I've been following Dave for 5 years, he is a rock star

Dave and the Citizen Science Foundation are doing important work that typically doesn't get done because there is no drug to sell at the end. Kudos to all of them and thanks to Metabolic Mind for sharing this information.

Here's a ChatGPT summary: - The study compared individuals with high LDL cholesterol who are lean, metabolically healthy, and on a ketogenic diet (lean mass hyper-responders) to a control group from the Miami Heart Study with average LDL levels. - The lean mass hyper-responders had an average LDL of 272, while the control group had an average LDL of 123. - There was no statistical significance in plaque levels between the two groups, despite the substantial difference in LDL cholesterol. - Participants in the study had been at these LDL levels for an average of 4.7 years. - The study challenges existing beliefs about LDL cholesterol and its role in cardiovascular disease. - The study utilized coronary CT angiography to measure plaque, which is a more advanced imaging modality than coronary calcium scores. - There was no correlation found between LDL levels and total plaque score in both the lean mass hyper-responders and the control group. - The study's cohort actually had a lower area under the curve for total plaque compared to the control group, although this was not statistically significant. - The study raises questions about the context in which high LDL cholesterol may be considered a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. - The study is part of a larger research effort to understand the intersection of metabolic health and mental health, and the potential of metabolic therapies like ketogenic therapy for mental illness. - The study is not meant to refute the LDL hypothesis but to provide more nuanced data on the relationship between LDL cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. - The researchers emphasize the importance of individualized patient care and consultation with healthcare professionals when interpreting LDL levels and cardiovascular risk. - Main message: The study presents compelling data that suggest high LDL cholesterol may not be as significant a risk factor for cardiovascular disease in metabolically healthy individuals on a ketogenic diet, challenging long-held beliefs about LDL's role in heart health.

I have never been to Dr since teens. Best decision of my life

So happy you featured this topic. The LDL issue is a barrier for some providers to recommend keto diets. Keep up the great work!

Dave is classy on top of all his other exceptional human ways..

Dr. Scher is a really sharp minded man.

A fantastic interview, thank you - as a LMHR myself who, at the age of 63, is enjoying excellent metabolic health I have always questioned whether my "through the roof" LDL-C was problematic.

Blood vessel damage in the vasa vasorum is causing plaque buildup. These vessels do get damaged by High glucose (type 2 diabetes), high blood pressure and influenza infection, smoking.

Great work Dave. So thankful for your efforts

I think, high LDL is a problem if you have other metabolic problems (Diabetes, obesity, High BP etc). But it’s not a problem for metabolically healthy/stable individuals.

I'm a 73yo female, hyperresponder to the keto/low-carb way of eating. Three MDs have wanted me to start stations, but one relented when I scored a 0 on the CACS. I don't know what it was before keto, but I wonder if LMHR and low CACS are both results of some underlying metabolic/genetic predisposition? I guess that's what your research is trying to find out.

Thank you for your work.

cogent and robust information. Love the responsible dialogue

Too many are set in their ways and have letters after their names to then be held over their head to tow the line. Personal problems that are not fixed within the line go past it to find their own answers. Thank you Dave for standing up and challenging the line.

Thanks for furthering the science and discussion on cholesterol. As a lean VLCHF lifestyle person, I am very interested in this topic. Cheers, Michael

I'd like to see more comparisons of this group with high LDL but no CAC. To compare their genotypes, blood work, vitamins, types/amounts of antioxidants in the diets. ApoB being only the start of the CAC process these people have something protective going on and identifying them is only the first step.

Collaboration and co-creation in action. The best way. Dave is super credible and very relatable.

LMHR have triglycerides below 70. A lot of people ignore that and think that Dave’s work applies to them but they don’t match the specific definition of LMHR.

I am a different case. I have a 1485 CAC Score. So plenty of calcium, but on a following CTA test, pass with flying colors. No blockages, no plagues inside my interior arteries. Cardiologist said he thought my calcium was from outside the arteries in, versus inside out.

Great discussion, brilliant study !

What an excellent interview! Thanks👍

Dave, you are the best of the best! thank you.

Outstanding resume Dave!

Thank you very much for this awesome informations.

Thank you so much! Brilliant, and helpful

🎉 bravo Dave and team. Thank you!

I would love to know if any of the people studied had a reduction/stabilization in plaque or calcium...For those of us who do have some calcium detected in a CAC test we want to know if there is some hope that eating this way and/or being new on the journey and being LMHR can help improve and/or stop the progression of any cardiovascular disease.

Good work - stick with it.

