What can you buy with the discount? Like 1.5 tonics?

@@marcoasturias8520 you can buy not selling your stat boosters or items

@@marcoasturias8520I think he means after Odin joins and he is running the armory you’ll get a discount on any weapons the character running the shop uses. So nosferatu would be cheaper but it’s a small discount no more than 200 gold probably

@@chavothemouse6687 4/3 in tonics... Worth it!

It's a good and fun game! I was just late at getting into it (and getting better than bad at it)

Oh mate, Nosferatu gave so so so much value on that run. Any time I want to do enemy phase stuff, Nosferatu Odin is consistently the best option I have. I actually completely disagree with what Zoran says, I think Nosferatu (and by extension, Odin) actually gets BETTER the further along the main story you go. The main flaw of Nosferatu is its hit rates. In early game, it's at its worst cuz a) you don't have as many tools to boost Hit and b) you don't have as much time to see your stats outscale the enemy's. It's a common occurrence for Nosferatu to go from absolutely needing Attack Stance to get 100% hit rates in early game to being able to effortlessly reach 100% hit rates without support bonuses in lategame. The only reason it wouldn't see use would be because the map doesn't demand enemy phase. In which case, Odin just swaps it out for Lightning and kills everything that way.

@@VeXJLOK But vex, you also won't take a 99% displayed hit on a boss and will delay a clear for a turn

@@meisterschwert shush no i won't i totally would give that unit a luck tonic, totally planned! 🤫

@@VeXJL yeah, and I'm actually good at the game and don't get by with Sol Ninja Camilla!Velouria

@@VeXJLit’s less nosferatu gets worse and more it’s outclassed by just doing vantage things with life and death. Odin can reach one shot thresholds most the time with calamity gate or a high might tome depending on weapon triangle and when he can’t you can always do 2 vantage sorcerers ( which is where Leo or if you wanna do it before he joins nyx comes in) It’s a nice option to have and still worth an inventory slot and all but it’s just something that doesn’t take the best advantage of Odin’s unique access to the samurai tree which is a huge part of his strength. Nosferatu is THE thing Odin has going for him early. Later it’s plan b a very good plan b but still it’s plan b. If you can get vantage setup with enough damage stacking it’s just better a lot of the time

I always thought he was good even at launch so seeing how poorly-rated he was by the community felt like I was living in a different universe from everyone else. The last few years of CQ unit discussion has been very cathartic for me.

Weirdly I remember people saying he was better as a samurai.

@@mvjbass9561 Yeah, I remember that time. People loved the high strength growth stats on Odin and Azama.

​@@mvjbass9561 That takes me back to the "Fates nerfed magic!" era Fates turns 9 this year, weird to feel nostalgic about it when I can remember seeing the trailer like yesterday

Same! I always used him as a samurai though cause that what was commonly considered the best class for him at the time 😅. He was easy to train and put in work though so I have nothing to complain about haha

Not as far as I know, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere!

We talk about Rev a lot in Mekkah's Keep, so you can join us there if you want!

Yeah if we're just looking at which pairings actively make each unit better over the course of a run Niles/Mozu has to be one of the better ones in Fates.

This is true, but using them together is tricky (I guess if Mozu gets the Heart Seal, then it's okay, but i'm not sold on that investment. Villager class gives awful pairup bonuses, and Mozu doesn't gain anything from Niles). Niles is a good Sniper, as Move+1 feels better than the standard infantry unit. Even so, he won't see Bowfaire until late, and I'm not sure which part of the game he should go Kinshi (which does hurt his strength base). Kinshi also gives slightly worse pairup bonuses than Bow Knight; I think that might just be the better class for him after he picks up whatever Sniper skills you want. I will say, though, I had tremendous fun with Merchant Nina. Being in a tanky class completely transforms how she can play.

@@jonathanlgill Truth be told I think trading out a Lance-locked unit with bad stats and no ranged attacks for a Bow-locked unit with okay stats and good skills at a point in the game where fliers are a big problem to be a very strong investment target. What else are you using those first two Heart Seals on, after all?

