I'm getting a lot of concern over rolling with women who might make false accusations. I feel that BJJ class is one of the least likely places for a false accusation to happen. Here are my reasons (in order of importance): 1. There's usually a class full of witnesses. 2. A large amount of physical contact is already expected and agreed upon. 3. The kind of insane people that hurl false accusations for no apparent reason are pretty uncommon in combat sports. They require a certain level of mental resiliency that victim complex crazy people probably don't have. If there is a SPECIFIC woman that you think is crazy enough to do something like that, avoid her like the plague. If you don't want to roll with women without any witnesses, fine. I understand. But punishing an entire class of people for the (very rare) actions of a select few is pretty unfair.

You dont roll with women because you think its sexual, i dont roll with women because them humbling me hurts my ego. we are not the same

"intimate things don't stop being intimate things when you do them with the same sex, they just become gay intimate things." -A Legend.

I was friends with my birst bjj coach before I started. He would tell me stories of some guys going way to hard on the girls and he would then go hard on them to show them how it feels when someone who out classes you basically bullies you. Idk if he went about it the right way or not. But when I started I was scared to roll with females because I always thought I might go way to hard without knowing and my coach/friend would get mad at me. Then turns out the first girl I rolled with mopped the floor with my and turned me into a sand bag lol.

I think he doesn't roll with women for religious reasons. I'm not a quaranic scholar, but I believe it says something about not getting too close with women you aren't married to or related to. I know he's a pretty devout Muslim so I assume that influences his decision.

I agree with you on everything you said, but also...in my 7 years of wrestling, my team and I noticed a fair amount of awkward boners during tournaments when boys had to wrestle girls LOL

As a woman, if you refuse to roll with me as a fellow student, that is fine. I can't make you, and you can't make me. As a COACH, you AGREED and took my MONEY to TEACH me. How are you gonna do that without rolling with me?

Choosing not to roll with women is a personal preference that any man is entitled to, if there's no one to roll with. Roll with the coach.

It's Firas choice and he makes very good points on why he doesn't. I get your points but everyone is free to train or roll with whoever they want.

It's a personal choice. BJJ is a very physically "intimate" sport. Just take a moment to picture being caught in someone's guard. The point Firas Zahabi was making is that rolling with women can present very sexual thoughts and feelings towards that training partner which, isn't the purpose of one's training begin with. If a woman said they weren't comfortable rolling with men would she be criticized for her decision? Again, bjj is extremely intimate, it's therefore reasonable for either gender to prefer training with a specific gender/body type/species/mamal/AI robot. ;)

If your uncomfortable with it you don't have to regardless of whether or not they can find someone else you would never ask a woman to do something they felt uncomfortable with

I'm a white belt, and I was very nervous about rolling with women when I first started. I was nervous about rolling with anyone smaller than me as I'm a bigger guy and since I was new I was scared of doing something wrong and hurting someone. This was intensified by the thought of accidentally hurting a woman when I was asked to roll with them. But after giving it a try, I learned that everyone is there to train and get better, and many women actually want the experience of rolling with people bigger than them. Also, it's inevitable that on some rare occasions people get hurt, because accidents happen.

Great video! Keep it up, just because someone is famous doesn't mean he/she is right in everything and as 10th Planet practitioner, I can say that just because Eddie Bravo is a great grappler doesn't mean that he knows anything about astronomy, topography, or laws of physics ;)

I try to avoid rolling with women because I've had it engrained in me that "hitting girls is bad". The few times I have rolled with women, I've gone super gentle and focused on restraining them rather than smashing/submitting/etc.

Thoughtful and precise, thanks!

If it was the other way around, women dont want to roll wit men, nobody will give a crap. Besides, people can refuse to roll with anybody that they dont wany. Its rheir choice. Not rolling with women wont hinder your bjj training anyway

Firas doesnt tell his other students that they can not roll with women. He just does not do it himself.

I think you are spot on. that's all. good work again 👌

I personally think my body my choice should apply to everyone

He says he’s personally uncomfortable rolling with them, his students still roll with them

watched all your videos.... we need more on self defense and or reactions to other self defense system moves haha. You got a big fan here and follower now. KEEP UPLOADING MAN !!

