As a resident and EV owner on Kangaroo Island I feel a bit discriminated against by new regulations on our SeaLink ferry service, mainly because I have my battery temp tested and go on last to park at the very front, closest to the back to be “pushed off”! The worst thing is my lovely new Polestar copping the sea spray, the positive is being in pole position to drive off at the other side. See you at the Sydney show!

In 2011, My first car, a 1991 Toyota Celica - spontaneously combusted. This is a year after the engine ceased on the way home from buying it, engine was rebuilt, and had been in use for another 7 months or so. It was a week before Christmas, the fire couldn’t be stopped, and this ICE car took out my parents’ garage and $50k of goods - everything in it in the process. All cars catch fire. We need this crap to stop.

I'm medically retired from Australia's CSIRO in fire research area and 40 years as a volunteer in NSW Rural Fire Service. A great podcast

I drove my Zoe for 4 years. It ALWAYS caught on fire. The Model 3 I drove after that, just *constantly* on fire. And now the Model Y that was just on fire straight from the factory. But seriously, my last burning ICE car I saw two weeks ago. I remember back in August I saw a huge plume of smoke that turned out to be 20km away on the A2 in Austria - a bus caught on fire during driving. Nobody was hurt, and I passed it the next day and there was only some metal ribs and part of the chassis left. Can you *imagine* the news hype if that had been an EV...

I am a Model 3 owner and firefighter in Utah. Thanks for the great discussion. I’ve been more interested in extraction than with fires. Vehicle extraction will change a lot with the construction changes that go along with EVs. I’m really looking forward to seeing dashboard roll in a front casting Model Y.

Wonderful topic. In Australia, all hybrid and Bev vehicles have a blue and white triangle attached to the vehicle's number plate front and back with EV in white letters on a blue background on this triangle shape, so when the emergency services arrive they can see its an electric vehicle and how best to tackle the situation.

The EV fire scare stories are ridiculous, they are everywhere. My dad is constantly sending photos of them. Most of which aren’t even EV’s. When he sends them I just send him the stats along with a picture of an ICE car on fire.

It's so nice to hear and adult conversation around this subject for a change! As an EV driver all I ever get from people is "oh it'll blow up sooner or later". I get sick of it! Ive posted that pdf from EVFiresafe for all my friends to see. I also work in the motor trade and the attitude of other mechanics astounds me, the vast majority I come across either don't want to work on them or are convinced whatever you do will harm you! I will gladly test EV's all day long, I absolutely love them and I think that with time and technology they will only get better, I just wish other humans would do the same and make educated choices instead of relying on social media which is so full of misinformation!

When ICE cars 1st appeared in the UK in 1894, the fire brigade didn't have the apparatus or training to extinguish petrol fires because they really only dealt previously with wood and small quantities of heating oil. It took a decade before they even looked at new specific fire fighting equipment for ICE cars. Same now with EVs. As they become more prevalent, the fire brigade will get new tools, new training and new equipment.

This is an excellent episode. I live a mile away from where 3 died and the father survived in a fire in a flat caused by an e-mobility device. It shocked the whole community. Yet, as with New York, the safety of EVs is what is in question rather than focusing on what devastates families.

Gosh... As brilliant as they are, I don't often have the time to commit to listening to an entire podcast on this channel - sorry, Robert and Team 😔 - but, this one...? Man, I couldn't STOP listening to...!! WOW...! Absolutely fascinating and the numbers - or rather, the 'lack' of them compared to the UK's Media / Social Media reports - left me gobsmacked. I've been 'quoting' the 2022 car fires report from the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency to any commentators claiming "all EVs catch fire"... but, the data on the EV Firesafe website is SO much easier to deal with. This'll now be my "go to" rebuff resource... 😉 Thank you, Robert and Emma for a wonderful hour 🙂

Another great show from the team. I did go and share a timestamped link about the UK carpark fire because I still keep hearing from people saying "it was electric car" 🤬💢

Fire is scary. Saying EVs catch fire, is a scare campaign.

The 12v battery on a Range Rover is on the opposite side of where the fire started. Fire fire started in the very spot those Range Rovers were recalled for fires.

Great show thanks Robert and Emma

I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.

Excellent Teaching Observations and record keeping, thank you.

Oh, you're behind the times Robert. Now it's all about BEVs not working in the winter. I guess it's all about the other end of the heat scale now. 😊 Fascinating video, btw. 👍

Good information. Thank you.

