As a beginner, this is good to know. It can be a little intimidating in the lineup with experienced surfers, but most are cool and help you out.

Is this the generally accepted rule? Ive heard this a few times

Yes, this is true, but in 40 years of surfing Cali breaks, many experienced surfers take advantage of that position. And many times will whistle off beginners, carve a huge spray in their face, or flat out intimidate them - if not actually harm them, their board, or take their backpacks pop tires etc... This happens and is not talked about as wrong. Its laughing spoke of as localism and the right of passage etc... Even the WSL announcers and pro surfers endorse this behavior. As a black young surfer, all heads would turn and for me and my brother it was extra hard, but we were athletes, football players, and didn't scare easy the opposite, out of the water most surfers are small. But we had to handle it - until all of the locals knew us, saw that we were cool, and stayed out of our way. I began to surf as a bodyguard for other surfers who would give me gear and equipment, pay for gas, etc.. just to surf with them at a new break and deal with the locals. It's real, it's talked about, and no one is speaking up to help change it. It's worse now than in the '80s.

Thanks for that context! I did hear comments like, "it's not your fault if someone doesn't stay close to the peak. It's for the taking of anyone that can get close to the peak". I see the logic behind it. Like if a noob is, let's say, 5m away from the peak, yes it's too far and we can reasonably say or think that the noob is on a different line up. Also, it seems like such a waste and feels wrong to let that 5 metres of goodness go to waste. However it makes you wonder.. where do you draw the line? If I am 2 meters off the peak, can someone (who can air drop) waltz along inside of me and take priority, beecause he/she can? I'd have thought that's snaking and quite selfish.

@@Rk29th Yes! I agree, where do you draw the line? Again - Thank you for the reply. Our discussion is so essential if the sport of surfing continues to grow. 4 things to look at which will help. Agan not talking about waves of consequence where it's life and death like Pipeline. But the regular surfer looks at the Pipe contest and he and his boys go out to a 3-foot break in San Diego and treat people the same as the Pipe Crew and they feel justified and supported in their actions. 1 = Changing the culture around the welcome of all levels in the lineup - right now the mainstream media paints this picture - "Here comes a --- 'Noob', 'Kook', 'Beeny', 'Clam or #&ick Dragger', 'Junkyard Dog', etc... All terms (there are many more) fully excepted in the glossary of terms by the WSL, Announcers, Sponsors, and Pro-level surfers as ways to describe or communicate with or about nonlocals and beginners. I work in education - this is called bullying. If this is the baseline of how kids are taught as acceptable on the beach? then the next level of bullying, forms of violence, is a natural step. CHANGE THE CULTURAL BASELINE. 2 - The PATH on a wave of a true beginner, 90% of the time, IS STRAIGHT! So why not ask them to take the inside and you take the second position. I've done this so many times, both as a beginner and at the next levels. Everyone wins. You both paddle for the wave together - If they don't make the wave you're up and running, if they make the wave they almost always go straight, then you're still up and running, and if by chance they make the wave and the bottom turn then you both yell scream and laugh and you give way. The key to this is meeting and talking to each other out in the lineup, talking it up, sharing surf stories etc... Then make a plan together and go for it. 3 - To increase the BUSINESS Revenues of Surfing begins with Culture change starting with the WSL televised pro-level events and pro surfers. More people are watching WSL events as their inspiration to return to surfing or try it for the first time. That is the business goal of the WSL - Bring more customers to the sport which will bring more sponsors who bring more money to grow the purses, support the youth, Jr, and development programs, etc.. everyone wins. From a PURE BUSINESS perspective - your new customers are being treated EXTREMELY POORLY and the WSL encourages and supports that bullying treatment by laughing about the rights of passage, you have to gain respect from the locals, you must go up and talk to them, and have to be strong with your voice, don't respond when your called all of these names, or get your new board dinged or tires slashed, etc... 4 - Start talking about and supporting the TWO PATHWAYS of world surfing and what it means to be a great surfer. - The Greatest Pure Surfer - one with the ocean in all conditions, an artist on waves doing things which inspire others, world-class ambassador, and surfing any size wave around the world in all weather conditions. - The Greatest Competitor - Great athlete, knowing the rules, blocking, mind games, timing, taking competitive risks, having the toolbox of the moves and tricks, and being on attack mode to win at all cost. If you think about how this pertains to the local breaks. Usually, there are amazing pure surfers who are not only great when they catch a wave but also are amazing ambassadors cool people who call you by name when they say "Hey Kairand nice to surf with you today! Blessings brother, and say hello to that 110 degrees heat back in AZ for me will ya" (I will spend $800 to buy the board he is riding or the wetsuit he is wearing - I might even share with my friends) vs that hotshot who is fired up watching Kelly control his competitors at the Pipe Pro, this surfer will never ask for your name, thinks he owns the line because of his skill and wants to show that he's better than JJ or Medina powering through the lineup with only one goal - be the best that day. Because of his paddling speed, he gets to the inside positions all day long, whistling and calling people off the shoulder, spraying as many Kooks as he can - because he can. (I won't buy his brands, I might even tell my friends not to buy his brands) But he is just doing what he is seeing on TV. I really believe that the WSL level promotes both forms of surfing and that this will help the surf culture grow in positive ways. I personally like the new format for the WSL. It's a competition, not an entertainment tour - a small group of the best of the best competitors going at it to determine the World Champion. But why couldn't they showcase videos and feature more pure surfers during the WSL contest? Celebrate both forms I see lineups today where people aren't talking to each other, sitting silently, like it's a Pipe Final, all paddling for the position, taking everything so seriously, and all want that extra 3 meters of a wave to themselves to grab that extra turn or two and to somehow make a point that they're king of the beach? JOY of surfing together, like skiing, or snowboarding --- together enjoying this amazing beautiful art form that was gifted to use by the indigenous island cultures. I love surfing, my Danish Grand Father loved surfing - Surfing is so important.

