If you drop both Bolg and Azog down to fight 5 and reduce their points they're still S tier heroes. It just doesn't feel good having two orcs that are literally higher fight than most elves, Boromir and Aragorn. Boromir and Aragorn are described in the first book as the two best swordsmen in Middle Earth.

The rage that went to Bolg was too much to bear lol😂😅

If my boy Lurtz, an Uruk Hai who pin-cushioned Bozza, and was pretty evenly matched against the Gorn is only Fight 5, none of these orc scrubs should be F6, let alone F7. Particularly when master of battle solves the need to use might to strike up. Justice for Lurtz.

So, I think the reason they made Bolg such a beefcake was because he actually had Azog's role in the book. He didn't feature very heavily throughout the story like Azog does in the movies, but the army was led by Bolg in the book, he was the big bad. Thorin was killed by Bolg's bodyguards, they never even made it to him. It took Beorn to actually punch through and kill him.

So the Witch-king's flail can break Eowyn's shield, her arm, and knock her ass prone, while Azog hits ice and falls in a lake because of his, but Azog deserves the multi-wound flail? How did the Lord of the Nazgûl get shafted like that?! 😭

Late to the party, but awesome video, gents. A few notes. Always bring a war horn with this army if you're playing it competitively. I brought Azog's Legion + Hunters to a 900 pt tournament this past Dec and the war horn was super useful 4/5 games. (Legion=Bolg (L), Gundabad Capt, Goblin Merc Capt. Hunters=Fimbul. I faced terror-causing elves in 3 of those matches, Saruman's Isengard once and Arnor. It not only got me a ton of extra charges, it also saved me a few times when rolling for courage checks, allowing me to save both Might and Will on my heroes. I got 2nd in that tournament, missed tying for 1st by 1 VP.

Just hate us because you ain’t us, legion 4 lyfe! -Jeff

Azog is crazy mental, he and blog is always used by me to justify why Aragorn should be fight 7 when me and my mates discuss it, that and Anduil should be master forged. Great Teir listing as always so thank full I found your channel always waiting apprehensively for the next one!

Who would win: a resurrected champion of the Valar, who took out a balrog before getting a buff and being sent back to middle earth to aid the free people in their quest against the Sauron, from whom the witch king fled twice, and who made all the nazgul basically commit suicide (For few months but still) instead of facing him, or, a tall orc boi

Azog fortunately doesn't get 2+ to wound heroes with the flail - was faq'd as you said! Worth noting too that if he uses it he becomes F6, even if he strikes up (due to the order of increases and decreases from striking and special strikes) Love these tier list dudes, great to watch while hobbying! ~Stephen

I have been waiting for this one! ❤

Lovely stuff gents! A lovely rant!

To be fair, if Azog and Bolg drop to F6 and F5, as it would make sense to do, both armies would need a major overhaul. They'd basically have no good fight apart from F6, which is so darn common

Love the tier list! As a long time Legion player, I recognize that the two big bois are a little busted...but the list still struggles to win tournaments. If you have the right tools (magic or shooting, mostly) you can take that 200 -odd point Orc and say "have fun walking the rest of the game! Or have fun being transfixed" I've also had Bolg straight up die to 4 warriors of minas tirith which was embarassing... In any case, love the content and appreciate the salt you lads bring!

the fell warg riders are attached, you need seperate warg sculpts for if the rider dies

"Mickey Mouse looking fucker" 😂 hilarious as always, great video! Damn, we have an Azog's Legion Tier List ready to go but guess we're gonna have to delay for another month, don't want to come off as we are copying you guys that much (even though we are 😏) Also... Gundabad troll in s-tier?!? 🤯 -Richard

This is a must watch for me if i paint Azog..the daddy of them all..

'I'm all lost and covered in sugar' 😂😂😂

My biggest gripe with this list is definitely the exclusive rules that should be available to other models. Like the bats chance to knock models prone. How do Fellbeast and Eagles that we see swipe through lines not get this rule?!

I look forward to hearing about your tier list of army bonuses! I agree that Azog and Bolg is wierd powerwise, they dont deserve F7... and lets not talk about the stupid base when on a warg... and their soldiers is so decent that they struggling over who is better than the others! xD

Where can I find the bat rep you mentioned at 48:40? Would love to see it

Bit off topic I know but I'd be keen to get your guys thoughts on the new mesbg made to orders coming soon. That king of men making be looking at being financially irresponsible haha

