Red Dot vs LPVO - We Really Want to Like LPVO's

Рет қаралды 117,081

1911 Syndicate

Күн бұрын

We really want to like LPVO's (low power variable optics). And yet every time we shoot them we wind up wishing we had a red dot and magnifier. Today we go head to head in a series of drills to figure out if LPVO's can exist in our life.
Thanks to Accufire for sponsoring today's video!
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Chapters
00:00 - We want to like LPVO's
00:14 - Montage
00:58 - Opening thoughts
02:50 - Thanks Accufire
03:23 - What we're shooting
04:01 - Bill Drills
07:09 - Moving and shooting
09:10 - Stoeger Drill
10:05 - Support the Syndicate
10:51 - X Drill
12:45 - Low/high ready/turns
19:50 - 100 meters
25:38 - 175 meters
30:12 - The Debate
33:27 - Cost
35:16 - Weight
36:05 - Benefit of a magnifier
39:14 - Batteries
41:21 - Final Thoughts
44:40 - Firearms Legal Protection
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Пікірлер: 705

@BrassFacts 10 ай бұрын

As a LPVO diehard: that was a great video. in my opinion. Use as much mag as needed for the target, no more. 6x and for sure 8x is massive overkill for 99% of shooting, and really is only relevant for prone long range stuff.

@thesandman9357 10 ай бұрын

This isn’t a crossover I expected. While quite different in a lot of ways you both have great channels and it’s always nice to see more input on topics from people with a wide range of experience.

@Way2Evl 10 ай бұрын

They should be setting up the eye box on full magnification and in their natural head position. This way they will hit it every time.

@colins5142 10 ай бұрын

@@Way2Evl yessir. i've come to learn not as many people realize this as i had expected.

@nomad155 10 ай бұрын

Hey everyone, Brass Facts here

@cummins24421 10 ай бұрын

I get that they are also big creators but your refusal to call out the glaring issue of doing an LPVO review consisting entirely of speed drills at

@thegrayham 10 ай бұрын

For standing off hand comparison you should be shooting the LPVO at the same mag as your red dot maginfier, ie 3X. I never zoom my LPVO in past the 3-4 range when shooting off hand. This gives you better field of view and less sensitive eye box. If the target is far enough away to need 8x then you should have time to go prone or go to a supprted position.

@Quality_Guru 10 ай бұрын

Well said!

@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 10 ай бұрын

Unless you run a SFP, then get used to running it at max.

@thegrayham 10 ай бұрын

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz even with SFP, you likely don't need a bdc / reticle etc at 200 yards and in just like with the red dot and magnifier combo. You start pushing the distance far enough to need the reticle for holds then yeah, with SFP you are likely going to full mag so the reticle works. This is why I advocate for SFP LPVOs staying in the 4-6x max magnification range. If you want 8 or 10x max, I would steer towards FFP so you can dial back at intermediate distances.

@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 10 ай бұрын

@@thegrayham same. I dont even like the idea of a 6x SFP, but would probably tolerate it. Something like a SFP 10x is just wacky in my mind.

@EvskiiCF 9 ай бұрын

@acdrz125 you shouldn't need anything but the center dot when using an LPVO really. It's not a precision scope. Same as a red dot. Just gives more magnification for IDing and give the option for more precise shots at range if applicable.

@calitofla 10 ай бұрын

Chris is the only person who can comfortably shoot a Daniel Defense rifle with their vertical grip in the factory location 😂

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂 100% dude

@BrianKern2121 10 ай бұрын

That Yeti reach do be really long.....😆

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

@@BrianKern2121 😂😂😂

@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, two things from Daniels I dont understand. The use of 6061 and that VFG at the end of a 15" rail.

@jayyoung3876 10 ай бұрын

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballzthe placement of the VFG at the end of the rail is actually to help the rifles stay stable on the assembly line. Learned that in a DD factory tour

@jklop7841 10 ай бұрын

Red dot with a quick detach 3x magnifier for me. I’m a civilian and I don’t do Recce, DMR or SPR builds because I don’t go on missions. My set ups are all for home/self defense which would likely occur inside of 100 yards. Another amazing video. Thanks guys.

@BrianKern2121 10 ай бұрын

Tonight on 1911 Syndicate: Jake tries to express Love, but doesn't know what that is, The AZ Yeti admits to his red dot addiction, and the Red Fire Extinguisher makes it's first appearance as a new presenter......

@Andrewsky347 7 ай бұрын

You don’t zero magnifiers. You center them to avoid parallax.

