False dichotomy, my sibling.

Everyone praises God by living a holy life, but throwing your hands in the air, like any form of private devotion, is helpful for some but not others. I’m a little too far towards the introverted end of the spectrum to do it, but I don’t begrudge anyone for expressing their love for God in a visible way, so long as they are not doing it TO be seen.

William Glenn yes !! Dr. Ralph Martin Renewal Ministries!

Jeremiah Bannister Bill Baker was our Pastor for a few years before we became Catholic. Many mutual friends. Cheryl Bosher is a dear friend and I know your mom and she are good friends. We eventually registered at St Mary’s but you may have left by them. Fr Richardson was pastor when we were there and continued TLM for us. Very small world. God bless. I will be in Saugatuck for a familypalooza and will likely drive up to Sacred Heart for Mass then. Maybe I’ll see you there. I thought I remember you said you were in GR. Anyway God bless you and your family.

Jeremiah Bannister Yes we were there in the Y years. How old are you? My boys are 44 and 36

Jeremiah Bannister congratulation on the the new little one. Because I know Cheryl I followed Sami’s Illness and passing. Your profound love for her spills all over everything you do and say. Your reunion with her will be awesome. Hope I can see it.

Please link me to where I can support your work. If it’s Patreon I am denied access here in Honduras. We will be back in States Palm Sunday. If you have an alternative at to donate I can start now.

I was part of "Mother of God" in Maryland. I bet we have similar stories.

@@mdfaithfulcatholics7940 I bet we could co-write a book!

Hi Harriet, I was “part” of that same community between 2001-2009 and came hightailing it back to the TLM. While I wasn’t deeply involved, all of my friends there, excepting a few were born into that community. And maaaan, the stories I have heard 🤦🏽‍♀️

@@harrietsabatini172 i think you guys should

I really wish those who’ve come out of that movement would write! Please do it, share your true testimony. 🙏🏼 Maybe I am being uncharitable, but as a Convert from the protestant religion - all I can see is the demonic elements in this “movement” trying to bastardize the Christian faith. Trying to destroy us bit by bit, compromise by compromise.

@@paleocrat , thanks for answering the comment! Didn't expect that actually. My worry is it seems that Timothy Flanders is insinuating that the Charismatic Renewal (even in the Catholic context) is, by nature, not from the Holy Spirit and that the likes of Fr.Mark Goring is an exception and "God's way of bringing the good out of evil". Did I misread him? I guess my point is that in #1 & 2, the assessment can be more objective and discerning if one understands the "language/jargon" in the Charismatic circles. I can see that both of you are trying to be objective so great job. In #3 & 4, I believe the Charismatics, in a way, are the ones sustaining the Church. What the Novus Ordo and Catechism today lacks, the Charismatic Renewal supplements. Note that unlike Europe and America, there might not even be a single Latin Mass available in Asia (even if there are a few, most Catholics on that region don't have access to it). I will admit, I am a product of Charismatic renewal. But I also love theology. My parish is named after our Lady of Fatima. I am far from holy but I witnessed holy men and women in my community (not perfect, of course, but genuine in their love for Christ). What I want to present as an alternative perspective is, just as there are true and false devotion, I think a true and false Charismatics is also possible. I maybe wrong but with #s1-4 (& maybe other factors), I think we can get closer to the Truth. Btw, thanks for the caution in #3.

The. Catholic Charismatic renewal brings about a renewed thirst for God’s presence in the Holy Mass and the sacraments and reaching out to spread the gospel. In India there are a great many movements loyal to the Church that have their origins in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Jesus Youth international (one of the movements that started in 1980s) states their pillars of faith as Sacraments, Word of God, Fellowship, Evangelization and Option for the poor. These are hardcore Catholic missionary values. The Holy Spirit works when we Catholics evangelize, it’s not enough to just have many degrees in theology, get out in the field and do something with it.

@@jaroldfranco970 thank you for saying several things that need to be said.

