“The Mary Sue Class Vessel [...]“ :D

plot holes plot holes everywhere but startrek has more plot holes than the galaxy has black holes

"The Mary-Sue class vessel..." I was rolling with laughter at this line.

I really love the design of their stingray ship. The biggest problem is that it needed more phaser banks and maybe a few torpedo bays. The keldon class is also beautiful.

Miles O'Brien disliked this video

Two words: Ferengi salesmen.

I always hated that missile designation of "tactical". Tactical helps you win key battles. Strategic helps you win the war. Ie, A tactical missile will sink a ship. A strategic missile will destroy a city. So any "missile" that can take out a moon is certainly NOT tactical, rather strategic.

I'm actually enjoying your 1K episode long breakdown of "The Drumhead."

That moment when the Cardassians of Star Trek are better looking and more relevant than the Cardassians of the real world. (I know its Kardashians so sue me lol)

To be fair, the V2 rocket or BF 262 were the most advanced techs of their time... Nazis still lost the war. So maybe the Dreadnoght Missle is some kind of wonderweapon where the Cardis just waste their best techs and ressources (would match with the devastating losses during the klingon invasion)

Meet the Italians of star trek. WW2 not WW1.

It's a shame that the Cardassians were always hinted at being this semi-big baddy in TNG, but were ultimately far weaker than the Federation in all respects. They were completely outclassed in their first appearances, and while they slowly got better, nothing ever really came of it (though I guess that was due to TNG's peaceful proclivities). It's great that they were expanded upon in DS9. In the end, they were just like the Klingons, always a step below and behind the Federation. The only difference is that the Klingons seem to have the resources to at least make up for their lack in tech with numbers. I think that's why the Cardassians got their asses handed to them by the Klingons. On yeah, that Mary Sue Missile-Ship-Thing was just incredibly stupid. It made absolutely no sense. But then again, neither did abandoning a planet and leaving a space station pretty much intact. Thank the gods/prophets/whatever for O'Brien. Too bad he was married. I think he and that Cardy Engineer would have made quite a cute couple. On a side note - instead of Discovery, I would have loved to have seen a series dedicated to the first Border Wars. With the Federation seemingly more advanced than the Cardassians, I'd have loved to have seen how they had such a hard time and were so desperate to keep a peace with them, even at the cost of their own citizens.

mary sue class LMAO.

I like the shocked face of the Intrepid class ship at 5:14 as Lore makes his points.

Waiting for your 61 page thesis on Darmok, as well as the accompanying video series going into detail into the events that shaped the Tamarian language. But seriously, when are you doing your multivideo breakdown on Darmok? Just wanna hear you talk about Shaka, when the walls fell without cracking up, because I wanna crack up.

I don’t think their military tech improved during the war, I think the writers just ignored how weak they had been before in order to make the battles more dramatic.

I'd like to express my thanks.

My favorite alien 'Baddies' from the time I was a kid has been the Romulans. I always though they were sneaky bastards, then the Cardassians came along and WHOE BOY the Romulans suddenly looked like Saints! Considering the Cardies were created because the Ferrengi wern't proving to be a threat for the viewers, I think they are alright. Brutal jerks but alright. I still prefer my Rommies though and those gigantic De'Derix class warships that have almost no firepower for their size and can't outrun a broken down Excelsior ;-)

We'll call that cardassian missile the SS Michael Burnham

every word he mispronounces makes me twitch. 3:57 Denabi class shuttle?? Are you sure it's not Danube, like the river?

OMG that bit about the missile was so good! You're completely right about that. I almost forgot it existed. Thanks for that.

Surprised the Galors didn't have turrets mounted. They had good hull design to house at least 4 turrets.

No seriously I always loved the design of the Galor and Keldon class vessels

I think the missile matches what the Obsidian Order did with the warships they built. In both cases the craft were faster, and stronger than the Cardassian military. It also seemed weird that even Odo considered the Order to be the best when Cardassian tech was so obsolete until it is considered that the Order did not share with the military. It seemed that they simply spoon fed things to the military, but held back to keep their edge and power. It does make sense they would do that to an extent since knowledge kept them on par with the military in controlling the government. All they had to do was cooperate enough to help the nation survive.

Anyone ever notice that the Keldon class is basically a reskinned kit bash of a Vor cha in reverse without nacelles?