@bestjobieverhad9584 10 ай бұрын

Lol, Chris must be huge. That stock fully extended. With the hand stop out that far and his support hand still bent..... on a 16-inch. Big dude. Great video guys 🤙🇺🇸

@officecomputer8887 10 ай бұрын

big dude....big target

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

He’s not tiny

@schadenfreud33 10 ай бұрын

@@1911syndicatesmall where it counts

@alexglenn2122 10 ай бұрын

Saw him at a suppressor event in Austin a couple years ago...he's a big ass dude

@Chretze 10 ай бұрын

The idea of going "1x or max magnification and nothing in between" kinda only applies to sfp reticles that were zeroed when set to max magnification and even then it's only at longer ranges where it really matters. For FFP scopes in general and for SFP scopes combined with guns that shoot relatively flat at shorter ranges you just set the magnification to whatever you want, nothing stops you and that's actually one of the main advantages over a red dot + magnifier combo.

@tylerhall6455 9 ай бұрын

this.

@commonsenseproductions5893 10 ай бұрын

Imagine spending 45 minutes debating whats in second or third place and never mentioning first Long live King Acog

@Youtubeuser1aa 10 ай бұрын

Lol can I get one for $300?

@scottnelson3214 4 ай бұрын

Long live the king!

@Heywoodthepeckerwood 2 ай бұрын

Acogs are way too limiting compared to both a red dot +mag and lpvo.

@roncterry 10 ай бұрын

Try flipping the magnifier or running the magnification lever with your strong hand and leaving your support hand on the gun, you might find that it is a little faster. Sure you may be breaking your firing grip but because you drive the gun with your support hand/arm you can keep it on target or get it onto the next target while you are making the magnification change and maintain your cheek weld at the same time. Also your strong hand is physically closer to the magnifier/magnification lever meaning there is less movement required.

@SmartShootersLLC 10 ай бұрын

The fact that they used a TYPE-A in this video shows true to what he said in their TYPE-A reviews. Love that. Especially being from Grand Rapids. Proud!

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

Yea man great guns

@avera9636 9 ай бұрын

Yes, I have a Type-A SPR 10.5 5.56 NATO A3 Pistol red dot plus 3x magnifier for past 2-3 years. By this time tomorrow it will have a 3x microprism with offset red dot. My 16" AR has red dot plus 3x magnifier. Honestly, torn between keeping it as is, or switching to LPVO +/- offset red dot.

@DizzyShizzy 10 ай бұрын

This video makes me think every other red dot vs LPVO video I have ever watched was bullshit. I realized watching this they can’t really be compared against each other. Thought provoking to be sure. That lens break from the ejecting cartridge is also priceless.

@bradd4356 10 ай бұрын

As an LEO I run Jake’s ideal setup, 11.5 with T2 and magnifier, and a 14.5 with Vudu 1-8 and offset dot. Two rifles in the patrol car to keep me covered for any situation

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

🍻

@Edc-Guy 10 ай бұрын

Perfecto sir. Thanks for your service to the community

@lgdurocher 10 ай бұрын

Also a LEO. I think having a profession really helps you find your “identity” when it comes to your ideal setup. I debated for years until I got into LE. The job helped me discover in real time that a holo+magnifier is ideal for me. At least for work.

@bradd4356 10 ай бұрын

@@1911syndicate and Jake it was a pleasure chatting with you in gallensons that one time 🤠

@michaels5210 10 ай бұрын

Jesus fuck how well funded is your agency hahaha.

@johnwelch5327 10 ай бұрын

I have a 1-6 sfp lpvo set up for a 36yd zero on a 16in barrel. This gives me a max point blank range out to 300ish yds. From zero to 100ish yds I leave it at 1x mag. From 100 to 300 yds I use whatever magnification I need to get hits. Past 300 yds I max out the magnification and use hnown holds on the reticle for 350, 400, 450 yds etc. I find this gives me the functionality of a red dot out to 300 yds( center reticle on target and pull trigger) and past 300 yds I have the precision of a magnified scope with a usable reticle.

@Seanedmund 10 ай бұрын

I’m going to be honest. I bought an lpvo because I had a few red dots and I just wanted something different. “My mission” is that I like guns and collect them because I think they are cool and wanted more variety. If you aren’t using these optics for duty works it’s just not that big a deal.

@VattM5 10 ай бұрын

Jake’s rant about the abusive relationship went on a little longer than expected 😂😭 We are all here for you Jake ❤️

@Tony-bg6vv 10 ай бұрын

I can appreciate all the honesty and non editing of the misses and struggles of the shooting. Now, that’s awesome!!!!

@chrissteen7501 10 ай бұрын

Chris needed to properly setup his lpvo eye relief.

@officecomputer8887 10 ай бұрын

its seems like everyone who runs the sky high unity trend mounts cant hit anything outside of 20 yards

@philipgentile4769 10 ай бұрын

I see a lot of the lpvo vs red dot videos. All I have to say is, it comes down to your mission or purpose you are using it for. They both have a place in this world. Use a red dot but need to push out further, get a magnifier. Use a lpvo but need to shoot a target up close, use a off set red dot. For example my mk18 uses a red dot and if I need to push 200-300 yards then I have a magnifier. My recce has a 1-6 lpvo and if I need to engage a target inside 100 yards then I have an off set red dot. It’s all about the intent of the mission. It’s that simple. Red dot mk18 is cqb missions and the lpvo is intended to hit targets out to distance off 600 yards maybe further.