For all the people saying “Firas zahabi is wrong” just to let your know just in case you didn’t see his video, he says “if you want to roll with women that’s fine, I personally just don’t do it” obviously that’s not word for word, but it’s something along those lines, he never says “you shouldn’t be allowed to roll with women, if you’re attracted to women that’s a no no, if you’re attracted to men that’s a no no” he just doesn’t do it himself, but he also doesn’t discourage others to do it, if anything if you can roll with women and not have a dirty thought he said that you are the holiest of the holiest and angelic in his eyes and that you’re so pure of spirit, so he doesn’t look down on you if you roll with women if anything it’s quite the opposite

I respect his choice not to ground grapple with women as the owner of his own successful gym, it could be that he has enough skilled women in the class and men in the class that he does not need to grapple with the women in his class. As for the term "intimate" the Merriam Webster Dictionary third definition of the term is "marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity" the Judo Ne Waza used in BJJ and most MMA gyms is marked by very close contact and therefore does fit the definition of intimate in the dictionary. I personally don't mind grappling with women but understand if someone else feels it is too intimate and does not wish to do so. Now, let's look at the clothes or uniforms and the actual positions commonly used by the MMA grappling community. You have the Gi which is equivalent to a Pajama or the skintight, rash guard leotards and the positions that are strived for are things like mounting the hips of someone laying down, the counter of which is to basically thrust up with the hips, a high mount which would place a man's groin area between a female's breasts, the counter of which could be to be slip/shrimp/grind out from under the mounter's legs, which would cause the female's head to be directly under the males groin area. You have a triangle choke where you force the persons neck between the thighs and press their head toward the groin with only an arm in between keeping the move from being a smother into the other persons crotch. You have the north south position which is basically the same orientation as the 69 sexual positions. Putting someone in the guard is literally wrapping your spread legs around their hips (open or closed) You have the rear mount, which is exactly what it sounds like, as a man you would be mounting a female from behind and even putting his legs in-between her thighs to stretch her out (hooks in). Passing the guard may involve stacking would have a female on her neck legs up in the air with the male compressing down on her before going around the legs into side control. The defense of side control may have the male table topping his arms around her breasts to keep enough space to move or otherwise hugging her to diminish the striking power of ground and pound. This does not even touch on the multitude of transitional variations that may have a man grabbing, rubbing or pressing his head or face into any number of areas covered by a bathing suit, the ones children are taught not to let stranger's touch. So, if anyone man or woman is not comfortable grappling with someone of the opposite sex, that should be respected because it is not necessary for skill development regardless of what some pervy coach says unless they literally are the only available opponent.

Yeah, as a 5’6 130 pound dude, I could never refuse... I’m literally average women’s height, like I’m the closest you’re gonna get if there’s no other women in the gym. That’d be kinda a duck move on my part

Amazing take. Love the content!

Possible counterpoint: Do you believe a famous coach would be morally right for refusing to roll with women as a way to ensure their character is never called into question. I know this sounds like an abstinence argument from health class, but it's a taboo stereotype that a lot of popular MMA women are dating their coaches. Is it understandable for a coach not to want to get me2'd and want to stay out of controversy by avoiding rolling with women?

I agree. I've found folks who do this, screw over their female student and tarnished any training given. We need to be careful of what high level folks say. That appeal to authority has allowed a lot of foolishness to permeate otherwise solid practices. I'm glad this was addressed Also: "What if you had a student that refused to roll with black people?" About spit out my drink but dude it HAPPENS. Sometimes spot will permit some very off putting behavior for student retention. Left a school because of it.

This is so true. I've grappled since I was a child, it's never been an intimate thing. I don't know if this is the case for everyone that grew up grappling, but once I was an adult and started doing actual intimate things, I had an issue for a few weeks where I mentally entered "grappling mode" which made said intimate things difficult, until I built up enough experince in the latter to separate the two. I guess, theoretically, if you're already an adult with a long history of intimacy and just starting out with grappling/fighting there might be a small period of time where you accidentally go into the wrong "intimacy" headspace as you grapple, but if you have any substantial amount of grappling experience it just shouldn't happen.

