Ground News is a website and app that empowers you to think critically about the news you read. Try it out at ground.news/dawkins. They’re offering our viewers 30% off an unlimited access subscription when you sign up through our link before Nov 15, 2023.

I was raised as a Christian and it stuck with me most of my life. Now that I doubt the truth of it. I now see how it destroyed my life.

We all love and respect you richard.its just you have to pay for everything now. Glad you are still allowing us to watch these , albeit a little later than paying Members. It really does mean the world.

This is why there are no biologists in politics

Disappointing. No mention of the Balfour declaration nor Irgun & Lehi.

So glad to see Richard Dawkins has a podcast. Wonderfu!!

People saying that anti zionism is anti semetic with absolute belief is something i cant understand. It is not like saying I like the spanish but i think Spain shouldn't exist. Its more like saying i like the english but they shouldn't rule and control India.

Anti-zionism and anti-semitism are absolutely two different things. One can have nothing against the jewish people of Israel or the world and at the same time can have issues with the goverment of Israel and its policies toward the Palestinian people.

Why do I miss Christopher Hitchens so much when listening to this conversation?

Talk to people from there, and then make up your mind. Richard Dawkins you let me, and so many others down.

As an avid reader of Richard Dawkins, for whom I have great respect as a biologist, ethologist and Darwinist, I find this frankly embarrassing. Two old men chatting about a human tragedy that they don't understand and, what's worse, that they can't be bothered to attempt to understand.

He starts with "if we didn't have religion we wouldn't have any of this". Sorry, but what a load of crap. People will always find ways to disagree, fight and wage war. To blame it all on religion is so narrow minded. Now I'm wondering if I should waste an hour listening to this guy.

How do you approve collective punishment? The principle of individual criminal responsibility, as stated in Article 25 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, ensures that only individuals can be held accountable for crimes, emphasizing that "The Court shall have jurisdiction over natural persons."

Dawkins needs to address the origin of zionism and its grass root establishment of the concept, i have the upmost respect for Dawkins but i find this discussion very pro religious standing as this is a religious fight for israel & zionism intertwined. Who funds hamas?

In response to the claim that Palestine has rejected every peace offer/2 state solution. I believe it was Yasser Arafat of the PLO who accepted the Oslo agreement with the then Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. However, certain elements within Israel including the now Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, rejected the offer. Netanyahu spoke at rallies where people were calling for the death of Rabin while others were accusing Rabin of being akin to Hitler or the Nazis. Rabin was subsequentially murdered by a radical who presumably believed this rubbish. His successor then lost the next election to Netanyahu. Let me be very clear. I despise Hamas and condemn what they did but I also despise Netanyahu who today still takes no responsibility for tolerating and not condeming the extreme reaction against the Oslo agreement and his accusations against Rabin for the sake of populism if nothing else. There will be no 2 state solution while Netanyahu remains PM and I suspect Gaza will be occupied once again. After all he was not the PM when Israel withdrew from Gaza. If anyone thinks that I am antisemitic or anti-palestine for the above statement, then you are a fool. I have condemned Hamas not Palestine and I have condemned Netanyahu and not Israel. Rabin is a man I have respect for at least trying to come to some compromise. It's a tragedy that he had to die for his efforts despite all he had done for Israel throughout his life.

A spectacularly ill informed discussion

I never went to college very long and its cool to hear these conversations. Not even necessarily has to be intellectual just common sense empathetic people.

We miss you Christopher Hitchens

Two very ignorant people talking about a genocide admiting without much research...says alot. Expected alot more from Richard.

For Richard Dawkins, putting the mud on religion is more important than condemning genocidal compaign of Israel.

Sorry, not this one Richard. In the same way as the Northern Ireland conflict was willfully misrepresented as a conflict between catholic and protestant, and not a legitimate territorial dispute. One that, as an example of conflict resolution, can and does work..

This is a useless conversation as they're bot biased, no opposition! And the biggest mistake is that they think of Palestine as Hammas!

