Whatever the calling or song is, it is related to Titans and their blood, which is lyrium. It is stated by Justice and Bartrand that lyrium sings, almost like how the old gods sing. Its all interconnected somehow. And notice what Flemeth says, " As long as the music plays, we dance." I think that has more meaning than we think. I think she is talking about the song that is emitted by lyrium, the old gods, and the titans. Notice how everyone who hears this song is a mindless slave? Ancient elven codex's state that the "pillars of the earth " or Titans had workers that were witless, souless.When I first saw that codex, I thought the "pillars of the earth" were a reference to the old gods and that the "witless souless" workers were darkspawn. See the parallel here? It is implied that the "witless workers" were dwarves. At some point the dwarves had a "hive mind" connection to the titans, but somehow it was severed, and the dwarves became free thinking. In fact, the same thing happens to darkspawn. When the Architect gave Grey Warden blood to darkspawn to drink, they became highly intelligent, and even capable of speaking and reasoning. As an added bonus, these intelligent darkspawn were also unable to hear the call of the old gods. In Dragon Age 2, Varrics brother Bartrand was similarly enthralled by the shard of a red lyrium idol. If Anders is in the party, you have the option of interrupting Bartrands connection to the idol for a brief moment. Upon doing so, Bartrand returns to his senses and states "Varric, I cant hear the song anymore." All in all, I think that Flemeths quote about music and dancing is intrinsically tied to this singing or calling. As long as the singing/calling is being emitted, everyone is just a pawn or slave to greater beings emitting these songs. As long as the music plays, we dance.

I'm enjoying the image of hyper-intelligent mage dragons.

The Old Gods may have being the original enemy that raised the Evanuris to godhood, in their struggle to win they mined the titans and may even used the blight against it, maybe even mixing both and creating red lyrium. In the end they win and bind the Old Gods under the earth. And just like how Corypheus makes you look messianic, the old gods made them look divine. Maybe the Calling is like the calling of a laser beacon to a drone, and ancient call to destroy the enemy, but as Solas said, you can't use the blight for good.

I always felt like Solas's reaction to the warden's plan in Inquisition is more suspicious than he was leading on. "You dont know what would happen?!" Bruh... what else you hidin?

Solas mentioned that the elder one (not spelling today) used a trick the elves god used to tie their souls to Dragons to make them immortal, perhaps the old gods are the dragons linked to the elven gods after being sealed

This is definitely one of my favorite youtube channels. Thanks for all the hard work. These are so fascinating to hear.

I agree with the Idea 💡 that the Old Gods are Ascendant High Dragons or Dragon Kings. Why? Flemeth sent Morrigan to preserve Urthemial’s Soul just like Yvanna was preserving the dragons in the comic book series. I believe that Dragons like the Titans have arcane, mystical ties to the world of Thedas. Titans represent the Element of Earth, Dragons represent the Element of Fire 🔥, so out there are two other mystical beings/species that represent Air & Water. I believe that Dragons and Titans act as Anchors of Creation. That’s why Flemeth/Mythal and the Witches of the Wilds seek to preserve them. Without Titans and Dragons the world would fall out of balance. Also, this would explain why Solas was so adamant about killing the Old Gods as they slumbered as abominable because these Ancient Dragons are to Dragons what the Evanuris are to Elves. I think people need to start thinking of the word “demon” more in the Greek meaning of the word: “god-like entity.” I think Demons are those spirits that are tainted by evil emotions and deymons are spirits like the Solas, Cole, the Old Gods and the Evanuris: extremely powerful spirits, create their own bodies, and can alter their physical forms as they wish. I’m pretty sure before their imprisonment the Old Gods could take humanoid forms and the Horned Qunari is where Humanoid Old Gods (Dragons) taking humanoid form and passing on their blood to humans.

Most likely the old gods are spirits/demons bound to the body of dragons like the Dragon from the jaws of harrkon dlc

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but besides Dumat, most of the Old Gods seem to be named after angels as well! Zazikel = Zazkiel, angel of freedom Razikale = Raziel, angel of mystery, also known as Keeper of Secrets. And who else is known as Keeper of Secrets? Well, yeah, greater daemons of Slaanesh. But, I meant Dirthamen... Also, there's a list of imaginary archangels some GURPS fans have come up with, which has (besides Dumah and Raziel) Tothiel and Andariel, angel of unity on it... Didn't spot Urthemiel or Lusacan.

Thanks for all your logics and thoughts, well done !

