As a fellow player I believe you should substitute magic

As a fellow player I prefer to step back and dodge then lunge forward in an attack

As a fellow player who has installed the nuclear bomb mod, I deem your methods barbaric

@@isdebatable2947 I happen to use the More Rifles mod

As a fellow player you should always grab the infinite ammo glock from your back to deal with any threats to the holy land.

I would consider a proper Absetzen or Meisterhau a simultaneous defence and attack.

what do you think of Eskrima which also deals with the incoming attack and is dual wielding?

​@@notlightbeam4889 espada y daga? Dos baston? (I can't recall the proper name for a pair of sticks, but, I think that is it.)

Back in the day there was no rule for right of way. People just died instead.

​@@notlightbeam4889I've been training in HEMA for almost 3 years now, and when I started I had been training in Eskrima-Kali for almost 10 years. It definitely helped me quite a bit, and gave me an advantage when I started.

but you can force your turn while forcing an opponent to end their turns, and that's the point of foil and sabre

If you think that then you have never fenced before in your life

@@hussarregiment7045 Ever heard of PIL, beating, stop cuts, and literally everything else you can do when you don't have right of way

@@NinjaBoy7480 I was responding to the OP, it's very much not turn-based. Since as you mentioned people without RoW still have options.

I thought it was jousting

Afterblows, and punishing doubles is better than ROW for sure. Otherwise the advantage is to the the suicidal attacker.

Yeah that's the part he left out. Right of way should apply to both fighters so it doesn't become a racing game.

The onus of not doubling SHOULD BE on the defender. It's not suicidal to confidently attack somebody with fast explosive movement, what's suicidal is diving for a bad counterattack when someone explosively launches a fast cut directly to your face. (If your counter attack is good, you'll hit them and not get hit yourself, which is *good fencing*.)

I'm not suggesting a right of way rule, I'm saying good fencers self impose right of way on themselves. They don't attack unless they have defended or dealt with the threat.

Unlike the other modern weapons, epee has no right-of-way, but there is an implied right-of-way. If you don't deal with the attack either by stepping out of distance and waiting for them to start withdrawing their hand, which by the way is good Italian rapier/longsword, parrying, or some other action to deal with an attack, you will both get hit.

Hema you don't generally lose points for not dealing with the attack. You just double. But most people doing hema will sort of self impose right of way to avoid doubling

dawg when he said crappy fencing it broke my heart 💀😩

I completely agree 👍 love épée

​@@IronicHubris757 The difference is that in épée you "choose" to parry attacks, in foil you're forced to even if they leave themselves wide open and you could get them first. He has something of a point though, in real life getting the other guy a half second before he gets you still means you dead. So from a realism standpoint, sacrificing your life to get the other guy is bad fencing.

@@IronicHubris757 I know you do, that's why I don't consider épéeists bad fencers. I said the rules can *lead* to bad fencing.

@@IronicHubris757 at high level of epee you will purposefully go for doubles. when they are not sure they can defend an attack or have been on the back foot, epee fencers will double. when they think they have a chance of hitting first with enough margin or dodging, they won't care and go for double, because going for double is not punished it's neutral. there's also the opposite issue in foil, competitive fencers will make fake parries to just change the right of way without committing to the parry. sometime going for a double in the same motion they only lightly touched the opponent's blade with.

Also, foil can be the least expensive historical weapon to start learning to fence with. A good practice foil can run less than $50.

And you don't need a ton of other protective gear. A jacket, a mask, and a glove are all you really need.

If you can't tell, I think foil is pretty dope. 😅

​@@jhlmcportfolio yeah it's a cool weapon but I have always preferred Épée.... Sabre on the other hand... Well those guys are strange and the weapon flops around like a wet noodle, never liked it.

@labrane hit Fair enough. focusing on Foil improves skill with the epee, and the epee improves skill with the foil. Appreciation for one improves appreciation for the other. We use practice weapons, which are a little more stiff than the electric weapons, I believe. Though, my knowledge of the electric weapons is very limited. I just know the practice sabres aren't as noodley. Having a lighter sabre with conventions similar to foil and the right mindset is still great for training with heavier versions, I would think.. But that's just an opinion at the moment until I have an opportunity to really test it out.

I'm not sure.... Both with only rapier? To be fair it's probably the HEMA that wins because of his sport that allows side stepping. Fencing has a very restrictive area of movement.

@@labranehit7687 it really doesnt. You have plenty of space to move offline, people just tend not to bc in olympic fencing it rarely generates advantage

@@bigmoz9900 man I have done Olympic fencing for over a decade.... You don't have much room to move sideways. If you did I can promise you side stepping would be a thing.