Mozu's still pretty bad. Better than people used to say, but her frailty, slow start even with the Heart Seal, and poor pair up bonuses / personal combine for an underwhelming unit. You already have bow users (and will likely get more as others promote, into Bow Knight for example). Corrin / Servant / Elise are all quality reclasses (though I mostly reclass Corrin through Friendship Seals, but it'a strong option regardless). At some point you probably should set aside a Heart Seal for Odin (though this certainly doesn't need to be the second heart seal, as he shouldn't reclass that early). Besides that, you have fun lateral moves like Sky Knight Selena (actually quite good) or ninja Laslow. Maybe you want to do an early Paralogue and swap the child's class ... There's tons of value in those early seals. Or, if nothing else, conserve it for Xander or Shura.

@@jonathanlgill Yeah Elise for sure but I’m not reclassing the servants, especially not early; Jakob/Felicia are just outright better in Butler/Maid than they would be in any other class at the point where you’d be considering an early Heart Seal. Odin would like a Heart Seal *eventually* but I don’t think he’s even close to the best user of the pre-Level 2 Shop Seals, same thing with Selena and especially Laslow (I don’t even think Selena or Laslow even want Heart Seals until after the Level 3 Shop, if at all). Corrin is too good in those first few chapters with the Dragonstone to where I’d ever want to get rid of that for a class they very well might not even need a Heart Seal to reclass into. Xander isn’t getting one until Ch19 at the earliest and Shura may very well just be a pair of Boots on any given playthrough (not usually mind, but I care a lot more about the free Killer Bow and Mend staff than I do about Shura himself most of the time). Mozu, meanwhile, can OHKO the Ch10 Sky Knights at base with a Bronze Bow +1 (which you want to make anyway for more reliable Captures on Niles, among other things) and her Dual Strikes will let other, potentially weaker units hit those same kill benchmarks just from her being around, which is really nice since Niles can’t be in two places at once. You’re not getting that kind of utility from anyone else in the starting roster besides an instantly-promoted Selena, an option you should only consider if you plan on benching a great unit before her golden period (plus she’ll likely be busy dealing with a different side of that map from where Mozu would even be anyway). Recruiting her after Ch9 means she has basically that entire map to herself EXP-wise and she can still deal with the Wyvern Riders on Invasion 1. All of that is *without* looking at what she does beyond Ch10. She gets Effie out of her bad starting class tree and is one of the only avenues to make Nyx’s combat not *completely* horrible (it’ll still be pretty bad, tho). She makes Niles and Nina better at their jobs by improving their attack, accuracy, or overall growths (for what little that may matter for Nina). Bow combat is so good that you’ll definitely want more than just the one or two Bow Knights you’re fielding, and as far as that goes she’s still a solid contributor for every mid-game map that features Spear Fighters, Ninjas, and Sky Knights or their promoted variants. Mozu is good. Maybe not amazing, but for the investment cost I think she’s quite useful in a lot of situations across the whole game. Easy B-tier.

For sure! I think CQ's gold overflow is a combination of a lack of items obtainable from maps themselves, as well as an expectation to spend that gold.

Sorc Odin is generally better at doing that though since Sorc Odin has 1-2 range and doesn't rely on crits like Sword Odin does.

It's kinda meh in some

It's most famously bad in Gaiden/SoV, because it's only available for units that cant tank, and the hit rate on it is only 50% (less in gaiden?) so its p much useless for anything except leveling up Silque with easy kills. In most other games it's like a whatever (or kinda bad) strategy thats overshadowed by better options. AFAIK, Awakening and Conquest are the only games where it is a top tier strat.

@@TobbRobb Faye can tank fine on hard mode tbf

fe7

@@TobbRobbit has some decent uses in fe12 iirc

What makes you put Leo above Elise? The enemy phase juggernauting power he can achieve?

I think the availability, great personal skill, and easy flight access all push Elise into “second-best sibling” territory personally.

@@jonathanlgill ROI is just way better on Leo. no acc fixing, no seal use, no fire forge; he does all that shit on his own

@@lagspike7763 I just had a Leo x Selena run, which sold me on him hard. That gives him Strong Riposte, Sol, and a speed/move pairup. It lets him replicate what Xander does as a Sol juggernaut.

I actually 100% agree with this. If you know me though, it really is as shallow as Odin Skl > Leo Skl > Elise Skl lol.

Objectively incorrect