@@bpcathcrusader4952 beautifully said. I

The Charismatic movement is just bad theology that comes from a misinterpretation of the Bible. It's 100% Protestant.

paxcoder Medjugorje and its movement, through the spiritual advisors of the seers, was deeply involved with the Charismatic Movement.

paxcoder just before the initial “apparitions,” Tomoslav Vlasic (the laicized priest for demonic and impure sins) was “guided” through a charismaric meeting in Rome involving a charismatic “prophetess”

@@TheMeaningofCatholic Warning: I didn't double-check these things. The alledged prophetess as you say (also a healer) is Sr. Briege McKenna, who works with priests. Indeed, Tomislav Vlašić attended a conference where she and Fr. Emiliano Tardiff (cause for beatification open) were speakers. Sr McKenna alledgedly remembered having had a vision of "healing water" flowing from the see in Međugorje after talking to Tomislav Vlašić. While Fr Emiliano is said to have received a word from Jesus for him saying "Don't worry, I am sending you my mother!'". If this is true, I can't say there is no connection. I should note though, that Tomislav Vlašić has fathered a child prior to this conference. When he later went to Međimurje without consulting with superiors, he continued in disobedience. I am a Međugorje apparitions skeptic, but I cannot deny good fruits of repentance (healing waters?) there. I would be interested to find out how many of the problematic "messages" are from Tomislav Vlašić's short time there, seeing as he seems to have been the one to compile them if not manipulate them. For what it's worth, a somewhat Charismatic Catholic.

@@paleocrat I removed the comment after you got the notification I guess. In the part of that video where you say you are a "catechism studying" Catholic, the image is of the old "Roman Catechism", so I asked why not the "Catechism of the Catholic Church". Though we are to believe the CCC, I must've thought of a (subjective?) reason and removed the comment. But perhaps there's a reason you bring it up, so I reposted the comment[1]. Either way, praise God for what He's doing in your life and His mercy that He shows us. Jesus save us, sinners! [1] kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o8qRnMd109W2ZYE.htmllc=Ugy7Scc8P53NrfGomnJ4AaABAg tip: linking to comments doesn't work except like this, through the URL shortener (youtu.be)

Regarding Sr. Breige Mckenna, she is a devout Catholic nun who has the gifts of the Holy Spirit operating in a special way. She does not claim to be a “prophetess” and she is loyal and submits to her ecclesiastical authorities. Medjugorje does have tremendous fruits when it comes to leading people back to the Holy Mass and the sacraments. Many miracles reported at the confessionals there. I would recommend looking up the videos by Father Leon Pereira, a Dominican priest who is currently stationed in Medjugorje as the chaplain of the English speaking pilgrims. He gives a very balanced perspective without writing off the authentic fruits from the apparitions. As for personal holiness of the seers, it only shows that no one is perfect and we all fall short when tempted, important thing is to rise up and get back to God so He can work to restore us to the image of His Son.

It's a heresy

@@danieldsouza2812 It's Trump trash nonsense.

Maybe you should read your Catholic Bible to learn about Pentecost, the Holy Spirit, tongues, prophecy, healing, etc. Not sure how you think there is Protestant heresy there.

@@danieldsouza2812 What's the heresy?

@@MillionthUsername Thise gifts were given to the apostles to help convert the world and in particular to convert Greece and Rome but those gifts were not eternally given and they werent given to random people but those hand picked by christ himself. Some heretic babbling nonsense in the current year is not the same as the Apostles using gifts for the expansion of the faith at the begining

Link to that?

