Vulcans are not explorers in the same way that Starfleet is not a military

Okay lets think about this logically. Volcans are extremely strong, if one of them is sick they may lose control of their emotions(as seen in all series) so being able to strap them down might come in handy for those really strong illogical ones

I never saw enough of the Vulcan ships in "Enterprise" but loved their design. The cylindrical warp drive just makes more sense: in order to create a stable warp bubble around the ship, having nacelles that could flex and move, like Star Fleet does, would make it far more difficult for the two nacelles warp fields to interact with each other. One solid ring would keep the warp coils and other components in aliment so much better. Having a warp drive that could fold flat into the hull of a warship for its own protections would also be awesome. Best of all, this ring-style warp drive looks so much like the proposed NASA /AsteronX Alcubierre-White Warp Drive ship that it makes me tingle!

Vulcans: "You guys should just stay on Earth for now." Humans: "But we want to grow up to be explorers, just like you-" Vulcans: "Explorers!? pfft! Don't be silly! We do no such thing..." *pokerface* Humans: "..." Vulcans: "Don't make me delay your warp-drive tests by another decade!"

"LAUNCH FIGHTERS! We shall survey them!"

so where do i put my name down for a warp powered canoe they sound like a whole lot of fun

They called them "Survey Ships" if by "survey" you mean "war". Because they're surveying the Andorians they're about to attack.

"Canoes I guess" ᵒᵇᵉʳᵗʰ oberth OBERTH -- MY GOD HE'S RIGHT

It makes sense Vulcan ships would change little- there is no logic in changing a proven design. Only emotional species would care about how the ship looks.

Re: designing a ship with a thousand year old design philosophy: being made of wood, *would* explain the Oberth classes ability to go up in flames so easily.

Gelato machines are most logical and important........

To the Vulcans, it would be logical to continue to use a proven design instead of something new. Or, as we say..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

By the time Vulcans encountered earth they had quite a bit of territory, I assume they mean exploring new territory and the survey ships are used to examine stuff inside their territory that they didn't bother with yet.

I think the implication of the 3 ringed ship is supposed to be that even as part of the Federation, the Vulcans would continue to design and build ships based on their existing approach to warp technology. That we don't see any in the 23rd or 24th centuries would have to be put down to coincidence, since we see very few ships of any design crewed primarily by Vulcans in the first place.

Pretty sure humans also used ancient designs when designing new ships too. I mean, the design for the Oberth was taken from the ancient terran design for TNT. And that ubiquitous saucer design? 50's flying saucers, which means Tom Parris is a time traveler and influenced every starfleet engineer. Great Tom, thanks for not giving us more Lightning Cannons!

I always thought this Vulcan ship on Daniels' temporal computer to be contemporary to the Enterprise, since the computer was basically a Wikipedia database from the future with information on everything that came before...

remember they were spying on andorians when they said that they were not, so... "they are not explorers" :D

Sith Infiltrator! Bwuhahaha! Maybe a stretch of the imagination, but I daresay that Vulcan ship designs and space-faring doctrines were both opposing and complimentary to their cousins, the Romulans. I think Vulcans did indeed dislike exploration and warfare. But having ships to fill both roles was necessary. After all, knowledge is power. And power is necessary for survival. Yet the Vulcans still possess traces of their barbaric ancestry. The predatory, sleek and imposing ship designs and cold logic made them brutal enemies if provoked. By and large, I like the Vulcan ship designs and aesthetics.

Vulcans lie a lot. And I *love* it. They have the entire galaxy wrapped around their fingers in believing 'vulcans do not lie'. It's genuinely beautiful.

So let's all join up in an inter species alliance and base all our future ship designs on those of the most primitive, least technologically advanced race in the union. Or did humans with their irrational emotional approach to everything somehow develop the most efficient paradigm for long term upgradeability ?

And another thing...KZfaq needs to get this man free gelato. For life. That way he'll keep breaking things like this down for us. Keep up the good work, Lore Reloaded*. And thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.

4:30 for a Vulcan ship, it sure looks angry :O

Ugh! I'll bet if Lore Reloaded were tossed in a padded room for the rest of his life and he could only have one piece of technology... it'd be a gelato machine. He's obsessed with them. Why not just make a ship that functions solely as a gelato machine? Or a ship made of gelato?

