Point of back up irons is that it's a chunk of metal/ high quality polymer that does not get affected by weather/ dirt / or any outside elements. It's supposed to be a fail safe so if anything or everything fails. You have them to rely on

You said be open minded and i thought to myself jokingly "two red dots" and not 10 seconds later...

had never considered this until this explanation, one of your best vids yet, thank you, keep em coming!

Interesting points. Having learned to shoot on irons, I really have no problem using them; in fact out to 100, I’d argue I’m more accurate, if not just as accurate, as I am with a dot. Back up irons still make sense to me.

I really dig offset dots, my personal guns have irons on them still. I like that fact that irons are not bothered by rain or humidity and or dirt/batteries. I really like that for a backup aiming solution. I have seen far more electronic sights fail than irons fail, even though red dots are far superior in regards to aiming the gun. No wrong answers on this one. Just make sure they're zeroed 🇺🇲.

I’ve got a 509T offset to my 1-6 on my go to rifle. I do have irons as well, but only because I already had them. If I didn’t already have them laying around, I certainly wouldn’t have bought another set. If my razor and dot go down in a fight, God’s calling me home pretty loudly at that point.

This method is logical in the current social environment. And if you have a dedicated WROL or grid down weapon it is perfectly viable to have a primary rifle with this set up. But I only have one rifle. And in a prolonged WROL society, I definitely want irons. In the event that I can’t necessarily get my primary optic back up and running due to lack of logistics, I don’t wanna be stuck with an offset sight for a long period of time.

Fantastic video, Mark. That gave me some stuff to go think about. Thanks man!

Interesting perspective. Solar backup would be cool on a backup sight I think. Thanks for sharing!

Seems like a solid solution

Ha... great vid!!! I just recently did the same thing. Built a new pistol and was missing a set of irons... had an rmr and an offset mount layin' around... Figured I do it on scoped rifles so why not. It's the best thing I ever stumbled upon. Think outside the box boys... it's awesome. YMMV

The older I get, the more I believe every rifle needs non battery operated sights. Regarding iron sights falling off, that's user error, unless they bought cheap sights. Remember, loctite needs you to use their primer since the metal has a coating. If loctite can't touch bare metal, it needs their primer. Or, you could switch to VC3 or nail polish. Vortex recommends nail polish.

I like a fixed front sight, folding rear, and RDS with 1" mount

Great points! And thanks because now I don’t feel as stupid, lol. Thought about doing this but no one does it so figured it was a “solution looking for a problem”. I don’t shoot rifle much but do want a higher mount than my irons will be visible through so thought about an offset dot. Very good points on shooting in awkward positions and using a solar version. Thanks for the practical knowledge 👍

Never really thought about this as an option but after listening to you explain I think it’s a far better way to go rather than irons. It’s definitely has a weird vibe to it just being that it’s 2 red dots but like you said everyone agrees it’s ok to have a red dot with a lvpo. Thanks for the info 🤘

Arisaka makes an offset mount that can get you to 2.2 inches above the rail, which is close to your main optic height of 2.26 inches above the rail.

Great info Mark. I really wish we had some good offset rds options that had an etched reticle.

How do you address the issue of rifle cant with the offset mount? The trajectory is no longer in the same plane as the line of sight. I totally respect Mark and want to know what he does. Each method is a compromise, and I would like to get some good advice about handling the issue of canted sights. I've asked my local police instructors for advice in a similar polite and respectful manner. They did not understand what canting the sights does, so they ridiculed me for asking the question. The rest of the students and Police Officers piled on with more insults. Gotta love it. Mark is so respectful and has integrity and expertise.

This genius. I love eotech’s but the battery life and auto shut off has kept me away. And like you said I don’t like irons. You have any experience with the Holosun 509T. I like that’s it a closed emitter but I’ve heard the glass isn’t good. As in distortion central! Thanks and keep up the good work. I learn more from you than any of the mainstream channels.

It makes sense. Same “manual of arms” per se with primary and secondary sighting systems. KISS

I had this idea over a year ago. People said I was stupid. Lol glad to see I'm not the only one

Reminds me of the old magpul dvd days with two white lights on a rifle. Those where the days

I think the best, bad only, argument against this is ambiguity. I still choose an offset closed emitter because of the holdovers though. Good video, well said as always Mark.

Thanks for the further clarification on this topic. Really smart. Why is the eotech your go-to primary optic?

