The Edison Diamond Disc Record

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Larry's Vintage Audio & Vinyl

Larry's Vintage Audio & Vinyl

10 жыл бұрын

The Edison Disc, also known as a Diamond Disc record, was a type of audio disc record marketed by Edison Records from 1912 to 1929. They were known as Diamond Discs because the reproducer fitted to the matching Edison disc player was fitted with a diamond stylus.
80 RPM 'Diamond Disc' records. Note the thickness of each record.
Edison had previously concentrated on producing phonograph cylinders but decided to get into the disc market due to the increasing market share of disc sound recordings, especially the discs of companies such as Victor Talking Machine Company (the format of which would evolve into "78 records"). Victor and most other disc record companies used side to side or lateral motion of the stylus in the record groove, whereas in the Edison system the movement was up and down or vertical (also known as "hill-and-dale" motion), as in a cylinder record. An Edison Disc Phonograph is distinguished by the diaphragm of the reproducer being located parallel to the disc surface. The Victor (or similar) diaphragm is located at a right angles to the surface of the disc such that the diaphragm is more or less parallel to the groove.
The grooves on an Edison Disc are smooth on the sides and have a variable depth. Standard lateral discs will have a more constant depth, but the sides of the groove are scalloped. As the Edison groove pitch (or "TPI", i.e. "threads per inch") was 150, a much finer grooving than that on lateral discs, Edison's 10-inch discs played considerably longer than Victor's or Columbia's -- up to nearly five minutes per side. The Edison Disc is also ¼-inch thick (supposedly to prevent warping), and was filled with wood flour, and later, china clay.[1]
Victor's system could not play Edison Discs as the needles used would cut through the recorded sound, and the Edison system could not play Victor or other lateral discs unless one used special equipment, like the Kent adapter. There is an example of a device to play Edison discs on a Victor machine.[2] The Brunswick Ultona and the Sonora Phonograph were the only machines besides the Diamond Disc player that could play Diamond Discs, but Edison made an attempt at curbing this (a phonograph/gramophone that could play Edison, Victor/lateral 78s, and Pathé discs) by stating "This Re-Creation should not be played on any instrument except the Edison Diamond Disc Phonograph and with the Edison Diamond Disc Reproducer, and we decline responsibility for any damage that may occur to it if this warning is ignored.

Пікірлер: 106
@TeteFutuito
@TeteFutuito 9 жыл бұрын
what i found about diamond discs when i was a young lad, was that if you play them back using a stereo pickup, on a matrix surround setting, and then only select the rear speakers to play, it sounds amazingly crystal clear.
@amberola1b560
@amberola1b560 10 жыл бұрын
On the black etched label records, the reason one side has no label or info is because if the flip side was a classical our opera piece, the blank label side was a spoken description of what was on the other side, telling about the composer our piece of music that was being played
@RobSchofield
@RobSchofield 27 күн бұрын
I've found 7 of these disks in my Dad's collection and had no idea how to play them - thanks!
@Genny164
@Genny164 9 жыл бұрын
I just picked up a stack of about 15 of these in an old estate sale for $5 for the lot. Haven't cleaned them up or looked through all the titles yet, but this video was great to find out some history about them. I bought them for photography props. :)
@luismantaras6460
@luismantaras6460 6 жыл бұрын
Your turntable is a beauty!! And complete with 78 speed! Thank you
@zaimkarii1756
@zaimkarii1756 3 жыл бұрын
Diamond disc play at 80 RPM
@reginaldbowls7180
@reginaldbowls7180 9 жыл бұрын
Hmm I was looking up Edison's Diamond discs and I came across this video. I really liked it.
@annalennon3175
@annalennon3175 8 жыл бұрын
i was too
@PopWrappedEntGroup
@PopWrappedEntGroup 3 ай бұрын
It sounds remarkable for its age. 😮
@fromthesidelines
@fromthesidelines 7 жыл бұрын
"My Wonderful You" was also known as "Girl of My Dreams" {with different lyrics}.