Hitchens said that the main problem was that God had the proxy vote.

Thank you, Mr. Dawkins, for the work you do. I would love to hear your thoughts on what you think, and what you think the late-great Hitch would have to say about the terrifying rise in fundamentalist Christian nationalism that is currently trying to take us back to the dark ages. I miss him. I think if he were alive today to see how had his adopted country has fallen, it may have given him to the will to live another 100 years just to make sure we don't go back as far.

People didnt forget about what happend at israel. People just realised what happend before the 7th of october and what is still happening today. Saying free palestine isnt anti jew. Its anti apartheid.

Ok, I am an American and I've been pretty confused about something for quite a while now. If I took a skeleton of an Ashkenazi person who died two hundred years ago and a skeleton of a white guy from Georgia who died in the civil war and I put them on an anthropologist's examination table and asked him or her to tell me the ethnicity of the two skeletons wouldn't he or she tell me they are both Caucasian? And if so, how is Jew a race and not just a description of someone's belief system? I do know that a person's race can be determined by the skeleton alone. Is there some law or something that says that if you are Ashkenazi in heritage you must be Jewish? Are there absolutely zero humans on the planet who have Ashkenazi ancestors but they themselves are Catholic or Muslim or some other religion? This is a genuine question. I am not being a smart aleck. In my country Jews are all different colors and backgrounds and I've never understood why they are spoken about as if they are a race like white, black, or Hispanic. I also have never understood why the jews are so hated by so many people throughout history and today. Is it because of intelligence or the ability to make money or what? What exactly did the Jews do that made them the target of so much hate?

@poetryofreality I have a question about embryo's and the development... it all starts with a single fertilised cell .. does it mean that all the organs will be going through all the evolutionary stages? till it takes hte final form ? just like the embryo as a whole itself? .. human embryo resemble a fish .. and we have all came from fish .. similarly ... can we see primitive version of heart and eyes if we examine the emryo's during various stages?.. basically each organ follow the whole evolutionary path and takes the final form ? -- does this make any sense?

As an admirer of Dawkins I’m rather horrified and disappointed with his view on this. I assumed as an atheist and humanist he’d see that the ethno-religious state that Zionism envisions is not something worthy of defense. His guest seems ignorant on the topic. His claim that anti Zionism = anti Semitism is mistaken. iQ Squared had a 2019 (?) debate on this topic whose motion is “Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism”. Opposing the motion is Medhi Hasan and Ilan Pappé. they absolutely dismantle the supporters of the motion. It’s worth s listen

Richard go back to the scientific methods to understand the real problem before conducting this disgraceful interview maybe you will regain the lost respect from this part of the world that suffered for the last hundred years from the west supported colonial settlement ideology

A state founded on religion is something rather absurd. It is disappointing that atheists support such a thing as an imposition of imperailism in Gaza. Israel is a Western theocracy founded on european guilt about anisemitism but Palestinians do not have to pay the european guilt.

What he said about the Israeli Supreme Court in Israel is completely wrong: 1. The "reasonableness clause" is only applicable to administrative decisions by government agencies, it cannot be used to strike down laws. The unreasonableness has to be extreme and thoroughly explained. 2. The cannot just "kick out" any government minister without reason, 3. The judges are elected by a committee which consists of 3 judges, the Minister of Justice, an additional minister, 2 members of parliament (usually one coalition and one from the opposition, sometimes 2 from the coalition), and 2 representatives of the Bar Association. An appointment to the Supreme Court much have at least 7 votes (out of possible 9).

Read Jerry Coyne’s blog. Quite amazing. However his views on the israeli-palestine conflict seems quite biased imo. A lot of people from both sides have to same point of view were they wish for death of their opponents

How Gaza is not a prison? Eletrecity, medicine, Water, who is in and out, all in control of Israel. For decades. What these Jerry guy is forgeting it is that Hamas is a group not the whole Palestine, Fatah runs Eastbank, and Israel kills people there too, they take them land too, even with Fatah droping the guns many years ago...So...the topic is complex, in a war both sides makes terrible acts, so these debates should have a Palestine side of argument, i think.

