously hired to read these scripts is responsible for so many nerd boners 😄

@leandrochavez6480 Жыл бұрын

you can use her voice and background music to recall all your life decisions and would look like good ones.

@blankadams3120 Жыл бұрын

"If we didn't think this was canon, we'd be shit scared to be up on stage"... so, they're shit scared that the fandom is destroying them every time they try to advertise the show?

@neatwheat Жыл бұрын

Seems like theyare full of sh**

@LA-qv1ir Жыл бұрын

wait, they didn't say they were canon. They said some sort of BULLSHAT about "we aren't 'vaguely connected', our roots are deep."

@kahekilimaui450 Жыл бұрын

@@LA-qv1ir Deep in a bucket of putrid liquid feces. That is what they dug into.

@ninjabreadman8166 Жыл бұрын

Nerd Cookies sets a calming atmosphere with a relaxing voice and relaxing music, but absolutely slaughters the showrunners using the truth and their own words. This show feels like a cashgrab using Tolkien's desecrated corpse as a piñata, and no one is allowed to publicly say otherwise because you'll be dismissed as a bad person morally.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

She's probably the most knowledgeable of the lore channels. I study Tolkien, I have a library of science fiction and fantasy books. She catches me with something new all the time and I've been reading this stuff for 30 years.

@Khrist75 Жыл бұрын

An iron hand in a velvet glove...

@marctemura2017 Жыл бұрын

No she is working herself up into a tizzy, Bread. She really hasn't seen the show. You need be very careful before passing judgement.

@marshascottbeck1145 Жыл бұрын

@@marctemura2017 A derp a derp... "She hasn't seen the show"... A derp a derp. Maybe you missed the part where she addresses that there's no need to see it because by not staying true to any source material it's already trashed. You people really are a hive mind, like the Borg. And yeah, you guys trashed star trek and star wars too with your woke crap.

Жыл бұрын

@@marctemura2017 She has already answered to this argument in the video, but clearly, you didn't even take the time to see it, or don't have the capacity to understand it.

@erhanpasa9382 Жыл бұрын

It's all about ''their feelings''. It's all about how ''they feel''. That doesn't necessarily translate into being right, faithful or honest. In that paragraph consisting of only 5 rows, they use the word ''feel'' 6 times. This alone is enough for me to see through their deceptions.

@Puma5 Жыл бұрын

Spot on!

@MaxxMcGeePrivate Жыл бұрын

Yeah, so them saying "go back to the book" doesn't mean reading, it means feeling about it.

@rockyblacksmith Жыл бұрын

I'd like to introduce a neologism based on this: Instead of being faithful to a source material, we can call their approach being "feelful" to the source. Meaning when they "feel" like they stuck to their source material, but everyone around them knows it's BS.

@papapalpatine5308 Жыл бұрын

Dang, after hearing and seeing cookies' videos about this show and the red flags it has, I just wanna give her a big hug. As a fellow Tolkien fan, it's sad to see the works we love being converted into something else.

@MrBillclintin Жыл бұрын

But there is one redeeming light. Disney has the right to what is Star Wars cannon, this something the fans can't change. Everything based on tolkiens work is adaptationen, including the garbage from Amazon. Tolkinian lore will always be the writings of John and Christopher Tolkien.

@nagamata Жыл бұрын

It really is. It’s also disappointing when more casual fans don’t understand why more ardent fans are so upset.

@MrBillclintin Жыл бұрын

@Jéster yes, but it gives me the freedom to consider it a lousy comedy. I can always return to the books, knowing Bezoz won't be able to soil them. I am not planning watching amazon prime, since the stain the place on Tolkien, is also something they place on themselves.

@CoinSlotKitty Жыл бұрын

I wonder if they will include Tom Bombadil in some nonsense role like founding Rohan with some half dwarf /half orc woman that turns into a horse after he sings a song. That seems like something they might do based on what I've seen.

@wetincornwall6882 Жыл бұрын

The works we love are not being converted. All still there, in print, written by Tolkien. This isn't Tolkiens work, it's not canon, it's not Middle-Earth.

@ZatoichiBattousai Жыл бұрын

Funny how the writers talk about their FEELINGS, when we are talking of literary FACTS.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

Exactly! They feel they have not trampled all over Tolkien's literature, lore, and canon, but so did their mentor, J.J. Abrams, when he destroyed Star Trek and Star Wars. I think they are deluding themselves because they know deep down what they have done is an abomination of Tolkien's Middle Earth.

@fredwmanzo8580 Жыл бұрын

If they had simply written their own high fantasy script all their problems would have gone away. If Tolkien wasn’t to their liking, the solution is simple, don’t use him. But if they insist on using Tolkien to draw an audience they have an obligation to use his ideas and writings with as few changes as possible.

@leandrochavez6480 Жыл бұрын

they could perfectly create new stories without altering Tolkien´s lore and complement it (like top dollar fanfiction who can be considered canon in a few years).