I always kind of liked Spoonhead ships for some reason.

the pyramidal structures are weapon hardpoints so for the Galor that's - 12 phaser/disruptor hard points - 1 heavy disruptor - (possible) fore and aft photon torpedo launchers for the Keldon variant, when looking at pictures i counted - 16 phaser/disruptor hardpoints (extra two on the bottom of the main hull, below the shuttle bay and one on each of the tail extensions) possibly more on main hull extension - 1 foreward heavy disruptor and possibly, one dorsal disruptor (extended main hull has what looks like a large weapon of sorts) -(again, possible) fore and aft photon torpedo launchers the extra pod on the top if i remember correctly, augments the firepower/defenses of the ships, like a stronger shield/structural integrity field or is quite possibly space for more weapons and power generator to boost the level of firepower. anyways, awesome episode

ahh the spoon head union an its plot powered fleet

Keep up the good work! I love watching the videos! Good job!

That freaking missile. Decent episode, but canon Destroyer, as you said. Another great episode, Lore Reloaded!

In fairness, I would not say the Galors in Sacrifice of Angels stood up to Galaxy-class firepower very well at all. But on the other hand, the Prakesh took one hell of a beating in WotW...so much so I would say Galors are sturdier than most Federation counterparts. Also, those little whitish pyramids all over the ship are disruptor emitters. They provide outstanding coverage, and the main weapon emitter on the front seemed to pack a real wallop. (Yes, their most impressive performance was during the Dominion War, but a: I see no evidence the Dominion upgraded Cardie ship weapons; and b, one of the Keldons the Defiant fought was rocking the little ship pretty hard before Riker let loose with the quantum torpedoes.) My take is that most Cardie ships have so-so to weak shields, good firepower (roughly on par with a typical Excelsior, maybe), very strong hulls and are relatively easy to manufacture, but the resource poor Union can only produce so many without massive expansion. THAT is what the Dominion promised them, and why Dukat sold his soul to the devil.

Finally, an upload which isn’t about drumhead. I like this analysis videos about each races military, economy and social backgrounds.

Cardassians are one of those Star Trek races that make sense. They're complex and intelligent people and the writers didn't make them archtypes of one specific variety of humanity like they've done with other major races like Klingons, Ferengi and Vulcans for example.

Awesome video as always sir.

"I see nothing wrong, this is a lovely ship of death. Take care then, bye bye now."

It’s awesome to finally getttign to now this faction

Danube - dan-yube

I'm loving the Breakdown.

More likely the Miranda's we see being destroyed by Galors in the Dominion War had already taken multiple hits off screen. There's a lot of action in DS9's fleet battles that we don't see, so I'm not really believing they are much of a threat. They also aren't likely any tougher either, yes in Sacrifice of Angels we see one take a few hits from a Galaxy.....for a couple of seconds. The first hit is clearly stopped, but in the second and third hits you can see chunks being blasted off the hull, and it starts listing heavily.

Thank you for the end of this video Lore. Very true words

Considering the Federation had a long war against the Cardasians, I would believe that a vessel that was more advanced than the ones in the border wars, I would think they can destroy Miranda’s and probably even Being slightly bellow Excelsior’s

I really prefer, “Life is just a story. Make yours a good one.” It had heart, felt it in my Soul. Your inflections help so much. Just my take. Great episode.

It's Superior to the Miranda class . That's like boasting you can beat an Oberth .

Danube - dan-yoob :D Couldn't resist :D

To be fair the cardasins where a resorce starved faction. So maybe they could only afford to build one....?

"... and I'm sure I'm saying that wrong." -Me, every time I try to say something in Klingon.

Plot armour of that cardassian torpedo /tactical missile was awesome... Mini borg cube god ship...

it is my opinion that the keldon class ship is a special class designed and fielded by the obsidian order. we only ever see it in maybe three episodes, suggesting that its not a standard design.

Haha. Loved the irate rant on the super torpedo. So true, though. Maybe if Voyager still had the super drone made from the mobile emitter, that 29th century technology could have stopped it.

that missile was the shittiest super weapon in Star Trek Armada 2. Honestly, the phoenix had more utility!

I wouldn't say that Gallors took fire any better in the dominion war. Those Galaxies are clearly shredding them in a single pass.

I figured it out ...Cardassians pirate... everything.