"These people try to allow their mouths to be taken over by what they think is the Holy Spirit," You mean like Our Lady and the Apostles on Pentecost? I'm curious as to how you think they spoke in tongues on Pentecost without allowing "their mouths to be taken over." Not only are you indicting Our Lady and the Apostles in your false condemnation, but your supposed argument against the gifts of the Spirit is self-evidently irrational and non-Catholic. I would say it's strongly anti-Catholic since you flatly deny the validity of the gifts. Didn't they think that the spirit moving them on Pentecost was "what they think is the Holy Spirit"? You say, "we should never open ourselves up to be controlled by a spirit," so how is one to yield oneself to the Holy Spirit if this is true? And why would you, in the first place, introduce the idea of "controlled by a spirit" when Pentecost is explicitly about the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Church, manifesting in spiritual phenomena such as prophecy and speaking in tongues? Your attacks are self-refuting and your logic is non-existent. "and then they babble without having any idea what they're saying." Look up in your Bible: "No one understands him as he utters mysteries in the Spirit." How do you justify these anti-Catholic rants while supposedly claiming to be Catholic? "God uses grace to guide our intellect, not to control our bodies." So God did not "control" the mouths/tongues of the Apostles on Pentecost? So how was it supernatural then? Are you claiming that they already knew the foreign languages and therefore could preach in all these other languages already? Is that the sense of the text or the authentic Catholic understanding of what happened on that day? Also, you are the one using "control" and then arguing against your own concept of what it means, so this is a red herring by definition. The experience is more like a strong prompting of the Spirit, and then the person yields to this prompting and cooperates physically with the Spirit by speaking out. It's not as if it's the equivalent of possession whereby one becomes a puppet. It's more like inspiration and cooperation, but Scripture does say, "As the Spirit gave them utterance." However you want to parse that, it's clear that the Spirit is acting through the person in order to manifest gifts such as prophecy and tongues.

@@MillionthUsername a strong prompting by the Holy Spirit is fine. The Christian has free will and aligns that will with the will of God. A Christian uses their will and intellect to control their speech. At Pentecost the Apostles spoke and were heard in multiple languages, they were in control of what they were saying while being inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I have reached out to his parish to get in contact with him. I hope we can get in touch

The Meaning of Catholic wow, I honestly do not know where to begin with how to comment on all of this. This is my passionate fight, exposing the dangers that can come from the Catholic Charismatic movement’s. I have a KZfaq page and have done several videos on this topic. I know Fr. Mark G personally. You may be interested to speak to me. I have a whole lot to say from years of personal experiences from within the Archdiocese of Detroit. And I am very disappointed with Fr. Mark G. He tries to show how sympathetic he is for the laity with how some clerics can be, by sort of calling them out. But when I went to him about my misconduct experiences with his Companion of the Cross brothers he pretty much blew me off. I feel he needs to stop pointing fingers at other clerics and worry about cleaning his own community up. Not saying he isn’t doing that. But by how he speaks publicly does not match what he’s shown me privately. I know I’m probably going to get a lot of rebukes for that. But this has been my honest experiences. What was my direct connection with the CCs, Fr Mark’s community? I was a lay associate for some years. I was their Detroit lay coordinator. I was also over the prayer ministry part of their prayer gathering nights. I grew up in the Assemblies of God (Pentecostalism). I converted into the Catholic Church in 2010. I stumbled into the TLM on my own, never hearing of it in 2015/2016. I left the Companions due to so much chaos and things just being disordered in 2018. I have experienced being gas lighted in so many different ways in 2018 by clerics. That was such a very hard year. I had slowly started my new parish (ICKSP apostolate) in 2017, since 2018 it’s been my full-time parish now. Now I warn almost daily on my social media about this movement. I look back on all the misconducts I’ve experienced with many priests and now know not one single poor (emotional and spiritual abuses) would have ever happened had they had the formation the ICKSP has (sticking to, “just all things Catholic!”). Fr. John Hardon (a Servant of God) has videos that warms about the Charismatic spirituality. He was in the AoD too. I agree with every single thing Hardon says against it. It was all my experiences. The Fatima Center has a fabulous video on KZfaq about this and they do a great job in breaking down the dangers with “emotionalism.” Many of the Charismatics don’t know boundaries. Now they’re doing conferences with people like Randy Clark (Protestant charismatic) and he does conferences with Benny Hinn. It’s all becoming the same circle. It is causing Catholics to run to these events quicker than the sacraments. Then when you question that they get really angry (“you will know them by their fruits”) and will say “we believe in the sacraments! BUT....it’s not enough...we NEED this...” I argue back, “we either believe the Mass is the greatest prayer on earth or not” and so on. I have read Ascent of Mt. Carmel. I am reading one of the most charismatic saints “St. Philip Neri” and St. Padre Pio and Fulton Sheen lived in the 60s when the Charismatic Renewal hit the Church...and NONE of them expressed their faith in the way the Charismatics today do. Sheen and Pio never wrote about it nor encouraged it and they were alive then. The saints always glean these graces from “all things Catholic!” They always sought to be hidden and rejected the manifestations over and over to be sure it was from the Holy Spirit. And when they discerned it was, after a long time not on the spot in a spontaneous atmosphere, they tried to downplay them, they always tried to not draw attention to themselves, but redirect people directly back to the sacraments and Mary! Mature faith doesn’t need spiritual consolations: “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. (John 20:29).” This movement is getting really dangerous in my diocese. It grieves my heart to watch so many good people being deceived because they just want to be healed and grow deeper in the Lord. Not realizing it comes with a high price spiritually that many will either never see (refuse to admit it) or won’t see for a long time, till they have too many scars and wounds and come clinging back to just trusting the sacraments, living the liturgy out. It ruined so many of my years as a Christian, it ruined many years in my marriage, it ruined my emotional health, it hindered practicing virtues, it caused so much chaos and disordered in me and around me. The EF has been healing all this and helping me to become more sober minded and ordered, Deo gratias. The formation the ICKSP has been sharing with us, has saved my life (saved my faith!). I do not know why we have to feel the need to reinvent the wheel. Just model the saints. And I upset some charismatic friends when I said on my FB when they open a cause for beatification, sainthood...they do not look at these charismatic ways. They look at how humble were you? How modest were you? How often did you run to the sacraments? How often did you teach others to go to the sacraments? Etc. they will not ask if you prayed in tongues, etc (manifested in those charisms). Fr Hardon says, we can be saint without them and even a really great saint without any of this! God bless!