I 1000% agree with you in this video!! Well said buddy 👍

GREAT video & extremely Useful information 💁‍♀️ 👍 Thanks so much! 💖🙏💞

My 16 year old daughter hated rolling with “30 year old nerds with beards” there were quite a few women in the class but she focused on American kickboxing

Very well said!

Basically, all your points are valid from a woman's perspective and from the perspective of making the atmosphere and the sport a "better place", and I agree with them on the level that you SHOULD (but not must) train with all kinds of people. I, personally, kick and punch, and roll with every natural demographic (I would only refuse certain individuals out of hygiene or threat to my health reasons, or people I think are a*holes for whatever reason), BUT I'm a firm believer that everyone has the right to refuse to train with other people without the need for explanation (btw. that, of course, includes you not wanting to train with Zahabi for him not wanting to roll with women). Btw. you could argue whether grappling competition is fighting, but rolling in training certainly is NOT.

Hahaaa :) bingeworthy. Good spoken content! Genuinely interesting to observe his expression of his mma interest. A lot of clever quotes :3

this video has been a long time coming. thanks for crushing this topic in a great way AV!

I generally avoid rolling with women, children and elderly people etc, not cause of anything you mentioned in the video " which is a pretty weird perspective I didn't know anyone saw that way lol" but because of the way my academy culture is. Some of my professors are so against rolling hard in any way with these groups of people that I feel like under their supervision I have to pretty much let anyone who isn't a strong young man do what ever they want. Not saying that its OK to be a mat bully and hurt less capable training partners but I don't like the idea of just letting anyone win, I want someone to know if they pull a move off against me it was legit and not just because I let them.

At first I didn't see it your way But you make alot of valid points

There is no objective, inherent misogyny in what Firas says. Yeah, if a man gets aroused rolling with a woman, it being awkward doesn't make it any less, unfortunately, natural. Close touch between men and women can always be interpreted by the body as a sexual stimulus. It is absolutely the responsibility of a man to be more than a sexual stimuli receiver, and I think it represents a great deal of self reflection for them to realize that you know what? Rolling with women doesn't work for me, I don't want to make them feel awkward or be put in an awkward position. A middle ground I will concede with you and agree on though, if I am not comfortable with rolling with women, I shouldn't be having a mixed class, I could set up a men's only gym or find one for myself, and that you have every right to dictate how your class runs and making sure women feel great there.

There's a big difference between disagreeing with someone and them being wrong. It's not a zero sum game. And what about women who don't want to roll with men? Do we have a double standard there? If all women classes exist (and they do) why not all men? I personally will roll with anyone I trust, but I think calling someone out for their personal choices on what to do with their body is unhelpful.

I think it’s great that there are married men or men in serious relationships that respect those relationships so much that they won’t put it at risk by putting themselves in certain situations with the opposite sex. The fact that there are people that don’t understand it is one of the reasons our society is in such a bad place.

Thank you!

Well since there are women's only classes why would it be wrong if we men dont want to roll with women. Why it is ok in a way and not the other ?

In Islam, touching a woman, who is not your wife or mother or daughter or sister or aunt, is prohibited, with or without their permission. It's to protect the women and respect them, not to discriminate them. Muslima not allowed to touch men too, same with muslim. But still, this is just for muslims. Non-muslims can do whatever they want. And muslims are just minority in BJJ community.

100% correct take here, great work

In judo we are taught that there are no men and women. Only judoka. Yes we may pic more size and skill appropriate partners for the females but we do the same for basically anyone who is below brown belt.

At my old gym the protocol we had when it came to rolling with women was to use nothing but pure technique. You couldn't use any strength, athleticism, or explosive movements.

amazing video

He isn’t wrong on this one

your opinion....that's the take away i got from this. I think you need to not shame someone who is openly admitting that he doesn't roll with women because it becomes improper for him. How many creepy dudes never do that?