@@labranehit7687 Ive done olympic fencing for over half my life mate, well more than a decade. Sidesteps are a thing, often used in foil body evasion counterattacks, and having some limited use in epee infighting or as dirty tricks to turn certain 50/50s into 70/30s. Sabre forward-movement counters largely need the sideways movement to function. You have a whole metre and a half to step, its plenty of space. The issue is that with thrusting as light as in olympic foil and epee moving to the side can only really give advantage at the point of the opposition's full commitment, which is often far better punished with a good linear lunge or fleche that brings the point forward faster and more explosively, or a parry where the riposte benefits from similar linear length.

why

Thus is exactly how I've always seen all melee combat with or without weapons, bc if u did what he said all the time, then it would start becoming extremely more predictable then ppl think an actually rather boring sense it is just competition, flexibility of the mind an body is absolutely necessary for any sport of this kind.

Wait wouldnt ignoring an attack as long as they miss mean that you are just dodging which is also a form of dealing with an attack just not with the blade but your body? Because if you arent doding but just assuming the other guys gonna miss anyway thats not a strategy that just blind hope.

@@mcstotti8691 Right of Way refers solely to responding to an attack with blade contact, dodging has nothing to do with ROW (which another reason why describing it as "dealing with an attack" is a poor description), as ROW only applies if both combatants hit. If someone dodges then only one person hits and ROW is irrelevant.

yea, I have no knowledge of any fencing rules, yet I had suspicions about bs I ve heard in this video. Thanks!

Not really? I can't speak for Foil, as I have no experience with it, but I can definitely speak for Saber and like, that's not exactly how it works. You gain ROW by being the quickest on your feet on the "Allez" (if both are moving forward) or by being the only one advancing (the opponent moving backwards), the exception being that if both are as quick and advancing, then the first to strike gets ROW, but there have to be certain circumstances. An example is two fencers moving the same way until they're within striking distance, when one goes for a half-step into lounge while the second one goes for a normal hit within a forward step, with the point going to the half-step+lounge as that is the more dynamic/aggressive hit. If you're going backwards and you strike first, but both lights go off, then the other guy is getting that point regardless. You can counteract this if you manage to be the only one to actually hit (only your light goes off), in which case ROW doesn't apply, since it only matters when both opponents get a hit in (there's about a half second of time after a hit for the opponent to hit too, maybe one full second). If you don't have ROW and you both hit, you're not getting that point. So you do have to deal with the incoming attack, by either dodging (a missed/wasted attack will make you lose ROW), parrying, or (I'm not sure how to translate this) hitting the top half of the opponent's blade and pushing it out of the way (we call it Prendere Ferro in Italian), which often works to give you enough time to hit the opponent without being hit back, but will regardless make them lose ROW if performed well (and with an attentive referee). In all of those cases, you did deal with the incoming attack. If you don't have ROW and both lights go off, you're not getting a point. (if neither has ROW and both lights go off, neither gets the point, as opposed to Épée/Sword, where you can just gain an advantage of 1 point and then just go for double points for the full time and win that way) So yeah, you do have to gain ROW if you want to get a point on a mutual hit and, if you don't gain it at the very beginning, you have to deal with the incoming attack before attacking yourself, as failing to do so and getting a mutual hit will give the point to your opponent. Ignoring an incoming attack is the best strategy ever, if and only if you have ROW: going for a parry instead of a mutual hit when you have ROW is an extremely risky move (you can fuck up that parry) that really doesn't pay off, unless you realise there's no way in hell you're getting a mutual hit in that exchange. You can attack if you don't have ROW only if you're certain you won't get a mutual hit, by either hitting and evading or hitting and parrying (or if you hit and the opponent doesn't attack, which does happen some times). Regardless, you're still dealing with the ROW attack, you're just doing it during or after your own. If you don't deal with the attack, you get a mutual hit and your opponent gets a point. Again, ROW only matters in the case of a mutual hit. Of course if you're just better and you're the only one to hit you can ignore that. Obviously. But that's not the point of either ROW or the video.

We are playing a sport with rules. The truth is right of way fencers don’t care for being hit because if they see some try to do a counterattack, all they have to so is hit with it, and they get the point, so why always defend a counterattack when right of way exists. Also, especially in sabre something that was and is still a thing is some will try to parry the counterattack and then launch an even more aggressive attack from there.

That old chestnut. Right of way encourages poor *epee* form, but that's okay because you're not fencing epee. Arguably epee fencing encourages poor foil form, because it teaches you not to take advantage of your own right of way. It goes both ways - the bottom line is that each discipline should be fenced as that discipline; don't fence epee as though you're a foilist, don't fence foil as though you're a sabreur etc.

U can score without the right of way, u just need to not be attacked back, other wise will lose your point, is kind a epee without simultaneo, if some simultaneo happens will be decided by the right of way, isn't realistic but is pretty fun and combativeness, i love all the 3 weapons

quoting the rules: "olympic fencing's rules are there to create a unified and cohesive sport." If I wanted to do an 'actual fight' I would, as the video states, do HEMA. it's not gaming the system it's playing within the space set out by a specific style and ruleset. Anyways how are the average pace of epee bouts treating you? still boring as hell?