The Meaning of Catholic here’s a video I did after mg poor experiences with the CCs and Encounter Ministries. This is 1 of 3. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jamjibqf1qeRdac.html

@@TheMeaningofCatholic If you do, please be sure to have Fr Ripberger on as well to balance it out.

@@liscampbell3 I am definitely interested in what you have to say! My grandparents - and to some extent my parents - were HEAVILY involved in the Pentecostal/Tongues movement on the Protestant side of things. I ended up converting to Orthodoxy in my adult life but never fell into the “Tongues” movement as my parents were able to see through that and thankfully didn’t raise me with it. I have seen it absolutely destroy lives, and to this day still has hold over several people in my family. It is a tragedy.

If so why did this horror show grow out of evangelical protestantism and not Catholicism? Are you saying the protestants were guided by the holy ghost and us Catholics some how missed it tbh It reeks of the protestant need for emotional affirmation which is necessary because they haven't got sacraments and the sacraments they do have they practice illicitly it's a barren faith which produces such things as liberalism, religious pluralism and people thinking there worshipping god by blabbering nonsense and calling it tongues or waving their arms around in the air. Whatever it is it is NOT Catholic

@@UnrepentantFenian "If so why did this horror show grow out of evangelical protestantism and not Catholicism?" Your use of "horror show" in this context betrays you as an emotional, irrational liar. You should take the advice of another poster here and put yourself on guard against "emotionalism." Now as to your absurd claim that the charismatic gifts come from Protestantism, please read Acts and 1 Cor in your Catholic Bible. "It reeks of the protestant need for emotional affirmation" Another subjective, emotional, and anti-intellectual, anti-Catholic claim. This is not an arguments against the charismatic gifts since they are in Scripture and the Catechism. They are part and parcel of Catholicism. You cannot simply have an emotional outburst and waive their existence away. "Whatever it is it is NOT Catholic" This applies only to you since you are the one seeking to eradicate the charismatic gifts from the Church via irrational babbling and appeals to anti-Catholic emotionalism.

It says “princess” behind the one guy with the pink headphones 😂

And you sound very angry Maria, maybe that’s not your intention, but that comes across super clear. They’re assuming knowledge of the topic so faithful Christians can have a discussion about it. But if you needed a clarification question you could’ve asked that in a charitable way and I’m sure you would have been answered.