@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 10 ай бұрын

LPVOs don’t make sense if you’re not going to use the 1x for 1x things. Just get a 2-10 with an offset dot at that point. Better field of view and parallax adjustment which you’re going to want on longer shots anyway.

@Billy4theWin11 10 ай бұрын

@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595which 2-10 do you recommend?

@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 10 ай бұрын

@@Billy4theWin11 If you’re on a budget, Primary arms or Vortex. If not, Nightforce.

@chaoticcaninejb 10 ай бұрын

Problem is people doing them don't know what the hell they are talking about.

@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 10 ай бұрын

@@chaoticcaninejb How so?

@MassJass 10 ай бұрын

Jake is shooting a second focal plane LPVO with a generous eye box and good light transmission on a heads up mount, Chris, used to tall AF mounted red dots, is shooting a first focal plane LPVO with... im guessing not premium glass... on a 1.5 mount.

@sribble1 10 ай бұрын

Windage and elevation magnifier adjustments are used to center the dot of your optic.

@cornfedchris58 10 ай бұрын

Yeah I heard that and was like…wait lol

@rackpull772 10 ай бұрын

This lol he has no idea what he's talking about

@m.turner1 10 ай бұрын

All of these times are done when the LPVO follows a red dot. Any time you do something twice, the second time is always more efficient. Swap up the pattern and the time for the red dot would probably increase by 20% over what you’re already getting.

@spencer7197 10 ай бұрын

I tried loving LPVOs (no hate for them, just not my jam). Red dot plus magifier wasnt quite it either. So I ended with ACOG and an offset red dot. Is the ACOG antiquated? Yes. Does it have a garbage eye relief? Yes. Is it bomb proof? Absolutely. And adding to that I have years of experience with it so it's comforting for me. All that to say run what you are good with and practice. Don't overthink it too much.

@Goldenwithaleash 10 ай бұрын

I have both a 1-8x LPVO and EOTech w/ 3x magnifier and if I had to grab one it would be the second option. I will say that if you have a LPVO, having a top mounted RMR adds a lot of versatility at close range and through NODs.

@johndees967 10 ай бұрын

This was INVALUABLE info.. WELL DONE guys.. fantastic format.. fantastic content.. fantastic production and presentation. You guys ROCK!!!!!!! Taking my LPVO off my rig immediately.. been struggling with this debate myself, but could not articulate or test it the way you did. Invaluable!!! Made my decision clean and easy!!! Job well done!!!!!!!!1

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

🤙🏻

@dav762s 10 ай бұрын

General purpose. I like the lpvo. Home defense I'll always choose my reddot. Just what I'm comfortable with and it's just stupid easy.

@zee4265 10 ай бұрын

Yeah. LPVO best overall, Red Dot if you’re addressing a known threat.

@fly-by-wilson3039 10 ай бұрын

This is probably the best video you guys have ever put out! Quality entertainment and perspective

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

Wow really! Damn dude thank you

@therealmrdarcy 10 ай бұрын

I personally love an LPVO. Not plural though. Just the PA PlxC. Good eyebox, 17oz, and under 10”. Hated the accufire. Hate most for that matter. My favorite thing about this video is a bunch of people will wanna sell their LPVO’s at a loss now. Haha.

@boygonewhoopdataZZ 10 ай бұрын

This is a big fat example of setting up the eye relief to your lop and lop to your eye relief. Clearly someone brought out their guns that they actively shoot while one brought out his sponsored rifles and accessories but training is the main problem that would need to overcome.

@tylerhall6455 9 ай бұрын

I was kinda thinking the same thing. Wonder if they set their eye relief on full mag when setting up the lpvo's... Also, I'm not familiar with the brand lpvo they were using and no idea the eye relief, exit pupil, etc. My vortex razor 1-6 has super forgiving eye relief and a nice eye box even at full 6x. I love this lpvo so far. I need to run it more to get a better opinion formed, but I'm not faulting these guys for liking their red dots better. I love red dot too.

@darknightofthesoulyt 10 ай бұрын

Imagine if a magnifier could go from 3-6x with a throw lever

@mattmurphy7030 10 ай бұрын

It'd be the size of an elcan

@luckyboyyt8582 10 ай бұрын

That would be interesting

@Osprey1994 10 ай бұрын

It would be an LPVO.@@luckyboyyt8582

@joshcarlson9352 9 ай бұрын

Just use multiple magnifiers

@TheRiskyDingo 9 ай бұрын

Elcan needs an upgrade. It's a nice concept but someone needs to modernize it.