When only one side of an equation is required to be tolerant, you end up with inequality. Now think about that FROM BOTH SIDES!

if you shouldnt roll with the gender youre attracted to then by that logic me, a bisexual, couldnt roll with anyone lmao. its only weird and intimate if u make it weird

1) flawed logic. Even in mixed settings men would (hopefully) not use 100% force against women (or men for that matter) in training so it's still not a perfect recreation of a real life scenario. It remains a mere simulation. Women will never truly "feel" what it's like to be attacked by a man who is hellbent on hurting them and is using 100% of his power in a gym setting. Not that it's necessary anyway. You don't need to roll with a 400lb Sumo wrestler in order to respond effectively in the event of such a man attacking you on the street. Just like you don't have to be attacked with a sharp knife in training in order to learn how to deal with the threat of knife attacks. You don't have to be shot at with live ammo in order to learn how to evade gun fire effectively etc etc ..you get the point🤦🏾‍♂️ Training is just that: training. It will never be a 100% replication of reality because there are many variables that cannot be accurately accounted for in a gym..So since training, whether with a male or female, is a mere simulation of real life events, and since even in mixed training men will not be going 100% for obvious reasons, what difference does it really make whether they roll with men or women?

As a Muslim, I can confirm that Islam prohibits us from touching women you are not related to let alone rolling around with em. In fact men are ordered to lower their gaze and not stare at a non mahram (someone who u don’t know)

Firas: I'm too impure roll with women Armchair Violence: not rolling with women is HELLA GAY this is the top tier content I'm here for

I dont roll with women out of self defense, cus my wife would kill me otherwise

8:09 then women-only gyms should be closed too

My thing is what if I don't view it as intimate inherently but at the same time I can't keep my stick soft when I grapple them. I don't want it to happen but maybe I'm a pervert. Should I quit jiu jitsu

Your takes are fair, reasonable, and in good faith, which is a rare combination! Super glad I found your channel.

I 100% agree - glad I found you - I was annoyed with his pow and I didn't quite find the words to explain it - these are the words :-D

I'm more than happy to roll with women, as a smaller guy it's one of the only times I have any chance of winning...

Is it possible to be so good at BJJ that rolling with a group that is categorically weaker/less experienced than you doesn’t feel like fighting? Honest question as I’ve only had one bjj class and am completely ignorant to rolling with intent to submit.

Lmaoo so according to firas logic should I just not train bjj since I’m bi, and no matter who I role with it will be “impure” 😂😂

“If you’re aroused when someone is trying to rip your arm out of the socket…you’re special” friggin’ got me lol

As a guy with a gf who's at college miles away for a few years, I don't roll with women in part because of that. I also don't roll with them unless they are fully grown adults because it's very awkward having some female near my age (17) start giggling during the entire roll (actually happened, was insanely awkward.) It's also not fun when I slam almost every female in my gym as a one stripe white belt. The only time I will roll with a woman is if they need practical self defense training against a 17 year old athletic male.

I think grappling with women is a good way to learn restraint and strength control cause if you dont have anything between 100 percent and 0 percent muscle effort its less useful strength than having more control at lower levels

I think it is intimate but not sexual. Awesome video and great points!

I remember when i had my first mma class and after us there was a bjj class, i wanted to watch and the head coach invited me in. His daughter was rolling and i was impressed by her moves and just said "wow" to which he responded "You're watching too much collegue" at the moment i didn't quite get what he was saying but i realized afterwards that this guy thinks im checking his daughter out when in reality i was legit impressed by her skills and it felt awkward, if i was training bjj i wouldn't have wanted to roll with her the next class. Now i don't know he might have had problem with me sitting and observing for too long cause he wants money and is not very keen on giving stuff for free even if it is just watching, but im 95% sure it was because of his daughter.

It's as simple as "Would you judge a woman for refusing to roll with men?" No ? then you shouldn't judge Firas for refusing to roll with women

What if the women doesn’t want to roll with men? Will we demonize her? Would come off pretty creepy trying to get her to roll with men if she doesn’t want to, right? Idk but I feel it’s a double standard with our culture. I believe people should simply respect each other whether you agree or disagree with something. I get both points but again it seems from my experiences there is a double standard … as long as someone is respectful in expressing their beliefs I don’t feel their should be any harm done. Opinion.