@Ugliduckie Жыл бұрын

It's fascinating to hear such a level and rational voice reveal just how despicable those two showrunners are. I wouldn't be able to keep my voice so steady as I commented about how my most beloved tale and author is being bastardized by vastly inferior men. Kudos to you, Nerdcookies. Well done

@sneed457 Жыл бұрын

It's uncommon for lore/info channels to be critically honest about media like this, a lot of them will just make "5 things you didn't know about Rings of Power" for the algorithm. Respect for speaking your mind

@deeps1957 Жыл бұрын

It’s pretty simple, lying is the only way to avoid telling the truth 🤷🏻

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

Amateur. The best lie is the truth, minus one. EDIT: Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm just joshing with ya.

@vivalaminion2936 Жыл бұрын

Worked for trump...until it didn't.

@deeps1957 Жыл бұрын

@@vivalaminion2936 yes… then we got Biden. Not gonna lie, I kinda prefer a lying dick over an incompetent retard 🥲

@vivalaminion2936 Жыл бұрын

@@deeps1957 I don't like Biden, but that is the narrative that all those who are not "right" are "left". The orange was trying to overthrow an election and is now paying consequences for stealing top secret documents. Also, his "good people" are trying to harm FBI agents. He will never be in office again.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

@@vivalaminion2936 Don't start the politics shit.

@almone5895 Жыл бұрын

Anytime someone starts a defense with "I feel" or "We feel" they are stating opinion and not fact. I would have a smidge of respect for them if they just came out straight and said this isn't for the fans, it is for us to help virtue signal, and appease 2% of the population of whom maybe .005% have read Tolkien.

@ecurb10 Жыл бұрын

Yes i too don't trust that "I feel" thing one bit. It means nothing.

@adrianmcmahon5731 Жыл бұрын

I was apprehensive right from the original announcement Amazon were doing a LOTR's series and nothing I've learnt or heard anyone associated with making this has done anything but deepen my doubts. After Wheel of Time I'm fully expecting this to be an abomination.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

Bail me once, shame on me; bait me twice, shame on you ... Amazon.

@mr.s2005 Жыл бұрын

Same, would have given them a benefit of a doubt, since Terminal List was great and I hear Reacher also follows the book well enough....but their fake superfans, bribing youtubers to sing their praises, and already are attacking the fans, is the typical response that show creators have when they made a crappy series and want to play victim when they fail.

@adrianmcmahon5731 Жыл бұрын

Attacking fans never ends well. Surely everyone should have learnt that from Disney repeatedly doing it, but no, they keep calling fans bigots and racists

@georgepatton6195 Жыл бұрын

@@mr.s2005 When they have to "fix" the dislike ratio, you already know that something is wrong. I'm surprised all the negative comments aren't getting "misinformation" messages attached

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

@@mr.s2005 When I first heard Amazon was taking on a Tolkien story, I was psyched. Then I watched what they did to Wheel of Time, and have seen what they are doing with Rings of Power, and I just have to say, "No, thank you." Having the producer, showrunners, and cast slam Tolkien fans and call fans racist, misogynist, and right wingers was the nail in the coffin. I am quite progressive, and I can't stand this virtue signaling, race swapping, and hyper-feminism injected into established literature and lore. Unlike Bad Robot ruining Star Trek and Star Wars, any Lord of the Rings presentation also has a cultural element similar to Roots, Dances With Wolves, and Encanto. To make these changes is nothing less than cultural appropriation. With all of this rhetoric about fitting The Lord of the Rings into today, they forgot that cultural appropriation is no longer acceptable in television and film.

@Zeoran Жыл бұрын

They've had a main actress going around CONSTANTLY stating that she's the "first black female dwarf" when that's not even remotely true. You expected different?

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

She is the first black female dwarf because there are no black female dwarves in canon. What she actually said was that she was, "the first female dwarf." She has changed that statement a few times because Tolkien fans immediately posted screenshots of female dwarves from The Hobbit. The Hobbit female dwarves are much closer to cannon (white skin with beards), but they are dressed too feminine for dwarves. Tolkien hinted in his letters and interviews that Dwarves were similar to Hasidic Jews in that they would never shave their beards completely, and they would be shamed if it had been done to them by force. This is for both male and female dwarves - which are both born with beards. It is pretty sad when the dwarves in the Diggy Diggy Hole animation are more accurate than The Rings of Power dwarves who may end up more like the Star Trek Discovery Klingons for breaking canon than anything in Tolkien's writings.

@Zeoran Жыл бұрын

@@Too-Odd And you're speaking about someone WHO HAS NO BEARD.

@eugene8498 Жыл бұрын

@@Too-Odd What Tolkien actually said was that they look like male in appearance, AND in garb when they must go on a JOURNEY, so I think the dressing is excusable.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

@@eugene8498 That could be because dwarven women are so scarce, but if they are outside of the caves, aren't they on at least a small journey? What would they wear around humans, elves, and hobbits?

@eugene8498 Жыл бұрын

@@Too-Odd But in the movie the woman is selling something in Dale, probably her daily routine. I wouldn't call it a journey.

@johnnymcgonigle6530 Жыл бұрын

As soon as a show or movie treats me, the audience, like I'm stupid, I stop watching. I already feel like the showrunners & cast in their interviews are doing this.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

But you will miss the FIRST FEMALE DWARF ever! 😲

@johnnymcgonigle6530 Жыл бұрын

@@Too-Odd holy shit! The first female dwarf ever? I might just watch it for that.