Waiting the longest in position

@@KalesBroccoli thanks for the correction :) but still I wish I was seeing that happen in real life :) Well to be fair I’ve seen that happen on occasion when we were no more than 5 on a given peak.

never happens in california. hawaii it’s respected more

Yep, that bit at the end he describes as bad….any break in NSW with more than 5 out back. Better surfers, long boarders and SUPs sniping every wave. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah I’ve been surfing a long time and in a crowded line up I’ve not experienced the wait your turn wish it was real but it ain’t sadly.

Longboard came first, lol. IJK, but I think that’s why short boarders invented SUP, 😂 to get the edge back;)

@@wessmithp5560 That´s a lie! Surfing was invented several hundred of years ago, people firstly were bodysurfing, then using something like a bodyboard, then starting to stand up on these"bodyboards", lastly were "longboards" used. Even in ancient times resources were limited, or they were even more scarces. The place which made surfing exposed to the world - Hawaii- only rich noble persons were allowed to have a longboard, because even their making had a large impact on environment, the rest of non-noble people, 90%, were shortboarders.

Thats so true!

I was on a longboard a few weeks ago at my local. It's a tough wave for shortboarders in general but it was just big enough that it was makeable about 1 wave/set. With a rising tide I kept finding that any wave I let go past was going unridden (despite their efforts), so I started paddling for/catching more. One of the shortboarders paddled out and yelled at me saying I was taking way too many. Am I the asshole if they weren't able to make them on their boards?

@@sharp-endmedia8314 they miss 75% at least, I see this all the time.