I think the only semi-reasonable explanation for the ATR-4107 is it being a one of a kind highly advanced (probably Obsidian Order) prototype. If you look at experimental aircraft they often have highly advanced systems deemed too complex or costly for mass production, that being said it is OPAF.

Just a note on the speed of the missile... We today build missiles that are much, much faster than any aircraft or naval vessel. Because they are smaller, strapping a bigger engine to them just works.

I always viewed that missile as a one-off. Without the need for crew or any significant quarters, life support, medical areas or anything else it's just all engine and explosives. It's like taking a junkyard v-8 engine and throwing it in a go-cart. There's a huge reduction in size and mass the engines don't have to move. Not to mention you don't exactly need the engines to run reliably for years, just weeks, so you can over tax them without worry.

I'd say Cardassian technology focussed more on biotech than anything else, from Obsidian Order agents transforming Major Kira to the sleeper soldiers on that abandoned space station. That said, when you play ST:BOTF, you quickly learn to appreciate the Obsidian order. There was starvation on Cardassia prime so focussing on biotech made sense. As for the ships, in that game Cardassian shields were less advanced but they had better armor.playing. Also, their ships' phaser turrets were best used in.group attacks and could fire from any angle. They also seemed to be pretty adept at preparing traps, like the time when DS9's computer detected a rebellion in the ore processing facility. Their planetary weapons platforms during their collusion with the dominion, but clearly Cardassian in origin, also proved quite effective... Last but not least, the Cardassians were amidst transforming their society, transfering power to civilian authorities and demilitarizing when they suddenly found themselves.attacked by Llingons instigated by the infiltrated Founders. They weten't exactly in great shape at the time. It may very well be that their tech was lagging behind in more than one area by then. Cardassians not being able to decypher Federation transponder codes is a bit strange though, given the Obsidian Order's reputation. s just saying... ;)

I think the Kevlin was probably a mix of development by the Romulans and the Cardassians since the Order was building them for their attack on the Founders. After the Order fell in that attack, the technology was probably ported to the rest of the fleet then another boost came just prior to the Dominion War with the Dominion's help. As for the missile it actually does make a bit of since depending on when it was developed and launched. It could have been a combination of Romulan and Cardassian tech, maybe even made with stolen Federation tech in general. Basically it could have been a modified version of an existing model that was probably ether a prototype or hadn't yet been forward deployed. If Belana was able to get this missile from this facility, its likely they destroyed the facility and the only access to that tech the Cardassians had.

Yet in Star Trek Conquest, they are the hardest opponent early game. (If you play Federation.)

There are still two odd things about Cardassian Ships. First, a lot of people are miffed that the Galor doesnt have a obvious deflector. I actually disagree, they have a big shiny thing. That big shiny thing fires disruptor beams a lot of the time, but then again the Defiant was jury-rigged to fire a phaser from its deflector, so perhaps the Cardassian deflector is just dual purpose like that. Its not like deflectors arent designed already to fire high energy beams and stuff. Second, the Keldon is actually rarely or even not at all seen later on. There are imo two theories about that. First, the Keldon, while having superior performance, it was also substantially more expensive than a Galor, making it less cost effective, meaning that only a limited number was built, and, as depicted when Thomas Riker stole the Defiant, were mostly handed out to the Obsidian Order, or possibly other higher end personell rather than regular troops. The other theory is that after the Cardassians got their asses handed to them in their war against the Klingons, they were low on numbers, simply needing to rebuild their fleets with ANY ship that at least has the capacity to simply GO somewhere and do some basic patrol or policing duty, meaning that the more advanced Keldon would be phased out so more Galor class ships could be built instead. Probably for much the same reason the Hideki popped up around the same time, being a small vessel, capable of doing the aforementioned patrol and policing duties.

Dreadnaught is definitely inconsistent, but there is one thing that might start to make at least some of it make sense. Remember in Journney to Babel when the Enterprise has a lot of trouble dealing with an Orion ship because the ship was built for suicide mission and therefore could use all of its power on an attack? The same thing would be true for Dreadnaught

You seem to be under the false assumption that trek writer ever really cared about continuity

I honestly always liked the design of Cardassian ships. I like the sound of their weapons. It's one of those ships for me like the D'Kora, where it's widely varied in terms of capabilities, but I love the hull designs. It looks alien compared to the familiar Federation design aesthetic, but don't look completely impractical or silly IMO.