@randalhall3926 Жыл бұрын

They keep using phrases like “we feel this is what Tolkien meant” or “Tolkien never said this specific thing didn’t happen in the books” as a poor justification for they’re dumb storytelling. Basically they’re just using that as a cop out. Also if they agree his work is “timeless” but feel like they need to make changes to appeal to a wider audience then they clearly don’t love Tolkien as much as they pretend to.

@danieldeclue1466 Жыл бұрын

I think their claims of being deeply connected to tolkien's works are absolutely bogus. They literally have so much they could do with this series. They could take the story over to the haradrim if they wanted to focus on diversity. They could do amazing stories about how the Nazgul came to be. They could do stories of how the black numenorians started to oppress the haradrim. And they could even do whatever they wanted with the blue Wizards. There is so much that they could have done within the structure of tolkien's writings rather than trying to change up what has already been written

@Balandrus Жыл бұрын

Except they can't tell any real story from this period. They don't have the rights to the material. This "story" is a deliberate subversion of Tolkien's work. I would expect nothing less from people connected to J.J. Abrams.

@danieldeclue1466 Жыл бұрын

@@Balandrus amen to that. And honestly after what I have seen so far, I am so fucking glad that they don't have any of the rights for the story they are trying to tell. They've made it abundantly clear that even if they did have the rights they wouldn't do it justice

@anthonykent00 Жыл бұрын

Blue Wizards! Exactly! There's basically nothing written. They could any story they wanted with those characters.

@Balandrus Жыл бұрын

@@anthonykent00 So, you want them to "write the story Tolkien never did?" How about people just faithfully adapt the material he left us? Stop trying to invent new stories, that undoubtedly would lack the care and detail. These people don't care about the source material. It's only a means to an end in pushing "the message."

@Princess_Feona Жыл бұрын

I don’t think their main motivation is to push a message. It’s just that has to be a part of whatever they do. Their motivation is to keep working. And within the rules of the Hollywood system that means pushing that message right now but it’s still not their main motivation. From what we’ve learned they didn’t start out like this. This was the intervention of Jennifer Salke and that other woman coming in and changing everything that they had planned out. No those women definitely are pushing a message. These guys are just too chumps in way the heck over their heads.

@di3486 Жыл бұрын

Nerd cookies is the most respectable voice in this movement! You’re fantastic. I am not watching that trainwreck but I will for sure watch your takes!

@vivalaminion2936 Жыл бұрын

Movement? It's a fucking show. This isn't someone fighting for civil rights, it's a bunch of execs thinking they can make money off anything. Just don't watch it.

@ignacius8466 Жыл бұрын

Not giving Amazon a single click for this blasphemy.

@marctemura2017 Жыл бұрын

What I hope the do is show a map. Why is that every fantasy show everyone has GPS in there head. I traveled through actual forest and deserts and it is not easy. I never go off trail unless really know the area.

@roger5059 Жыл бұрын

@@ignacius8466 giving amazon a click? We are pirates, we don't even know what that means!

@Balandrus Жыл бұрын

@@roger5059 Just seeing the egos involved, I'm sure they'd take piracy as a positive. "Look, even people who aren't able sign up for Prime can't wait to watch Rings of Power!"

@singingraven652 Жыл бұрын

It's so funny to read their interviews... They Feel, that show has deep roots in Tolkien's work, they Feel that elves have short hair, they Feel like are making canonical story. But you can't Feel facts! You can feel emotions, but not letters on paper! As someone said, facts don't care about your feelings. And with literal evidence on what's true and what's not being available for them (lotr appendixes) I just cannot understand how can they feel that what they've written is in any way connected to the original story apart from character names

@thesephiam Жыл бұрын

They want to make people believe they are getting it right so people will actually watch it.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

They are talking to the masses who don't know better. Tolkien fans know better, but they wrote us off before they wrote the first page of the screenplay.

@deespaeth8180 Жыл бұрын

Not only that, they either fired Professor Shipley, or he left when he told them what they were trying to do was not lore accurate.

@redrum3405 Жыл бұрын

Yup. And the con has to be maintained a bit longer

@thethreeedgedsword7253 Жыл бұрын

The “hill I’m willing to die in” is: the dwarf women should have beards. “It’s the dwarves who go swimming with little hair women!”-gimli

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

Your post gave me an idea. In the movie adaptation of the hobbit, the love interest between Tauriel and Kili. What if Kili lived and they had children? Oh I know, Hungarians. Of course, it never happened in the book, but it got me thinking.

@thethreeedgedsword7253 Жыл бұрын

@@sid2112 I’m dead lol. “Oh I know, Hungarians” hahahaha fucking brilliant

@richardrose2606 Жыл бұрын

@@sid2112 I guess I don't get why it would be Hungarians. Seems to me it would be Czechoslovakians.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

@@richardrose2606 Tall and bearded. Honestly the inspiration came from a scene in a show called Scrubs when some guy grew a beard in a day and called himself Hungarian.

@richardrose2606 Жыл бұрын

@@sid2112 Thanks

@marknovak6498 Жыл бұрын

I remember fondly the speculation of what stories could be told for the second age. instead, it seems Amazon bought the right to use the Tolkien universe without getting sued.

@calolson9572 Жыл бұрын

I think my reaction is going to be something like "avoid this like the plague." I think your analysis is spot on - thanks for the great content!