This scenario is too real, especially if you find yourself catching the first wave of a set which stalls Out, or you are just inside catching small waves when a set rolls through… theres always “that moment” when you have to decide: to i break for the shoulder, or paddle towards the inside. Unfortunatley i usually end up with a zig zaggy combo of both, trying to read whats happening and get out if the way. Unfortunatly this doesnt always work, snd itd be nice to have a system of communication like turn signals are to a car to avoid this. When im on the wave i like to use my arms to kind of Point which direction im going. I feel like a kook because i have been surfing for a long time and still run into this scenario a lot, as both the person who is the problem, and the person to whom the problem is occurring. Really its a two way street

If youre from a land locked state you "waited the longest" I own the beach baby.

totally agree

Lemme guess, you’re Australian? 😅

@@onezerooneo Yep.

true, at many breaks the person with inside position takes the wave .... but theres always that one guy/gal that paddles around you for inside position on every set wave... 😏

Yeah in a utopic world he would be right, but that's not reality.

"priority position is" could not correct it once I posted it.

This happens a lot at Leo Carillo. In my experience it's not even the people I see there repeatedly.

This is one of the few times when it is okay to (safely) drop in. Also, feel free to shame him in front of the whole line up next time in between sets. Let him sit with the awkward tension. Snakes are the absolute worst.

​@@tldrttyl how about tell them kindly? Maybe they have no idea about surfing etiquette...

🙏🏽

So true. Right or wrong, like it or not, the “having inside position” rule takes precedence over the “waiting the longest” rule 90% of the time at even moderately crowded breaks.

Good post! Re the First point -absolutely - I witnessed a guy get a punch in the head for his troubles doing that to a local out at Honolulu Bay a few years ago. The second point from Kale brings the murky perspectives of localism and capability into the equation. High performance breaks will have a pecking order for set waves. As a non-local you’ll need to prove that you are capable of handling the place (via smaller inside waves) before you’ll be ‘trusted’ to take a set……… places like Snapper Rocks (and Noosa during a cyclone) are a zoo of rabid pros and wannabe’s, best advice is to find a quieter place where you can get your wave count and skills up……. Unless what you want to do is hone your hassling skills!

@@minniman24 very good! It is an equation and a complicated one 😂 one that every surfer needs to figure out on their own over many years, many breaks and many waves. 🤙🏼

@@jblo76 Which a lot of the time is fine I think. What bugs me is a last minute paddle inside where I was obviously waiting when a better wave is obviously coming. But if someone has paddled back out and we've both been waiting a while and a wave comes they happen to be closest to the peak then that's fine. Or if they judge the peak better by sitting farther outside, then that's OK too. Of course I'm mostly talking about beach breaks here where peaks are coming in different places a lot of the time.

😂 maybe you’re just slow and out of position

It’s subjective right! What someone may consider being snaked may be the other surfer identifying the ability of the other surfer and the likelihood of them making the take off based from previous observations.

Maybe time to say something

It’s global revenge for short boarders on a point break that requires a quick take off/turn to avoid a rock where the longboard is limited to a meter or so to the outside;). Short board always wins in that scenario. But yeah, might be time for a quick hey there…good luck 🍀

Just drop in on them. Or paddle battle with them on every wave and push them out of position. They need the exercise 😂

if longboarders are doing that, I start snaking their waves by taking off inside of them lol. If they say something to me, I point out the fact nobody else is catching any waves because they're going for everything

I'm so flabbergasted that people don't understand snaking. I am trying to extrapolate this idea from the core surfing community (arguably those who have surfed longest) and spread it to the wider population. Look at the WSL rules, all these etiquette guidelines are reflected there.

@@KalesBroccoli There are many times more surfers that dont give a shit about the WSL or any other organization then do. There are also a good number who have been around longer. Competitions have nothing to do with what happens in the water on a day to day basis.

@@jfratis9081 My home break has tons of retired QS and even a CT guy or two. There are no rules at all. You can be sitting right on a wide open peak and people will paddle out to get inside of you. Everyone is either a pro or complete kook with 0 in between. I really enjoy the waves but it's the only rideable place within a 2 hour drive and it gets so bad that I'd rather just stay home most of the time.