This interview made me lose respect for Richard Dawkins. I’m utterly crestfallen.

If we didn't have religion, we wouldn't have this conflict? What a superficial conversation that gets on the nerves.So disappointed with Dawkins this time!

Both sides have fallen into the trap of 'otherising' As long as that exists there will never ever be peace.

I had such a great respect for Richard But with this conversation with this gentleman(zionist) who I think knowingly is twisting everything to defend his tribe and present them as the only victim , is just too much to take in 🥺🥺🥺🥺

wow! I´m out!

for someone to have a human shield doesn't some else have to be attacking them? i guess all those kids under the rubble were human shields too

Didn't Bertrand Russell (who Dawkins likes to quote) come out in favour of Palestine in 1970?

@richard Dawkins I hate I have to pay to view some of your stuff, since when has free speech and knowledge been signed to a label?

I love the, "they don't know the history and thats why the oppose isreal" meanwhile 5 minutes before they both admit they dont know the history either. Smh i expect more from these two smart people

Richard you should bring in Noam Chomsky to talk about this topic. He would destroy each an every talking point from this man one by one.

I am extremely let down. I have so much respect for you and i think i have watched everything you have down because of how much i think you are rational. Read more about the struggle in Palestine. Your insights on the situation are extremely superficial, this shocks me. The ethnic cleansing that is currently happening as i type and that has been going for 75 years is so clear. Antisemitism has zero place in this historical struggle and the apartheid that has been enforced on the Palestinian land and the Palestinian people. It’s like you were driving my brain and now you hit a wall in full speed. Read more about this, ask people from there about this. I am gutted.

Saying "i don't know much about the history of this conflict" and then coming down so wholeheartedly on one side of it seems to me to be one of the least scientific things one can do. I came here for nuance and instead recieved the same kind of dogma these guys usually speak out against. What happened to consistency?

Equating pro Palestine comments as being "antisemite" is ridiculous since semitism is a linguistic criterion and Palestinians are semites. So how did the jews come to dominate being called Semites? Anyway, In this episode, the idea of a god to befuddle the rabid claims of one party is mentioned, to no avail. Both parties use biblical notions to dominate what should be clear hard historical data. A great disappointment.

Hamas = 200, Israel = 10,000. Hmm

I’m utterly disappointed in the way Dawkins sides with Israel a religiously envisioned ethno-state. I could excuse that in Jerry Coyne who is of Jewish background. It makes lose faith in the integrity of scientists

Excited for the new episode.

Richard I've followed and admired you for decades but M8 I need to ask You - If someone came + kicked in your door,evicted you + moved into Your house,meanwhile you are living in a tent next to a rubbish tip- I need to ask You - Would You be upset?... Richard I think that you have " sold your soul (for $) by agreeing to participate in this bogus "interview ". Shame on you.!!!

A bit of of topic. But may I suggest Noam Chomsky’s is regarded worthy for the Richard Dawkins award. For his contribution to scepticism and logic and integrity ❤️🎸😊

Lol at calling Palestinians anti Semitic and lol at blaming this conflict on religion....

I think an important thing to note here is that this is the first time many younger people have really taken notice of this conflict, e.g., quite young individuals who aren’t old enough to remember older flashpoints. In contrast, older generations have witnessed this conflict persist over the years and often hold more entrenched viewpoints. Therefore, many younger people are caught up in an initial swell of opinion and horror (understandably) due to Israeli civilians getting killed. However, as they witness Israeli actions and hear other opinions as the initial shock wears off, some are becoming more sympathetic to Palestinian Hamas. White guilt: A lot of people on the left see all Israelis as Jews and all Jews as white Europeans, so they see Israel as a European colony oppressing the indigenous brown people, and project onto them all the guilt they feel about what their colonial ancestors did. However, this perspective often overlooks the following facts: About 20% of Israelis are not Jewish, with many being native Druze and Bedouin who are passionately loyal Israeli citizens. Half of Israeli Jews are not of European ancestry and are a mix of Middle Easterners, North Africans, sub-Saharan Africans and Asians. Some of those purely Middle Eastern Jews have never lived anywhere other than what is now Israel for thousands of years, but have been there since Biblical times. Recent converts aside, even “European” Jews test out as 50-60% Levantine in origin. Covert racism: The people who see Jews as white Europeans also see them as therefore civilized beings who can and should be held to a high standard, but in their innermost heart of hearts they think all brown people are “wogs”, primitive and childlike, and so can’t be blamed for massacring babies because they’re not morally responsible for their own actions, the poor simple creatures.