@Hero_Of_Old Жыл бұрын

Can you really avoid the plague though?

@georgepatton6195 Жыл бұрын

@@Hero_Of_Oldburn all the bodies

@frodofraggins Жыл бұрын

It's clear they have gotten some rights from Estate such as the map of Numenor. The conjecture is that while they don't have rights to the full silmarillion and such, they have paid for rights as needed to tell the story. Spending $500 million just to make a TV show but not have full license to canon material is absurd. With that said, I don't consider this adaptation canon at all and have very little hope.

@Jim-Tuner Жыл бұрын

Simon Tolkien who currently runs the estate has made it clear that nothing is off limits to them anymore if they want it.

@Balandrus Жыл бұрын

$500 million for the book rights. $500 million for the filming rights in New Zealand. $580 million production budget for season 1. Being the most expensive entertainment failure in history? Priceless.

@OcarinaSapphr- Жыл бұрын

@@Jim-Tuner Is he _that_ determined to destroy the legacy of his grandfather & father....?

@Jim-Tuner Жыл бұрын

@@OcarinaSapphr- Simon Tolkein's dreams are to move from wealthy to super-wealthy.....and to be invited to the right parties in southern california. To him, the legacy of his grandfather is just fuel for his ambitions.

@deespaeth8180 Жыл бұрын

@@Jim-Tuner disgraceful!

@jamescattaneo1155 Жыл бұрын

Ya, when it was first announced and heard the budget they where getting I was excited. As time went on and I heard what they where doing, I think I will not give this the time of day.

@saiyansomething73 Жыл бұрын

This feels suspiciously like Star Trek and the Prime Universe vs. the Kelvin Universe. Because the rights to Tolkien's works are divided among various parties, Amazon and the showrunners have to tiptoe around vaguely defined legal parameters. But instead of restricting their story telling, the creators have used the paucity of lore at their command to inject new characters, plotlines, and even concepts alien to Middle Earth. 25% different was the edict for Abrams Trek and it seems something similar is occurring in Rings of Power. And again a once vaunted franchise is attacking it's fans and calling them 'ists of every description. This tactic has never worked before and will not work this time. Every IP that has resorted to these measures has failed to one degree or another. This time could shape up to be the worst crash yet.

@GeneSysFNLT Жыл бұрын

I'm fully convinced that Nerd Cookies is secretly an elf sent by the Valar, specifically to preserve truth.

@Curious_Traveler Жыл бұрын

The marketing strategy is obviously focused on those who have not read the books, or don't really care about authenticity in storytelling. Considering how many, re-adaptations, reboots, and re-imaginings there are now it seems to be an actual systemic problem. What these two dopes are probably afraid of is that it will get the same reception as all the other fantasy franchises that have flopped, so they have to be all in on the idea that their show is faithful to the work of Tolkien. My main concern comes from the only certain thing I know about the show, and that is the fact these two knuckleheads haven't really done anything prior to this show. Recently there have been a slew of films and shows produced with such freshman writers, and it shows through juvenile dialogue, shallow characterizations, and the forced insertion of modern politics.

@annejeppesen160 Жыл бұрын

To be fair, PJ hadn't done much before LoTR. But him and his team unfortunately is an exception.

@georgepatton6195 Жыл бұрын

They are hoping for enough time have past so the older generation has died off or too old to care and the newer generation aren't going to know anything about the books, Tolkien's legacy or even have watched any of the movies. The newer generation is also more forgiving. For me this series is going to be like when Jethro Tull won best hard rock band in 89 at the Grammies. Total Bullshit!

@Curious_Traveler Жыл бұрын

@@annejeppesen160 somewhat true, he was the writer and director for a few films prior, and cofounded Wētā FX, originally called Weta Digital.

@annejeppesen160 Жыл бұрын

@@Curious_Traveler but all of it quite obscure

@Curious_Traveler Жыл бұрын

@@annejeppesen160 I enjoyed the movie The Frightners, unfortunately it went up against Independence Day with an undeserved R rating. But the point is that he had done some major projects, and started his own effects company like George Lucas so he wasn’t inexperienced.

@Tara-Maya Жыл бұрын

I've been a Tolkien fan for decades, and it's really dissapointing and frustrating to see what they've done with this. I perked up yesterday when I found out that the rights to LOR and HOB have been bought by Embracer Group. Also, "The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim" is animated movie coming out in 2024, and there will plenty of movies and TV to come focusing on individual characters. Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson are involved in this new venture. Everything about this Amazon production now makes sense.

@pelisinho Жыл бұрын

Hmm care to elaborate? I'm curious eheh I just cannot understand why amazon is doing what they are doing.

@RedTSquared Жыл бұрын

If, and this is a big IF, they had been honest that they were basically making a 'Fan Fiction' story inspired by Tolkien, I would have given them a chance. Now, after all this time and seeing the trailers/interviews and articles, I think I'm going to pass on this series. I'm sure all the good scenes will be on KZfaq in a week, I'll check them there for scene art, costumes and effects.