On the Old Gods themselves... I'd guess that they were very ancient dragons who co-existed with/hosted specific spirits back Before The Veil. Being torn from each other Damaged both dragons & spirits so they both sought to become joined again. There is precedent from The Tranquill, Wynne, Justice, Cole, Kieran, etc, that being parted from The Fade/a spirit after co-existing is "lonely". Spirits, typically neutral save for personifying a specific aspect of life, seldom last being brought across The Veil without becoming demons. Anders' merging with Justice is an example in of itself of how co-existence can Go Wrong. Plotting to breach The Veil with their "priests" as avatars (Flemeth's locket trick similarly being used by the dragons to use the magisters as Proxies) to reunite with their spirits (because, from a dragon's perspective, ALL of the Old Gods represent major, mundane, aspects of life: slaves as in "drakes" - thralls to sire their young and guard their nests as they hunt & explore) only to reunite Changed & end up Tainted afterward. Kieran certainly behaves much more like Cole than he does a freed & power-hungry god. It also ties neatly with this "soul of a god" bit if it literally referred to a spirit.

Mind blown! Seriously, building to the 'why' part of the origin of the Blight, just awesome!

I still think there's a link between the Evanuris and the Old Gods. I don't think they ARE them, but I do think there's a link. I actually see them being similar to the Guardian of Mythal an interesting option. (they could have been something far more in ancient times. Maybe they were vessels of power, their most powerful servants, or simply a manifestation of their power (symbolically). I don't think it's the dragons themselves that called to the Magisters and then to the Darkspawn. I would think the Evanuris call THROUGH their Guardians in order to get them freed. Now, this eventually means that they are killed, or at least inevitably corrupted. So why would they want to do this to their Guardians? Maybe that's the point. Maybe they are forced to sacrifice their most prized servants in order to free themselves? Maybe their Guardian's prisons are less intended to be prisons for the Old Gods and more a seal to keep the Evanuris trapped in the Black City. Using their own power (the guardian's) to keep them imprisoned. With each Old God that is freed, the seal is weakened. And once the last one is freed, so are the Evanuris. This could also explain why Solas was so adamant on how foolish the Warden's plan was to reach the Old Gods ahead of time. What if it didn't end the Blight but instead unleashed something far worse? The Elven Gods. As for their spheres not matching, many things can happen when cultures evolve. Especially language. Remember how Andruil was actually the God of Sacrifice according to Solas? This means that there is a bit of wiggle room for the Old Gods and the Evanuris to match. And if they aren't actually THE Evanuris, but rather their Guardians, it could account for more inconsistencies. The association I'm making are admittedly a bit of a stretch at times, but I can definitely see there being many more revelations regarding the Elven Gods that shift our perspective on them. *Elgar'nan VENGEANCE - Dumat SILENCE (mainly because of both being the leaders of the pantheon. There could also be a touch of irony with Dumat's name and Elgar'nan's fate). *Andruil HUNT/SACRIFICE - Zazikel CHAOS or Andoral SLAVES (given the codex entries found in Inquisition, especially relating to her madness, combining it with her new title of goddess of sacrifice, Andruil seems to be a very chaotic force. Alternatively, a comparison can be made between sacrifice and slavery, especially with Andruil who delved into dark magic. Also, the names are similar between Andoral and Andruil. This last point is not all that important but it's worth mentioning) *Falon'Din DEATH - Andoral SLAVES or Lusacan NIGHT (Falon'din was a vain man it appears. He was power hungry and started a war that required the rest of the Evanuris to stop him. So his association with slaves could make sense. Or night could be associated with death in some way.) *Dirthamen SECRETS - Razikale MYSTERY *Ghilan'nain HALLA - Not really sure with this one, tbh. Could be associated with Urthemiel if we're making a big stretch but they don't really convince me enough. Though if she WAS so connected to Andruil, then maybe Ghilan'nain was not as much of a nice person as we might have thought. Her creations might be considered slaves after passing into legends, so maybe Andoral? (especially if any of her creations included experiments like Qunari or something, but this is besides the point and baseless admittedly) Still a fairly big stretch for that, but it's possible. *June CRAFT - Urthemiel BEAUTY *Sylaise HEARTH - Toth FIRE

I like to think they are some form of precursor to dragons, being the reason dragons have such magical blood, or they are the first of the dragons whom gained control of a sphere of influence, which could be an interesting parallel to the paragons of the dwarves

I think you missed the point of Sten/Arishok's quote of the Tome of Koslun. I mean what is really different between a king and ordinary man? Nothing really, other than the title of king and the fact the belief the title is legitimate among everyone. Take the title and belief away and the King for the most part is an ordinary man. So the Old Gods may have just been kings of the Dragons but nothing really separates them from being different from other dragons aside from their title.