@deanebrownfield6866 9 ай бұрын

Except for AR10 used at longer ranges for target and hunting, All of my 9mm, 5.56 and 300 BO rifles have a red dot with flip up 3x -4x magnifier and 45 degree offset iron sights. The .308 has 45 degree offset iron sights, a 3x illuminated BDC reticle battlesight with a flip up 4x magnifier if in Big Sky Country .or the Arizona see forever desert where I live. It works best for me shooting wise but is also budget friendly for us middle class folks.

@alexglenn2122 10 ай бұрын

EOTech+Mag all day "I fucking hate LPVOs, man" started laughing my ass off. Same Chris, same.

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

they are the worst arent they? legit would almost prefer iron sights

@daytonsmith8910 10 ай бұрын

@Chrisblau why do you hate lpvos soo much

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

@@daytonsmith8910 at 19:30 i go over why i hate them so much

@atropa4102 10 ай бұрын

Really interesting to see how many of your points in the end conversation mirror things that Hop brought up in his "What are Red Dot Magnifiers Really For?" video (which came out 11 days ago). Love seeing the different perspective but it's funny how things line up content-wise.

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

I haven’t seen that vid so 🤷🏼‍♂️

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

havent seen the video and Hop hates us so im sure everything we said is wrong

@SuperAbsolute 10 ай бұрын

@@Chrisblauwhat makes you say that?

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

@@SuperAbsolute just a joke dude i dont know if Hop hates us but im sure he does it was a self deprecating joke that didn't land sorry

@SuperAbsolute 10 ай бұрын

@@Chrisblauahh makes sense 👍🏽

@stevenlee2780 10 ай бұрын

I have tried LPVO, and Red Dot with 4x FTS Magnifiers, and then settled on 3x prismatic optic and an offset RMR. This set up is less weight, offset RMR is easy 2-eyes quick sight for close targets and switch to 3x optic without having to break grip to flip up magnification, just a simple rotation of the rifle. This is on a shorty setup as my intended engagements will be 100 yd or less. So far, this works for me with less weight and the 3x prismatic optic is great with my astigmatism and the RMR is for close “work” so astigmatism is not a concern (put dot “cluster” on center mass…).

@yipeeiaye 10 ай бұрын

Ha - the low ready fight again -that makes me happy. Great video guys!

@lonestarpatriot876 7 ай бұрын

Great video. With that said, I feel like these things always come down to what works for the individual and philosophy of use. We are all different. This includes our vision. With that said, it is always interesting to hear different points of view.

@cummins24421 10 ай бұрын

I get your perspective here but your premise leaves out the entire purpose of a duty rifle with an LPVO. 500m is not bolt gun territory. It should be duty rifle territory, and a 1-6 will let you still be effective at 25m with a true 1x while not compromising your ability to make 1st round hits at 500m+. A bunch of speed drills at

@Visual217 10 ай бұрын

Oh my God, thank you The trend of people being very tunnel visioned on the intent of the LPVO has been really tiring. It's a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none optic class that has a significantly wider range of applications/capabilities than a red dot + magnifier offers or an MPVO+dot. It's not better than a dot at close ranges nor better than an MPVO at distance, but it can do distance significantly better than a red dot and can do close ranges significantly better than an MPVO+dot can. I yearn for the day that people stop considering use cases in a vacuum, I would even go as far as to say that the LPVO is probably one of the more sensible choices for a civilian do-it-all rifle if you want to consider scenarios outside of home defense.

@joshb5719 10 ай бұрын

You guys should do a video with bruiser on this topic since he uses LPVOs quite a lot. I like lpvos that are biased towards distance shooting over ones with simple reticles. It really aint great at anything but i love having 1 gun that can do anything inside 800 yards without being impractically heavy.

@Xinthisis 10 ай бұрын

PLX-C is best bang for bucks

@Masta_E 10 ай бұрын

I have found that I can get nearly identical performance from an lpvo but I cannot say the same for red dots at distance. That being said it's easier to use a dot (even if times are similar) so i choose a dot for home defense and use an lpvo for everything else.

@darknightofthesoulyt 10 ай бұрын

Genuinely awesome video

@bama2579 10 ай бұрын

Dot with a 3x is where it's at

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

My man

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

100%

@user-mj1vb8jr6j 10 ай бұрын

Brah, nahh. Block 2 recce is where it’s at. Put an nx8 2.5-20 in a badger comm with an offset AimPoint. It is perfection

@dana2750 10 ай бұрын

Has anyone tried the new Primary Arms Gen2 1x or 3x micro prism? I’m thinking I might try one for my next build with a 14.5 barrel and 45 degree Magpul Mbus pros for buckup sights.