@humphrey4976 Жыл бұрын

I love how they are spending so much time telling the consumers they are wrong

@redrum3405 Жыл бұрын

New Hollywood 101

@MetalKingII Жыл бұрын

On the one hand I'd probably give showrunners and writers more slack if they'd be more honest about how far they deviate from source material (I still wouldn't watch it though as those deviations often ruin emersion and emersion is everything for me when it comes to stories) but on the other hand I am also so fed up with all these changes to established lores just to sell some political messages or to piss off fans as that's what it feels like quite often. I have given up any hope to see a good, modern adaptation of a beloved world in the current state of the entertainment industry. I just watch the originals and pretend there's nothing else out there that could ruin something dear to me.

@Interrobang212 Жыл бұрын

At least blade runner was decent, and we have Dune to look forward to!

@Jim-Tuner Жыл бұрын

I'd give them more slack if they had any previous body of writing work. The only credit they have is uncredited additional writing on "Star Trek: Beyond". I don't know how you put two guys who have never written anything in charge of a show like this.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

@@Interrobang212 Yeah there is that. Denis didn't screw us over and I was really worried.

@patrickleitzen9752 Жыл бұрын

10/10 take, as always. Also, didn't think I'd ever hear such a relaxing recital of the phrase "piss and vinegar" but here we are

@peteoconnor6388 Жыл бұрын

Wasn't holding much hope before but now I'm actively hoping for it to fail.

@whylie74 Жыл бұрын

At this point I'm sure even if they'd managed to get the rights to the silmarilion and all of tolkiens' notes and letters accossiated with it, we'd still be getting the show as it is now, at this point they're using "Tolkien" as a brand name for marketing, to borrow a term from the auto world, it's "badge engineering".

@Jim-Tuner Жыл бұрын

I'm sure if they wanted the rights to other material, that the current Tolkien Estate would sell them anything they wanted.

@Kaloo1968 Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for making this video! I never even knew that the show creators were doing this at all. I learned recently that The Embracer Group has the right to Tolkien's literary works, not Amazon... so I'm deeply concerned over this troubling news. To me it seems that 'Rings of Power' will be a mess just like the 'Wheel of Time' series unfortunately.

@TheSleepyowlet Жыл бұрын

I mean. What do you expect from showrunners if one of them belongs to a cult that routinely claims to speak for dead people and even baptizes them posthumously? I'm also supremely put off by their constant use of "we feel". Guys, I'd prefer you to _think._

@JohnnyZenith Жыл бұрын

I even hate the look of everything. The awful numenorians look. Gondorians in LOTR look fantastic. The awful overuse of gold. Short hair elves, and much more.

@TheSleepyowlet Жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyZenith The *fucking laurel wreaths* I just _can't_ with that nonsense. And that one lady at the banquet shot with her back to the audience who is obviously wearing a polyester curtain with a modern wave pattern 🤮

@suburbanbanshee Жыл бұрын

Whether or not the LDS is correct, there has been a lot of good/popular fantasy/sf writing among its membership. (Mostly because BYU has a very practical writing course.) And of course the original Battlestar Galactica was pretty much a Book of Mormon adaptation, in certain ways. People can have all manner of belief systems and still do a good job. These showrunners just stink, and the fault is all of themselves.

@TheSleepyowlet Жыл бұрын

@@suburbanbanshee There's a difference between making your own thing and making a faithful adaptation. I have an ex-Mo friend and when I told him that one of the showrunners still adheres to that faith, he was like, "Oh, that explains a lot." Like the short-haired elves, the overuse of gold, the visual Ancient Rome throwbacks ( *those fucking laurel wreaths, I swear* ), and them playing fast and loose with plot and characters. Because Mormons really fucking _hate_ pagan imagery, things that break with their idea of what gender presentation ought to be (long hair on men is a huge sticking point), and their disdain for anything inherently magical might explain why their elves look like humans with rubber ears and lack that ethereal, inhuman quality that PJ managed to give them. Yeah, believe whatever the fuck you want, but you don't get to bring your religious bias to an adaptation of a work from an author who is A: from a different culture and B: a different religion.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

You tried hard, Ms. Cookies. You gave them every shot. Much respect.

@jcheck1107 Жыл бұрын

Lol they dug up Tolkiens body, beat it like a piñata then re buried it

@kahekilimaui450 Жыл бұрын

This, was an absolutely Thorough and comprehensive assessment Breakdown and analysis hitting on all points in one of the most level presentations I have seen on this subject. As a 45 year Tolkien fan, I am pleased to see younger people taking up the banner on The Professor's behalf and doing it with such eloquence. Thank you!

@AndyLennon Жыл бұрын

Canonicity has become an issue with a dollar value attached. They lie because "LoTR AU Fanfiction" will miss out on millions which could be made by an "inspired by" product.

@cubablue602 Жыл бұрын

Once I heard of the absurd time compression I knew this wasn't going to work. Nobody who was serious about Tolkien would ever even contemplate such a move. Everything on top of that has just confirmed these showrunners are not up for even the simple tasks and the promotional campaign and marketing has to be one of the worst I've ever seen in entertainment. What's sad is that we will have multiple seasons of this garbage, I can't see Amazon backing out.

@JohnnyZenith Жыл бұрын

As soon as I heard it won't look like the original LOTR and Jackson's movies, elves didn't all have long hair, they didn't have the rights to the Silmarillion, then the rest....