@unclejosh4935
@unclejosh4935 6 жыл бұрын
Uncle Josh, aka Your Uncle Josh With Edison diamond discs you must be extra careful not to get any(!) water on the edges as the disc's core will be compromised (i.e., the core will begin to dissolve. The surfaces are relatively indestructible but always wipe following the grooves. Although the original Edison disc sleeves instructed the listener to clean his/her discs using only isopropyl alcohol, I have found that this leaves a residue. Better to use Dishwasher (trademark) brand (their formula type without alcohol) being extremely careful to not get any of the fluid on the edge or into any existing lamination cracks (found so often at the outer edges on the earliest Edison discs, 1912-circa 1916 - the early half-tone etched labels.) Used this formula [I am not affiliated with Dishwasher) and technique on several hundred such discs as a professional early sound recordings archivist for over 25 years.
@toneyisaiah3556
@toneyisaiah3556 Жыл бұрын
Those records are very interesting and they are very thick.
@taylorlukens8486
@taylorlukens8486 4 жыл бұрын
you do know that to play a diamond disc you need a special edison diamond disc player right, because the grooves are up and down instead of side to side.
@Al3ixhoveutot
@Al3ixhoveutot 3 жыл бұрын
I’ll maybe arrive late but the nowdays record players have needles that go side to side and up and down, this was preferd so We could use stereo. So, aside of damaging a lot the needle because of wideness, you don’t need one for it
@pip5528
@pip5528 Жыл бұрын
You can just use a standard stereo cartridge and reverse the hot pins on a modern electric turntable.
@toneyisaiah8505
@toneyisaiah8505 5 жыл бұрын
I used to collect them when I was a young boy.
@johnnyjames7139
@johnnyjames7139 3 жыл бұрын
Theatre organist Gaylord Carter often included this piece in his Flicker Fingers presentations, so I am familiar with the melody but had not heard the lyrics.
@dennman6
@dennman6 11 ай бұрын
What silent movie did Gaylord Carter use this in? I've seen many of his "film concerts" as he called them, and I don't recall this tune specifically.
@robfriedrich2822
@robfriedrich2822 6 жыл бұрын
I read, that the paper label Diamond Discs will be played with a 1950's N78 stylus (65 µm) and the etched with a micro groove stylus (25 µm).
@scootron2000
@scootron2000 6 жыл бұрын
That sounds really great for an Edison record. Very clear. And this was just a standard needle?
@theedisonman5518
@theedisonman5518 7 жыл бұрын
I have just started THE EDISON MAN KZfaq channel, on which you will find music that Thomas Edison himself hated. Somehow it got issued!
@kevmichael2064
@kevmichael2064 8 ай бұрын
Can Can era...1800-1920....old west days... amazing to hear a song recorded over 150 years ago...😅...it is also to survive in great condition!!!
@ronalddaub5049
@ronalddaub5049 4 жыл бұрын
I've had the engraved ones before and I still got two of them pick a chicken one step is one side
@dirtydog6983
@dirtydog6983 7 жыл бұрын
Is it ok to use a 78 rpm cartrige to play these. such as the ortopone 2M 78 plug and play.
@toneyisaiah8505
@toneyisaiah8505 5 жыл бұрын
Caution is required when cleaning78 rpms.
@ksteiger
@ksteiger 6 жыл бұрын
Would you like to know why this record sounds so bad? It's because the grooves are being played back at the wrong angle. The grooves are modulated vertically not horizontally. So to play back these records properly you need a specially designed pickup to compensate for that. The modern cartridge is designed to work horizontally not vertically.
@toneyisaiah8505
@toneyisaiah8505 5 жыл бұрын
Since I have a direct driven turntable that plays 33/1\3, 45 rpms &78s. I can speed up or slow down.
@joesjunkyard935
@joesjunkyard935 5 жыл бұрын
Whats the needle setup,and headstcok set up. i have same record player
@mrmjb1960
@mrmjb1960 5 жыл бұрын
They call those One.Sided.records,usually the other side has Print info of.where the record was pressed at.
@comedyshorts2
@comedyshorts2 3 жыл бұрын
Have you posted the one label sided Edison? I'd like to hear both sides since I collect classical. It looks like a pre WW1 pressing. I could not read the title but reverse will describe the singer.
@harryoakley
@harryoakley 6 жыл бұрын
Not enough weight on the tone arm and if you eliminate the horizontal signal it will also sound a lot better....