@dana2750 10 ай бұрын

@@user-mj1vb8jr6jthat would be a great DMR setup but a little to heavy for general use or CQB.

@HKGunPlay 10 ай бұрын

I use an lpvo with an offset red dot. I think it’s the best of all options. You have an easy time up close with the dot and you get the advantages of the lpvo in longer range.

@rdpillsforall6884 9 ай бұрын

Agreed. I wanted to go the magnifier route but being left handed it didn’t feel right when I flipped it.

@HKGunPlay 9 ай бұрын

@@rdpillsforall6884 I am not the biggest fan of magnifiers with the dot because it only gives you point of zero and not the benefits of lpvo elevation windage holds

@HelenKellerDenier 10 ай бұрын

You only use the magnification you need and you should lean towards going less than you need rather than more than what is required. I've been taught that you should have your magnification only where it helps land the shot but where you sacrifice the least amount of FOV, allowing you to take in more information of your surroundings. Also, dot and 3x micro magnifier has been my go to for a long time. I also use to have a Accufire Tango 8. Great LPVO and great company, but I'm definitely in the magnifier crowd. I like having a dot 80% of the time and I use the magnifier here and there. Also, you can take it off and not lose a zero. You can let a friend use it too. Only downside is it's 4 different lenses that can get dirty or fucked up.

@marzcapone9939 10 ай бұрын

I was going to say the same thing. Context is important, tactical, target shooting, or hunting?

@billhicks3415 10 ай бұрын

In 2 gun and black rifle matches I rarely turn my LPVO higher than 3x. 3x seems to be the sweet spot IMO

@colins5142 10 ай бұрын

Dear editor of this video, I'm digging the ambient spa music in the background. good choice.

@rjmacreadyoutpost3121 2 ай бұрын

I chose a Vortex Spitfire x1 prism for my goto rifle. It has an etched dual ring reticle but also lights up (if you have to have color) - perfect for soothing my astigmatism and I don’t miss the magnification under 200yards.

@connorw1494 10 ай бұрын

great video! Love you guys

@DLR2234 10 ай бұрын

Magnifiers don’t get zeroed the windage and elevation is to center the dot in the center of the window

@dowlingc2 10 ай бұрын

You're half right. Yes, the dials are for centering the dot in the magnifier. After you center the dot though, you need to fire a confirmation group, this is to check for any parallax shift, which is normal whenever a magnified optic is introduced. If the group shifts, you use the same dials, and repeat the zeroing process, this corrects the parallax error. Sometimes you get lucky and no fine tuning is necessary, but sometimes you can flip in the magnifier and see a shift of several inches.

@DLR2234 10 ай бұрын

@@dowlingc2 you get parallax shift because your dot is not centered

@Merk21 9 ай бұрын

Might just be shouting into the void with this comment since the video is a little older - Chris' point at the 38:00 mark about zeroing a magnifier is technically incorrect. All you're doing with the knobs on the magnifier is centering the dot in the image since that's what we as humans like. The shift you experienced is likely due to parallax. The T2 is a good dot. It doesn't compare to the Eotech when it comes to parallax shift though. (There are videos out there about this, can't remember who made em though.) I would assume this is why Jake didn't have an issue, but Chris did. Just a guess though. All that said, really enjoyed the video! It's always good to get outside the comfort zone haha!

@williamd8867 10 ай бұрын

ACOG/RMR master race checking in.

@rsornberger 10 ай бұрын

PLX 1-8 LPVO with an RS-10 offset red dot. 16"

@klee1410 10 ай бұрын

"I want to like lpvo's".... proceeds to shoot nothing but close range. Add a 300, 400, and 500 meter drill and we'll see where you fall right? And before anyone cries about those distances... pretty sure ppl have been hitting those shots with 4x acogs so not unrealistic distances. Also, you have an lpvo... it's not a 1 or 6 like an elcan... it's a 1-6. If you're shooting at 175m, don't use 6x. put it on 3x or 4x. I don't even bother throwing lpvo's on guns I don't expect to shoot out past 200. Just throw an elcan on it and call it a day or go acog/rmr. Red dots go on like home defense guns you're going to never shoot out past 50. EVERY gun I want to reach out past 200 on it has either an lpvo or a real scope. Magnifiers... suck. No one makes a good one. If you like your magnifier's glass... you have no standards and probably eat off the mcdonald's dollar menu. Also did I see that wrong or did you guys kill a camera lens with ejecting brass on the 100m drill? RIP camera.

@Citizendefenseindustry 10 ай бұрын

It's called video editing

@-RONNIE 10 ай бұрын

Thanks guys for another good video

@czardilla 8 ай бұрын

Good video guys , thanks !