@kdog3908 Жыл бұрын

I think.......I'm just going to duck out of this one completely. I get zero LotR 'feel' from anything i've seen so far. The whole thing was more 'real' to me as notes and appendices because that gave the idea of half remembered history. It made me think of the line ," History becomes legend and legend fades into myth." IIRC Tolkien wrote much of the background stuff (notes, appendices, family trees etc) to give the stuff he actually fleshed out in his novels, a feeling of authenticity by providing a history, whether mythic or real, for everything. I suppose my point is; none of that stuff was meant to be extensively detailed because that was not its purpose. It's purpose was to add gravitas to the works he did actually publish as stories in "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of The Rings"

@derptothemaxclearly Жыл бұрын

I wonder if they will show an elven barbershop where all the black elves hang out and get those super clean looking fades. I wish I could find a barber near me that could cut that well. Jelly.

@GentlemenMonkey Жыл бұрын

Great video as always. The word that keeps coming to my mind with the show-runner's is hubris. I'll watch it when it comes out and see what's there. I've held out hope that it might be enjoyable even if there's annoying changes to cannon. However, as the severity and number of deviations from the source material come to light, I'm increasingly less hopeful. We can't really judge it until it's released but my expectations for it have dropped precipitously. I hope there's some redeeming qualities to the show but...hubris. I suspect it will be remember for its hubris.

@axebeard6085 Жыл бұрын

I suspect the showrunners are neither willfully deceitful nor willfully ignorant . I think they truly believe what they're saying. To me, this just seems to be yet another example of people standing on top of Dunning-Kruger's "Peak Stupid". They know just enough to truly believe they are right, but they don't know enough to realize how horribly, horribly mistaken they are.

@rexmundi3108 Жыл бұрын

This is exactly my issue. Why did they go ahead without the rights to...anything?

@TheDuc069 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for another great thoughtful commentary. My question is why doesn’t the Tolkien Estate speak out about these problems, the professor was very guarded about people aka films not knowing how to make films within the boundaries he set up?

@sunsin1592 Жыл бұрын

Because the people who actually cared are all dead and the survivors don't want to to have to work for the rest of their lives. They take the boatloads of cash and move on.

@matiasluukkanen7718 Жыл бұрын

I am sure it is in the contract not to undermine Amazon's project. What I would like to know about is what rights Amazon actually has. With Embracer group just recently buying Lotr and Hobbit rights, do these both corporations now both own the rights to make their own adaptations of Tolkien's works?

@JoachimHannemann Жыл бұрын

@@matiasluukkanen7718 Amazon has only the right to the Appendices of The Return of the King - that's all.

@kevinrussell1144 Жыл бұрын

@@JoachimHannemann BUT.....you can do a LOT of damage just "using" that material. You can read it and study it and use it to guide your adaptation, or you can piss on it. Which path do you think the show runners are following? And yes, NC has a nice voice, pleasant manners, and knows her stuff. However, she shows these vandals too much respect. If someone is pissing on your leg, you can smile, ask them to stop, walk away, or punch them. We also have a choice in our future response to Amazon. Me, I cancelled my Prime account and don't order anything from them. They are NOT for me.

@Jim-Tuner Жыл бұрын

Tolkien's children have all passed away and the grandchildren running the estate are just soulless greedy monsters.

@Fiorwestcoast Жыл бұрын

The whole thing is a disaster. The worst part? Kids will watch it and think it's legit Tolkien. And in ten years they will think it's Canon. And that suuuuuuucks.

@trentberry6968 Жыл бұрын

They're lying for money.

@bk_panther_ Жыл бұрын

I don't think I have EVER wanted to know of a character that is full of "piss and vinegar". Ever... They probably don't care or interested in the hard core fans. They are marketing towards gaining new fans and moving forwards because of their limited source material they have access to. Sort of like Star Trek Discovery. They can't, won't or don't want to deal with the existing fans and looking towards attracting new fans.

@wd2989 Жыл бұрын

I do not know who to hold accountable to the deceptive messages and actions but the showrunners are certainly a start when I hear the public comments they’ve said at SDCC. I assume the executive producer and marketing department are culprits too.

@Too-Odd Жыл бұрын

There was a lot of scripted doublespeak in cast interviews. It was godawful.

@sid2112 Жыл бұрын

@@Too-Odd Hey I remember you! Hungarians are gorgeous.

@Darkwintre Жыл бұрын

It doesn't. I wonder how badly this will fail and did they pass the blame to their writers instead of shouldering the blame for the mess they're responsible for?

@JaceInnes Жыл бұрын

Amazon butchered WoT, im not surprised they'd mess this up

@nothingness863 Жыл бұрын

there will be a heated battle for failure of the year among extremely expensive tv shows

@sabrecatsmiladon7380 Жыл бұрын

The last image in Galadriel's mirror..........(She gasps!)....John Wick's reflection, holding a Marker in one hand and a Heckler and Koch P30L in the other.... *"The High Table has sent me to stop this embarrassing mess"*

@overtexpression2299 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video. While many channels have been pointing out these issues, it has been difficult to find videos which present them in such a dispassionate way. Your narrative style seems perfect for presenting these without mockery or hyperbole, instead stating clearly the issues that we are likely to see when this show premieres.

@DarthDevorin Жыл бұрын

"Back to the book, back to the book!" "What book?" "The Book Tolkien Never Wrote."