Ah yes, the ships with holes😅 I guess that's what the romulans copied

Does the Suurok Class and D'kyr Class always remind anyone else of the ships from the Covenant in Halo or is it just me?

To quite a long time passed away relative of mine..... "man, i don't even have an opinion..." As for the designs them selves, they are quite unique and lovely (to my eyes), on top of being the only warp capable ship which has a nacelle configuration that somewhat resembles the Alcubierre drive.

Want to hurt a Vulcan's brain for lying? tell them this - I am a Vulcan, and Vulcans lie.

6:58 "Ultimately, I find the Vulcan ships to be... intriguing." Are you sure that you don't find them... fascinating?

You can't deny that the Vulcan ships do look cool. Like you know not to mess with them

Logic dictates that all but one patient in a ship-wide medical emergency must be treated in a standing position. The pretty ones get to sit down, but must be strapped tightly for their own safety.

Also what Vulcan had become compared to what it used to be are two very different things. I’ve watched the series a lot and it’s quite easy to see what it was becoming compared to what it did in the end.

they don't like to explore they like to survey

Survey ships or "Survey" ships? "this is not an invasion, we are... surveying... yes..."

I love your sense of humor you approach these discussions with! the first time I saw a Vulcan ship in ST: Enterprise, the warp drive nacelles reminded me of ONE of the designs producers were looking at for the design of the Enterprise TOS, before they settled on what is now the Constitution Class.

So you're overly snarky and more than a little hyperbolic in some of your criticisms, but I finally subbed today because you know your stuff, your presentation is on point, you've got a great sense of humor and honestly...I love the "Make yours a good one" outro. Keep up the good work Lore Master =]

The canoe comment was especially funny because we DO still make Canoes based on the same design, but now made of plastics, perhaps with some improvements to stabilization and a place to hold your soda. We also still make sailboats (even though we have the motor). An old design is not necessarily a bad one, especially if it serves a purpose.

Perhaps it is a matter of perspective and scale. Earth, in just 2 warp-5 capable NX-class starships has been further from their home world than have Vulcan ships in just a few years. The space the Vulcans have explored has been rather extensively catalogued with the caveat that they only recorded points of interest; the charts accessible to Enterprise were either intentionally incomplete or the Vulcans did not record everything they discovered. Given that Vulcan has been warp-capable for 10 centuries at a minimum since this is roughly the date that proto-Romulans left Vulcan to found the Star Empire home world of Romulus some 300 light years away. it would seem that Vulcans in the time frame of 1,000 years up to the dates of Enterprise could have explored all of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and perhaps even well into the Gamma and Delta quadrants. In that sense they are not explorers. but, everything within roughly ~200 light years has been explored extensively.

Chairs with restraints? I guess those would come in handy for forcibly treating pon farr jitters.

I wonder if it might be a semantics type thing. Humans are explorers in that we have to know what is over that next hill. We saw Archer showing a sense of wonder at what Vulcans saw as commonplace. In short: Vulcans were more suveyors, cataloging and classifying things, while humans were explorers, always looking for the next new experience.

Hmm, so how did humans, being human, not just copy Vulcan designs ? Either a bit of industrial espionage or just look closely for inspiration and base your designs off what you know already works (Just paint it a different colour) instead of reinventing the wheel. Especially in the mirror universe where they had a complete Vulcan survey ship to take apart and reverse engineer, but somehow still ended up with a saucer and two nacelles layout, that was at least a lot tougher than Vulcan ships of the same era. But then apparently evolved human sensibilities (or Vulcan cultural engineering, perhaps to prevent this very thing) has apparently rendered humans unable to reverse engineer ships, such as captured Suliban cell ships. Or even to hold onto captured ships when the enemy crew is still alive, such as Ferengi pirate ships. This philosophy continues on into Federation culture till even in the 24th century, with a Nyrian biosphere ship that tried to steal Voyager by beaming them to a sealed habitat with a Translocator with a ten light year range through shields. When they capture the Nyrian ship, after returning all the prisoners, they don't rip it apart for tech and install their transporters - it's like reliable transwarp beaming with shield penetration that can do large scale transports at closer range, very very useful. "The crew of the attacking ship have just been translocated to our brig captain". But no, just leave the ship as is. Damn Vulcans neutered humanity.