My doctor was concerned my LDL was 124... I had asked for an advanced lipid test so I could see what type, but they didn't do that for me.. HDL was 52 and triglycerides was 80... My BMI is 21.x and I'm not concerned with the LDL number but my doctor was already hinting at meds, which I won't do.

I’m 74, and diagnosed with cardiovascular disease. I was told my LDL cholesterol is off the charts. I was told my calcium score was extremely high. Every male in my family died at an early age from cardiovascular disease. The only reason I’m alive is because I have been a Raw Foodist for about 24 years and I refuse to take the medicines. The doctors prescribe me.

I was wondering if there is data available comparing the two groups' other markers such as e.g. CRP or fibrinogen levels?

Thank you for this interview. Thank you too for the explanation of the difference between the CT scan and the CTA scan. It turns out that mine was the CTA which I had at the age of 65 last year, one year after changing to low carb. The result was zero, and with a high LDL with all other metabolic markers good (I'm not lean) and the cardiologist and GP wanting me on a statin (no thank you) I'm glad that I have the baseline test for later comparison.

I dont really worry about high LDL. I eat mostly animal products. Plus some fruit (no salads, veggies anymore). Feel great. I workout regularly as well. I cook everything on lard and dont really care if I ate too much fat or whatever.

31:22 correct, but many of them are failing to do even the most basic due diligence before assuming that. One time last year, some plant activist went through Dave's feed and reposted every single remotely positive comment along with some commentary of their own claiming that all of these people were taking false comfort regarding their bad blood markers because of Dave's work. I know this because one of those comments was mine. This person, who knows nothing about me, or my blood work, assumed because I posted something supportive, that I have high LDL and was doing nothing about it because Dave told me not to. They first assumed all of that, and then publicly asserted it, in an effort to use my comment as ammunition against Dave. The great irony is, I'm not an LMHR and my LDL went down on low carb. I guess, like he says, there are probably good intentions behind that. But that doesn't mean that some of what they do isn't horrifically repugnant and stupid.

Learning for 15 years about all wellness, functional medicine, biohacking... What I see that diet approach fails to address is, how light environment affects metabolic health, starting from cells and circadian clocks in them. And that light alone has much of an affect on cholesterol it's conversion into steroid hormones, etc.

Great video. LDL isn't causal of disease either

Max level of 591? Right around my range 😅 If i followed my fat manboobs indian doctor i would have been on statins since age 27.

It's been a bit frustrating for those of us who have been trying to follow certain guidelines since we've had issues. I was told early on to avoid ALL fats. No mention of sugar or carbs at all. So I avoid all fats for 15 years or so. The past 5 years or more I've figured out that some fats are fine. Now the cholesterol levels MAY not play a huge role. I do have high LPa so that MAY play a role but we aren't even sure of that.

We are fighting establishment that has every financial incentive to ignore facts. We already know LDL is not causal.

Hope all other test will be included including Test for Stroke and brain

Sent this to a GP friend of mine. Here is the unfortunate reply “Thanks Bryan but until all the heart associations of US, SA and Europe change their recommendations, i won’t be convinced. 😊

I would like to know the dates when these videos were made (which year) so I can understand the time line of this thinking.

The effect of all these new findings convinced me that eventually I have to cough up the money to get myself probably tested with the high tech scan used in the study.

Should we using percentage of body fat to determine lean mass instead of BMI?

Interesting study. When it's published I'll definitely look at it. Looking at one paper or another can be problematic. Until then, I'll stick with the overwhelming consensus by credible science journals which state that a ketogenic diet in the long term for people in some disease states may be advised, but only in the short term. When we look at the long-term effects of a ketogenic diet, while it may offer benefits for certain health conditions, there are many other issues to consider such as: Nutritional Deficiencies: Due to the restrictive nature of the keto diet, there's a risk of deficiencies in essential nutrients, vitamins, and minerals. Bone Health: Some studies suggest that a long-term ketogenic diet may affect bone health negatively, potentially increasing the risk of osteoporosis and fractures. Liver and Kidney Health: The high fat intake can put extra strain on the liver, and the diet's protein content can affect kidney function, especially in those with pre-existing kidney conditions. Heart Health: While some studies indicate improvements in cardiovascular risk factors, the high intake of saturated fats can increase the risk of heart disease in some individuals. Gastrointestinal Issues: The diet can lead to constipation or other gastrointestinal disturbances due to low fiber intake. Risk of Hypoglycemia: For people with diabetes, especially those on insulin or other blood sugar-lowering medications, there's a risk of dangerously low blood sugar levels. Ketoacidosis: Though rare, non-diabetic ketoacidosis can occur, especially in situations like prolonged fasting or alcohol abuse. Mood and Cognitive Effects: Some individuals may experience mood swings or cognitive effects, though this can vary widely. Weight Regain: Long-term adherence to the ketogenic diet can be challenging, and weight regain may occur after returning to a normal diet. Altered Gut Microbiota: The diet can alter gut flora, which may have various health implications. Increased Cholesterol Levels: Some individuals may experience increased levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol. Risk of Chronic Diseases: There's ongoing debate and research about the diet's impact on long-term risk for chronic diseases like cancer, heart disease, stroke, and other neurodegenerative diseases. To get the full scope of a topic, it's important to look for a consensus of credible papers, ensuring a comprehensive understanding that encompasses various perspectives and findings. Risk/Benefit should always be considered when adopting any diet.