I only started BJJ a few months ago but I don't roll with women because I don't wanna be rubbed and wrapped around them in weird positions, especially when they wear tight thin clothes. It's not the same thing as rolling with men, just like seeing guys naked in a locker room is not the same as if you were in the girls' (if you're straight). I don't mind sparring girls in Muay Thai because it's different. Everyone should do what they want about that issue.

Good stuff👍

So I see a lot of people saying they wouldn't roll with a girl because they're afraid of getting a false accusation. A few years ago, I was at a karate camp and circumstances ended up with me being alone with a kid I've known for years. This kid made a false accusation against me. Police were called, I got kicked out of the camp and my karate school. Kid eventually recanted and the investigation found I done nothing wrong but the damage was done. Now I'm at a bjj school. There's a kids (teens), I make sure I'm never alone with them, but I still roll with them. Many prefer to roll with me because I used to teach karate to kids and teens so I can "go hard" with them without hurting them. Some will even come up to me to ask me questions, which I then remind them that they should probably ask the black belt instructor rather than me, a blue belt who isn't that good. As to females, we have females and I've rolled with all of them. I'm also gay so they aren't attractive to me at all. There are several guys that I think are attractive, some really attractive and when we spar all I can think about is, let's make this day not be the day I die. After class, we'll all just change in the same room since we aren't big enough to have several changing rooms. All I can think about after class while everyone is getting changed and taking off shirts and whatnot is, holy crap I'm tired. If you aren't a sex fiend, you can roll with people that you find attractive without getting aroused because nothing says sexy like someone's sweat landing in your mouth.

100% the reason I want to train with men is so I know my technique will work when a man attacks me. As a previous rugby play I’m not necessarily worried about an attack by a women. Getting snubbed by men in class is frustrating, getting throttle and smashed is also frustrating. Some guys roll way too light and give in which is more appreciated than getting injured by them but not helpful in learning if I’ve mastered the technique. Almost none of the men I roll with ask me to roll. I almost always have to approach them. And as a white belt if I even get close to submitting a dude with a higher belt and a beta ego they’ll tried to purposefully injury me. Vs the women’s only class I was beating the blue belt, their lack of press and overall skill was disappointing. Don’t get me wrong smaller purple and blue belt women have kicked my ass on numerous occasions. So based on All the above and more it’s challenging getting ladies and keeping them in this sport. Also because there are so few women in this sport we don’t have competitors, at my last competition I had 1 competitor vs my male equivalent classmates got 7, 2 other tournaments I signed up for I had no competitors but my male classmates had 3-10. So the guys get more training partners and more competition experience than any female in the sport. I will say though most of the higher belt guys in the class are good dudes and good training partners. Luckily only a few sour apples. The down side for the guys not training with women is not learning how to grapple a smaller opponent safely, what if your at a party and a small women get bilingual and irate. Are you going to cave her skull in and go to jail, or safely control her until she calms down?! One of my males training partners recently complained to me about getting smashed by a guy 2x his size and I told him that how I feel half of every class.

When I was in karate one of the students refused to spar with the girls so they made him go round after round with the black and brown belts on sparring days and they didnt go easy on him, he quit about a month later

Another problem that relates to this is people who take rolling/live training too personally.

Not my problem. I rather a woman call me sexist than call me a creepy groping rapist. That's why there are coaches. When it's uneven someone is gonna end up with a coach or teacher. That falls on those mens shoulders. This is why I don't coach and would never be one. She can talk to her teachers and coaches and ask them if they have a women's only class or if they have any other female students and ask which days they come to train. She can then meet this woman on that day; if they can't go to the gym on the same day. They can meet outside of the gym like us guys and roll with each other. Regardless of why I choose not to roll with women it's my choice and it's my body. I don't understand why we must be penalized for protecting ourselves and our reputation. Again I rather a woman call me sexist than call me a creepy groping rapist 🤷🏽‍♂️ IJS

If a woman says "I don't wanna roll with men", we have no problem. But if a man says it, He'S In ThE WrOnG He ShoUld RolL WitH WoMeN!1!1!!

you have your morals, we have ours.

I'm scared of rolling with women because I don't want a false accusation.