It’s interesting that the Vulcans at this point were so powerful even the Klingons weren’t interested in a direct open war at the time. Perhaps the borders of their empire weren’t so nearby for it to be pressing but the power of the Vulcan Fleet was certainly a deterrent.

I don't remember them saying that Vulcans don't explore. What they talked about was how Vulcans don't like to explore, if they don't have to. For instance, they say no point in exploring a nebula that they already knew about, and knew everything about it. Whereas humans wanted to physically be there. They basically liked using sensors. And their ships reflect that by having good sensors.

6:45 That's a pretty awesome looking ship though and I bet it's huge. I'd love a die cast replica of that one.

During the Vulcan story arc in ENT season 4, I'm pretty sure one of the sirenites (?) tells Archer that many thing he was told about Vulcans aren't true, and that the High Command used to be in charge of space exploration. I suppose that by the time the Vulcan government was taken over by the Romulans, Vulcan had explored a significant area around their homeworld, and then just continued surveying that area

FYI, you should check out U.S.S. Midway, if you're ever around the San Diego area. That ship had a crew of 1200-1500 iirc, and the sick bay has only about a dozen beds in it. Sick bay on a naval vessel is usually only for emergencies, and the rule for sick people is to stay in their own bunks, rather than making everyone else in sick bay sick.

Every time I see a Suurok-class, I can't help but think of the Vulcan ship from Star Trek Legacy that you spend over 200 years chasing down, from Captain Archer's command of the NX-01 to just after the events of Nemesis with the Enterprise-E and Voyager team up.

According to STO, the small support ship which comes with the D'kyr class is called a Tal'kyr class support craft, it's warp capable and seems the nacelle/s are the same as the D'kyr, the ring in the middle of the hull there.

The older vulcan ships are so interesting and different with the hoop shaped warp nacelles. It gives the effect of an engine cowling from the side

If I remember this correctly, Vulcans did explore, but they didn't just follow their noses, like humans. The rings were far more efficient warp engines than nacelles, but they prevented the ships from changing course while at warp. That's why most species use nacelles, trading efficiency for flexibility. It was fine for the Vulcans though, as all their exploratory trips would be carefully and elaborately planned, and they would rarely deviate from these plans.

Keep in mind that any of our seafaring ships are based on a hollowed out log. ;) They just became technologically advanced hollowed out logs... and made of metal alloys rather than wood. ;)

It is, of course, logical to claim not to be an explorer and only scientists. The two, after all, are not linked in any way, and to think they are is a uniquely human idea.

T'pol would just say "Vulcans never/don't..." just as excuses or to spite her human peers. In a similar manner in Worf.

There's always a Vulcan around when you need one!

Humans / Starfleet's version of exploring : " Hey, let's go there and there and there and there and there , because ... why not ?!? " Vulcan version of exploring : "It is beneficial to us to explore for resources & accurate star charts. It is also beneficial to catalog sentient life close to the homeworld and categorize them as current / future neighbors or threats" . I'm basing my view of Humans / Starfleet on all of the classic Trek shows ... , that can be summed up as "yeehaa , let's go! " . As to the Vulcans -- Enterprise's early seasons mentioned "the Vulcan star charts" a lot, so there's that . Also, considering that Vulcan, Earth and Andoria are relatively close, it's logical to assume two things : The Vulcans didn't go too far from home, and in their initial explorations it didn't take them far before they encountered their fair share of trouble (Andorians & Klingons) -- all of which would play into their existing pragmatic and paranoid view of the galaxy and exploration . So while the Vulcans didn't suffer from extreme bouts of paranoia and xenophobia as the Romulans, the impetus was there and the bad experiences were there . With all that said, it must be pointed out that by Kirk's era, we had at least one Starfleet ship manned completely by Vulcans (group evolution) , and by Picard's era we had individual Vulcans serving in Starfleet (individual evolution) ... -- while they still maintained the 'group evolution' , as DS9 got us the T'Kumbra (misspelled ?) that also sounded like it might have had a full Vulcan crew (of baseball enthusiast) .