Super cool theory. (New fan of your channel by the way.) Based on what you said, do you think Solas knew this all along? He has been in the fade for a long time after he created the veil and went into uthenera. If he did know that the old gods returned to their physical forms in the deep roads, why he seemed concern for their survival and not liking grey wardens killing them off. Is it because he wanted to kill them himself to take revenge for Mythal? Also interesting that you said that the dragons are the Forgotten Ones and not the Evanirus. There was another KZfaqr that suggested that the Forgotten Ones might be slaves. Hmmm..(Uthemiel was the first one that spoke to a magister through his dream to follow Corypheus to break into the Golden City. If Uthemiel is now untainted due to the dark ritual, then would Uthemiel return as an evanirus god to claim something Solas took away from him? Then again, you said Evanirus can't be the dragons so, ....?)

Just re-watched parts 1 and 2, and Ghil Derithalan's Evanuris theory video. I'm really excited for part 3 to a full comparison.

I's been a month... patiently waiting for another vid. Wish there will be some for Christmas time. And if not... marry holidays to the Kingdom! :)

I believe the Old Gods are Archdragons, and when the Darkspawn infect them with the Taint they transform into Archdemons. I also believe that there are three ranks of Dragons: Archdragons (Old Gods), High Dragons (Intelligent, Flight capable males & females), and Dragons (flight capable females with Flightless males).

I believe the old gods and Evanuris line up perfectly. Zazikel the old god of freedom lines up to Ghilan'nain, her story from dalish is about her escaping a trap. Andruil Andoral line up perfecly as both are gods of chaos. Ghilan'nain also lines up with envy demon. Andruil lines up with despair demon. They all line up perfectly

The Real question is why. It seems pretty obvious that the goal for the Old Gods (whatever they were) was to release the blight onto Thedas since after the Magisters Sidereal came back the Gods stopped talking. That suggests that either their goals for the Magisters and Imperium were accomplished or simply going to the Black City severed communication. The second concept doesn't seem very likely so let's assume all the Old Gods really wanted was to get the Magisters to the dark city and release the Blight. The fundamental question is: what did that accomplish? If the Old Gods and the Sleeping Dragons are one and the same, that would imply that they wanted to be infected or were at least willing to be infected in exchange for their freedom but that makes your question about why not use Tevinter's armies and slaves to free them even more perplexing. Conversely if we assume the Old Gods of Tevinter were in some sense the Forgotten Ones and the sleeping Dragons are the actual Evanuris, then the puzzle becomes much simpler. The Forgotten Ones would have wanted to use the blight to destroy their most hated rivals and since they dwell in the Void they might have begun to simply ignore Tevinter after that. They were pawns who'd played their role. It also explains why the choice was made to attack the sleeping Evanuris with the Blight rather than simply order Tevinter to destroy them: the Evanuris don't die easily and the Tevinter armies probably couldn't do it. But once corrupted, they remain corrupted and seem to lose any god like abilities they once had since there's no sign of an arch demon using any. As far as we can tell, even their immortality doesn't let them escape the maddening taint. I'd ask if the dragons are actually the ones calling the darkspawn or if this is bait left by a malevolent force like the Forgotten Ones. That's my theory but I can think of a dozen more. To solve this puzzle we really need to answer two questions: Why did the Old Gods want the city to be breached and why did they stop talking. Did they want to release the Blight or was that an accident? Did they intentionally stop talking or did something happen that forced that? I fall into the category of assuming that the Blight was part of their plan but if it wasn't, then they could have been trying to do any number of things we can only guess at. P.S. I just wanted to mention I don't think it's ever explicitly identified that Morrigan's son's soul is from a being called Urthemial. It's a God's soul but no one ever gives it a name.

all the gods, old gods, forgotten ones, elven gods, etc. were all the first mages my theory is that they were the first mages which is why they were held in high regard. they were regarded over time as gods because of the power they held. is it possible that when their followers started trying to wield magic, the "gods" doubled down with their power. thus solas' story of locking them all up because of how abusive they were of their powers? thus magisters > trying to release the old gods being promised great power > the calling, etc and i think lyrium was the way that "ordinary" people started being able to wield magic like the "gods" the blight being created to kill thousands of the people because they angered the "gods" and red lyrium being a blighted version of lyrium which somehow connects. i dunno. ive thought of lots of stuff

I wouldn’t think the evanuris would need to leave the fade to contact the magister, just magically project their thoughts to tevinter magisters powerful enough to hear them

I honestly don't see why the Old God's/archdemons-to-be couldn't be both demons AND part of the Evanuris. Maybe in ending the war, creating the Fade and locking up the Evanuris, Solas unwittingly freed their spirits/made them into demons. I still think they're connected in soul form (Avatars, etc, but soul energy is tricky. If you're going to make a familiar, you need to invest part of your own energy) to the old gods in dragon form. I have a feeling it's all connected, and it definitely has something to do with the Black City as a prison. Then again, I still believe the real problem is the Blight they created (on purpose or by accident) to destroy the Titan, and I still think whatever 'betrayal' happened, the Blight was the result, and Solas now KNOWS that simply locking up the others no longer has the Blight contained, which is why he has to undo what he did. The Blight and whoever created it (my money still on Andruil or Ghil'a'nan) will end up being the actual antagonist.