@deekay270 10 ай бұрын

I only have one LPVO so I’m not a huge fan by any means but one thing you guys are forgetting is that in defensive or end of the world scenarios you’re not gonna be shooting at full-size targets you’re going to have very little targets to shoot at. people aren’t just gonna stand out in the open they will most likely be behind cover That’s where an LPVO over a red dot

@professionalamateur6169 10 ай бұрын

Exactly, just the size of a target's head at 200 yds is very small and higher magnification would be needed.

@deekay270 9 ай бұрын

@@professionalamateur6169 yep for sure!

@ZBeas 10 ай бұрын

I would recommend a higher LPVO mount. Your red dot looks to be a 1.93 or higher mount. Try the same with your LPVO and see if you have an easier time with acquisition and speed. It looks like you’re having to sink your head pretty low to get a good sight picture through the tube of the LPVO, I believe a higher mount would really help.

@MrCashewkitty 10 ай бұрын

Huge fan of both Ben and Matt. I have Ben's books and Adaptive Rifle. Their training methodologies have improved my shooting dramatically

@MichaelHollomon 10 ай бұрын

So, no. Magnifiers don't need to be "zeroed." You may need to adjust the magnifier so that the dot appears at the center of the glass. But that has nothing to do with POA or POI. It just relates to where in the glass your dot floats, and most folks (including me) want it centered.

@ericmacfarlane6695 10 ай бұрын

Depending on distance, magnification choice is partly based on FFP vs SFP. If it’s close enough, it doesn’t matter. The farther it gets, the more having a an accurate BDC or reticle matters. FFP is always consistent across all magnification levels, but SFP is only accurate one a single option (usually full magnification). Great video.

@witkidone 23 күн бұрын

I thought the windage and elevation knobs on the magnifiers were just to center the reticle in the glass. Far as I know you only actually zero the red dot itself. Sweet vid either way guys. Love the one shot drills. Get better and save ammo at the same time…genius!

@stevem4783 10 ай бұрын

LPVO > dot & magnifier for one simple reason for me. Astigmatism. I don't have a terrible case of it, I can still use dots somewhat effectively at certain ranges depending on what type/brand they are (Holosun circle dots seem to bother me the least,) but it gets really annoying seeing the starburst vs looking through an LPVO with its clear etched reticle. Whatever other downsides there are don't matter to me at all because of that one simple reason.

@jaredandrews379 10 ай бұрын

Really enjoyed this video! The comparison and seeing times put a lot into perspective. Im a farmer that enjoys shooting. If im doing anything past 100 yards i grab my 1-10 vudu. I normally use 6 power to 10 power and never use it on 1 power. Anything closer i use my red dot.

@ExplorinInTheWoods 10 ай бұрын

I run LPVO’s a lot and I use the whole spectrum. Off hand plate rack at 50 and I might use 2x or some stages I’ll use 6x instead of 8x because I’m transitioning to different targets ranging from 250-400

@luckyboyyt8582 10 ай бұрын

With lvpo magnification, 1st or 2nd focal plane matters in terms of shooting in between minimum and maximum magnification. Great video, gentlemen!

@ashaman03 Ай бұрын

34:01 spider is just chilling out on the magnifier

@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 10 ай бұрын

"Unsuppressed rifles suck" As the only guy at my range who shoots a suppressed 22 pistol indoors, i felt that in my soul. Ive got a rifle rated 36 cal can transfering because it was available, and after i move (because god for-fucking-bid i change my address in the fucking year that an eForm4 takes) im also getting a 30 cal can to be a bit more dedicated.

@ethan5.56 10 ай бұрын

I love my 12.5 with an eotech. Been thinking about slapping a 3x magnifier behind it. Great video as always

@mikelangelo2020 10 ай бұрын

Next optic video: 3-5x Prism vs LPVO/RDS+Mag?

@minilogoguy18 10 ай бұрын

Save the magnified optics for DMR's, a general purpose carbine of any length is going to be way faster with a red dot/holo sight with QD magnifier.

@EriMCardenasRC 9 ай бұрын

“Just for my personal Ego” 🤣🤣i just like this channel new sub here🔥👌

@travisolexa3074 10 ай бұрын

Living in Alaska and it has to be the ACOG or LPVO for me for 2 main reasons: 1. Batteries and -40F do not mix 2. Try cleaning fog and snow off of the 4 sets of glass the magnifier combo gives you If I was back in Kansas I would would likely be red dot + magnifier.

@avera9636 9 ай бұрын

The lens consideration get overlooked ALL the time. LPVO cuts lens maintenance in half, as well as the risk of something breaking. The battery topic is commonly mentioned, but rarely truly considered. Having an etched reticle IS an important consideration in the wild, while not in the controlled environment shooting ranges offer. ALL considered, my ONE go-to option is going to be a 3x microprism with offset red dot. Have not decided if my second choice will continue to be red dot plus magnifier or LPVO +/- offset red do . . . leaning more towards the latter with each passing day.