Bjorn Nyland went to Copenhagen and did an interesting interview on his channel with the city's fire chief. They have developed some simple tools and procedures to deal with fires in car sized EVs which all go to reduce the 'scariness' of an incident, rare as they may be.

Could the database expand to include all vehicle types (busses, trains, semis, planes and even ships) because any kind of vehicle can catch fire for any number of reasons, right ? Thank you, as always, for solid unbiased information

Emma race tracks in Aotearoa are banning electric vehicles. In Feilding the Manfeild race track banned electric bikes on the open days. For "safety" reasons, and apparently nothing to do with a Energica kicking ice bottom. Same bike banned for being too fast at Meremere Dragway. Help. No me but all down under.

EV fires were even noted on the Weekend Update on SNL this past weekend. Of course they joke that you could use the battery fire to keep warm since EVs can't be charged in extreme cold. I live in Canada and I've never encountered this issue, but the media latches on to these stories because EV stories draw eyeballs right now.

The two things firefighters dread the most, dead bodies and fires they can't extinguish.

Thanks Robert, this was great and very much needed! 👍👍👍 I actually remember very well Emma’s PHEV getting burnt by the bush fire. The fire “mania” is absolutely out of control right now here in Australia. It’s pathetic. I might also add that a friend lost his car AND caravan when his diesel SUV caught fire.

Don't demonise e bikes too much, in the future very few people will be able to afford an electric car, then there's the insurance! The vast majority of journeys in the hoped for low emission future will be on electric public transport or e bikes. I've owned an ebike since 2019, granted it's as tough as old boots, the battery is stored within the frame and the pack is also in a metal enclosure. A lot of the fires are down to people not using the correct charger or putting in a battery the device isn't rated for, mistakenly thinking they'll go faster etc. The other huge mistake is charging bikes overnight and even worse, doing this in a hallway that cuts off access to the one means of escape, especially prevalent in flats. Sadly like most things in life, a minority is demonising something wonderful that the majority could benefit from. There is a covered bike store outside my building but I don't trust my neighbours and there's no charging available. That bike has changed my life in multiple fantastic ways, I'd love to see more people having this freedom.

11:22Got to love a presenter who has a guest on the program and blocks them out for two minutes straight with a personal monologue.

Such a great podcast very informative, thanks and keep up the great work.

Brilliant,thank you for presentation and stats.

Awesome info. Thanks.

Very impressed with both the evfiresafe website and particularly Emma Sutcliffe.

Nice Interview ! Good Work !

The world needs more people like Emma.

Thanks for the nudge: I’ve unplugged the 2 electric scooters in my garage

Made my day Emma! And its wear orange SES national day - 22 May 2024. Much gratitude for all emergency responders, secondary, volunteers. Thanks to you and all tireless citizen and expert scientists who quietly compile data and dis-spell fearful myths. A brilliant global service. A sweet fact to love, "We are more likely to be saved by our neighbours in times of crisis." Keep waving 👋 your hand at govts to listen. Def. expect more push the randoms to get proper traction. Ps YT isn't all rubbish hey? Hugs to you both. Great show.

The fire report for the Luton airport carpark has still not been published so how do you know what vehicle caused it.

This was excellent, exactly the quality content that I love and appreciate from Fully Charged!! 👏

I think robert should review the UK Gov paper on EV fires and proposals for changes to enclosed car parks. They recognise there is a problem

Useful video, many thanks.

Luton airport was a diesel hybrid. Watch the video, ferocious flames down and sideways. Only lithium batteries burn like this. If you were on top of your game, you would be asking why this was covered up and by whom. No EVs there? Look again at the violent collapse of the floor. Nothing but a lithium fire could have generated the heat and ferocity to do sudden damage like that.

Great interview as ever, really important to fight back against the FUD and emotional arguments from people with little actual knowledge who are being manipulated.

Great to discuss EV fire risk with someone who understands the issue. 👏👏

I always see the people going on about EV fires in China and how we're not hearing about it because of censorship. Does your database have access to this information? I'd love to point those people to it if it does.

Great discussion, thanks

Sorry, when is the EV show in Melbourne , I forgot the date ?????

Very good discussion. Emma's a natural communicator. Fully expect to see this sensible research plastered over the front pages of the RW press in the coming days.

This was excellent talk. Will visit the website mentioned and see if there is opportunity I can volunteer for the effort. One bit, there were lots of figures/numbers/statistics discussed. Please edit the video to include these as visual graphs/pics. am assuming the website already has most of this. Thank you for this excellent effort.