So, the Calling is a fail safe that prevents the Old Gods from being free by their own autonomy...? So, that’s the only reason that Blight Tainted beings can hear the Calling...?

Here's a weird question: I am playing DA 2 again and during the deep roads expedition you find and fight the Profane, hunger demons. The main one says that they are still feeding and they hunger. Now the focus of red lyrium is on the idol, but pretty much all the lyrium you find during the Profane part of the quest is red. What have the hunger demons been feasting on for thousands of years? The blue lyrium? The blood of the Titan? Is the corruption of blue lyrium because the hunger demons have been eating all the properties of the blue lyrium turning it red... Corrupting it with the hunger demons essence? Could this be an unforseen complication of the Magisters breach of the city, releasing the demons to the old Dwarven city?

So, wait, what does that say about Mythal teaching Morrigan how to shape shift into a dragon if it was only meant for the gods?

I know I'm late to the party but if the black city was used to hold the old gods than whatever path the tavinter registers used to enter the old gods could have used to escape. That would match what Corypheus had said about the city being empty, because it's only occupants ran out as the magisters entered. Also why their punishment was so severe. Not just for entering the city, but for allowing the old gods to escape.

One interesting thing to consider is this: High dragons are exclusively female creatures, with the males being lesser dragons called drakes. Yet, the old gods seem to defy this fact. The old god pantheon is consistent of both male and female dragons for some reason.(Urthimiel and Razikale being female examples and Dumat being a male example.) Couple that with the fact that there are seven Evanuris(minus Mythal) and seven old gods, as well as the form of the serpent/dragon being "the form of the gods", and I think that we have a sufficient amount of evidence to triangulate the truth. The truth is that the old gods are related to the Evanuris in some way. Perhaps these dragons contain the power of the Evanuris. The Iron Bull did state that he believed dragons represent raw power. Corypheus was powerful enough to possibly be considered a rival to the Evanuris, yet the Inquisition seemed more fearful of his pet dragon than the magister himself. It would make sense I suppose. If one is going to imprison seven mighty god-like beings, one might want to make sure they do not have access to their power, otherwise they would probably just tear the veil down and break out. Solas was powerful, but I doubt he rivaled the might of seven of them altogether.

But what happened to Evanuris when Sidereal broke into the Black City?

I would really like to speak one on one about this theory.

What if the old gods actually want to become archdemons? What if that’s the only way to free themselves, and they consider any side effects to be worth it?

I’ve heard a theory that the Old Gods are the high priests of the Evanuris

We don’t know it was actually the Old Gods who contacted the Magisters Sideral. In Inquisition there is a series of codices in the Hinterlands about the ancient Almarri. In there, the ‘gilded city’ is mentioned and how a powerful mage was being pushed to go there. No mention of the Old Gods. So we don’t know if something else has been talking to powerful mages in Ancient Times and trying to trick them into the Gold/Gilded City. Also, in the second Wonders of Thedas book and DAI codices it suggests worship of the Old Gods was waning in Ancient Tevinter as they had stopped communicating. So again, we can’t be sure it was actually Dumat talking to Corypheus.

I found your channel just recently and, though I know you will most likely not see this, I would like to bring up something that I have yet to hear being discussed on KZfaq from channels like yours. At the end of base-game Inquisition, we get the cut-scene where Solas and Mythal meet before an Eluvian. Before anyone speaks, Mythal can be seen putting "something" into the Eluvian that looks like Urthemial's soul. Could it be possible, considering that Mythal has survived all this time, that she has been systematically collecting the souls of the Old Gods every time a blight has been defeated? Saving them for something or locking them away so that they do not interfere in her plans? And if so, why would she do that? Could it be that their connection to the Evanuris is something more than what we believe? Could it be that they, perhaps, have some connection and/or purpose that we do not know? That they are an integral part of her own machinations we may not be aware of? in regards to Mythal/Flemeths "reckoning" that she claims she will have, intends? Just a thought.