Epee is the superior and most accurate fencing

The few that I've encountered, like in a tournament setting are there strictly for safety, like, no trips / throws as it's at a facility with a concrete floor, no throwing things. And for a clarity only the weapons that you start your bout with are allowed, in that bout. (Mixed synthetic.) You can punch, kick, pommel strike, armbar, and grapple in HEMA, most of these would be an immediate violation of Olympic fencing.

You can’t really exploit and cheese rules in fencing, unless you feel like being labeled by everyone as an asshat, since we have yellow, red, and black cards to help with that. Also people who exploit rules, example Yakimenko who dropped his sabre to avoid being hit when he was about to loose, then won the next touch winning the bout, he has been constantly mocked for years. Also, most coaches kick cheaters out of there clubs.

Mfw sidesteps to the side

That would be the pris de fer in sport fencing 😁

OK, just read your comment, so it's self-imposed in HEMA, but Kendo still shows WHY that's a good thinking to have.

Right of way was never used for training for war, it’s for duels, it became a thing to determine who won a duel if there was a double hit, then evolved into fencing right of way for the sport. Maybe it’s best not to randomly proclaim that it made sense during war if it was never for war.

It is only true just after the initiation of the fight when 2 fencers are racing for the priority. This is only to create tension and to determine the fencer who hasn't hesitated to hit their opponent. After the initial encounter if there was no hit the real fencing begins.

No thanks. Fencing at speed with no protection will result in broken fingers regardless of how careful the fencers are.

@@wwm84 it will result in death lol and it twas but a jokep

You can do it trust me

there isnt much to talk about tbh, you tak a scythe make it pointy instead of scythe-like and stab ppl with it. It was improvised weapon for a revolt and not a war weapon

@@radosawbrzezinski4161 wow, u massacred all polearms. congrats smh

I only practice fencing but I have played around with all three weapons. You are partially correct, Épée rewards the first hit, doesn't matter what body part is hit as long as it's with the pointy end. But things get complicated with the other two as they have priority rules that make it so even if you hit first you might not get the point if your opponent parred and riposted you among other things. It gets complicated fast, especially in saber duels as it is an extremely fast weapon. Most matches don't even go to half time contrary to Épée where matches are slow and methodical.

@@labranehit7687 Thank you for the extra clarification! I'll have to learn a bit more about the other weapons and their rulesets.

its not a rule. i think he's saying that the good HEMA fencers will just employ it themselves in order to prevent doubling up. kinda like a counter striker in boxing

historical European martial art

Don’t know about HEMA but in epee the person that hits first is the one that gets the point and if both hit at the same time both get a point. For foil and saber the person with right of way gets the point and if both have right of way then there isn’t a point.

You can and you should in some situations. You only need to touch the opponent's blade on his attack before it hits you then hit him for it to be a parry riposte. As long as you do that you get the point even if both hit at the same time. But that would work with Épée because there are no priority rules with that weapon. The first one that hits gets the point, exactly the same rules as dueling.

As 3 dan, 14 years of experience in kendo I would like to state that it's not really how it works. Things are little bit more complex.

Safety

That's a sabre

Because it's not a foil but a saber.

​@@labranehit7687 the question is why it's so flimsy

@@half-duckprince3995one word: safety. The fact that it is flimsy means that when it hits something, most of the energy will be lost by the movement of the blade instead of going into the object hit. Remember, fencers don't wear hard armour but cloth. If the saber was rigid it would be extremely painful as it would be comparable to being hit with a metal staff wearing only clothes. Fencing gear is only meant to protect against the worst case scenario: a thrust with a broken blade (something that does happen often). It acts as a chainmail to avoid penetration. It's actually ridiculous how many N/mm^2 this thing can take but it will not distribute the force well so you are going to feel the hit.

As a competitive Sabre fencer, no he isn’t

Oh and have you put the bell guard in a guards video if you haven’t can you plz add it I love the sound it makes when it’s hit

That is absolutely not true. Everything you just said is used in classical fencing for all of the 3 weapons. And even if you're talking about priority that is only true for two of them, Épée has no such rules. I suspect you never actually seriously tried it before and you never did a match of Épée. Otherwise you wouldn't say it's a turn by turn video game simulator.

@@labranehit7687 Ive noticed a general theme among those who seem to like hema and hate oly fencing, they tend to actually practice neither or only try to self teach some basic hema

Everything you listed, and more are common basic things in Olympic fencing lol.

the rapier is HEMA, you're confusing it with epee, which is not remotely similar

Not true. Épée works very differently to the two other weapons and its rules are the closest to honor dueling. No priority rules, the first one that hits gets the point and every body part is considered a hit. It's simple and straightforward just like dueling and because of that it's the defence that has the advantage just like every realistic fighting sport. Matches are long and strategic as both fencers are trying to find an opening to exploit.

If you wave your sabre you are in preparation and loose right of way.