@lordmuaddib Жыл бұрын

uhm, i'm honestly more mad to the tolkien estate for being fine with all this scenario change, if they don't say anything it means that those writers have been greenlit to release this dumpster fire as is.

@eldorados_lost_searcher Жыл бұрын

I've only read LOTR once about nineteen years ago, and alarm bells have been ringing in my head for a while now.

@JessWLStuart Жыл бұрын

It's sad to see so much money spent on something Tolkien "inspired". It means anything actually based on Tolkien's second age work won't be funded.

@Ki_Adi_Mundi Жыл бұрын

I think the fact that they're going to release it on the anniversary of Tolkien's death shows us just how much literal contempt they have for him. I guarantee all the lore changes have been done with the intentionally smug purpose of erasing historical fact and replacing it with their own hypocritical and ideological narratives.

@headrockbeats Жыл бұрын

I'm afraid I wouldn't give them any more trust no matter what they said. I'm sick and tired of fanfiction writers messing with masterpieces for money.

@AlecMuller Жыл бұрын

Far too many people think you can turn a lie into the truth by repeating it enough times.

@CondeAlberto Жыл бұрын

I remember watching one of your videos about Dune last year, and I dont know why I wasn´t subscribed to your channel yet. Well I just fixed that anomaly. You pointed out , with respect and good manners, how the showrunners and the actors in "The rings of Amazon" have blatantly lied to us. It is a pleasure watching your videos and listening to what you have to say. Kudos to you, well done. I, for one, will be watching your videos.

@catinore3837 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your eloquent and respectful exposé of the many glaring problems with Amazon’s hubristic endeavor. You are a credit to the faithful who hold the line against the degrading of Tolkien’s life’s work. We need more videos like this.

@crozraven Жыл бұрын

Common sense already answered pretty simply that this whole switcheroo mean is AMAZON are afraid af as they pretty much burned a billion dollar budget on a wokenism project that massively denied by casual & hardcore fans of LOTR. It's as simple as that.

@JayneTheory Жыл бұрын

They don't know what else to do!

@seldomseensmith4684 Жыл бұрын

You are spot on in your analysis! As far as why they continue to lie about this abomination: 1) Both mckay and the other one, know that if they don't the show is doomed from the first episode. At least this way they'll get some viewers at the start before it tanks. 2) These 2 guys both came out of abram's bad robot factory of horrors and have learned from him - make sure your contract includes a piece of the merch sales then make the show at least 25% different so the merch is completely different from the original merch increasing they're return. 3) They, like jj, are very untalented and must rely on 'smoke & mirrors' to get an audience to watch any of their drivel - unfortunately they're the new type of 'woke writers' that have taken over hollywood lately. What's laughable is the idea that they say/believe their 'channeling' Prof. Tolkien - If he was still alive he'd admonish them and their 'story' as 'having absolutely no respect for his story, writings or him' and he would have put a stop to this travesty before it even began. It's a sad truth that once the creatives pass their heirs, who could never create anything, only view their creation as a money making vehicle, not the labor of love that their benefactor obviously viewed it. Happened with Isaac Asimov's & Robert Jordan's stories as well, just look at what's been done to Foundation & The Wheel of Time.

@dreaming_cthulhu Жыл бұрын

Amazon choosing writers with almost no experience to run a huge show like this is the business decision equivalent of New Coke

@disparutoo Жыл бұрын

I cant wait to see Daniel Jackson defend a zpm from Morgoth.

@NerdCookies Жыл бұрын

When Jack Oneill said "You shall not pass" I cried

@spacedredd Жыл бұрын

Nerd Cookies, thank you soo much for keeping us informed about Rings of Power. I'm gonna draw a parallel that happened in the 90s. There was a movie adaptation of a sci-fi book. A book that I had really enjoyed reading as a teenager. It was influential in some of my core values. The director made it a point not to read the book, and turned the story into satirical political statement. Characters were changed, gender swapped, even race was ignored. The only thing that was in common w/the book was the title... Starship Troopers. Movie makers really don't care about the substance of a written story. They just want $$$. I hope Rings of Fire is entertaining, but unlike what Jackson did (he did the best job he could staying true to the books) I fear this production will just share basic terms/elements of the book. Please keep up the great work you do...

@drfaustus1553 Жыл бұрын

The best thing to do if you truly love Tolkien is to completely ignore anything to do with this show. A set of crap viewing figures and a wall of silence will send a firm message.

@RottenPopReviews Жыл бұрын

I love expanding on Tokens work. Expanding. Not lying. You know the difference.

@firebearva Жыл бұрын

Payne and McKay are writing this series not for people who have read Tolkien's works, or are knowledgeable about the writings, but for those who have no knowledge of Tolkien. By doing so they can push their social and political agenda on the audience like so many other TV series have done and continue to do.

@dangerousleeabrams6737 Жыл бұрын

I think that we should start a petition that when the rings of power comes out we all buy copies of the silmarillion to read what Tolkien truly wrote so we can have more reason to laugh at the show runners and the actors...

@twelve11 Жыл бұрын

So rather than come up with their own story, their own world, their own characters, they choose to destroy an existing work of art. This is Hollywood, I can't stand it.