I'm confused - why wouldn't the Old Gods be able to talk to one another pre-Second Sin? If they were all trapped in the Black City together, wouldn't that mean that they had access to one another in some way? Y'know, since they're all in the same prison and whatnot? I also don't understand how they couldn't have called out to the Magisters to free them - weren't they already communicating to them through dreams? Is the point here that the force that imprisonned them so strong that they shouldn't have been able to do _anything_ at all? EDIT: Upon further reflection, it occurs to me that I may have been assuming that the Old God's being inside the Black City was just a common idea, that tricking the Magisters to break into the Fade was just a means to unleash the Blight, not themselves. I guess this is what happens when you watch a video half-distracted and upon re-watching take some ideas for granted, lol. So basically in this video you propose the idea that the Old Gods were not _entirely_ underground pre-Blight and were in fact imprisonned inside the Black City, and the breach released their spirits into the world?

I always pictured the Old Gods as High Priests of the Evanuris, ones that have drunk from their gods respective well (of sorrows) after all, after drinking from the well morrigan is able to transform into a dragon. Maybe the high priests wanted to rescue their gods but were trapped underground somehow?

Could the old gods be the titans that the Evanuris "killed"? Can you kill a titan? I think there's a theory that red lyrium was created from the decaying blood of the titans the Evanuris killed. But what happens to the consciousness of the titan if it is killed? Does this go anywhere?

👍👍.

I like this, but why would traits and names of the elven gods have to match up with the old gods? I doubt that Tevinter would have cared about the titles, they are two different societies.

Maybe the Calling is a blighted version of the way the old gods used to talk to the Magisters Sidereal.

It's a great video.

Just saying it would be cool as hell if the warden's son is the main character in da4 and he had to overcome the evanuris

What if the Evanuris, masking themselves as the old gods, called to Tevinter from the black city. The plan all along, would have been to make Tevinter powerful enough to breach the Fade and Black City physically, and free the Evanuris. But then, why didn't the Evanuris escape? Maybe a safeguard expelled the magisters, and sealed the rift, before they had a chance to escape. Alternatively, perhaps that was only the first step. They intended to use the magisters as carriers for the blight, once the blight had wrought mass death, the veil would be thin enough to break out of the fade, even from the black city, or even return the black city to the physical world. Some further questions. Why didn't the Evanuris advantage of the magisters breach of the black city and escape. Either from the way they came in, or elsewhere in the fade, where the veil is thinner? Also, given that the blight nearly destroyed Thedas several times, why was that an insufficient weakening of the veil, to facilitate their escape?

Dumat is more connected in symbolism to Mythal, especially in the Star signs.

Isn’t zazakiel the only potentially female old god?

Evanuris - mythal and solas = 7 + Forgotten ones= 10 Now, there are 7 old gods + one that has been stricken from record= 8 Ok, well look up the existence of Great Dragons. They are ancient dragons said to be even more powerful than high dragons. And there is said to be 2 of them. 8+2= 10 10 elvhen gods locked up, 10 great dragons, 8 dead and 2 alive.

the only thing that irked me about this video is you referred to mythal using sylaise pic, loved everything else tho!

Like the ancient Greek/Rome Pantheons, a god doesn't necessarily commit to a single nature/symbol or even one name, like Artemis/Diana, goddess of hunt, virginity, childbirth etc. Same goes for the Evanuris. And there's another piece though. "Threnodies 5": There was no word. For heaven or for earth, for sea or any. All that existed was silence. Ring any bells?

wouldn't sylaise and dumat make more sense?

Urthemiel is a He, lol. I know, Beauty and Men. But surely a man can be beautiful? Razikale is the only known Female Old God. Ironically, I do pair up Dumat and Urthemiel because, a Powerful God King and the most Beautiful God? Power Couple Rule 101, look at any pantheon since time began. My theory is of course, that the Old Gods were either the actual children of Mythal and Elgar'nan or Creations Mythal and maybe Elgar'nan. Each of the Old Gods have their own special talents and fields, which I tend to juxtapose with their personality. Urthemiel's power is creative, energy and matter from nothing, but as a flip of that Urthemiel cannot appreciate things of true beauty leading to a kind of apathy. What always got to me is Urthemiel's soul, right? Since the soul enters Kieran's body before he is born, how can Kieran have been born with his own soul? And likewise, two souls in the same body destroys the Old God right, so how can two souls exist in Kieran? Unless, and this is my guess, Flemeth merely took away the part that is Urthemiel but in return Kieran may be a bit... closer to Tranquil. Which ironically, matches my opinion regarding Urthemiel's apathy.

urthemiel is male

Mate stop trying to figure this out I’m sure bioware don’t even know what’s going on lol