@timliebrockpuzzles
@timliebrockpuzzles 7 жыл бұрын
Whats the earliest # you have? I've got 2567 but cant seem to find any records even close to that. Closest I've seen is in the 8000's
@bethrussell663
@bethrussell663 9 жыл бұрын
Greetings from Everett WA. I have a dozen of these records, several of them as seperating from the center core. Is there anyway to repair this? I was thinking of taking some wood glue, try to get it under the recordings and put under a stack of books for press the recordings back down to the core layer. Any suggestions?
@comedyshorts2
@comedyshorts2 8 жыл бұрын
It depends on how far it is separated. A heavy weight could crack the playing surface. If slight, I use Elmer's Wood Glue Max to seal the DD to prevent any more damage.
@kraftpr
@kraftpr 10 жыл бұрын
Do you have to set the turntable to a special setting for vertical groove records?
@artshifrin3053
@artshifrin3053 10 жыл бұрын
If a stereo cartridge is wired conventionally, then the accommodation can be made AFTER the signal has been digitized AS IF the disk were stereo. Assuming that the audio program that you have offers an INVERT tool, then simply invert (which does not mean reverse) EITHER of the two channels. The results can be further refined (when listening to a 1:1 mono mix) by tweaking either level of the two channels. Simply adjust one until the lowest noise level results. Differently sized and shaped styli in different cartridges will often produce different 'best' results via different relative level channel settings. I don't mean this as an oxymoron. I'm referring to subjective balances between noise and a recorded signal. When playing vertical grooves as it they're lateral, the relative level setting can be set by tuning for loudest noise and lowest signal. When that's been achieved, then just 'flip' the mode from lateral to vertical. The opposite works for lateral grooves. Just as with the above example, twiddle until you get the most noise and lowest signal, and then 'flip' the mode from vertical to lateral. For so called compatible grooves (in which the recording stylus undulated on some diagonal plane) choose which sounds best: 1) completely one channel 2) or completely the other channel 3) or some vectored setting I hope that this in-depth reply does not comprise hijacking Larry's posting. That was and is not my intent. I'm just sharing information. I just don't yet have the time to produce splendid videos such as what Larry did on his informative and impressive presentation.
@ksteiger
@ksteiger 6 жыл бұрын
It's still 45 degrees off even with this method.
@thisoldchevy2371
@thisoldchevy2371 5 жыл бұрын
You can’t play these on a conventional player
@leowagner1366
@leowagner1366 5 жыл бұрын
In the head shell on the end of the tonearm, you switch to green and red wires around to play these records.
@DixiesNewSong
@DixiesNewSong 2 жыл бұрын
@@thisoldchevy2371 You can you just need a stereo cartridge with a 78 rpm stylus
@paulds1580
@paulds1580 Жыл бұрын
Those are vertically cut records and should be played with an Edicon reproducer, not on any modern phonograph which plays laterally cut records.
@hokusman100
@hokusman100 6 ай бұрын
I have that exact turntable. I’m super curious what stylus you’re using for the vertically cut Diamond Disc
@digidoridvideos3672
@digidoridvideos3672 6 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure they are using LP stylus. Edison Diamond Disc groove size are similar to LP microgroove records.
@bobbyroy84
@bobbyroy84 6 жыл бұрын
I Have a Instrumental version of the great song "Wonderful One"! It`s one of the very few songs that chokes Me up! Mine has a very Melancholy Atmosphere to it!
@OrangeHarrisonRB3
@OrangeHarrisonRB3 8 жыл бұрын
Is that three of the same album in the back? A Sextuple Fantasy, if you will.
@pyroskelethor1562
@pyroskelethor1562 4 жыл бұрын
I have a real player at my house, Jesus Christ it’s so much weight on the record it’s like a brick
@jordeneldridge4585
@jordeneldridge4585 4 жыл бұрын
I've got a Edison diamond disc recreation
@neilmansfield8329
@neilmansfield8329 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this good 78 rpm record.Can you get it on. CD or officially on digital download?
@johncarpenter624
@johncarpenter624 4 жыл бұрын
It is an 80 rpm reproduction, not a 78 rpm record.
@beez1717
@beez1717 3 жыл бұрын
Could you potentially buy a stylus that converted the hills and dales to side to side type frequency properly?