Did Dave find specific values or characteristics e.g. like smokers, higher hbA1c…in the participants that had plaque versus the ones that didn’t had plaque .

Will mrna vaccination be a variable in future studies?

Cayenne Pepper and Turmeric is the answer!

My Dad died of heart disease. He never had elevated lipids of any kind. I'm the one with elevated LDL and squeaky clean arteries. So in my world "Bad" cholesterol is just a marketing myth.

I did not learn anything from this. Would someone sum up what they said. My cardiologist recently told me that I should be on the highest level of statin. I walked out without it. I think I'm a lean mass hyper responder. So?

This is a great presentation, Dr. Scher. However, you mentioned that the formal defintion of a LMHR includes an LDL-C over 220mg/dL. I thought the Dave Feldman defintion of LMHR was actually an LDL-C of 200mg/dL or higher. Please advise!

Hope Elon Musk will sponsor the research

Expected to find a link to the study in the description

Brilliant thank you gentlemen, metabolic health is the reverse osmosis key to helping large cohorts feel better, live longer and consume less.

Dr. Berg is a Chiropractor and is criticized for his videos. However, he is such a student of nutrition and has helped millions of people.

Say you have plaque at a young age of 37 but had great results on keto/low carb and you take a statin but stay on keto for the metabolic and weight management benefit would this be ok? I'm just trying to play it safe as possible and I hated starting a statin but I just felt like I has no choice.

Does any one know who is doing the animal model studies of LMHR?

I believe the lean body mass and low triglcerides contributed to arteries without plaque...

If there were teens or young adults who may be considered LMHR would there be a place for them in these studies? If we are not willing to go back to suffering & hospital visits but the price we pay for every other issue healing is high LDL, I wonder if there is a place for LMHR studies including people under middle age.

I am intrigued by the study. My guess is LMHR were healthy people to begin with. So such a low level of TG, LDL of 123 means they were insulin sensitive, no diabetics I presume. Similarly because of low to zero calcification I assume they were non-smokers as well and chances of not having hypertension. I know these are not mutually exclusive but it seems that was a group without metabolic disease and fairly healthy. What motivated them to follow Keto diet for 4+years which is very extreme diet and hard to follow?

Is there any possibility of extending this study for five or more years because that should make the analysis of results more reliable

Is it "normal" that my cholesterol is 226 measured in the morning after 12 hour fast, but 300 the day after measured in the evening before dinner after a normal day Wondering why the variation and which number is my " actual" number. Any thoughts?

What variable is he referring about area under the curve? LDL vs TPS was a scatter plot. There was no curve

The responsibility begins with the reader. (s)he has the responsibility to interprete a study in the correct way. The responsibility of Dave and everyone that is involved, is to be realistic, explain the study correctly and to not make it look like more than it is. First step: No One Liners! That will filter 95% of things you shouldn't say. 🙂

13:51 Dave, Does chelation clear plaque in arteries.. It's A Disodium solution given by drip

We treat based on statistical norms, but true discoveries are made by studying the outliers.

The fear that these doctors have of the establishment taking their licenses from them for not giving statins is disgusting. The threats against these doctors are awful and one day, we will get to the point where questioning the status quo will not risk your ability to care for your patients. I'm not a willing patient and have had doctors drop me when I refused statins.

I didn't hear about a comparison with elevated LPa. Perhaps I've not listened long enough.

What are you doing to make sure medical schools get this information?

Is the CT Angiagram not quite alot more radiation dose than a CT calcium score? I’d be keen to do both but a bit concerned about too much radiation.

Can it be that the LDLin this cohort of people, had mostly large particles that do not stick to the arteries to form plaques compared to the small particles that stick to small "nooks and crannies" and then form plaques?! I have been viewing videos that state the size of particles are the determining factors for plaques in LDL cholesterol....

Can't get used to Americans referring to 'data' in the plural.. I know that this is grammatically correct but in the UK my whole life it's been referred to in the singular. 😮

How does this not impact the LDL lipid hypothesis???