That Mary Sue Torpedo, could be the result of Obsidian Order Spying and tech thieft (Torpedoes from Starfleet, Disruptors from Romulans, and other tech from various sources)? Also the resistance of the "ship" to Voyager's weapons again could be the Obsidian Order. Why wouldn't these Technologies be intergrated into Frontline vessel? Well The Obsidian Order probably didn't have time or incentive to 'give' these game changing pieces of tech to the Cardassian Navy. The Torpedoe was possibly a test bed to see how everything worked(to their dismay it would have seemed to have failed as there was no moon shattering Kaboom out in the demilitarized zone). When nothing was heard from it, it was written off as an expensive flop and the tech seen as more trouble than it's worth to intergrated into mainline units. Or The Obsidian Order just sat on the tech till their ill fated joint attack with The Romulan Tai'shiar on the Founder Homeworld(after which there wasn't an Obsidian Order left).

That's what's up bro thank u ,u bad ass good video

Personally I've always felt that the Cardassians might be more technologically advanced than you give them credit for. The vessel destroyed by an unshielded nebula class is never bpositively identified as a galor class so its possibly an older model. Also I suspect that Cardassians technology is limited by the resources they have available. Perhaps they for example know how to build warp cores capable of warp 9.5+ but do not have access to highenouglh quality dilithium crystals to stabalise the reaction. Im not saying that is the case merely I suspect it may be the case and lthat it may explain the uevan assessment of Cardassians power throughout star trek.

Thank you for making a video confirming what I think.

Loved it . (You) at least I'm not breaking down a video 60 times) f beans you make what ever videos your feel like doing. You just keep on trucken :)

The self-guided missile sounds a bit like a Star Trek version of Project Pluto, a nuclear-powered cruise missile/bomber designed in the late 1950's. Now, when I say it was a bomber, don't get it confused with the Convair NB-36. That was intended to be a manned bomber with shielding to keep the crew safe. That project was abandoned when they found just how difficult it is to make radiation shielding light enough for manned aircraft, and just how expensive it would be to fit out bomber bases and runways with enough shielding to work near them on the ground. By comparison, multi-billion-dollar ICBMs were considered a bargain. Project Pluto was a different beast altogether: it was a self-guided cruise missile that dropped bombs along the way. If it worked as designed, this monster would fly at supersonic speeds across Russia, periodically dropping its cargo of atom bombs over pre-selected sites, and when it ran out of bombs, would continue to fly racetrack patterns over the USSR at low altitude, potentially for _decades_ while the nuclear fuel gradually decayed. If the sonic booms from this superweapon didn't flatten the building you were in, then the hard radiation from the nuclear ramjet would get you instead. Given how long this weapon could potentially run, it would make one hell of a "fuck you" if the USSR ever invaded. They never completed the project, but they did (successfully) test the nuclear ramjet engine in the early 60's, probably right before the Pentagon fired the supervillain they'd apparently brought in to consult on the project.

I always looked at the Cardassians as Star Treks 1991 Iraq... like you said a regional power.

Love the Dreadnought review🤣

Lore Reloaded 75.6K subscribers The Cardassian Galor class is still a very cool ship!

I would say that the gator class ships were able to match up with galaxy class ships before the war. Not saying they would be winners but they could do damage. The Keldon class also had advanced tech and cloaking. The dreadnought was a learning system like the M5 in TOS so creating or adapting was what is was made for. Those Missiles we’re made to attack targets or emplacements and we’re gearing according.

0:18 0:50 like those picture thanks lore

. I like the cardassian ship Designs the most in Star Trek. Its sad we didnt see more of them.

The cargo transport design was shared with the Klingons.

The ATR 4017 was possibly a prototype weapon much like the Defiant, however, when it disappeared in the Badlands the Cardassians likely scrapped the program and went back to the drawing board. While you point out some notable inconsistencies I can believe the Cardassians designed something like this, but didn't want to risk building any ships with such advanced engines and weapons out of fear it would explode which would reflect badly on them or break down and be captured by their enemies which is what actually happened with this weapon.