They skated around the subject, but are LFP batteries less likely to catch fire than NCM, or not? Clearly Emma didn't want to discuss this and I want to know why. Everything will burn if you subject it to enough heat, so it's not very helpful to say that all EV batteries will burn. My understanding is that the electrolyte in LFP batteries is non flammable and that, although, it is possible to get LFP batteries into thermal runaway, it needs to be subjected to intense heat from an external source, unlike NCM, which can be self-igniting. Also, the number of cells in Emma's Tesla was mentioned, but there was no mention of whether or not that is a factor in starting a fire. Intuitively, a Tesla with thousands of battery connections to, potentially, short out, is more likely to catch fire than, say, an MG4 that has 104 cells and 208 connections. What does the data show us?

Long time admirer & viewer. It would be great to see different voices, different opinions. To further our come cause for a cleaner future.

I wish the self proclaimed “auto expert” John Cadogan could have watched this and actually learned something. He is one of these individuals that is really “worried” about electric car fires.

25:25: The fire on the ferry was between Oslo and Copenhagen or Kiel.. The fire did not start the converted EV, but in the schoku wall plug overheated and and the extentions cord caught fire. The fire spread from there. And the battery did not catch fire (and it was not lithium batteries) In other words, the converted EV was all good. It was the wall plug or the extention cord that was the problem... At the time a lot of people thought that schoku could handle 16A over time. The reality is more around 6-8A. As of today, you are not allowed boiler to a schoku of the boiler uses more than 6.5A...

The high voltage in an electric car is not connected to the frame of the car in any way. So you would have to find a positive wire and a negative wire and touch them both at the same time to get a shock. And since it is DC you would get third degree burns but it probably won’t stop your heart like AC would. They said this in the video. I just felt it was worth repeating.

I am old enough to remember when catalytic converters were added to ICE, there were a few cases of hot converters starting fires when the cars were parked on dry grass. There were only a few, yet the coverage in the media was as if these cars were exploding at a random on a daily basis. Londoners will remember that the MB 'bendy-buses' were regularly catching fire, again these were diesel buses. These stories are just manna from heaven for tabloid hacks wanting to fill a page. I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager most of the tragedies with e-scooters catching fire involve scooters that are cheap imports, sold online and without the appropriate BSI / CE testing and certification. It was the same with 'hoverboards' a few years ago.

It’s 15 months here in the US & 12 driving a Tesla. Would love to share the experience, all around. Including some serious challenges, and some amazing benefits of EVs, as I experienced. On my own I document my experiences in short videos & try my best to share my learning with others.

The Luton airport airport Range Rover fire was my friends next door neighbour. It had an electrical smoke from the dash before he got there but then it stopped smoking he carried on to the airport. As we all know it caught fire in the car park. He got his case out, called the fire brigade and airport security but then left it to book in for his holiday. He didn’t make his holiday 😂💀

Those who own one won't and can't face it because they are in it up to their necks and those who don't have one, have the luxury of unbiased observation and the longterm in which the truth is proven out.

The London bus fires seem to have captured the anti-EV crowd. Except i looked it up and there's already a huge number of non-EV bus fires in London each year.

What a great resource to have available. I can’t help but think this should’ve been started earlier, but better late than never.

29:56 It's not hard to get a lithium ion battery into thermal runaway. A puncture or improper protection/charging circuit can do it easily.

46:52 Even if these fires are being caused by the scrapyard using forklifts, that's a big problem. Scrapyards are a firefighters nightmare. EV batteries should probably have their own waste stream instead of going to a standard wrecking yard. More work needs to be done in the area of lithium battery disposal.

This is one of the best chats I’ve heard. Not just because the guest is an Aussie but because there is no BS and data based info on a subject that the TROLLS are spewing so much lately. Thank you so much. Will be sharing.

@37:24 "One was ..." I dont understand the word, please help me. Thanks

I have an eBike though it uses Li-Go batteries which are ridiculously safe. You can send them on a plane easily. I got it imported from Murica via Bike Friday Alternatively, you need to spend at least £1500 on a new ebike to get a safe one. The stuff that costs £300 is incredibly suspect. I wouldn't want an escooter at such a price too however the UK government is basically forcing people to buy the cheaper, rubbish ones that don't have any quality control Given escooters are banned aside from ride sharing schemes, and you risk them being confiscated, it's meant that people with the means to buy a decent scooter end up buying cheap ones that are a fire hazard as there's a chance the police will seize it That has also meant that various train operators have banned escooters too. Escooters would make an excellent last mile vehicle, but due to government inaction, and people obviously wanting them, even people with means end up buying the cheaper stuff if they want it Personally, the fire risk of the cheap ones is too much of a risk. But they could ensure that only escooters purchased from approved suppliers would be allowed.