An avocate for science discuss a conflict ignoring the history and facts. The same person who calls Piers Morgan a fool. The latter who clearly has deeper knowlegde of the conflict and displays the whole side of the story iniated by the brits.

Atheist protecting one religious community against another - it is religious war i don't support one side on another as my parents religion is Islam and me an Atheist -- feeling so sad hearing Richards views as i admire him so much 😥

So sad two eminent biologists I’ve respected for decades in their field of expertise can sit and spout such obvious bollocks about the tragedy unfolding in Gaza. Nothing happens in a vacuum and Israel’s behaviour and it’s support from Christo- fascists in the US gagging for Armageddon are ultimately responsible for this. Isreal have never wanted a two state solution, that’s why they were happy for Hamas to be a counter to the OLO who were ready and willing to concede the 67 boundary in return for recognised autonomy. Coyne and Dawkins need to shut up about politics (and woke btw) and stick to their knitting.

Oh dear richard you have no idea what’s happening

Israel deaths are Hamas fault, and palestina deaths are... Hamas fault as well. Magical thinking

“Israel isn’t an apartheid state” then goes on to describe how the Israeli authorities split the region into Jews and palestines.

Given that you've both said that you don't know much about the history of Israel and Palestine, why are doing this episode? Your time would be better spent reading widely and asking experts who have a wide variety of views.

Why are you talking about something you both admit you know little about? It’s frustrating listening to the 2 of you. You should know better.

4.57 and i cannot longer listen to this, come on richard, you can do better than this. Disappointed a colonized cou try wants freedom, does it matter what ethnicity the colonizers are!? Shame

This is the first time I hear Richard Dawkins in a discussion based on ignorance. Sad times.

this is wrong in too many ways to think that it is just a coincidence.. Gypsies are a nomad people, how would you like, Mr Dawkins, to leave your house and move out to make room for several million gypsies because another state has decided that for you?

I used to look up to Richard for his science and religious lectures. I wouldn't of never imagined he would support Israel's genocidal campaign.

Norman Finkelstein is the best on this topic. can't suffer only 1/4 of the length of this video.

YOUR GUEST IS ILL INFORMED!! i was expecting better than that !

Accusing Qatar for funding Hamas without mentioning that Qatar have paid Israel money that they then hand out, in cash carried over the border, with UN staff to the poorest Palestinians and that Qatar paid tens of millions of dollars per month to keep the one power station in Gaza running for longer makes it sound like Hamas alone get all the money. Israel have taken money from Qatar for fuel to run the power station. It’s hardly surprising that many Palestinians have a negative view of Israel when the Israeli government treat them as poorly as they do. I mean just look at the mess the Israeli bombing has made and how they tell people to move to the south of the country immediately to be safe as if everyone including sick, young families and old people can just move to a new area with nowhere to live once the get there. Then the Israeli government start bombing the south anyway. You can’t blame all the civilians be they Palestinian or Israeli and everything possible should be done to protect any and all civilians from terrorists or government forces.

