If there is no God, doesnt mean there are no rules. Its upon us to make rules and build our own morality. Quran doesn't come up with todays version of equality of men and women which is even better than that in quran. Quran didn't abolish slavery, human laws did. Quran didn't make peace with homosexuality, human laws did(atleast some countries). So it does mean that human - evolved- morality is better than what is shown in quran. Quran does not give equal rights to everyone, non muslims are considered 2nd class citizen. Women status is not like we have in todays day and age. Amongst other moral issues- problem is no one can argue with quranic morality as it is fixed. Thats what the issue is with Objective morality, you can't change things based on your evolved understanding of world.

Fee Crux if there is no being mightier than us, then who are you a mere fellow human being to tell me what to do? can you die like i can? yes you can, therefore what authority do you have over me to tell me what to do. even if you're a king, you can still die, so again what authrity does another human have over another to tell them what is right and what is wrong to do.

Glover dragon that's correct - If there is no God no one is above anyone else and I can't tell you anything about how to live your life. And that's the beauty of it,we are social beings living in a society, making our local rules and then slowly amalgamating more liberal values and morals from wider community. We don't need God to set a moral value standard, we have developed a good set of values as we have to co-exist. So ideas like killing your own child or murdering family members and neighbours is probably a bad idea as you curtail your gene passover and also hurt the group sharing benefits. If you remove God from all the explanations, the world will be exactly how it is at the moment. Random things happening to random ppl without any set plan.

Fee Crux who is to say ANYTHING is wrong or right, who's to even say death is wrong, what is bad, what is good, why is stopping your genes from passing on to the next wrong or right...dude, if you don't have a supreme being, then there is nothing to hold on to, you can't even build a foundation of ideas because what would be wrong and what would be right?...who would be given this authority, what determines authority and why does that determine authority.

Glover dragon One can build foundation of ideas as they are human construct only. Authority is who we humans give authority to, based on their competence and experience and knowledge.

Sam M depends on the actions of the apostate. Its not black and white. Sometimes the prophet forgave the apostate and sometimes he had reasons to carry out the punishment

@@detwankilgore8769 but the prophet isn’t alive today, so it would depend on a ruling given by men that know the sharia. If a man leaves Islam then goes public and tells others that Islam is bad and that they should also leave Islam, that man will probably be given the death sentence, as prescribed by hanafi, maliki, shafi’i, hanbali and ja’fari. In some cases the man may be spared if he repents and comes back to Islam.

+Anser Mateen Your argument is flawed respectfully. The Muslims claim to objective truth is "CONTINGENT" on there being an "All Knowing Creator". IF there isn't an "All Knowing Creator" and it's left to a limited human being then by definition it's subjective. When a Muslim makes a claim about "objective truth" YOU should argue against "God's existence" and nothing else, because by demonstrating that God does NOT exist you will show that his/her objective truth too is subjective. But you will "never" be able to argue against the existence of God reasonably. You will give me an emotional dismissal with no substance. I await your response.

His argument is right. A muslim has to argue for the existence of his "All Knowing Creator" with his objective truth. It is not of the other side to disprove the muslim's claim of an "All Knowing Creator". (yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) 'But you will "never" be able to argue against the existence of God reasonably.' Why should he argue against the existence of an "all knowing creator", you made the claim therefore prove it.

_The Muslims claim to objective truth is "CONTINGENT" on there being an "All Knowing Creator"_ . and how does one establish that there is an all-knowing creator?

Bilge Khan I'ts quite simple really. Look at what we know about the world and cross reference it with what is making a claim. What logical.

Omarj1986 _Look at what we know about the world_ . Would you say that 'what we know about the world' is objective?