Modern ships, with the bulbous bows really do resemble triremes more closely than, say, a Spanish Galleon. And the raised wave breaker section and the bridge to the aft do make a lot of cargo ships look like canoes when you take off the bulbous bow section. So, honestly, I don't see a problem with the Vulcans repeating an ancient design if they felt like it.

When severely injured, I can imagine Vulcans losing control of their emotions, hence the restraining chairs. Triage, although more easily done while laying down, can be done sitting (regarding the patient). Why one bed? I'm guessing that intensive patients that need restraint and sedation get the spots closer to the equipment for immediate service, and that there might be another room less known of comprising an open space with several beds lined up for easy access; like cubicles in an office. A patient with a fractured bone or open wound gets the relaxed bed while the one in severe pain and losing the ability to focus and suppress their emotions get strapped down or straight up sedated. Since this may not be very common, I can see why there may not be so many of these.

You truly are the Videogamedunkey of syfy . Keep it up

What i want to know is why didnt humans build a circular warp nacelle ship if they knew the vulcans ships could do warp 7. Surely they would have thought "Hmm, they like it, so they put a ring on it. Now it goes really fast. Should we be building ringed ships?"

6:56 There is an Aerowing class shuttle in the top left hand corner of the image

Surak class, Suurok class, or the infamous Ciroc Lofton class ... The Vulcan ship classes are hard to keep track of.

I always took it as Vulcans never explored out of curiosity like Humans or Andorians, only for a specific purposes IE, They scan planet after planet to find specific needed resources but if orbital scans didn't reveal anything useful, They just left it alone until a new need arose that brought them back for more detailed surveys

I like that he makes a quote from doctor who at the end of each video

Could you do a video on which Federation ship classes served in what years, specifically in which wars?

The vulcans went through a cultural shift after enterprise after archer helped them. So the vulcans in early enterprise being different from the other shows make sense. The Vulcans also saw the galaxy as a dangerous place that became friendlier with the creation of the Federation. They weren't alone against the klingons or the unknown any longer. Their philosophy was allowed to evolve.

I think when the Vulcans say they're not "explorers", they mean they don't have an urge to just go out and look at things at random like humans do. "Oh, look, a nebula... Let's make a detour before going to that gas giant we were gonna look at." Vulcans research, but they don't do it for curiosity or fun like humans

6:50 we actually did and to some extent still do design and build ships with design elements that are thousands of years old. Sails for example, or the overall shape of the ship, rudders. Some things don't change, whether the reasons are practical or sentimental. Besides, ship design changed remarkably little in the span of a millenium depending on which one you look at.

it wasn't so much that they didn't like to explore, it was more they didn't typically make contact with the people they found along the way unless something like say a ship hitting warp speed from a pre-warp civilization catches there attention.

The straps are for members experiencing Pon Farr! (I dunno better than nothing?)

Even a stay at home species may send out SPY ships to keep an eye on dangerous neighbours.

This video is sooooooooooooo... canoe-phobic.

Vulcans didn't like to explore. But logic dictates it is necessary for them, as a race that deals with a lot of perils, to know as much as they can from every subject. So even if they didn't like to explore, they would still do it, and aim to be the best at it. It's only logical to put what is necessary above what is enjoyable. It's actually pretty much in character for Vulcans.

Yeah, the Vulcan's not liking to explore is like Starfleet not being a military, they may say that they aren't and may avoid it on a daily basis, but that is what they are. Also, we do base tech off of older ship, the catamaran was developed well over a thousand years ago, maybe even 20K years ago, but we one of the Navy's latest ships is a catamaran.

vulcans can regenerate themselves and also pass their conscience along so I suppose medical bays are superfluous, but those chairs are probably useful for unscheduled pon far

Gotta say this is an interesting vid :) Now for the Vulcans being "explorers" I'd say no as they're more just Cartographers if I remember right from Enterprise... The reason being is "if I'm remembering right" they don't go and look for X which is interesting they literally map out grid point by grid point making sure to take note of anything that may need further study.

I dunno, the Vulcans who were exiled/seceded decided to run "all the way" to Romulus, which we know canonically is spitting distance from Earth, which is spitting distance from Vulcan. Sure sounds like a race that doesn't like to go very far xD "Hey, we're a whole TWENTY LIGHT YEARS away! They'll never find us now!"

funny that the ring is probably whats really needed for "warp" drive xD as you can see in the nasa concept of a warp ship

The Vulcans although helped humans advance they also held them back. In one episode T'Pol said to Archer "it took us 10 years to go from warp 5 to 6 (??????)" And Archer responds "just because it took you 10 years doesnt mean it should take us 10 years" Or something like that I cant find the exact line.