Really, as you know so very little about it why invite this unknowledgeable guest? When you were writing the selfish Jean did you research it by inviting aunty's maude and just writing what she told you? So sad man what a loss

Just listened to the first 5 minutes and I find Jerry Coyne's comments extremely simplistic, short-sighted and dangerous. Saying the terrorism attacks were perpetrated by the Palestinians is both incorrect and dangerous, they were perpetrated by Hamas which is a terrorist organization that seized power after being elected, not by a majority but a plurality, and before the election they claimed to be a party that wanted freedom, peace and democracy. So the Palestinians and Hamas are not the same group, just like the actions of the Russian government do not represent the Russian people, or the actions of the Israeli government isn't done by "the Jews" or even "the Israeli's". But with the Israeli's, you can at least say that the government is democratically elected, although the use of anti-Palestinian propaganda by the conservative, right-wing parties is quite widespread and the attacks by Hamas do provide the bedding for that propaganda to blossom. Further more, being free from the river to the sea, just means that they want Israel to stop locking Palestinians away in a ghetto and stealing their land by continuous settling of their land. This isn't anti-Zionism, it is a call to freedom, equal rights and peace... We can be highly critical of the way Israel treats Palestinians in the present and in the past, without supporting the anti-Semitic Hamas or their actions. The Israeli government fuels the hatred and creates a breeding ground for fundamentalist terrorists by their treatment of the Palestinians, Hamas wouldn't continue to exist without it.

Difficult to take a guy with his toothbrush charging in the background seriously. Big admirer of Dawkins but his analytical abilities have suffered bit since he unfortunately suffered a stroke.

Right from the beginning I can say this isn’t worth watching. At 2:30 this man pretty much says that antizionism is antisemitism. That’s enough for me to know that this guy doesn’t have a clue about what he’s talking about. A bit disappointed with Dawkins to have such a clueless person on his show.

Characterizing anti-Zionism as antisemitic obscures legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and actions. It's used as a political ploy in order to stifle legitimate criticism of Israel.

The people of Spain is not a religion though, false equivalence

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? I disagree. Zionism is a religiously-based political movement. Not that Islamic theocracies aren't, but Zionism as a political idea is held by many non-Jews, like 'Christians for Israel'. Not the same thing at all.

Richard I’m deeply disappointed by this episode. The Bias here is ridiculous. I’m deeply influenced by you and indeed my acceptance of atheism is down to you but I’m staggered by this episode. This interview should not have happened until there was a better understanding of this situation by you and your guest, certainly it would be more beneficial to have political scientist( s) involved with this. I have sympathy with Israel in regards to the terrorist attack and yes HAMAS is a major evil that doesn’t only want to obliterate the Jewish people but are subjecting the Palestinian people to abuse also. However, the international condemnation of Israel is not antisemitism or anti Zionism, it’s about the fact that Israel is making direct strikes on Hospitals and Refugee camps as well as areas that the IDF told Palestinians to move too. The United Nations have told Israel that their actions are potential war crimes and have called for a cease fire to permit the Palestinian civilians to escape. Antisemitism in terms of international communities condemnation of Israeli is using the woke community tactics to suppress criticism of Israel’s actions. In my opinion the only antisemitism that’s widespread, is Israel using the same language and dehumanisation tactics as the Nazis used against the Jews. A population who only in the recent past suffered the holocaust should attempt to prevent such atrocities from happening again. Certainly the Israeli state should be opposed to such tactics. Netanyahu however is considered a Trump equivalent and as such is using tactics that demonstrates the might of the IDF. It’s telling that your guest speaks that it was common belief with Israelis he spoke to believed a war was coming and that speaks volumes. I can’t understand how a country that has anti missile technology on its commercial aircraft to prevent attacks, somehow missed this massive terrorist attack happening not only that but that they didn’t mobilise for a number of hours. If anything the method of defence that Israel is using, is proven to recruit more to Hamas. This was proved by the war on terror. Hearts and minds are how Israel could win this. The Afghans civilians are not the Taliban and the Palestinian civilians are not Hamas. Removing religion from this you still have the complex historical colonial issues. Dehumanising a population is always a slippery slope

Heartwarming common sense expressed through two geniuses. Thank you =)))

Israel is a country based on religion. How is it any better than Hamas?