@CaesiusX Жыл бұрын

They have little choice but to double-down on their BS. 😒

@paulbouwmeester8793 Жыл бұрын

In recent years Star Trek, Star Wars and Game of Thrones are being vandalised beyond recognition. It was only to be expected that The Rings of Power would undergo the same. Sad but true. I still have high hopes for Dune, though.

@kevins4213 Жыл бұрын

"It's based on two lines in an Appendix, but black female dwarves and kung fu floating elves are what Tolkien really meant mmkay?"

@nickmccabe4769 Жыл бұрын

Excellent video! I'm with you all the way. For me, I'm very much the type of person who appreciates honesty. Had they been upfront from the beginning, perhaps I could have gotten behind it. But the messaging behind the scenes, the interviews with the actors, the endless articles and the few clips we've all seen so far have done nothing to assuage the growing fear I have that this show is going to be a horrendous and ridiculously expensive mess. The sad thing is: it will probably do very well. We're up against people who made such things as Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey, After and Keeping Up with the Kardashians popular. There's no accounting for taste. 🤷‍♂️

@jeffhayes6843 Жыл бұрын

It just seems like every single piece of information we get about this series enforces fans initial feeling that this entire enterprise was nothing more than a cash grab with no intention to honor or even respect the works of Tolkien on any level. And, as a massive fan I do feel personally disrespected. I know I shouldn’t but I do.

@kennichols3992 Жыл бұрын

As I peer into my version of Galadriel's Mirror (a Home Depot 5-gallon bucket), I see the showrunners loading up their trebuchets with piles of X-ism and X-phobe accusations, aimed right at you. "You ... Shall ... Not ... Criticize!"

@Kevin_Street Жыл бұрын

It's all about branding. They want their show to be perceived as part of the same brand as the Peter Jackson movies. If they were to come clean and say this show is their interpretation of the material they have the rights to, it would be obvious that it's not the same as the LoTR that so many people love. Most of the people who'll watch Rings of Power on Amazon Prime aren't aware of channels like this one. They probably don't know any more about the series than what the trailers have shown, plus maybe a few puff pieces in magazines and major websites. The strategy is probably to keep any controversy to a minimum among the more highly educated fans, so it won't penetrate to the social media that casual viewers use.

@LiuGondor Жыл бұрын

I'd rather wait ten more years for a faithful adaptation than get this in two weeks time.

@dfailsthemost Жыл бұрын

I mean, they're given marketing scripts to stick to. They end up fighting to stick to the predetermined message. It's not wise or right, but that's why they just keep lying.

@stephendaley266 Жыл бұрын

This is the Tolkien equivalent of "inspired by a true story". "Inspired by" as in there are Elves, Dwarves, and Humans living in a place called Middle Earth. Any other similarities to actual Tolkien writings are purely coincidental.

@evandavies16 Жыл бұрын

What akes this sad in my eyes is that I'm a fan of Shadow of War. A game series that makes it very clear that it isn't in any way canon but feels so much more faithful to Tolkien. And this is a game where you go about making an orc army to fight Sauron.

@MonkeySocs Жыл бұрын

They seemed consumed by arrogance, ignorance, narcissism and a complete disrespect for Tolkien and the fans.

@Dustbinlid1 Жыл бұрын

I think the showrunners are more than correct with their deep roots connecting to Tolkien's work. As roots go deeper, they become smaller, more frail and much harder to find.

@jimmywrangles Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the upload Elaine, Much appreciated as always.

@RoninDave Жыл бұрын

It's one thing to make fictional characters in a story that are either side characters or a compilation character but what on earth is the point of adding a sister to Isildur's family? This is like if the Jackson films put in extra characters into the Fellowship of the Ring like Frodo's older sister who was always looking out for him and Aragorn's female cousin who is always trying to prove herself to be a ranger. People understand in adaptions there has to be changes but you'd think in a billion dollar show that has five seasons they'd prioritize on the stuff Tolkien said happened in the 2nd Age which was pretty extensive rather than add all this extra stuff and characters.

@kadourimdou43 Жыл бұрын

It looks and sounds like it will be really poor. Giving it a miss, as it won’t be what the author intended, and should have been an original fantasy series.

@trenwilson6613 Жыл бұрын

I am definitely one of those people that would give them a break if they were open and honest about what they were doing. I also think that even in their current limitations that there were better stories to tell.

@ecurb10 Жыл бұрын

Thank you again Nerd Cookies for a great comment piece. But I keep wondering why the Tolkien estate allowed this to happen! Surely they would've retained some control over it? And seriously, there are enough great stories written about or alluded to in his writings without having to invent one. Very disappointed. (I wonder what Steve Colbert thinks of it all, given he's such a big fan and he was hosting that comic con panel!).

@megatronjenkins2473 Жыл бұрын

I think even harder that, even though I just got Free Access to Amazon Video, I'm still gonna pass on this. Once again, Cookie, thanks for saving me precious time!

@a.r.mproductions5616 Жыл бұрын

Thank the Lord they didn’t get the rights to the actual material. I’d be even more stressed if they used the actual works of Tolkien based off how they’ve been acting.

@rushinkaratedo3480 Жыл бұрын

Much respect for your channel. An alternate timeline or Marvel type "what if" would've been an easy way out for the show and it's runners. A thousand thanks for keeping it real!