Honestly even the upgraded Dominion War Cardassian ships were mostly good at doing one thing: Drawing fire for the actually effective Dominion r ships.

im thinking a dominion war variant galaxy class could absolutely paste any cardassian combat starship during the war

Galor had 3 phaser emitters which are known as cardassian compressors, one under its elevated bridge and other two on its "bat" wings covering sides. Did not had rear facing emitter or rear torpedo launcher, unlike Keldon so being attacked from rear was its Achilles' heel. Cardassians are technologically inferior to Federation so power of those emitters is probably something more in line to some older Fed ship designs, like something on Miranda power lvl. When compared to Galaxy class, Galaxy had in total like 8 phaser emitters, four starboard and four port side and quadruple frontal and double rear torpedo launcher, not to mention stronger shields. For a fair fight 3 galors would need to take on one galaxy at same time and one galor would still end up obliterated. So group of four Galors would consist a standard patrol size to ensure safety and survival of its crews. Now all this is just a standard routine, however Cardassians are known to be devious and could employ all sort of dirty tricks to change scales in combat, using biological or nonconventional weapons for example.

Dreadnought was designed to analyse possible threats and adapt it's defenses accordingly. There is even a line in the episode, I believe, that notes Dreadnought must have scanned voyagers torpedoes and modulated it's shields before the torpedoes hit. Makes sense to me. Cardassian technology was pretty good when Dreadnought was built. They were not as backwards as you made them out to be. There was a reason they dominated their entire region of space in fairly short order. There is in fact an argument to be made that, were they not short of resources on their homeworld and had they not spent so long starving and scrounging for food that they might have been more than just a regional power by the time they came into contact with the Federation.

Great video! However, that's not how you say Danube. I don't mean to be a stickler, but it just really stuck out for me.

Lore, I love when you get snarky with plot holes. ❤

Yay Cardassians! Great breakdown. They were always a really unique looking iconic design. But also....Hahahaha was your opening a dig at my Drumhead criticism? Awww

I like to think the tactical missile is some sort of one off, or stolen ship or something, like, the Cardassians didn't make it on their own, they had to have some kind of help or maybe it was some weird obsidian order thing, tbh I could even see it being some sort of accidental advancement where they didn't even know what they had, it's stated in the episode "Leave it to the cardassians to build the most sophisticated weapon and give it a primitive detonator" It makes me inclined to believe that perhaps they bought the ship from the Ferengi or someone as a normal ship, then retrofitted it to be a missile. Obviously it's bad writing, but I need to justify it somehow. . . Maybe the Romulans helped? Idk man, the inconsistencies, I can't take it!

1:44 I'm pretty sure EVERY ship in TNG era was superior to the maranda class.

To quote spacedock "the cannon is fucked and it's been fucked from the start"

I enjoyed the missile part.

*OMFG I LOVE THE ENDING CREDITS AMAZING* Ps that sounds shade lol 😂 but no. In response to the weird missile, that’s just one design built to install extensive refits to an entire fleet is a long process that takes years and very resource heavy Maybe they where installing these upgrades but again it was taking time. That’s how I always saw it anyway The bloody cardies used spacial wave disruptors where ever they are????

I am in total agreement the Delta Flyer technology made no sense but its not uncommon for the writers especially in Voyager to take alot of liberties in technology in order to advance their plot. But at least they kept with the formula that made Star Trek popular and didnt make an abomination that is only Star Trek in name.

GG i like what said on 5:30 to 5:58

Great breakdown ... never realized how weak the Cardassians really were. May be the cause for much of Deep Space Nine their main opponents were Danube class runabouts.

When will you continue the Warhammer 40k ship breakdowns?

I always thought it was funny that the Cardassian ship looked like the Cardassian sigil.

Smart ass I love it at the beginning of the video haha

Cardasians only exist to give O'Brien PTSD. A condition that no federation doctor can be bothered to cure.

Guessing for the missile sue, one of the Voyager writers had watched "Dark Star" over the weekend and was like "hey that was pretty cool let's just do that."

We know that Cardassia was located in a resource-poor area of space, so I'd argue it's less that the Dominion upgraded Cardassian tech overall, and more that their superior resource extraction and production technologies allowed Cardassian tech to achieve its full potential.

I can understand S31 having better tech than the Feds. The Obsidian Order may likewise have access to advanced tech, like the super torp, that they didn't share with Cardassian forces.

The Cardasians used ALL of their plotanium to produce that missle. All of it.

Great video, just curious do you speed up the audio commentary? Because my voice videos sound about the same speed as Pakleds.