What about a mount similar to the 3x & 4x swing style mount so if needed push it into place or leave offset? Just saying

I always 45 degree a red dot with scoped rifles are acog rifles, but my eotech rifle it’s setup to have back up Troy irons god forbid the eotech goes out. Haha of course it’s got a dbal and mainly used for nods work so I doubt the irons will ever get used I don’t plan on grabbing that gun for a all out war gun. That would be a the acog with a rmr on a 45 degree to the right side in left handed haha so it like super smooth to tilt the gun slightly and basically have a regular red dot setup . For anything farther than point aiming and less than 50 yards it’s money but the acog is surprisingly good for like 50 yard and farther transitions.. tried a lot of LPVO and in the end stuck with trij acog 4x it’s just the perfect optic for a 556 carbine.

Competition shooters been doing this for a while. Why not just use the offset plate Unity offers for the LPVO? It can be used on the riser as well

Another option would be to instead of using a magnifier, using a prism optic (3x/5x/1x) on a qd. So you take it on and off like a magnifier based on need, but it also has a reticle if your rds battery crashed. Also you can have different zeros. As long as you change your batteries you'll be ok. The idea is to have something analog available.

You can do irons and a red dot in front of your main optic

I have an LCO on an ADM QD riser that makes it the same height as the Unity. I’ve been seriously thinking of sticking a small dot on a lower mount behind the LCO to try out for something like this. With the QD I could rip it off just like I’d have to do to use the irons anyways and have a better sighting system as mentioned.

It's like, why would you use the donut when you could have the full-sized spare.

Why not get the Unity offset red dot arm for the unity tactical riser? They rarely show it off but the screws and hole pattern looks like it matches their LVPO mount.

Where can I find this thing on the handguard which holds the Sling?

Whats a good pen to witness mark screws and stuff with? All my grease pens and sharpies rub off in a day of hard use?

With the fact that the small red dots are now as durable, and as long lasting battery capacity as anything larger, I cannot understand why anyone would choose not to do this. Holding true to this old iron sights ideal seems silly. I even match my green lpvo to a smaller green red dot. Why not?

Offset LPVO to give you a kinesthetic edge in today's dynamic battlespace

Not the first time I have heard this, actually jimsgoonlife gives a very compelling argument for it

Bro, but what about EMPs bro. The EMPs are gonna take down both your dots. #twoworldwars

Why not just go with irons with a lower 1/3 cowitness ?.. That way your sight picture isn't too crowded. It's the same concept as having a red dot on your pistol. Better to have that than 2 optics that could give out from malfunction or batteries. I hated irons for the same reason, but I came back around for practical reasons. Right now I'm running a vortex uh1 with scalarworks peak sights at a lower 1/3 and I have no complaints. I can look over the sights and directly at the reticle or slightly nod my head and be in alignment with the irons. Even if you are looking through the irons, the rear sight is barely visible if you're focusing on the reticle.

More dots the merrier

Backup 45 sight should be non batterie powered fiber optic sights. JS

Random observation: How could you stand there with your back against the deep looking woods for so long without watching your back?

*templar shakes fist* blasphemer!!!! Consistency is key. The future is now. Just wait until someone comes up with a 12’o clock mounted red dot…..

I think the new 1x etched reticle dot from Primary Arms would be a better "back up" for duty use

I have my hand up

I hate the idea that a red dot requires a battery

That’s alot of money for a backup you will probably never need especially with a eotech holographic optic.

I actually prefer iron sights aiming with red dot is too easy... plus the fact their reliable and basically can never fail. It can but it's extremely rare especially if you upgrade to Troy's back up sights since thier made of metals instead of weaker polymers from magpul. Although I do like that magpuls springs up with a click of a button.

Irons don’t fog up.

#twodotgang

What if there is a EMP...........

It's not that hard to shoot with irons, this is getting into LARPing territory. I would go with irons because they are indestructible compared to any red dot. The red dot is to solve a gap for lpvo's for the CQB part that lpvo's suck doing.

Algorithm bump.

Offset optics have been used in 3gun competition for a very long time. What you’re doing isn’t anything new or innovative.. Open division will run dual rds on their shotguns. If you’re just discovering this, you are very late to the party.. lol 😂

I hear you, I really do... However, I respectfully disagree. Running two powered / energy dependent optics for the sake of shooter comfort is like putting two socks on each foot instead of wearing boots... It'll keep you warm and make you feel comfortable, but compared to boots, socks won't offer much protection from a steaming river of shit when you have no choice but to trudge through it... In the event of an EMP attack or other scenario that knocks out all electronic components, what are you gonna rely on for target acquisition if you don't have material backup optics? Hopes and dreams? At that point, you're fucked and your entire weapon just became useless. You said think outside the box brother. Those are outside the box, yet extremely possible scenarios. Just some brain food for you to chew on. I digress. Cheers.

Iron sights fall off and get crushed? Really? When was the last time you saw one crushed?

tell us you’re clueless of firearms and a firefight w/ out telling us you’re clueless about firearms and firefights…