434 fires globally out of over 10.2 million EV cars on the road. I'd take those odds.

People use millions of smartphones. There is often more than 1 smartphone per household. Often they are on couch or bed. One failure and everything burns down. Take into consideration that mobile phone batteries are much more strained. And much less protected and cooled than car batteries. An yet there is fear asymmetry. Something that can burn us in sleep is well tolerated. Something other, much better protected against rough handling (car battery) is a scarecrow for us.

Petrol car fire videos never go viral, they dont fit the story.

Emma -- so if you're extracting a person from an EV, and the person is wedged by the steering wheel, can you safely cut the frame below the A-pillar before using hydraulic jaws? You said the battery is disconnected when the air bags deploy... How far back does that go? Does that mean high voltage cables running through the frame (I should say those may be mythical) are no longer dangerous, and the frame can be cut to make enlarging an opening easier?

A useful discussion and thank-you for accepting that fires can happen in any vehicle and it has to be dealt with according to type, even if it is 1 in 10,000.

Robert & Co have you heard about the CCS & CHAdeMO adapter, I have seen one on Dala's EV repair KZfaq channel

Morning all

I agree, cheaply built electric “vehicles” like these low cost toy scooters, skateboards, hoverboards and bicycles are accidents waiting to happen. Yet I see them EVERYWHERE here in California. I’ve seen them burning on KZfaq everyday, but all I see them do everyday in real life is zip young people all over the place! Traffic does not slow them. Sidewalks and bike trails cut their commutes down significantly. There’s a KID around here that regularly smokes brand new muscle cars off traffic lights on a spindly electric mountain bike. Short pants. T-shirt. BMX helmet. Young people (as far as I can tell) seem to be adopting these things willy nilly. They are easily storable and chargeable in any domicile so… MAKE THEM SAFE. INSPECT THEM. MAKE MANUFACTURERS ACCOUNTABLE. TRAIN CONSUMERS ON CARE, OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE. Love this channel! Thanks guys!🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

Where can we find data for combustion car fires?

Remember who benefits from all those negetive stories... ;)

Having worked machinery, any mechanical stuff can catch fire if it gets hot enough and has something to burn next to it. Ice vehicles catch fire but it's rarely the storage, same as ev. But many similarities are there, accidents, electric, hot components, and of course arson etc. It's important on both sides making comparisons that actual vehicle fires are rare, but lack of maintenance, dodgy repairs, poor modifications, and, of course, rodents! All of these come with old age, and most EV vehicles have got all this to come.

Tesla do a great job in developing batteries and the casing that houses them to reduce the risk of fire, however they do catch fire. Envision also do well for Nissan. But BYD, along with Electric bikes and scooters seem about as safe as a stick of dynamite. With videos in the numbers on bikes and scooters going up, BYD have a wonderful mix of either going up in smoke, or large parts of the car dropping off. I recently watched a video covering the safety of Lithium Ion batteries, and the two things that is clear, the highly toxic fumes and smoke given off equate to a typical ICE car having done 40k miles, and there is currently no practical method for fire fighters to extinguish Lithium Ion battery fires. What's that about water and electricity should never mix?

People seem to have forgot when Samsungs and Toshibas devices with batteries used to catch fire. I owned both brands and never had any battery related issue.

It is a bit funny that someone on KZfaq won’t talk to anyone that says “A person on KZfaq said.” I know EVs don’t start on fire so I’m glad there’s a link to her work. I want to use it.

OH yea its in Sydney.

0:35: 🔥 Discussion on EV fires and statistical research by Emma Sutcliffe. 5:12: 🔥 Discussion about social media influence on electric vehicle safety and the speaker's background. 10:04: 🔥 Discussion about the transition from research to consulting and training in the global context of electric vehicle safety. 14:46: 🔥 Discussion about the dangers of personal mobility devices and the risk of fire hazards. 19:37: 🔥 Discussion about the safety of electric vehicles and the incidence of fires involving e-bikes and e-scooters. 24:32: 🔥 Discussion about recent electric vehicle fires and their implications. 29:28: 🔥 Discussion on electric vehicle fires and battery fires. 34:16: 🔥 Discussion about car fires and managing differences in fire incidents. 39:02: ⚡ The risk of electrocution in electric vehicles is very low. There is a small potential for battery fires, but it is a risk with any car. 43:46: 🔥 Discussing the impact of traumatic events on emergency responders and the importance of their comfort with electric vehicles. 48:47: 🔥 Discussion about the dangers of electric vehicle technology and the need for secondary responders. 53:10: 🔥 The speaker acknowledges the size of Australia and the perspective on fire statistics for electric cars versus petrol cars. 58:03: 🔥 Discussion on electric vehicle safety, training, and tracking of electric buses and trucks. Recapped using Tammy AI