@noncompliant209cali 10 ай бұрын

I'll never understand people that think it's either 1x or max power and nothing in-between.

@DTreatz 10 ай бұрын

LPVO for longer range, Target ID, SFP for red dot bindon aiming even in awkward positions where you're out of the eyebox, depending on model very bright and fast dot (vortex 1-6, leupold, nightforce), always on etched backup sights Still love em, good for shtf imo

@MrDustinclement 10 ай бұрын

Man I feel the same way about LPVO’s . Got a nx8 a couple years ago and it’s got maybe 500 rounds on it. So I bought a eotech 1-10 a few months ago to try on something else and it maybe has 50 rounds. To be fair I don’t really shoot the guns that they’re on but man I WANT to love them. I just don’t. The damn thing kept fogging on me the other night when I tried to use it for drills on a foggy night. My dots didn’t do that and they were in the same temperature change. Drove me insane

@C_oprator89 10 ай бұрын

Great stuff.

@jakeblasdel3454 9 ай бұрын

A LPVO with a good eye box is clutch. It’s always been my opinion that a LPVO equipped rifle is a jack of all trades master of none. The ability to use a reticle at mid/longer range with the sacrifice of a little weight and speed is nice instead of hovering a dot and using Kentucky windage. And if you put a RMR on top of the rings and learn your holds it’s a good height for passive aiming for close work through tubes. Not optimal but it does work.

@igrathke 10 ай бұрын

No matter what anyone says the LPVO isn't a do it all optic and neither is a red dot. Each one has its weakness and strengths. For hunting taking longer shots I'd want an LPVO. For flat range CQB high speed stuff of course you'd want a red dot.

@OSCOCAT 10 ай бұрын

Genuinely surprised neither of you considered a prismatic on either your 1 gun or on either of your 2 gun set-up. I greatly prefer the acog 3.5x35 with a red dot offset. Best of both worlds and quickest of all when going between the 2.

@ryanallen2887 10 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. The TA11 has great eye relief. If I could only have one optic it would be a TA11.

@alphalegionaire 10 ай бұрын

This is the way. I ditched my LPVO for a TA31 and off set red dot and its so much better in terms of weight savings and having a simplified system is nice

@mattmurphy7030 10 ай бұрын

TA11 with piggyback RMR is king

@Osprey1994 10 ай бұрын

LPVO's ruined the magnifier+RDS combo for me. I really like the fact that I don't have to wear glasses to see clearly with an LPVO (-1.5 each eye). Climate also plays a part. Watching someone try to get water off of their RDS, and their magnifier while in the rain...definitely a reminder that you have to deal with even more surfaces that can collect dust+water.

@Quality_Guru 10 ай бұрын

It would be interesting to see if having a 1-4 LPVO would have made a difference in regards to having a better eye-box. Additionally a LPVO or Prism scope is great for anyone that has any degree of astigmatism.

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

I have said this on the channel in the past I have the strongest corrective contact lenses for astigmatism and that is still not enough. I exclusively run red dots as you can tell from the video and the only time I notice starbursting is when I’m not target focused. Just my experience even without the highest lenses the starbursting is a non issue cause I’m target focused 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Quality_Guru 10 ай бұрын

@@Chrisblau makes sense - thanks for sharing.

@Chrisblau 10 ай бұрын

@@Quality_Guru at the end of the day also this just for fun right? Like you shoot what you like and that’s cool to right? As long as we are training and having fun it’s all good at the end of the day 👊🏼

@Quality_Guru 9 ай бұрын

@@M4c223c I’m headed in the same direction.

@danielmoore8538 2 ай бұрын

@@ChrisblauI'm 54 and have astigmatism but it's not that bad with contacts or eyeglasses.What sucks is developing macular degeneration in my right eye.Thats a bitch.Don't take good eyesight for granted.Awesome videos.Thanks.

@tonyg8471 10 ай бұрын

Old guy here, with old guy eyes which work just fine---if you allow me to call time-out so I can get my glasses. So, LPVO is super practical, overall. Assuming the EMP was not accompanied by a mushroom cloud. Reflex sight is by far the easiest and most fun to shoot...inside 100m. Both eyes open, clear sight picture, low weight penalty, fast transitions. Go out past 100m and old eyes seek some magnification. How much depends on how far. Magnifiers are useful. Mandatory if rifle needed for real work. Thanks for the video.

@NoveskeKnights 10 ай бұрын

Your not zeroing the magnifier- your just putting the dot in the center of the glass.

@LastLineFinancial Ай бұрын

Making the 4:20 time green is top tier editing lol

@Not_very_grey 10 ай бұрын

I was an lpvo hater. but I have to say, once I decided to try one I’m a fan. On the flat range I’m just as fast with the lpvo as I am with a red dot. But when you start to mix in weird shooting position then the red dot is a little faster. But with any long range shooting thrown in the mix the lpvo is the most comfortable and consistent for breaking accurate shots. Over all I think an lpvo is a good pice to have, it makes a lot of sense on a do it all rifle.