"I don't know the history very well." "Yeah, neither do I." Well, I suppose the title should read "Two biologists are in over their head." Please use your eminence and seek truth further by inviting qualified scholars on the topic to educate the audience, rather than blindly walking the minefield of over a century of propaganda.

Richard Dawkins: I don't really know.. Jerry Coyne: Well, I don't really know either.. Both are of course correct! A classic and definitive example of why Biological Scientist should stick to Biological Science and stay well away from 'one sided' International Politics and Human Rights. 👍

This guy infuriated me. He seemed to expect Richard to laugh along with him?!?

Shocking to see biologists who talk usually confidently about science, spread lies AND acknowledge that they know nothing about the complex history of the region

So much for free speech I’m blocked for pointing out the bias. This is as useful and accurate as Two Historians On Evolution & Cancer.

A little heartbreaking to hear one of my heroes having such a warped view of history and reality. Of all people, I never imagined it would be Dawkins to be so ignorant to the truth.

Jerry Coyne was born to Jewish parents .... just saying ... I just Google and found him in Wikipedia... no wonder!!!

As an Atheist I would assert that this is an extremely ill informed bull crap discussion. For any Palestinian watching this, not all Atheists agree with both of these two. "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free."

I'm using tablet at the moment, so it's difficult to type the descriptions of the links I'm copy pasting. They are reputable people who knows very much of the subject and I can never in my hundred lifetimes articulate the way they have.

2:30 “it’s like saying I love the people of Spain but I don’t want Spain to exist” No it is not. It’s like the native Americans saying they have no problem with Christians but they would like their land back. Big difference. Palestine has no issue with the concept of Judaism. They would just like their land back or at least not to be trapped in an open air prison. Only my first issue with this piece. I’m disappointed so far. At least have another person on with another viewpoint richard so an important debate can be had. People are suffering and passing in vast quantity every hour.

Difficult to listen to this one. You can't let comments like 'antisemitism is antizionsim' go without some rebuttal or discussion. Couldn't finish this one.

You guys made a great fools of yourselves. Please go back to biology

Why does Coyne simply wave off the idea that genetics might play a role in lack of URM academic success at elite academic institutions? I’m not saying it does play a role, but Coyne doesn’t say why it doesn’t. Individual genetics seem to influence intelligence quite a bit. Why wouldn’t this be true at the group level to the extent that similar groups share similar genes?

Current vote count December 13 15:00 hours timezone (UTC+01:00) : Thumbs up 1064 thumbs down 288 | Most people don't realize down votes can still be seen you only need to install a browser plugin. I estimate that the comments are 90% down vote. The unqualified opinions of Mr. Dawkins & his Jewish guest are not popular. That is one very big thumbs up for humanity.

Wow! That was so one sided . Are they really scientists? They sounded like the two old men (sid and ted) who sit in my local bus stop who miss their late wives , despise the young and seem to know the answers to everything. Strangely, they never get on a bus. They are not really going anywhere. Hmmm!

I watched this until 1 minute 4 second mark. Richard you were doing so well for 60 seconds when you said you didnt know much about it - yeah, clearly, but you could choose to learn. Then you showed your complete bias (not ignorance) when you mentioned the N word. Listen pal, you're the kind of fool who thinks the british empire was kind and benevolent but other European imperialism was bad and evil. How's that for an assumption on my part? Many peoples around the world are happy with their deep rooted culture, they are content with the cycle of nature. And that's all they are asking for, to live in dignity and respect.

SOME Palestinians want to get rid of Israel but some don’t It is important to be accurate when discussing this topic so as not to inflame more prejudice and hostility

The Poetry of Genocide & Fascism with Richard Dawkins

Your guest is too giddy for my taste when speaking about such a serious subject.

The reason and rationale given by Richard is sharply at odds with his stance on the conflict a decade before, totally disappointing to see a mind like him justify and favour an apartheid country like Israel

Dawkins must be tripping balls if he think religion is dying in Europe when we have so many religion migrant coming in

Race as a word implies things are totally separate and now we know that they are not.