Y’know.. gauging by how the Vulcans view logic vs emotions, up to the point of some even choosing to undergo the Ritual of Kohlinar.. you’d think the Borg would be their wet dream fantasy...

About the Vulcans declining to say they're into exploring. I've never seen it anywhere, but, maybe they're into business. So they're not just exploring, they're ultimately buying and selling. Like, the Ferengi, but, highly logical.

Awesome. I've always been curious about Vulcan ships.

Absolutely, The F-18 is little more then a fancy canoe...

Excellent vid, Lore Master! This was the first video I saw since being released from ICU (long story). This was exactly what I needed to get my lore on. How soon until the special gelato or the Federation / Gallifreyan specials?

Simple reason for restraints in Vulcan sickbays: the crew's freaking Vulcans. Pon Farr aside, if Vulcans get delirious, things break. If they aren't delirious they probably sit on an ottoman and meditate while being treated. :)

I did not know that that was their engines. I suppose I should have perhaps known that from the one entry in Star Trek calendar about the type of engine stay is but yeah no I didn't know that let alone that they fold down. Cool. Thank you.

I like to call that future Vulcan ship with the three rings the V'enn class, since it looks like a Venn diagram.

When vulcans loose focus they might become violent - So having restrains in sick bay kinda makes at least some sense - yes it looks odd but it does have some logic behind in on few levels.

Vulcans: We don't like to explore Also Vulcans: We made First Contact with humanity Also Vulcans: We call most of our ships "survey vessels" Hmmmmmmmmmm🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🖖🏻

They do seem to be more interested in exploring post Star Trek: Enterprise, but does anyone think that that change could be because of the change in government after V'Las was removed from power? My guess would be that he was holding them back (and had been for a while as Vulcans live quite long and we do not know exactly how long he was in power) at the direction of the Romulans for some reason. The change might have then occurred after he was removed from power.

The Surak was a nice looking ship.

I have a special affection for open ring ships. Those Vulcan ships, Ori ships, yup. Love 'em.

It's efficient. That's why there's little need for change.

I always felt Vulcans did explore, but they didnt do it as a race with the same zeal as humans. They seemed to limit it to logical pursuits in exploration. They were obviously more cautious and less cavalier about it.

It could also be that we only saw the outliers or the exceptions to the rule. If a massive country had an isolationist culture, it would only be those who did not live that culture who would be encountered by others.

The deplona hoth was a larger shuttle type craft.

I knew strappin fools down was logical!

I actually like the design of the Vulcan ships, though I think that if they were as logical as they claim they'd be extremely minimalist and spartan. Either way, I do like that the Romulan and Vulcan ships have some similarities in their roundness but use those shapes differently. I also love ships with rings, though mostly because I like the idea of using spin/centrifugal gravity in a habitation ring(which is what this isn't used for), though I'd imagine that you could easily disable the warp capabilities of a vulcan ship by blasting a chunk from the ring. Actually, that's a big problem with most Star Trek ships(one of the few ones I can think of that has integrated nacelles is the Defiant, which is honestly what I look for in a hard sci-fi space fighter, even though it's not)

The vulcan recreation institute presents: Warp Powered Canoes, logical and recreational for the whole family.

What about the Vulcan ships from the TNG episode with Spock? The Romulans retrofitted some Vulcan ships and loaded then with ground troops to try and invade Vulcan. We see those in the second part.

of coarse. makes sense they dont like to explore that much..but they dont like to fight even less so...

1:40 Of course they only needed 1 bio-bed, but it needed restraints. They could heal themselves through meditation unless they went crazy. Like with Sex Lust. So that's why. If they needed the bed, it was to heal a sex-crazed neurotic. 2:30 That is empty space. Not a "massive, massive shuttle bay." Look at photos from other perspectives. Like the very next one at 2:45. It is empty space. But a large "shuttle bay" would be useful for storage, visiting shuttles, gathering supplies and equipment or other cargo en route to a colony world, etc.