Ya, because you're just a glorified gang of crap surfers trying to change the rules to your advantage lol. Localism = garbage

I take it anyway and ride behind them as close as possible. Sure, I might sometimes give priority to an uncle but if I'm going for a wave and have right of way, I NEVER back off it, I don't care who else is going for it. Sometimes to get respect in a lineup you can't be giving away all your waves. If you come across as passive nobody in the lineup will respect you.

@Hanabadah I’ve run into that in Cali, usually from guys who are 40 or older.

Ya, unless one of your crew decided to randomly not like someone who was following etiquette but was also good and getting waves, so you drop in on them/harass them/threaten them. Localism = garbage

I think those scenarios without a clear peak is just a free for all. But I think it's good to let others ride every so often, even if you have right of way, just so you aren't hogging all the waves

Yeah just gotta go with it and communicate

This can be challenging, just have to play it section by section usually - closest to the peak etc

Just fucking go bro

If you're riding the wave? If you can tell they know how to paddle they should be able to paddle inside or outside of you if you just hold your line. 2. If you have the time and space and it's clear that they're just sitting there and you will probably hit them on your current path, then bail out. Fall off your board. Again...making sure you have the space with the length of your leash etc. 3. If it's too late for all of that, try your best to not look at the person you are about to hit. Focus on a line away from the surfer in the water and you just might be surprised that your board will follow and you will suddenly learn what a turn feels like. 4. It a collision is inevitable then just try your best to limit the damage. Most likely that means falling off your board as soon as you can. Cover up your face and head with your arms to avoid getting hit by either of the boards and hope they are doing the same.

wow. i would've been telling him to paddle wider or inside (to the whitewater) after the second time. often at PB's there's less sweep wider, too, so a longer distance paddle but easier.

@@1974mazdarx3sedan yeah I wanted too haha. This was at Topanga and if you didn't know, that wave full of beginners and angry locals who take off on whatever wave they want. So this situation didn't annoy me too much until he got mad at me. Then I did say that I wouldn't have "almost hit him" if he didn't didn't paddle directly in front of me. I'm still a teen though so that's about as much as I'm ever gonna say to anyone older than me in the lineup

I’m sure people have interpreted that before

Yes. they’re often the worst offenders

Very contextual but sounds like they’re trying to snake you. Depends who’s been waiting longest

Well said.

Good longboarders are normally well behaved

Just drop in on snakes. They are the worst.

@@tldrttyl yeah if someone is snaking me on purpose i'll drop in on them every time

First time, I’d give him the wave. Second time, it’s your wave. If you try to say something and he does that awkward avoid-eye-contact thing, just drop in on him for the rest of the sesh.

Haha I find that it really doesn't matter what nationality - it's a certain late beginner / early intermediate "nobody owns the ocean" demographic that is the consistent factor!

Contextual - there’ll be people who replace you. Best not to paddle if someone is on

👏🏽

Ban SUPs

@@KalesBroccoli my mate would just say “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” 🤣 anyways great video man 👍

Give them the first wave. If they snake you again, just drop in.

The way I deal with aggro locals who break all etiquette is by dropping in on them. When they protest, just say, “since when do you care about surf etiquette?”

@@tldrttyl sure bud. Till yo catch cracks and we all laugh

Maybe you’re waiting out of position? I see it happen a lot 🙏🏽

@@KalesBroccoli some times for sure, but there has been a couple when i was in the right spot yet no acknowledgment of line up and it is hard specially when they paddle by you, so they KNOW you have been waiting. Trust me, my first instinct is always check WHAT I AM DOING, if i am right then i look at whts happening with others. Although i am in France and i am not French and learning fast that french people are really secretly extremely rasists, sadly to say...

That’s why it’s best not to say anything and to just drop in on them the next time.

🤷🏼‍♂️

Drop in on him and say bring it

Hahahaha great definition

It's just an example bro, and it's funny.

Please surf your kayak down the beach with nobody around haha yes

The magical powers include paddling right by you while avoiding eye contact and ignoring your entire existence..

nope. Wrongdoings of the past do not justify inequality in the present. You can't call for equality then pull a race/gender card when it suits you.