I think you guys are selling the signal tower short. Yes, its 200 points but here are the key takeaways that make it insanely good. 1. It comes with 7 lieutanants, each worth roughly 25 points (Identical stats to Damrod and you get Heroic March instead of a bow).7 x 25 = 175 points. 2. It comes with a battlefield wide banner - being conservative, a 3" banner is 25 points. 175+25= 200 3. Free Marches battlefield wide. Difficult to accurately cost, so we will say a conservative 10 points. 200+10=210. 4. Fury save - effectively increasing the number of wounds your army has by 17%. If AT 650pts you have 24 orcs the statistical average means you have an effective 4 extra bodies - 30 points. 240pts 5. Battlefield wide harbinger of evil + War horn. Again, difficult to cost, but possibly game deciding vs low courage armies that have broken. 40 points. So, we've gotten 280 points worth of value for only 200 points. This is pretty good by itself, but this is not considering some nasty, nasty repercussions relating to deployment of the tower. IT IS PERMITTED TO BE DEPLOYED ANYWHERE ON THE BOARD AFTER BOARD EDGES HAVE BEEN ANNOUNED. Reconnoiter, they will deploy on your board edge, call a move turn 1 and get 7 models off the board. Hold Ground. That tower will be directly on top of the objective turn 1. The rest of the army has free marches. Sieze the prize- the tower will be in the way of your army and the lieutanants will be on the objective turn 1 and be heroic move/heroic marching back on turn 2. Contest of champions - the tower will be in the direct centre. It will be azog, 7 lieutanants and your Leader on top of the tower. Need I say more? Retrieval - place the tower on top of your relic, fight up the stairs to get through. No chance. These scenarios are all upwards of 75% favored just due to deployment BS. The rest of the scenarios are not unfavorable, they are just not completely broken. You still have to remember at ONLY 650, yes only 650, a list can include 32 models, including Azog on white warg, 7 lieutanants and 24 gundabad orcs. This is 13 points of might, free marches, board wide banner rerolls, board wide harbinger of evil, board wide fury which also procs on Azog and the lieutanants. This army is moving 9" every turn with strength 4 def 6 troops and digusting deployment tricks. Azog will kill your heroes and the lieutanants have the ability to munch your troops if you let them call chained heroic combats. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. TL;DR: the signal tower is completely broken and the minute someone actually brings one it will need an FAQ to say it can only be deployed inside the controlling player's deployment zone.

Azog should have f/v 6 and a whole lot less rules as he shouldn't have the large role he had in the movies. Bolg should remain f/v7 and beefier than his dad since lore wise he was the unkillable orc that took a big ol' Beorn to come in and take him out.

I’m bringing a Signal Tower list to an upcoming 800 point tournament in Texas. Curious to hear your thoughts 👇 Azog fully loaded Signal Tower 23 Gundabad Berserkers -Really wanted to get the value from The Banner of Angmar at a 1/3 chance to negate wounds on 23 of these guys seems quite interesting. 10 with pick and the rest with axes.

You can't magnetise the rider to the warg. They come moulded together....

there are reasons to take the sythce over the club. the club is a monster / hero slayer choice. the scythe is a troop slayer and the scythes increase your kill power on dwarfs and elfs a lot more then the club. and D5 or lower elf or dwarf have to survive on a roll on a 2 and a lower chance to survive on a roll on 1. also how i read how paired scythe gauntlets work is they also have a minor resistance to shatter since that can only target 1 weapon so it shouldn't be able to shatter both gauntlets. and since your most likley be taking azog or bolg the trolls would be better fit to be killing troops rather then heros imo.

Forge world army = D tier

Hunter orcs on Warg are all B oder C tier. They are way to expensiv. Also you "loose" the two things that makes foot Hunter-orcs awesome :the two attacs and the strength 4 as you already get that from the warg(or you do not use the strength of the warg that you are also pay for) Feel sight is nice, but in reality you rarely use it.

For Azog's Hunters, if you include Bolg does Fimbul also gain Morgul Arrows?

"I don't edit these anymore" He's starting to believe!!!!

Just realized something really stupid about the War bats. They have move 12" even when not flying...

I was so close to commenting about your war bat mistake but held back my anger for long enough to hear you call yourself dumb 😅

I hardly see anyone defend azog and bolgs stats. The only ones who try are the people who play them. I would play more tourneys but i just don't want to fight eithwr of them. And the tourneys i have played theres allways 2 people who have one or the other. The hobbit has to many profile that needs revisions.

Dark powers of dol goldur list coming soon?

Still salty that Glorfindel, a multi-Millenia old veteran of countless battles, who killed a BALROG, is the same fight value as couple of CGI orcs

Let's face it, no Orc should be fight 7. We always say 'but that's Glorfindel level...' so maybe Glor needs to be F8.

All the Hobbit stuff looks goofy. Goofy designs in the movies and poorly rendered by GW. Obvious power creep from Armies of LOTR forces.