@ohger1
@ohger1 7 ай бұрын
It's not the stylus, it's the cartridge. You'd have to at minimum turn the cartridge 90 degrees and install a needle with the shaft bent into a right angle bend.
@randomperson7443
@randomperson7443 21 күн бұрын
Not that i know of, even though a regular stereo stylus will already pick up on hill and dale grooves, just not as well as it picks up side to side. What i usually do is rearrange the cartridge wires diagonally, it makes diamond discs sound much better.
@johncarpenter624
@johncarpenter624 4 жыл бұрын
Was that Spencer who sang there?
@Jimmy-lm2eg
@Jimmy-lm2eg 7 жыл бұрын
wait the music on edison diamond disc was from wall e?
@arifakyuz7673
@arifakyuz7673 7 жыл бұрын
Randy Newman's music was mainly based on ragtime.
@brandendeysel6506
@brandendeysel6506 3 жыл бұрын
What sort of cartridge is that?
@bobskie321
@bobskie321 8 жыл бұрын
1:47 Because you're using a standard stereo needle does it mean that Edison diamond disc don't need a 3 mil stylus commonly used on 78 lateral cut shellac disc? The sound quality is good despite you're using an LP stylus (2:37).
@esroberto1
@esroberto1 8 жыл бұрын
No. The groove is MUCH more narrow on an Edison DD than lateral 78s. It's closer to the width of an LP groove.
@Aintry1
@Aintry1 9 жыл бұрын
What tracking force are you using?
@martinda7446
@martinda7446 2 жыл бұрын
6oz
@toneyisaiah3556
@toneyisaiah3556 Жыл бұрын
You have to get a special cartridge for them, correct?
@rodneyjohnson7958
@rodneyjohnson7958 5 жыл бұрын
Just out of curiosity can you play Modern records on that too
@ZeusTheTornado
@ZeusTheTornado 5 жыл бұрын
Of course, look at how many styly (stylus-es) he has on the left.
@terranortgaming
@terranortgaming 8 жыл бұрын
i found two
@benjaminwallace5644
@benjaminwallace5644 6 жыл бұрын
Seeing that you have a lp120, how were you able to get it to spin at 80 rpm?
@ZeusTheTornado
@ZeusTheTornado 5 жыл бұрын
With the pitch control
@thisoldchevy2371
@thisoldchevy2371 5 жыл бұрын
Diamond discs cannot be played on a standard turntable! They had a specifically designed player for them. Playing these on a modern turntable can damage them and the the record. The original player needed to apply a direct downforce to the record. The damage has already been done but just a heads up (I’m assuming you don’t know this)
@saintmichael1779
@saintmichael1779 4 жыл бұрын
Yes. Lateral vs. vertical.
@martinda7446
@martinda7446 2 жыл бұрын
This is not a concern. Modern cartridges have high compliance in all directions including up and down. The original Edison diamond played at a very heavy weight to get maximum volume and there is simply no way a modern lightweight stylus would damage this disc. Only issue would be dimensional and with hill and dale this doesn't matter much anyway. So for anyone interested in playing these don't worry at all.
@bevisfaversham2669
@bevisfaversham2669 5 жыл бұрын
you should never use any water
@timsundell9820
@timsundell9820 4 жыл бұрын
one of mine record has no text it all
@twhuning6352
@twhuning6352 6 жыл бұрын
1 mil is not 1mm. It is .001 (1/1000) inch.
@SKTRRBY
@SKTRRBY 2 жыл бұрын
I can play it but I need to clean it
@SuspenseESCAPEremastered
@SuspenseESCAPEremastered 3 жыл бұрын
I have about three dozen diamond disc records in sleeves, always in my family - Does anyone want them?
@seanorr1834
@seanorr1834 3 жыл бұрын
Yes! Where are you located?
@jaysvintagerecordsandphono6184
@jaysvintagerecordsandphono6184 6 жыл бұрын
my record store sells them for 50c a peice
@davidlogansr8007
@davidlogansr8007 5 жыл бұрын
Records where are you? I will buy them all if you're close enough. I am in Pennsylvania
@danielbeller972
@danielbeller972 5 жыл бұрын
Three copies of Milk and Honey?