I am looking at EV's but can't find any information about what type of EV Lithium batteries are safer than others. Am I wrong to be looking for a car using Lithium Iron Phosphate ? What are the Kona Pouch cells, my old remote control helicopter burned due to its pouch cell, I am sure they are much better than those. LiFePo NMC Lithium Pouch etc. Great site and data, and a fantastic discussion.

It sounds to me that a pdf/online app, with all makes and models of EV that can easily be updated, would be a logical next step so any/all fire/rescue departments know what to do and not do in a ev fire/rescue situation should be the next thing to do. A alphabetically sorted list of maker then models (with pictures) that have the basic instructions how to deal with them in a variety of emergencies would be small enough that every rescue worker in the world can have it on their phone or tablet and read in a page or two how to act, surely a app developer could make that happen rather quickly if you asked them to and gave them the data. We have the technology …. it´s up to you to make it happen.

I'm too busy putting out fires on my two EVs to comment on here.....

In the last few days BYD have already announced they are to move away from pouch cells in favour of prismatic cells for safety.

Is Emma coming tonFCL Sydney?

This brings up the general "confounding factors" in statistics. Simplistically, say a person takes a paracetamol and is later run down by a bus. While their death is logically caused by the accident with the bus, the fact that they were on medication must be reported to the medicines regulatory body, in case the medication has an influence on the accident. If an EV goes on fire, it need not have been the battery which initiated the fire.

Thank you Emma. This was incredibly informative and provided useful facts to rebut the 💩 memes and posts on social media

You should have had three way with "Geoff Buys Cars". Controversy sells. Great interview. It is great that someone is actually looking at car fires scientifically rather than hysterically. Maybe the BBC could learn something?

27:00 The Prius uses NiMH batteries. They can go into thermal runaway at the end of charge because the voltage drops once the battery is fully charged. The charger must not have been monitoring the battery temperature either.

I think we need more of what Emma is trying to do - get the detail. It's not helpful to anyone to just blame anything with a battery for fires, we need to get as much data as possible so we can identify where the problems really are. It does seem that smaller batteries are more prone, but we need to know if this is because they are used in cheaper products and so are of lower quality. or are they of a particular type? Would there be as many electric bike fires if the batteries in electric bikes were of the same type and quality used by the likes of Tesla/Mercedes/BMW etc. Cheap electrical anything has always been more prone to fire - wall warts and phone chargers for instance.

Here in US between 600 and 700 ICE cars catch fire every single day. Doesn't include large truck fires, gas station fires, natural gas fires, refinery fires.

Was the bus a hybrid ?

No mention of the two electric buses that burnt out in London recently (Wimbledon and Woolwich) on two consecutive days?

It's really amazing how you heroes jet around the globe saving the climate for us ebikers we thank you sincerely 😂

Very interesting again. Thanks everybody. Can anyone help re “Liking” the podcasts on IOS which is how I generally listen to this show. TIA.

EV battery fires are harder to extinguish than an ICE vehicle fire. It's just a fact. Stop trying to deny it. Of course any vehicle can catch fire, it's the speed and intensity of the fire and what can be done about it that is the issue. We need to use the safest chemistry available.

What make us RC Model flyers "laugh" is that all the lessons and awarenes we gained back in the late 90's early 00's regarding charging and use of lithium ion batteries seems to have been com;pletely ignored by questionable importers of E-Bikes and scooters.

I remember chatitng to some local firefighters in cornwall in 2012 do you know what to do in the event of an EV fire and he said no!! are you about to start training, no.

Kryton you can try to debunk the ev fires as much as you like but most people wont risk charging an ev car in the garage when their family are sleeping upstairs... A thermal runaway would be devastating!

Would you make a ship sail against the wind by lighting a fire beneath the deck?

It makes me laugh how Australians shorten so many things. Bushy, Firey, Arvo, Ambo, Sanga, Bottle-o, Daks (somehow trousers) etc.