@paulyp9853 10 ай бұрын

To add to my comment below - I have 5 AR set-ups. Two PLX's 1-8's with an offset RDS, an 8T with Eotech 5x mag, a 4t with an Eotech 5x, and on the last on a 5x prism. I like shooting them all for different reasons and wanted to get a feel for all different types of optics. Now if the SHTF I am grabbing my 8T with magnifier. I believe that to be the best dot on the market and that includes everything. I have or had a T2, Eotech EXPS 3-0 and prefer the 8T.

@lowlight8466 10 ай бұрын

Haven't yet been able to love THE LPVO.... I ALWAYS GO BACK TO MY TRUSTY EOTECH

@mtnbound2764 10 ай бұрын

this is exactly the question i have been asking myself. one rifle, i'd go 14.5".. and i want to say LPVO so you can get both 1 and 6x magnification... but i just hate the weight and size the lpvo costs

@matthewdokmanovic 10 ай бұрын

Anyone else notice the tactical spider chillin on the magnifier at 34:01.....just throw the whole gun away 😂

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

Lol

@damonsmith71712 10 ай бұрын

Love the off the cuff humor you guys bring. Hilarious

@1911syndicate 10 ай бұрын

It’s off putting isn’t it

@aribpm 6 ай бұрын

For me the key to using the LPVO up close was not looking at the target through the scope. Just look for the dot. For this you need a day bright dot. Occlude the front of the scope with some tape to get a feel for it. Then once you try a few mags up close remove the tape over the front of the scope. It works fast. 5-10 yards make sure to aim a little high. Red dots are still faster up close by themselves but are not as handy when you want to hit smaller targets at 300-400 yards. Still possible but you can confirm your hits with 4x and make corrections easier. Range estimation, BDC, observation. I own both and would not feel at a disadvantage with either.

@DDadams0 10 ай бұрын

21:35 that crack was edited in right lol?

@Digitally007 10 ай бұрын

at the very least you should have done 3-4x on lpvo to compare at the 175 obviously x8 is too much for under 200

@geebeaux 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, they live in UT & AZ and cant find a use for scopes???

@jefferybrown1806 2 ай бұрын

Love this review. I have a 5.56 with a 6x lpvo and a .300 blackout with a reflex sight and a 3x magnifier. One for 50 yards and in and the other for reaching out 100 yards plus

@erikvaldur3334 Ай бұрын

Most LPVOs under 3 to 5,000 bucks will have trouble with eyebox at full mag. If it's an 8x, try using 6x as your max. Eyebox will be much better. 6x is still way more than needed at 175yds. The closer you get to max mag the worse eyebox will be, generally.

@laneangelle8872 10 ай бұрын

My thought process on the magnification of an lpvo is I like to keep it around a mid power like 3x or 4x because that’s a very much usable magnification at close range and if there’s a bad guy at a distance where I would need to go full power say 8x in my case I’ll most likely have time to change to that magnification if that makes since

@beardedred0032 10 ай бұрын

Razor 1-6 in a badger ordnance 1.7 or 1.93 mount will feel about 98% red dot.

@J.Young808 10 ай бұрын

For my two rifles: 16” LWRCi M6IC DI with Atibal 1-10 LPVO 13.9” P&W Aero/BA on a PSA Turkey Day lower w/Elfmann with EOTech EXPS3-0 & 3x magnifier For EMP I have a 1x Prism.

@MrRhsmike189 10 ай бұрын

To be fair, both of you should have had a unity mount for your lpvo or a 1.93 height mount, your changing cheek weld and fundamentals. When you were at 175, you should have had the lpvo at 3x, so it would have been apples to apples. Lastly, should have been using the most "red dot" like LPVO's on the market like the vortex razor 1-6 or the kahles 1-6, would have made a big difference.

@Xinthisis 10 ай бұрын

Or the PLX-C

@Way2Evl 10 ай бұрын

Or the slx nova

@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 10 ай бұрын

Then they should have compared every LPVO on the market and every red dot and every magnifier and then theyre homeless. Its a comparison between concepts more than specific models.

@MrRhsmike189 10 ай бұрын

@acdrz125 I get what you're saying. However, they used the 2 best red dots on the market against 1 mediocre/ half decent lpvo and one no-name new company scope. LPVO's are designed for different roles. Some lean towards more red dot type rolls, Razor, Kahles, Nova (basically the ones that are screaming daylight bright), etc. Some are designed for DMR type rolls, which can also be half decent up close, the FFP models or ones with complex reticles. The Trijicon he used isn't a bad choice, but it's far from being top in class.