I’m not here to yuck anyone’s yum, but violence isn’t flirting, nor is it foreplay….Simulated or not. Sexualized violence has no place in a class room (which is what a dojo or combat sports gym is) and if I had a student or instructor that worked for me that was getting aroused by the training or feared the temptation of getting aroused, then they have issues that need to be addressed elsewhere by more qualified people not at my dojo.

I do roll with women and spar in kickboxing and mma, I definitely don’t find it intimate but it definitely feels weird. But I think other the stigma of it all is the cause, I think both people go into thinking “I know it’s not sexual, but do they ? Are they going to misinterpret my actions” I think a lot of men don’t want to confront that inner awkwardness and internal dialogue so they just avoid it.

Ok what if i'm ok with it but my wife isn't? Should I get divorced or give up training?

Interesting that you make a point of grappling being unsexy. I used to train at a queer wrestling club. Some of the other guys mentioned that a lot of people come and go when they realise it's not a place to hook up.

Yeah bro you’re right

Given the me too movement and his religion, I support his decision. I would roll with women, but I understand why a man wouldn’t and support it. Some things are far more important than BJJ.

"Fighting isn't intimate." I swear more people need to get this. Shows and movies have sexualized fighting as flirting and while I get the idea, anyone who really trains knows that the amount of focus and strain it takes to practice grappling makes the whole thing as unsexual as you can get.

"If you're aroused while someone is trying to rip your arm out of its socket... you're special." YES I AM, MR.VIOLENCE. YES I AM 😩😩 I've been meaning to get into BJJ for a while now, and I'll be getting into it soon... Grappling with women sounds terrifying to me. I was raised in a way that taught me that any physical contact with women was inappropriate. I'm sure that once I get into it, the compartimilisation of rolling would minimise it. But in case it doesn't, what should I do to deal with it? You didn't really leave a good answer for that in the video. Besides that, it was well argumented and supplemented with good anecdotes.

My biggest concern when rolling with women is not to hurt them. The difference in strength is profound. Just need to remember to dial it down a lot. It seems like the younger kids 16+ are the most problematic, they tend to be very competitive and less aware about the risk of injury.

I think it makes sense for someone of his celebrity

I stopped rolling with women because the child support is starting to get expensive.

This video is great. Unfortunately I spent a lot of it looking at your shirt and thinking, "haha p p"

I love it! Great job on your argument. As a woman I have come up on this a couple of times in various places and it is frustrating. How am I supposed to get better if they will not train with me. It's so not fair. And ya, I have never once worried about a woman attacking me.

If he doesn’t want to roll with women, that’s his choice. More for me

Absolutely 100% agree. Don't have any problem rolling with women and I've never had any issues with women rolling with me. I do respect female students if they decide to not roll with me. I have never had a female say they do not want to roll with me but if they said no it would not bother me. Especially if they don't know me

Some men will get aroused when grappling with women, especially if there is a big difference in their abilities and it's basically "easy" for them. It's automatic, not something that you can switch off. You can't control your emotions and thoughts, you only can regulate emotions and control your behaviour. Getting aroused doesn't mean doing anything sexual to the other person. But it can mean feeling bad about yourself or for your partner, that you get into situations when you get aroused by other people, that you're practically hugging with. And for the sake of the slippery slope argument of excluding all women, because some men don't want to grapple with them, you literally propose excluding all men that have that problem. You call that egalitarian, but for me, you're completely excluding a group of people for the sake of the potential risk of excluding another. I only mentioned the part about men not wanting to grapple with women, but the other side exists too, women who for certain reasons don't want to grapple with men. You, in the "egalitarian" thinking, propose to exclude all of them for the sake of, again the slippery slope argument.

You make a lot of good points

Hey thanks so much for the mention! I agree with everything you said in your video. It’s disappointing when people hyper-sexualize choking your training partners out. It’s pathetic.

When you are rolling with a girl and she doesn't tap out when she should and you don't know if she's really stubborn or getting off... Anyway, you don't have the whole day.

In jiujitsu or any combat sport, there is NO implied consent to training with anyone. You must specifically consent to drill/roll with each training partner and you are completely in the right to refuse training with someone for any reason you see fit.

Training sure very reasonable however there are separate divisions for men and women in sports for a very good reason