If I understand correctly Dave's and Nick's study is highly specific for exclusively LMHR tiny subgroup ... But Not for 2/3 or more of Americans who are not lean but are obese or overweight Majority of Americans or metabolically unhealthy A majority of Americans are insulin resistant For the majority of Americans, therefore the conventional recommendation by the health establishment based on thousands of studies with millions of people is to reduce LDL, to 50 +/- 20, not the still risky, pathogenic 120. And know your genetic, unmodifiable lipoprotein (a) And reduce ApoB

I need to find a new doctor!

No link to the study?

This study is awesome news for "lean mass hyper-responders", and it adds to the mountain of evidence against the case that LDL is "bad cholesterol". Therefore, isn't "New Study Questions LDL Risk" the equivalent of "Dog bites man" as opposed to "Man bites dog"?

This doesn't prove that LDL or ApoB can't cause atherosclerosis. But it opens that possibility. And it establishes that LDL does not always cause atherosclerosis. If we're looking for a single cause, the search continues (although I suspect it's primarily a pro-inflammatory pathway--either through tissue or oxidized blood components).

35:20 Bret noting it takes someone from outside an InGroup to bring new questions - exactly the same happened with cancer research which was stuck in a blind alley paradigm until a physicist with no cancer background was asked to make new sense of the facts. Seeing the same thing with Marc Girardot and Bolus Theory of vaccine injection injury.

LDL -> CVD cause and effect has never been established. LDL has never been shown to even associate with CVD. Therefore thinking about how much of LDL any individual should have in his blood at any given time or on the average is a gross waste of time.

i think metabolic approach to mental illness is very valuable. I remember decades a go reading about someone Dx'd with schizophrenia whose symptoms disappeared when he was given adequate vitamin B. I'd be more inclined to listen to this whole talk if there were a link provided to the study.

If someone is on keto and becomes very lean, will he become a LMHR?

I need some help/recommendations. I had a heart attack 10 months ago after being on a high carb vegan diet for 6 years. Now im doing a carnivore diet. This is my cholesterol from 2 days ago! LDL 12.21 mmol/L (or 472 mg/dl) HDL 3.21 mmol/L (or 124.13 mg/dl) Triglycerides 0.73 mmol/L (or 64.66 mg/dl) Doctors want me on heavy statins. I guess i wasnt expecting my LDL to be so high. I'm definitely a LMHR. Bodyfat less than 10%, extremely active and athletic (other than this heart attack)

Share to your 👨‍⚕doctors

Dave, i love you and your work and i can appreciate your reluctance to overstate anything but when asked forbthe elevator pitch in conclusion can you be anymore vague in your answer? I mean why say oh its pivotal and leave it at that? Thats ridiculous man, pivotal in what ? Too sheepishly reserved man get convicted as to what EXACTLY it is saying not just leaving us hanging with pregnant phrases what have no meaning ❤

So if I have genetically high cholesterol do I need to take statins?

The body doesn’t produce anything bad or does thing by random chance.

Dave Feldman made the exact same claim with Dr. Cromwell asking point-blank. Isn’t it impressive that there was no statistical difference in plaque between the two cohorts. He said that is not meaningful in one way or another, much Dave Feldman‘s disappointment. I guess it’s a cardiologist versus an engineer.

Next time someone calls you an LDL-denier, ask them "is that your term for someone who believes LDL is context dependent, or are you referring to the simpletons who think ldl never matters no matter the context? I'm in the first camp, please don't lump me in with the second camp"

Is the study still enrolling? I believe that I qualify.

Dave-big pharma no like you

-New Study Questions LDL Risk- *another* New Study Questions LDL Risk

OHHHHH YOU GUYZZZZ. sHOULD I HAVE KNOWN YOU PRIOR TO 2016, I WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A HEART ATTACK. MAYBE.........................LOL

Another nail in the coffin of the lipid heart hypothesis being wrong. Its not the only one.But this is a big one. The cardiology community claims a high LDL is causative in heart disease. That statement is patently wrong.

Dave continues to promise hard evidence but, to date, I have not seen data that would overturn published studies. Like others who rely on research to make personal health decisions, I wait patiently.

This research is biased. It is comparing people who are not on a keto diet. If that group consumes ultra-processed foods (upf) including the sweetened or refined carbs type, that group would be far worse than any other group. A better comparison would have been Mediterranean and vegan dieters (who don't eat upf).

Have high APO B, and Lipoprotein little a, plaque in my arteries gotten worse, been Carnivore 5 years.

The statin industry has left the chat....

Whatever increases TRPV1 and TRPV4 will -> atherosclerosis.