@antiangelofmusic
@antiangelofmusic 9 жыл бұрын
Isn't that record a 78? That table only has 33 and 45.
@Aintry1
@Aintry1 9 жыл бұрын
No it doesn't. It has a 78 rpm option and can be ramped up to 80 rpm if necessary.
@antiangelofmusic
@antiangelofmusic 8 жыл бұрын
38?
@DoojeenDoonican
@DoojeenDoonican 7 жыл бұрын
I was wondering the same as Anti - how is it switched over to 78?
@arifakyuz7673
@arifakyuz7673 7 жыл бұрын
You push both the 33 and 48 rpm buttons to put it on 78.
@martinda7446
@martinda7446 2 жыл бұрын
This is an 80rpm disc.
@tinovanderzwanphonocave544
@tinovanderzwanphonocave544 4 жыл бұрын
ooooh!! you said the bad word in cleaning these!!! one rule only in 78rpm and diamond disc cleaning NEVER USE ALCOHOL!!!! it kills them!!! this video is a no-use in any historicaL format!!
@Tojazzer
@Tojazzer 6 жыл бұрын
You obviously have access to the internet but you couldn't find out how to clean an Edison disc? NEVER use water.
@OlavARod
@OlavARod 4 жыл бұрын
I don’t have any of these and I know that water is nope but I am wondering what happens when you use water
@ZeusTheTornado
@ZeusTheTornado 4 жыл бұрын
@@OlavARod I've read it warps the disc. Probably messes up the grooves as well.
@robturner3065
@robturner3065 Ай бұрын
You need to disable the comments on this vid, they are a rat's nest of misinformation
@FlyingV555
@FlyingV555 6 жыл бұрын
You need a specific needle to play an Edison diamond disc.
@creativity.studio4967
@creativity.studio4967 5 жыл бұрын
They use diamond needles specifically designed for Edison diamond discs. A regular needle for 78s will ruin an Edison diamond disc.
@marguskiis7711
@marguskiis7711 6 жыл бұрын
Edison ruined himself his superior system with his stupid business decisions. Soemway his system was used again for stereo vinyls.
@TheMaxx111
@TheMaxx111 6 жыл бұрын
Edison had some bad taste in music...argh!
@robfriedrich2822
@robfriedrich2822 6 жыл бұрын
Well it seemed to be like the Tefifon phono tape cartridge - no famous artists.
@creativity.studio4967
@creativity.studio4967 5 жыл бұрын
Edison diamond discs tend to not have any of the popular jazz artists at the time. Diamond discs appealed to mostly the rural farmer types, who tended to be uneducated and without much culture and taste or style.
@hamoohead
@hamoohead 6 жыл бұрын
You are ruining these by using water to clean them. You should only use pure isopropyl alchohol.
@FlyingV555
@FlyingV555 6 жыл бұрын
hamoohead like game cartridges?
@andrewlittleboy8532
@andrewlittleboy8532 6 жыл бұрын
If they're made from shellac, ipa will dissolve them. Never use ipa on 78's. Deionised water only, not tap water.
@hamoohead
@hamoohead 6 жыл бұрын
Andrew Littleboy, I am a serious collector. I am very aware how to care for 78s. Edison Diamond Discs are not shellac. Water ruins them. Look things up before you comment.
@sewell2777
@sewell2777 6 жыл бұрын
hamoohead Alcohol ruins them. Water does not. While distilled water is best, you also need something gentle to break through years of grease accumulation. Believe it or not, having worked closely with record archives in both museums and broadcasting houses, distilled water and an un-moisturising, un-scented soap are used. One archivist even uses a gentle dish soap which I might say does an excellent job at cleaning, returning the sheen and leaving no residue behind. It is even great at cleaning the labels using it diluted with hardly any abrasion. I suppose each person has their own technique and whomever owns the records can clean them how they like, however, having seen many national archives using the above method, it must account for something!
@hamoohead
@hamoohead 6 жыл бұрын
Sewell 27 you are flat wrong. Edison sold isopropyl alcohol with his phonographs to be used as record cleaner. If you use anything but alcohol on Edison diamond discs, the sawdust or clay core will swell and cause de-lamination starting at the edges. Stop ruining your Edison discs with water. Save soapy water for shellac.
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